Chief end of man

[bling]

If all individuals are innocent at birth, do they go to heaven if they perish prior to committing any sin? Who teaches them to sin? I hope it is not their parents. My parents, assuredly never taught me to sin. I seemed to have a natural knack for it.

We really do not have scripture concerning what happens to babies who die. Being innocent they should just go on to heaven, but would not have obtained Godly type Love, but would have a strong child for wonderful parent type Love. Without Godly type Love they would have to be constantly protected and preserved by those with Godly type Love, which I would Love to do for eternity.

 

[Hammster]

You are not "rewarded" for humbly accepting, you obtain the gift by accepting. Texas does not reward me a billion dollars, because I am humbly willing to accept the billion-dollar lottery, but if I won the lottery, I would need to accept the money.
There is no "value" over others, in being willing to accept the reward which everyone has "won" and just needs to accept, but it is a choice, and most will choose to continue to pursue the perceived pleasures of sin.

The lottery is a reward. You pay to win, and if you win, you are rewarded with money.

 

[Hammster]

What are the differences between being righteous and being justified?

Nothing. Same root word.

 

[bling]

Good Day, Bling

Not so sure an appeal to the concise is a useful or profitable thing.

Tit 1:16 To the pure, all things are pure, but to the defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure; but both their minds and their consciences are defiled.
They profess to know God, but they deny him by their works. They are detestable, disobedient, unfit for any good work.

I would remind you that nothing good comes from the heart of man:

Matt 15:17 Do you not see that whatever goes into the mouth passes into the stomach and is expelled? But what comes out of the mouth proceeds from the heart, and this defiles a person. For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a person. But to eat with unwashed hands does not defile anyone.”

Not much hope in that combination.... But God.

In Him,

Bill

Bill not sure what you are trying to proof but bad people do bad stuff. When Paul or Christ talk about what nonbelievers do it does not mean every person who has or has not had the opportunity to become a believer will all the time and every person will think and do these bad things all the time, but nonbelievers in general will be doing bad stuff.

 

[bling]

The lottery is a reward. You pay to win, and if you win, you are rewarded with money.

You miss the point.
Does a person not even entering the lottery yet willing to pick up (accept) the lottery win: earn the lottery win, make them worthy of the win, earn at least some of the win, or make them deserve to win?
God is not rewarding our willingness to humbly accept His salvation, with salvation. The willingness to accept a charitable gift as pure undeserved charity, does not make us worthy of the gift, deserving of the gift, nor earn the gift.
The charitable undeserved gift is available to all mature adult humans, but most just do not want to humble themselves to accept pure charity or they are willing to take the punishment they fully deserve.

 

[bling]

Nothing. Same root word.

That does not make them interchangeable.

 

[ViaCrucis]

That does not make them interchangeable.

English, due to the particular historical circumstances of its development, often has two words for the same thing, Anglo-Saxon and Norman French respectively. Oftentimes this shows up in class distinctions. So we raise cows, but eat beef, as an example.

Righteousness and justice are synonyms, the former is Germanic and the latter is Latin. We have courts of justice, rather than courts of righteousness, for the same reason that we raise cows but eat beef--Norman French was the language of the rulers after the Norman Conquest.

To be justified is to be made right, to be righteous.

In the Greek of the New Testament there's just one word (and variations of that one word), and it is variously translated as righteousness or justice.

This is why in Romans 1:17 we read "by it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, just as it is written, 'The just shall live by faith'" It would mean the same thing if we translated it as "the justice of God is revealed from faith to faith, just as it is written, 'The righteous shall live by faith'".

In Greek:

δικαιοσύνη γὰρ θεοῦ ἐν αὐτῷ ἀποκαλύπτεται ἐκ πίστεως εἰς πίστιν καθὼς γέγραπται Ὁ δὲ δίκαιος ἐκ πίστεως ζήσεται

dikaiosyne and dikaios--justice and just or righteousness and righteous--respectively,

What is the righteousness or justice of God revealed in the Gospel? The righteousness or justice by which one is reckoned, declared, righteous/just by faith. It is not the act of believing certain things that renders one righteous, it is the righteousness of God in the Gospel, now given to another through faith, that the other is now righteous.


Romans 5:18b

καὶ δι ἑνὸς δικαιώματος εἰς πάντας ἀνθρώπους εἰς δικαίωσιν ζωῆς
even by the one righteousness has come justification of life unto all men

All condemned by decree because of the one disobedience; and also all justified by decree by the one righteousness.

All condemned and made unrighteous by Adam's disobedience and sin;
All justified and made righteous by Christ's righteous obedience.

How does one receive this? By faith alone.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[Hammster]

You miss the point.
Does a person not even entering the lottery yet willing to pick up (accept) the lottery win: earn the lottery win, make them worthy of the win, earn at least some of the win, or make them deserve to win?
God is not rewarding our willingness to humbly accept His salvation, with salvation. The willingness to accept a charitable gift as pure undeserved charity, does not make us worthy of the gift, deserving of the gift, nor earn the gift.
The charitable undeserved gift is available to all mature adult humans, but most just do not want to humble themselves to accept pure charity or they are willing to take the punishment they fully deserve.

Charity is undeserved. So humility isn’t required. If it is, then charity becomes merit.

 

[Hammster]

That does not make them interchangeable.

It actually does. To be justified is to be made righteous.

 

[bling]

English, due to the particular historical circumstances of its development, often has two words for the same thing, Anglo-Saxon and Norman French respectively. Oftentimes this shows up in class distinctions. So we raise cows, but eat beef, as an example.

Righteousness and justice are synonyms, the former is Germanic and the latter is Latin. We have courts of justice, rather than courts of righteousness, for the same reason that we raise cows but eat beef--Norman French was the language of the rulers after the Norman Conquest.

To be justified is to be made right, to be righteous.

In the Greek of the New Testament there's just one word (and variations of that one word), and it is variously translated as righteousness or justice.

This is why in Romans 1:17 we read "by it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith, just as it is written, 'The just shall live by faith'" It would mean the same thing if we translated it as "the justice of God is revealed from faith to faith, just as it is written, 'The righteous shall live by faith'".

In Greek:

δικαιοσύνη γὰρ θεοῦ ἐν αὐτῷ ἀποκαλύπτεται ἐκ πίστεως εἰς πίστιν καθὼς γέγραπται Ὁ δὲ δίκαιος ἐκ πίστεως ζήσεται

dikaiosyne and dikaios--justice and just or righteousness and righteous--respectively,

What is the righteousness or justice of God revealed in the Gospel? The righteousness or justice by which one is reckoned, declared, righteous/just by faith. It is not the act of believing certain things that renders one righteous, it is the righteousness of God in the Gospel, now given to another through faith, that the other is now righteous.


Romans 5:18b

καὶ δι ἑνὸς δικαιώματος εἰς πάντας ἀνθρώπους εἰς δικαίωσιν ζωῆς
even by the one righteousness has come justification of life unto all men

All condemned by decree because of the one disobedience; and also all justified by decree by the one righteousness.

All condemned and made unrighteous by Adam's disobedience and sin;
All justified and made righteous by Christ's righteous obedience.

How does one receive this? By faith alone.

-CryptoLutheran

Thank you for taking the time to do this.
Context is always important to the translation, like we have courts of justice and not courts of righteousness.
We are talking about salvation justification or righteousness, so if you are justified before God you are also righteous and if you are talking about Godly type righteousness you would be justified.

What I do not understand is why humbly accept pure undeserved forgiveness as pure charity does not make one: Loving with a Godly type Love (Luke 7) and thus make you justified and righteous? It takes faith to humbly accept God's forgiveness, so faith is needed.

A lot is made of:

2 Corinthians 5:21 God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

When the alternative translation is much more likely:
2 Corinthians 5:21 God made him who had no sin a sin offering, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

 

[bling]

Charity is undeserved. So humility isn’t required. If it is, then charity becomes merit.

Not sure what you are saying here?
If a person is not humbly accepting charity, did they really receive the charity as charity?

 

[bling]

It actually does. To be justified is to be made righteous.

We have courts of justice and not courts of righteousness.

 

[Hammster]

Not sure what you are saying here?
If a person is not humbly accepting charity, did they really receive the charity as charity?

You compared it to the lottery. That’s not charity.

 

[Hammster]

We have courts of justice and not courts of righteousness.

And that’s not what we are talking about.

 

[bling]

You compared it to the lottery. That’s not charity.

You are not "rewarded" for humbly accepting, you obtain the gift by accepting.

God is not rewarding our willingness to humbly accept His salvation, with salvation. The willingness to accept a charitable gift as pure undeserved charity, does not make us worthy of the gift, deserving of the gift, nor earn the gift.
The charitable undeserved gift is available to all mature adult humans, but most just do not want to humble themselves to accept pure charity or they are willing to take the punishment they fully deserve.

 

[bling]

And that’s not what we are talking about.

OK so read above.

 

[Hammster]

You are not "rewarded" for humbly accepting, you obtain the gift by accepting.

God is not rewarding our willingness to humbly accept His salvation, with salvation. The willingness to accept a charitable gift as pure undeserved charity, does not make us worthy of the gift, deserving of the gift, nor earn the gift.
The charitable undeserved gift is available to all mature adult humans, but most just do not want to humble themselves to accept pure charity or they are willing to take the punishment they fully deserve.

You compared it to the lottery. Are you changing this?

 

[Hammster]

OK so read above.

That has nothing to do with justification and righteousness being the same thing.

 

[bling]

You compared it to the lottery. Are you changing this?

The Lottery analogy seems to difficult for you so I just dropped the analogy.

 

[bling]

That has nothing to do with justification and righteousness being the same thing.

The Greek word for justification is the same Greek word for righteousness, so the context determines which one we should use. The Hebrew uses the same root word for both, but the Hebrew translators mostly translated the actual Hebrew words differently, mostly "righteous".

When it comes to salvation you are both righteous and justified in the English definition of these words.