Genesis 6:1-4, Sons of God, Giants in the earth, (Nephilim) are not angles who had relations with daughters of men!

[Bible Highlighter]

Yes, because when we pray we pray to the Father in Jesus name because Jesus is the name that has been given all authority.

What are you talking about "usurping the Father's authority"? He was given authority to do the things He did on earth. He did not act on His own authority even though, being God, He had the authority within Himself to do the miracles, forgive sins, turn water to wine etc.

So you are admitting that Jesus did miracles as a part of His being God (second person of the Godhead or Trinity) during His earthly ministry? Then why are you saying that He did everything here on Earth as a man?

Huh? You still don't seem to be getting it. Jesus did everything here on Earth as a man.

No, He didn’t. Jesus is the GOD man. Jesus acted as both God and man. Yes, He submitted to God the Father. Nobody here is denying that. But Jesus having His own power and working by His own power (Under God the Father’s authority) is not in conflict with Him being a man. You have the idea in your mind that Jesus had to be only a man and He could not act as God in order for Him to be our substitutes on the cross. But I have presented Scripture that clearly shows that Jesus did use His own power as the second person of the Trinity (which is naturally still under the authority or permission of God the Father).

He is not asking this cup to pass from Him as God. Jesus wasn't a robot programmed with the Father's will or a puppet, He was like us in every way except without sin. He had His own volition.

This defeats your previous statement that said that He said everything by authority of God the Father according to John 14:10. So obviously if He could speak His own words, He could also do His own works, too. This would not be in conflict with the Father’s authority. Nor would it undo Christ dying for our sins in our place, either.

You seem to keep confusing His humanity with His Deity and I suspect this is because you think Jesus acted as God on His own authority during the incarnation rather than as a man under the authority of God the Father.

Nope. I believe Jesus can act on His own power and ability because Scripture says that AND He did so with God the Father’s authority or permission. I believe they are one. I believe the Father is in the Son, and the Son is in the Father. So the Father is in agreement on what Jesus did. Jesus said He always did what pleased the Father. Also, John 14:13-14 ultimately proves my case, as well. It is saying that when Jesus does a miracle by answering prayer, the Father is glorified. So Jesus was not powerless to do anything as God as you are incorrectly teaching.

First. How many people are you sitting next to as they post on this forum to know what they are doing in order to have this experience?

I have been on Christian forums a long time.
I have 40,000 posts here at CF, and more at other forums.
I posted for almost 12 years on Christian forums talking on a wide variety of topics.
So I know what Christians can be like and I know how many of them think.

But some things in life you don’t even have to know by experience. You can just logically deduce that most Christians on forums generally do not click on the quoted links to see who is talking.

Second. You click the link to review the conversation because we are not talking in real time and sometimes one needs to refresh their memory. I do it quite often. I didn't need to post a quote from someone else because I was quoting you. If you had followed a simple instruction like clicking the link instead of turning it into "War and Peace", you would have had clarity.

I disagree with your approach. You posted a quote from somebody else and it was as if you were talking without any clarification. Try that with other people and see how they react. Would the reactions by others be positive or negative? We as believers should seek to do all things to lead other believers to never misunderstand what we are saying. But you are free to do as you wish.

Three. If Biblelesson is worth her salt, she won't much care if people get it wrong. I get called he/him often on this forum, it has no bearing on the message of truth.

The point is that you made a mistake, and this means you are not always right.

Fourth. The correct grammar is "she is a female" not "they are a female" so this is another thing you have gotten wrong here, my friend.

Thank you for the grammar tip. Most people make grammar mistakes. It’s actually pretty common.
I need to type more using my MAC that has Grammarly installed.
But grammar education and knowing God’s Word are two different things.
One is man’s knowledge and the other is taught by the Spirit.

Granted, the learning curve on our end is not always perfect, but if we keep at being diligent in studying and obeying God’s Word, we will live a faith that is pleasing to God. More importantly, we must be open to being corrected by His Word. The more we will grow in the faith, and live a life that glorifies Christ (Whereby it is less of us and more of Him) the more God’s love shines in this dark and dying world.

I believe why most do not like the idea of Jesus performing miracles as God during His earthly ministry (by the Scriptures that I posted that they do not believe plainly at face value) because they want to make Jesus more on their level so they can relate to Him. You even got Christians today endorsing pictures of Jesus as if He was a white European (When He was not). Jesus is God, and He was even worshiped as God during His earthly ministry. Granted, you probably believe that Jesus was worshiped but the point here is that He was worshiped because He is God fully and His performing his own miracles as God was naturally a part of that.

The list of verses I provided clearly can be read as Jesus having His own power. One has to do a workaround to explain them away.
I am not looking to do that. I just want to read, believe, and obey God’s Word. I am not out to impress a Pastor, or a church, or some denomination. I am out to impress the Lord God who made the Heavens and the Earth and all that is in it.

You have a nice day.

May God’s love shine upon you.

 

[sawdust]

So you are admitting that Jesus did miracles as a part of His being God (second person of the Godhead or Trinity) during His earthly ministry? Then why are you saying that He did everything here on Earth as a man?


No, He didn’t. Jesus is the GOD man. Jesus acted as both God and man. Yes, He submitted to God the Father. Nobody here is denying that. But Jesus having His own power and working by His own power (Under God the Father’s authority) is not in conflict with Him being a man. You have the idea in your mind that Jesus had to be only a man and He could not act as God in order for Him to be our substitutes on the cross. But I have presented Scripture that clearly shows that Jesus did use His own power as the second person of the Trinity (which is naturally still under the authority or permission of God the Father).



This defeats your previous statement that said that He said everything by authority of God the Father according to John 14:10. So obviously if He could speak His own words, He could also do His own works, too. This would not be in conflict with the Father’s authority. Nor would it undo Christ dying for our sins in our place, either.



Nope. I believe Jesus can act on His own power and ability because Scripture says that AND He did so with God the Father’s authority or permission. I believe they are one. I believe the Father is in the Son, and the Son is in the Father. So the Father is in agreement on what Jesus did. Jesus said He always did what pleased the Father. Also, John 14:13-14 ultimately proves my case, as well. It is saying that when Jesus does a miracle by answering prayer, the Father is glorified. So Jesus was not powerless to do anything as God as you are incorrectly teaching.

Based on your response here it appears you do not understand the concept that I am trying to get across. All I can say is you should take a lesson from the Roman Centurion who understood what it was to be under authority and from where his source of power to command came. (Luke 7:1-9)

Did Jesus stop being God in the Incarnation? No.
Did Jesus have the power of God within Himself? Yes, otherwise the temptation to turn stones into bread would have made no sense. We (humans) do not have that innate power.
Did Jesus ever use that power to accomplish the Father's will? No. He relied solely on the Father and Holy Spirit as the source of His power, not Himself. If he had done so, (used His own power as God), He would no longer have acted solely as a man on Earth and would have been disqualified to go to the Cross on our behalf.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Based on your response here it appears you do not understand the concept that I am trying to get across. All I can say is you should take a lesson from the Roman Centurion who understood what it was to be under authority and from where his source of power to command came. (Luke 7:1-9).

First, nowhere does this passage teach that Jesus obeying the Father’s authority Is the same as the Roman Centurion example. You have to make assumptions in the text to make that so.

Second, again, you are not believing the verses plainly in post #195 that teach that Jesus did function as God during His earthly ministry. Jesus being able to function as God does not conflict with Him obeying the Father and being under authority to Him. As I said before, which has escaped your capacity of understanding, John 14:13-14 explains how Jesus is able to answer prayer (like possibly healing somebody) and yet the Father is glorified. This means that there is no conflict between Him operating as God because they are one.

Did Jesus stop being God in the Incarnation? No.
Did Jesus have the power of God within Himself? Yes, otherwise the temptation to turn stones into bread would have made no sense. We (humans) do not have that innate power.

Right, I know you believe that. But it is still wrong to speak against the verses in the Bible that plainly teach Jesus functioned as God of His own power and ability as the Son of God.

Did Jesus ever use that power to accomplish the Father's will? No.

Not true. Let the reader here check out post #195 to see the verses for themselves.
Your ignoring these verses or re-interpreting them to say something else beyond what they plainly say does not change the normal reading of God’s Word.

He relied solely on the Father and Holy Spirit as the source of His power, not Himself. If he had done so, (used His own power as God), He would no longer have acted solely as a man on Earth and would have been disqualified to go to the Cross on our behalf.

No He didn’t. See post #195. We are done here unless you can sufficiently explain those verses but you have not been able to even explain John 14:13-14. You acted like you believed that passage is true and yet you turned around and spoke against it In the same post.

 

[biblelesson]

First, nowhere does this passage teach that Jesus obeying the Father’s authority Is the same as the Roman Centurion example. You have to make assumptions in the text to make that so.

Second, again, you are not believing the verses plainly in post #195 that teach that Jesus did function as God during His earthly ministry. Jesus being able to function as God does not conflict with Him obeying the Father and being under authority to Him. As I said before, which has escaped your capacity of understanding, John 14:13-14 explains how Jesus is able to answer prayer (like possibly healing somebody) and yet the Father is glorified. This means that there is no conflict between Him operating as God because they are one.

Jesus could not have operated as God on earth because then he could not have died for man’s sin. He had to live and die as a man to save man. Jesus’s operated in power by the Holy Spirit. He received power at His baptism, Matthew 3:16 KJV. Everything He did was given to Him. He used none of His own power. To pray in the name of Jesus then was the power God gave to Jesus name, as everything He did and the power to heal given to his disciples was bestowed upon him by the Father.

If this is not true, then why after His resurrection did He say to His disciples, “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.”Matthew 28:18 KJV. If Jesus was using any of His Godly power on earth, then why say “all power” was given to Him.

The purpose of Jesus’s incarceration was to redeem man. In order to do that He had to come in the likeness of sinful man. He could possessed no more power than that of man, however, through the Holy Spirit, God bestowed power on Jesus for Jesus to accomplish His miracles, and healings, which glorified God, not Jesus. Jesus even said “why call thou me good, there is none good but one, that is God, Mark 10:18 KJV.

We as believers are given the same power to operate by that Jesus operated by; through the Spirit. So we can say Jesus operated by the same Spirit we are given today. So does that make us God if we operate in power like Jesus? No! Power has been bestowed upon us, 2 Timothy 1:7 KJV.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus could not have operated as God on earth because then he could not have died for man’s sin. He had to live and die as a man to save man. Jesus’s operated in power by the Holy Spirit. He received power at His baptism, Matthew 3:16 KJV. Everything He did was given to Him. He used none of His own power. To pray in the name of Jesus then was the power God gave to Jesus name, as everything He did and the power to heal given to his disciples was bestowed upon him by the Father.

If this is not true, then why after His resurrection did He say to His disciples, “All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.”Matthew 28:18 KJV. If Jesus was using any of His Godly power on earth, then why say “all power” was given to Him.

The purpose of Jesus’s incarceration was to redeem man. In order to do that He had to come in the likeness of sinful man. He could possessed no more power than that of man, however, through the Holy Spirit, God bestowed power on Jesus for Jesus to accomplish His miracles, and healings, which glorified God, not Jesus. Jesus even said “why call thou me good, there is none good but one, that is God, Mark 10:18 KJV.

We as believers are given the same power to operate by that Jesus operated by; through the Spirit. So we can say Jesus operated by the same Spirit we are given today. So does that make us God if we operate in power like Jesus? No! Power has been bestowed upon us, 2 Timothy 1:7 KJV.

Please carefully go back and read very very slowly the verses in post #195. If you don’t believe those verses I cannot help you.

 

[biblelesson]

I was not aware that angler fish tried that too.

Funny! I misspelled angels.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Funny! I misspelled angels.

Yes, I noticed the misspelling in your thread title before. You can easily change it in seconds.

#1. Go to your first post in this thread.
#2. You will notice at the top of your first post there are three dots at the righthand side.
#3. Click on these three dots and a drop down menu will appear giving you two options (edit thread, create poll).
#4. Choose on the option called, “edit thread” from the drop down menu.
#5. You will see a pop-up box appear that has the word “Title” and you will see the name of your thread in a box.
#6. You can edit the thread title to another name or correct any misspelling.
#7. Then click “save” and viola, your thread title is changed to your liking.

I hope this helps, and may God bless you.

 

[biblelesson]

To all:

Jesus functioned as God during His earthly ministry:

#1. Jesus had the power to forgive sins and give eternal life (Mark 2:7) (Luke 7:44-50) (John 14:6). Only God can absolve sins and give eternal life (Also see “Side Note” below).​

#2. Jesus Christ said wherever two or three are gathered in my name, there I am among them (Matthew 18:20). This was said to the people he was around and not to just us today. So Jesus is Omnipresent just as God is.​

#3. Jesus can make His home or abode inside of us if we keep His commandments (John 14:15). This is a part of His divine power and or abilities as God. Humans born into this world cannot make their homes inside other people when they are adults.​

#4. “This beginning of miracles did Jesus in Cana of Galilee, and manifested forth his glory; and his disciples believed on him.” (John 2:11). This was a direct statement. Meaning, Christ’s miracle at the wedding of Cana manifested His glory. This was his first miracle done by Jesus, and it was a part of His showing forth His deity as God. The apostle John did not say that the Lord Jesus manifested the Holy Spirit’s glory, but His own glory (Also see “Side Note” below).​

#5. ”And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.” (John 14:13-14). This was said by Jesus before the cross, and answering prayers is definitely a divine act of God. Please pay close attention to what Jesus said. He said, “I will do it“ in reference to answering prayer. So if a person prays for a healing in His name, he will do it. He will be the One who will heal them and do it.​

#6. John 5:17 (NKJV) “But Jesus answered them, “My Father has been working until now, and I have been working.” If you were to read a little before verse 17, we learn that this is in context to the Jews being upset because of Christ healing a man on the Sabbath. So Jesus is taking ownership of this healing because He said He has been working (Just as the Father). John 5:19 says, “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”​

Side Note:

To those who believe that Jesus was not able to give eternal life during His earthly ministry, and He was only speaking prophetically of giving life (eternal life) after He was risen: Well, this false belief is easily refuted by John 11:24-26; For in this passage, Jesus stated He was the resurrection and the life, and then He asked if Martha believed this. Jesus did not ask her to wait to believe on Him for eternal life until after the Son of man was risen.

To those who doubt John 2:11 and say that Jesus was working a miracle of the Father only and glorifying only the Father here need to read and believe John 14:13-14. For it says, ”And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. If ye shall ask any thing in my name, I will do it.” (John 14:13-14).

I read your post.

John 5:30 KJV, “I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.”

If Jesus of His own self could do nothing, then whose power did He operate by? The only answer is the Father’s Power.

Jesus was correct to tell Martha He was the resurrection and life. Because He was. He came as a man for that specific reason to offer himself, to offer life to those who believe. Martha believed Christ but still would not have been able to receive eternal life until Jesus died on the cross because she was still a sinner like all men under Adam, the first man. It was not by Jesus words that offered life, it was by the second man Adam, who is Jesus and the shedding of Jesus blood that removed the stain of sin from all men born into Adam.

Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission, Hebrews 9:22 KJV. Remission means cancellation of debt; forgiveness.

We must believe in Christ’s atonement.

Man, to include Martha, could not be forgiven without Jesus dying on the cross to redeem mankind.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I read your post.

John 5:30 KJV, “I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.”

If Jesus of His own self could do nothing, then whose power did He operate by? The only answer is the Father’s Power.

Jesus was correct to tell Martha He was the resurrection and life. Because He was. He came as a man for that specific reason to offer himself, to offer life to those who believe. Martha believed Christ but still would not have been able to receive eternal life until Jesus died on the cross because she was still a sinner like all men under Adam, the first man. It was not by Jesus words that offered life, it was by the second man Adam, who is Jesus and the shedding of Jesus blood that removed the stain of sin from all men born into Adam.

Without the shedding of blood, there is no remission, Hebrews 9:22 KJV. Remission means cancellation of debt; forgiveness.

We must believe in Christ’s atonement.

Man, to include Martha, could not be forgiven without Jesus dying on the cross to redeem mankind.

*Sigh* Why did I think you would not agree before I even read your post?

Sorry, there is no point in having this discussion if you don’t accept what is plainly written.
No matter how well I try to defend the plain reading of God’s Word it will never still be good enough against this false belief that people made up in their minds that Jesus only operated as a man during His earthly ministry. It does not matter how many verses I bring forth. Folks will just try and rationalize or explain them away.

 

[sawdust]

Second, again, you are not believing the verses plainly in post #195 that teach that Jesus did function as God during His earthly ministry.

Your post #195 is such a mishmash of present and future workings of Christ that I simply cannot be bothered responding to it's obvious errors. Life is too short to be wasting time like that.

Believe as you will. The Lord is our judge.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Isaiah 29:11
”And the vision of all is become unto you as the words of a book that is sealed, which men deliver to one that is learned, saying, Read this, I pray thee: and he saith, I cannot; for it is sealed:”

 

[sawdust]

Ephesians 1:17-19
17 that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give to you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of Him, 18 the eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that you may know what is the hope of His calling, what are the riches of the glory of His inheritance in the saints, 19 and what is the exceeding greatness of His power toward us who believe, according to the working of His mighty power

 

[GenemZ]

*Sigh* Why did I think you would not agree before I even read your post?

Sorry, there is no point in having this discussion if you don’t accept what is plainly written.
No matter how well I try to defend the plain reading of God’s Word it will never still be good enough against this false belief that people made up in their minds that Jesus only operated as a man during His earthly ministry. It does not matter how many verses I bring forth. Folks will just try and rationalize or explain them away.

Jesus was the Second Adam. He came to undo what the First Adam had brought upon us. He had to become as a man in every way (without sin) to qualify to die as our substitute on the Cross!

Though He was God before the Incarnation (Philippians 2:6-8) - having two natures - both Deity and Soul, it was by means of his soul
that he was able to make himself function as a man. Yet? Function as a man who knew where He had come from and was to return to.

In that manner, Jesus could speak in terms of God as a prophet would speak, as if he were God's mouth.

For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me ​

from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you." Acts 3:22​

Took me years to find this out. In the OT there are passages revealing two natures of specifically the Lord God of Israel!
Jehovah and Soul.

God is spirit. God not soul (John 4:23-24) = That means there were two different natures in union within the pre-incarnate Lord Jehovah of Israel.

"And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to serve Jehovah,
so that his soul became impatient because of the trouble of Israel. Judges 10:16

"Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, and anyone
loving violence his soul certainly hates." Ps 11:5​

​

'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because of the new. Moreover, I will ​

make My dwelling among you, and My soul will not reject you. 'I will also walk among ​

you and be your God, and you shall be My people." Lev 26:10-12​

​

There is so much more to be learned and blessedly understood.

grace and peace ..................

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus was the Second Adam. He came to undo what the First Adam had brought upon us.

The Bible teaches we should speak with what is written.

“We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;” (2 Corinthians 4:13).

While the term “Second Adam” may not be in accurate, I prefer the more Scriptural name in that Jesus is called the “last Adam.”

”And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.“ (1 Corinthians 15:45).

Jesus also was manifest so as to destroy the works of the devil, as well (1 John 3:8). Meaning, Jesus came to destroy sin in believer’s lives. Jesus can set the captives free and can help believers to overcome sin in this life. For God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). Paul says, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God (2 Corinthians 7:1).

He had to become as a man in every way (without sin) to qualify to die as our substitute on the Cross!

Actually, only a human body was needed to accomplish mankind’s redemption on the cross, and not a human soul.

1 Peter 2:24
”Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins,
should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.”

Notice. That Peter says about Jesus in that He… “bare our sins in his body“ and it does not mention anything about how He did this with his soul.

Granted, a soul (i.e., the Word - second person of the Trinity) was needed to bring to life the dead body of Jesus (Which is a part of the resurrection and mankind’s salvation).

Though He was God before the Incarnation (Philippians 2:6-8) - having two natures - both Deity and Soul, it was by means of his soul
that he was able to make himself function as a man. Yet? Function as a man who knew where He had come from and was to return to.

In that manner, Jesus could speak in terms of God as a prophet would speak, as if he were God's mouth.

For Moses said, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a prophet like me ​

from among your own people; you must listen to everything he tells you." Acts 3:22​

I believe the glory that Jesus once shared with the Father before the foundation of the world as mentioned in John 17 was His Omniscience (i.e., to have all knowledge as God).

I say this because the glory of the Lord is tied with knowledge. For Habakkuk says,

"For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea." (Habakkuk 2:14).

And 2 Corinthians says,

"For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." (2 Corinthians 4:6).

I believe Jesus was the One who was in the garden asking, “Where art thou?” when he did not see Adam and Eve (When they hid themselves because of their sin).

Took me years to find this out. In the OT there are passages revealing two natures of specifically the Lord God of Israel!
Jehovah and Soul.

God is spirit. God not soul (John 4:23-24) = That means there were two different natures in union within the pre-incarnate Lord Jehovah of Israel.

Nothing is said in John 4:23-24 in that God does not have a soul.
As I already pointed out before, God the Father has a soul as described in Isaiah 42:1.

Isaiah 42:1
”Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.”

This is the Father talking about Jesus.

Matthew 12:18
”Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.”

So Isaiah 42 is teaching that God the Father has a soul.
Yes, I know you can speculate all you want in that the Father is taking possession of the Son’s soul in order to say this but I get no indication of Scripture that this is so. There is no verse that says that the soul is a unique thing to humans only and that God the Father can take possession of the Son’s soul. That is a lot of speculation going on there.

"And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to serve Jehovah, ​

so that his soul became impatient because of the trouble of Israel. Judges 10:16​

​

"Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, and anyone ​

loving violence his soul certainly hates." Ps 11:5​

I see Yᵊhōvâ (יְהֹוָה) (all uppercase “LORD” - KJB) as in reference to sacred name of the triune God.
Note: The 1611 KJB was the first Bible to make this distinction. “Lord” is in reference to Master.

This would also include Deuteronomy that says, “The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;” (Deuteronomy 18:15) (Which is the cross reference used for Acts 3:22).

​

'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because of the new. Moreover, I will ​

make My dwelling among you, and My soul will not reject you. 'I will also walk among ​

you and be your God, and you shall be My people." Lev 26:10-12​

This is a general reference to God.

ĕlōhîm (God).

So God (i.e., the Triune God) has a soul (i.e., mind, will, and emotions).

When we say that a person is soulless, we are saying that such a person is without any heart, or morals.

So God always had a soul eternally and it was not because of the Incarnation. God always had a mind, will, and emotions.

There is so much more to be learned and blessedly understood.

I agree there is always more to learn in God’s Word. But I respectfully disagree with you on this point. God in general has a soul, and it’s not because of the Incarnation, or because the Father is speaking through the Son. People are reading too much into Genesis 2:7.

Genesis 2:7 (KJB)
”And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”

grace and peace ..................

May God’s grace and good ways shine upon you and your family.

 

[GenemZ]

The Bible teaches we should speak with what is written.

“We having the same spirit of faith, according as it is written, I believed, and therefore have I spoken; we also believe, and therefore speak;” (2 Corinthians 4:13).

While the term “Second Adam” may not be in accurate, I prefer the more Scriptural name in that Jesus is called the “last Adam.”

”And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.“ (1 Corinthians 15:45).

Jesus also was manifest so as to destroy the works of the devil, as well (1 John 3:8). Meaning, Jesus came to destroy sin in believer’s lives. Jesus can set the captives free and can help believers to overcome sin in this life. For God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world (Titus 2:11-12). Paul says, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God (2 Corinthians 7:1).



Actually, only a human body was needed to accomplish mankind’s redemption on the cross, and not a human soul.

1 Peter 2:24
”Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins,
should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.”

Notice. That Peter says about Jesus in that He… “bare our sins in his body“ and it does not mention anything about how He did this with his soul.

Granted, a soul (i.e., the Word - second person of the Trinity) was needed to bring to life the dead body of Jesus (Which is a part of the resurrection and mankind’s salvation).


I believe the glory that Jesus once shared with the Father before the foundation of the world as mentioned in John 17 was His Omniscience (i.e., to have all knowledge as God).

I say this because the glory of the Lord is tied with knowledge. For Habakkuk says,

"For the earth shall be filled with the knowledge of the glory of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea." (Habakkuk 2:14).

And 2 Corinthians says,

"For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ." (2 Corinthians 4:6).

I believe Jesus was the One who was in the garden asking, “Where art thou?” when he did not see Adam and Eve (When they hid themselves because of their sin).



Nothing is said in John 4:23-24 in that God does not have a soul.
As I already pointed out before, God the Father has a soul as described in Isaiah 42:1.

Isaiah 42:1
”Behold my servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delighteth; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles.”

This is the Father talking about Jesus.

Matthew 12:18
”Behold my servant, whom I have chosen; my beloved, in whom my soul is well pleased: I will put my spirit upon him, and he shall shew judgment to the Gentiles.”

So Isaiah 42 is teaching that God the Father has a soul.
Yes, I know you can speculate all you want in that the Father is taking possession of the Son’s soul in order to say this but I get no indication of Scripture that this is so. There is no verse that says that the soul is a unique thing to humans only and that God the Father can take possession of the Son’s soul. That is a lot of speculation going on there.


I see Yᵊhōvâ (יְהֹוָה) (all uppercase “LORD” - KJB) as in reference to sacred name of the triune God.
Note: The 1611 KJB was the first Bible to make this distinction. “Lord” is in reference to Master.

This would also include Deuteronomy that says, “The LORD thy God will raise up unto thee a Prophet from the midst of thee, of thy brethren, like unto me; unto him ye shall hearken;” (Deuteronomy 18:15) (Which is the cross reference used for Acts 3:22).



This is a general reference to God.

ĕlōhîm (God).

So God (i.e., the Triune God) has a soul (i.e., mind, will, and emotions).

When we say that a person is soulless, we are saying that such a person is without any heart, or morals.

So God always had a soul eternally and it was not because of the Incarnation. God always had a mind, will, and emotions.


I agree there is always more to learn in God’s Word. But I respectfully disagree with you on this point. God in general has a soul, and it’s not because of the Incarnation, or because the Father is speaking through the Son. People are reading too much into Genesis 2:7.

Genesis 2:7 (KJB)
”And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.”


May God’s grace and good ways shine upon you and your family.

So? I see!

Everything I said was wrong (after it was put through your filter).


I don't wish to argue with you. But, one thing you missed for sure.


According to you?

Actually, only a human body was needed to accomplish mankind’s redemption on the cross, and not a human soul.

But, without a soul? He could not be tempted like we are, but without sin.

​

For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, ​

but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. " Hebrews 4:15​

Don't you know? God can not be tempted. So? It was needed for him to become like us as a man with a soul to be able to be tempted as to be able sympathize with us!

And, if (as you laid claim to) only a human body was needed to accomplish mankind’s redemption on the cross, and not a human soul?

Then God should have just produced a human body like in the Garden before breathing the breath of life into the nostrils.

When we think about it? What you said about only needing a body without a soul for atonement? Is silly.

But, it was contradictory to what I said. So, that served its purpose for you I suppose. ...

God bless! grace and peace ......
...................

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So? I see!

Everything I said was wrong (after it was put through your filter).


I don't wish to argue with you. But, one thing you missed for sure.


According to you?

Not sure how this helps me to see what you said.
I am open to seeing what others believe and I have been convinced by Scripture from others on the forum before in whom I disagreed with initially. What I need is clear proof that God does not have a soul and that the only way God the Father can have one is through the Incarnation with His Son. Sorry, the verses you presented clearly do not say this (at least from what you have shown me).

But, without a soul? He could not be tempted like we are, but without sin.
For we do not have a High Priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses,
but was in all points tempted as we are, yet without sin. " Hebrews 4:15

All beings have a soul (Including God), which is clear from Isaiah 42:1, and other verses.

As for Jesus being tempted:

I am familar with Hebrews 2:18, and Hebrews 4:15. But these verses are in reference to external temptation, and not internal tempation. For example: A person can try to sell you hot watches in a park, and you could later tell your co-workers that you were tempted by some guy. But that does not mean you were interested in the part of the temptation given.

Hebrews 7:26 says,
”For such an high priest became us, who is holy, harmless, undefiled, separate from sinners, and made higher than the heavens;”

Don't you know? God can not be tempted. So? It was needed for him to become like us as a man with a soul to be able to be tempted as to be able sympathize with us!

Yes, it is a violation of Scripture to say that God can be internally tempted to do evil.

James 1:13
”Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:”

1 John 1:5
”This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all. “

There is no darkness in God to be tempted by darkness.

And, if (as you laid claim to) only a human body was needed to accomplish mankind’s redemption on the cross, and not a human soul?

Then God should have just produced a human body like in the Garden before breathing the breath of life into the nostrils.

When we think about it? What you said about only needing a body without a soul for atonement? Is silly.

But, it was contradictory to what I said. So, that served its purpose for you I suppose. ...

God bless! grace and peace ......
...................

You produced no verse that shows that Jesus has redeemed us on the cross with a human soul. Peter only talks about how our sins were within his body and not his soul. So unless you have a verse, then you are only believing something that is a part of your imagination or thoughts.

May God’s good ways, and love always shine upon you.

 

[GenemZ]

Not sure how this helps me to see what you said.
I am open to seeing what others believe and I have been convinced by Scripture from others on the forum before in whom I disagreed with initially. What I need is clear proof that God does not have a soul and that the only way God the Father can have one is through the Incarnation with His Son. Sorry, the verses you presented clearly do not say this (at least from what you have shown me).

You do that very well......

Good day!

 

[sawdust]

So God always had a soul eternally and it was not because of the Incarnation. God always had a mind, will, and emotions.

Are you saying Spirit doesn't have mind, will and emotions?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Are you saying Spirit doesn't have mind, will and emotions?

I had a write up on another Christian forum on the soul, spirit, and body that I cannot find. In that write up, I explained how all three had appeared to have a mind and emotions to them (using lots of Scripture). So yes. I am aware of verses that attach emotions to our spirit.

I see the soul as the head (or main mind, will, and emotions) that makes the ultimate decisions for the spiritual body, and the physical body (even though both the spirit, and the body appear to have minds and emotions of their own). This makes sense because we are created in the image of God who is triune. This also explains why believers can battle within themselves in their walk with the LORD.

The only write up I did find (Which goes more into the discussion of the soul) is here:

What is the soul?

What is the soul? The soul is one's mind, will, and emotions. The Mind Being a Part of the Soul: The soul is of three parts—the mind, the will, and the emotion. This is clearly and definitely proved by the Word of God. Proverbs 2:10 gives us the spiritual ground to prove that the mind is a...

www.christianforums.com

I hope it helps.

May God bless you.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@sawdust

Continuing on my point before on the struggle that goes on in believers:

Well, there is a Christian movie that goes into the struggle between different aspects of a believer. While it is a very entertaining film, and has some really good biblical messages, the concept of the different aspects inside a believer as depicted in the film does not appear to be biblical. But I still would recommend it, though (if you have not seen it).

The War Within:

Trailer:

You can watch this for free at Christian Movies Channel on YouTube: