When does soul life begin in the womb?

[tonychanyt]

For a technical definition of soul, see What happens to your soul when you die?.

When does human soul life begin?

American Standard Version, Genesis 2:

7 And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

It seems that when a fetus receives a (detached) breath from God, it becomes a living soul.

English Standard Version, Ecclesiastes 11:

5 As you do not know the way the spirit comes to the bones in the womb of a woman with child, so you do not know the work of God who makes everything.​

Psalm 139:

13 For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb. 14I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul [H5315 nephesh] knows it very well.​

Ensoulment:

In the time of Aristotle, it was widely believed that the human soul entered the forming body at 40 days (male embryos) or 90 days (female embryos), and quickening was an indication of the presence of a soul. Other religious views are that ensoulment happens at the moment of conception; or when the child takes the first breath after being born;[1][2] at the formation of the nervous system and brain; at the first detectable sign of brain activity; or when the fetus is able to survive independently of the uterus (viability).[3]​

When does consciousness begin?

According to this Scientific American article:

Consciousness requires a sophisticated network of highly interconnected components, nerve cells. Its physical substrate, the thalamo-cortical complex that provides consciousness with its highly elaborate content, begins to be in place between the 24th and 28th week of gestation.​

Elizabeth was pregnant for about half a year, Luke 1:

41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.​

Wiki:

Some early Christians believed that the embryo did not have a soul from conception,[11][18][19][20] and consequently, opinion was divided as to whether or not early abortion was murder or ethically equivalent to murder.[13][17]​

When does the human soul begin?

It seems to be somewhere between the time of conception to the time of full-term birth. If we don't know whether a fetus has soul life, is it okay to terminate it?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

What do we even mean by "soul". How do you want to define it?

"the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual life"

Definition of SOUL

the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual life; the spiritual principle embodied in human beings, all rational and spiritual beings, or the universe; god… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

The Merriam-Webster definition would seem to indicate the moment of fertilization.

 

[tonychanyt]

What do we even mean by "soul". How do you want to define it?

"the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual life"

Definition of SOUL

the immaterial essence, animating principle, or actuating cause of an individual life; the spiritual principle embodied in human beings, all rational and spiritual beings, or the universe; god… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

The Merriam-Webster definition would seem to indicate the moment of fertilization.

Good question.

See my technical definition at What happens to your soul when you die?.

 

[trophy33]

My two cents:

1. Soul is a unique metaphysical connection between an organism's physical body and spirit from God.

2. As the organism becomes more complex, also his soul becomes more complex. So, the soul is not "complete" from the beginning but is in a continuous process of changing/developing.

It may overlap with the Leibnizian concept of elementary monads and God being the super-monad.

From that, the question "when does the soul becomes the human soul" is similar to "when do single grains become a heap".

 

[tonychanyt]

My two cents:

1. Soul is a unique metaphysical connection between an organism's physical body and spirit from God.

2. As the organism becomes more complex, also his soul becomes more complex. So, the soul is not "complete" from the beginning but is in a continuous process of changing/developing.

It may overlap with the Leibnizian concept of elementary monads and God being the super-monad.

From that, the question "when does the soul becomes the human soul" is similar to "when do single grains become a heap".

Agree.

See What happens to your soul when you die? and follow up there

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

As the organism becomes more complex, also his soul becomes more complex.

I think I would go another direction. The development of the organism is guided by the soul and is dependent on the soul rather than having an equal developmental status. The soul, because it is our connection with God, is already fully complex. and yet it still has capacity for unending maturing and, growth and development.

 

[tonychanyt]

The soul, because it is our connection with God, is already fully complex.

verse?

 

[public hermit]

For a technical definition of soul, see What happens to your soul when you die?.

When does human soul life begin?

American Standard Version, Genesis 2:

7 And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

It seems that when a fetus receives a (detached) breath from God, it becomes a living soul.

English Standard Version, Ecclesiastes 11:

5 As you do not know the way the spirit comes to the bones in the womb of a woman with child, so you do not know the work of God who makes everything.​

Psalm 139:

13 For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb. 14I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul [H5315 nephesh] knows it very well.​

Ensoulment:

In the time of Aristotle, it was widely believed that the human soul entered the forming body at 40 days (male embryos) or 90 days (female embryos), and quickening was an indication of the presence of a soul. Other religious views are that ensoulment happens at the moment of conception; or when the child takes the first breath after being born;[1][2] at the formation of the nervous system and brain; at the first detectable sign of brain activity; or when the fetus is able to survive independently of the uterus (viability).[3]​

When does consciousness begin?

According to this Scientific American article:

Consciousness requires a sophisticated network of highly interconnected components, nerve cells. Its physical substrate, the thalamo-cortical complex that provides consciousness with its highly elaborate content, begins to be in place between the 24th and 28th week of gestation.​

Elizabeth was pregnant for about half a year, Luke 1:

41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.​

Wiki:

Some early Christians believed that the embryo did not have a soul from conception,[11][18][19][20] and consequently, opinion was divided as to whether or not early abortion was murder or ethically equivalent to murder.[13][17]​

When does the human soul begin?

It seems to be somewhere between the time of conception to the time of full-term birth. If we don't know whether a fetus has soul life, is it okay to terminate it?

Some early Christians, particularly some connected with the Alexandrian school (e.g. Evagrius Kephalia Gnostika 3.76) saw the time between conception and birth as vegetative (think Aristotle's division of the soul-vegetative, animal, rational). While in the womb, the seed grows and is attached to its source of nourishment, much like a vegetable. Once born, the senses are engaged and the soul becomes. And then through growth the individual logos/nous develops as the human grows to maturity. At that point, because we have the potential for rational choice, we become more like angels or demons, depending. At any rate, the development of the soul is an organic process from seed to mature adult, i.e., from vegetative to animal to rational.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

verse?

Verse? There is not Biblical support for complexity nor lack of complexity of the soul.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

As the organism becomes more complex, also his soul becomes more complex.

There is no verse for that either.

 

[tonychanyt]

Verse? There is not Biblical support for complexity nor lack of complexity of the soul.

Right. Let me try another angle

Let proposition P1 = The soul is already fully complex in the mother's womb.

True?

 

[Clare73]

For a technical definition of soul, see What happens to your soul when you die?.

When does human soul life begin?

American Standard Version, Genesis 2:

7 And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

It seems that when a fetus receives a (detached) breath from God, it becomes a living soul.

English Standard Version, Ecclesiastes 11:

5 As you do not know the way the spirit comes to the bones in the womb of a woman with child, so you do not know the work of God who makes everything.​

Psalm 139:

13 For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb. 14I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul [H5315 nephesh] knows it very well.​

Ensoulment:

In the time of Aristotle, it was widely believed that the human soul entered the forming body at 40 days (male embryos) or 90 days (female embryos), and quickening was an indication of the presence of a soul. Other religious views are that ensoulment happens at the moment of conception; or when the child takes the first breath after being born;[1][2] at the formation of the nervous system and brain; at the first detectable sign of brain activity; or when the fetus is able to survive independently of the uterus (viability).[3]​

When does consciousness begin?

According to this Scientific American article:

Consciousness requires a sophisticated network of highly interconnected components, nerve cells. Its physical substrate, the thalamo-cortical complex that provides consciousness with its highly elaborate content, begins to be in place between the 24th and 28th week of gestation.​

Elizabeth was pregnant for about half a year, Luke 1:

41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.​

Wiki:

Some early Christians believed that the embryo did not have a soul from conception,[11][18][19][20] and consequently, opinion was divided as to whether or not early abortion was murder or ethically equivalent to murder.[13][17]​

When does the human soul begin?

It seems to be somewhere between the time of conception to the time of full-term birth. If we don't know whether a fetus has soul life, is it okay to terminate it?

It's sort of a mute question.

The issue is when does human life begin, and that is at conception, which human life we are forbidden to take, "Thou shalt not murder."

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Right. Let me try another angle

Let proposition P1 = The soul is already fully complex in the mother's womb.

True?

I would say so ... and the body develops accordingly.

If souls is like a blueprint, essense.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

It's sort of a mute question.

The issue is when does human life begin, and that is at conception, which human life we are forbidden to take, "Thou shalt not murder."

I agree with conception. Even the embryo has human entelechy. But there are cases where taking a human life is permitted, even commanded in the Torah.

 

[Clare73]

I agree with conception. Even the embryo has human entelechy. But there are cases where taking a human life is permitted, even commanded in the Torah.

Yes, God commanded killing of their enemies. But enemies are not innocent human life.

 

[tonychanyt]

It's sort of a mute question.

The issue is when does human life begin, and that is at conception, which human life we are forbidden to take, "Thou shalt not murder."

Define conception.

 

[Clare73]

Define conception.

The single-cell living (able to sustain life) zygote resulting from the union of the non-living egg and sperm.

 

[tonychanyt]

The single-cell living (able to sustain life) zygote resulting from the union of the non-living egg and sperm.

You call a mobile sperm non-living?

Does the zygote have a soul?

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

You call a mobile sperm non-living?

Does the zygote have a soul?

Though a sperm is living it is not a human being because it lack half its DNA.

A zygote doe shave a soul that it will eventually grown according to. Of course, that is just my opinion that seems rational to me.

 

[Clare73]

You call a mobile sperm non-living?

In the biological sense that it cannot sustain life on its own.

Does the zygote have a soul?

It's human life, you tell me.