When does soul life begin in the womb?

[tonychanyt]

Where Scripture makes an end to teaching, I make an end to learning.

So what identities do these zygote souls have in heaven?

 

[BNR32FAN]

For a technical definition of soul, see What happens to your soul when you die?.

When does human soul life begin?

American Standard Version, Genesis 2:

7 And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

It seems that when a fetus receives a (detached) breath from God, it becomes a living soul.

English Standard Version, Ecclesiastes 11:

5 As you do not know the way the spirit comes to the bones in the womb of a woman with child, so you do not know the work of God who makes everything.​

Psalm 139:

13 For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb. 14I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul [H5315 nephesh] knows it very well.​

Ensoulment:

In the time of Aristotle, it was widely believed that the human soul entered the forming body at 40 days (male embryos) or 90 days (female embryos), and quickening was an indication of the presence of a soul. Other religious views are that ensoulment happens at the moment of conception; or when the child takes the first breath after being born;[1][2] at the formation of the nervous system and brain; at the first detectable sign of brain activity; or when the fetus is able to survive independently of the uterus (viability).[3]​

When does consciousness begin?

According to this Scientific American article:

Consciousness requires a sophisticated network of highly interconnected components, nerve cells. Its physical substrate, the thalamo-cortical complex that provides consciousness with its highly elaborate content, begins to be in place between the 24th and 28th week of gestation.​

Elizabeth was pregnant for about half a year, Luke 1:

41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.​

Wiki:

Some early Christians believed that the embryo did not have a soul from conception,[11][18][19][20] and consequently, opinion was divided as to whether or not early abortion was murder or ethically equivalent to murder.[13][17]​

When does the human soul begin?

It seems to be somewhere between the time of conception to the time of full-term birth. If we don't know whether a fetus has soul life, is it okay to terminate it?

Important note: In the case of Adam, he was not born in the womb so he could only receive his soul the moment he was formed as an adult. So you shouldn’t use that as evidence that babies who are still in the womb don’t have a soul because Adam was a very different case than the rest of us. He couldn’t receive a soul while still in the womb because he was never in the womb.

 

[tonychanyt]

Important note: In the case of Adam, he was not born in the womb so he could only receive his soul the moment he was formed as an adult. So you shouldn’t use that as evidence that babies who are still in the womb don’t have a soul because Adam was a very different case than the rest of us. He couldn’t receive a soul while still in the womb because he was never in the womb.

Right, so when did soul life start for you?

 

[BNR32FAN]

Right, so when did soul life start for you?

How would I know that? We’d have to at least remember our birth to answer that question.

 

[tonychanyt]

How would I know that? We’d have to at least remember our birth to answer that question.

Did you not assert that all soul lives start when one is a zygote?

 

[St_Worm2]

You call a mobile sperm non-living?

Hello Tony, the cells in our body, and even plants for that matter, are "alive", but they do not have "life" in them like we do (or even like animals do, for that matter). They are not what the Bible calls, "living souls", in and of themselves, that is. At least these are my thoughts on the topic to date

Does the zygote have a soul?

Yes, I believe so. I'm not big on the use of either poetic and/or narrative text as the basis for a belief, but how could the following be true of something that does not have a soul?

Psalm 51​

5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time that my mother conceived me.​

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - here's a short/interesting article concerning some of this.

Plants grow and reproduce, and many scientists consider plants “alive” in the biological sense.​

​

However, according to the Word of God, there is a significant difference between plant “life,” on the one hand, and animal and human life, on the other hand. Throughout the Bible, the Hebrew words nephesh chayyâh are used to describe human and animal life (e.g., GENESIS 1:20–21, 24, 30; 27). When referring to mankind, nephesh chayyâh means “living soul” or “soulish creature,” and when it refers to animals, it means “living creature.” However, these words are never applied to plant life. There is a plain distinction.​

​

God created all of the original plant kinds on Day 3 of Creation Week (GENESIS 1:11). As you walk through the exhibits that feature different types of vegetation, look for plant features that are beneficial to humans. Although their medicinal properties would not have been needed before the Fall, plants were the only source of food for Adam and Eve while they were in the Garden of Eden (GENESIS 1:29–30).​

​

~Are Plants “Alive”? ​

~Do Plants and Leaves Die?​

.

 

[Divide]

For a technical definition of soul, see What happens to your soul when you die?.

When does human soul life begin?

American Standard Version, Genesis 2:

7 And Jehovah God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.​

It seems that when a fetus receives a (detached) breath from God, it becomes a living soul.

English Standard Version, Ecclesiastes 11:

5 As you do not know the way the spirit comes to the bones in the womb of a woman with child, so you do not know the work of God who makes everything.​

Psalm 139:

13 For you formed my inward parts; you knitted me together in my mother’s womb. 14I praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made. Wonderful are your works; my soul [H5315 nephesh] knows it very well.​

Ensoulment:

In the time of Aristotle, it was widely believed that the human soul entered the forming body at 40 days (male embryos) or 90 days (female embryos), and quickening was an indication of the presence of a soul. Other religious views are that ensoulment happens at the moment of conception; or when the child takes the first breath after being born;[1][2] at the formation of the nervous system and brain; at the first detectable sign of brain activity; or when the fetus is able to survive independently of the uterus (viability).[3]​

When does consciousness begin?

According to this Scientific American article:

Consciousness requires a sophisticated network of highly interconnected components, nerve cells. Its physical substrate, the thalamo-cortical complex that provides consciousness with its highly elaborate content, begins to be in place between the 24th and 28th week of gestation.​

Elizabeth was pregnant for about half a year, Luke 1:

41 When Elizabeth heard Mary’s greeting, the baby leaped in her womb, and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.​

Wiki:

Some early Christians believed that the embryo did not have a soul from conception,[11][18][19][20] and consequently, opinion was divided as to whether or not early abortion was murder or ethically equivalent to murder.[13][17]​

When does the human soul begin?

It seems to be somewhere between the time of conception to the time of full-term birth. If we don't know whether a fetus has soul life, is it okay to terminate it?

I think it is highly probable that our soul was alive in Heaven before we were conceived in the womb on earth.


Let me shift gears for a second and say this. We all know that the Lord does not force Himself on anyone, but desires us to make a free will choice to come to Him and follow Him, right?

We also know that God makes all things to work for good for those who love God, right?

We also know that before we was in the womb that He knew us, right?

What kind of good can be made out of a cursed and fallen world that has been damaged by sin? A Training ground. May as well call it the University of Brotherly Love according to the first two most important commandments. So essentially, God has turned the earth into a school of hard knocks! And we are to Love them anyway! I digress.

So if God don't force Himself ontp anyone, and He knew us before we were in the womb...So I would bet money that we were with the Lord before being conceived and probably got to choose our birth parents...or in the very least we at least agreed to be born on earth as a human.

So our consciousness was before the womb. Babies are probably conscious at the moment of conception on some level. Because our spirit would have entered our body then and if we were conscious enough to agree being born on earth with Jesus then there is consciousness and life. No matter if a second (carnal) consciousness is added later.

We asked for this. Next time, I don't want to sign up so fast, lol. I'll trust God in whatever He wants.

 

[St_Worm2]

I think it is highly probable that our soul was alive in Heaven before we were conceived in the womb on earth.

Hello Divide, that would not be true in the case of Adam (or of us) .. e.g. Genesis 2:7 cf Job 38:1-7; Psalm 139:13-14. The Mormons teach the idea of the eternity of the soul and a "soul bank", prior to an earthly existence (that each soul is from everlasting, just like God is), but the whole of the historic/orthodox Christian Church (meaning Roman Catholic, Orthodox and Protestant) teaches that the pre-existence of our souls is heretical.

The Bible tells us that all of us who are or who will be part of God's family by adoption are loved by Him from everlasting .. e.g. Jeremiah 31:3, but His knowing us and loving us from everlasting does not in any way mean that we existed outside of His foreknowledge of us.

I wanted to make another point, but I need to run.

God bless you!!

--David

 

[tonychanyt]

Hello Tony, the cells in our body, and even plants for that matter, are "alive", but they do not have "life" in them like we do (or even like animals do, for that matter). They are not what the Bible calls, "living souls", in and of themselves, that is. At least these are my thoughts on the topic to date


Yes, I believe so. I'm not big on the use of either poetic and/or narrative text as the basis for a belief, but how could the following be true of something that does not have a soul?

Psalm 51​

5 Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time that my mother conceived me.​

God bless you!!

--David
p.s. - here's a short/interesting article concerning some of this.

Plants grow and reproduce, and many scientists consider plants “alive” in the biological sense.​

​

However, according to the Word of God, there is a significant difference between plant “life,” on the one hand, and animal and human life, on the other hand. Throughout the Bible, the Hebrew words nephesh chayyâh are used to describe human and animal life (e.g., GENESIS 1:20–21, 24, 30; 27). When referring to mankind, nephesh chayyâh means “living soul” or “soulish creature,” and when it refers to animals, it means “living creature.” However, these words are never applied to plant life. There is a plain distinction.​

​

God created all of the original plant kinds on Day 3 of Creation Week (GENESIS 1:11). As you walk through the exhibits that feature different types of vegetation, look for plant features that are beneficial to humans. Although their medicinal properties would not have been needed before the Fall, plants were the only source of food for Adam and Eve while they were in the Garden of Eden (GENESIS 1:29–30).​

​

~Are Plants “Alive”? ​

~Do Plants and Leaves Die?​

.

When did you receive your soul?

 

[St_Worm2]

Hmmm, I think I must have forgotten It wasn’t prior to conception though.

 

[tonychanyt]

Hmmm, I think I must have forgotten It wasn’t prior to conception though.

When you were a zygote soul, what were you capable of doing besides forgetting?

 

[St_Worm2]

That must be the extent of it, forgetting, that is .. edit: I think that I was capable of dividing and growing, but again, I forget.

What is a zygote “soul”?

 

[Clare73]

So what identities do these zygote souls have in heaven?

I find nothing in Scripture regarding zygote souls, therefore, I have no Biblical answer to your question.

 

[St_Worm2]

Perhaps it is best to consider that how we came into existence (the details of it all, that is, particularly spirit/soul), is best left as the mystery that it is.

Deuteronomy 29​

29 The secret things belong to the LORD our God, but the things revealed belong to us and to our sons forever, that we may observe all the words of this law. ​

--David

Psalm 139​

13 You formed my inward parts; ​

You wove me in my mother’s womb. ​

14 I will give thanks to You, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made; ​

Wonderful are Your works, ​

And my soul knows it very well. ​

15 My frame was not hidden from You, ​

When I was made in secret, ​

And skillfully wrought in the depths of the earth; ​

16 Your eyes have seen my unformed substance; ​

And in Your book were all written ​

The days that were ordained for me, ​

When as yet there was not one of them. ​

.