New--SDA General Conference Statement on EGW writings

[Leaf473]

Given that prophecy is an identifying mark of the remnant Church, what tests do SDA's use to identify a prophet?

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Given that prophecy is an identifying mark of the remnant Church, what tests do SDA's use to identify a prophet?

The SDA church has very strict rules for identifying a prophet. That's why this is such a problem. She violates them. And then they won't admit that she's not what she says she is.

 

[Leaf473]

The SDA church has very strict rules for identifying a prophet. That's why this is such a problem. She violates them. And then they won't admit that she's not what she says she is.

Interesting! Do you know where I can find these rules that Adventists use?

 

[Adventist Dissident]

This is standard materiel. notice only one of them mentions Deut 18:20-21

1. 10 Tests Of A Prophet | Ellen G White Truth
2. The tests of a prophet
3. https://absg.adventist.org/pdf.php?file=2009:1Q:SE:PDFs:EAQ109_06.pdf
4. How Do You Tell a False Prophet From a True Prophet?

 

[Leaf473]

This is standard materiel. notice only one of them mentions Deut 18:20-21

1. 10 Tests Of A Prophet | Ellen G White Truth
2. The tests of a prophet
3. https://absg.adventist.org/pdf.php?file=2009:1Q:SE:PDFs:EAQ109_06.pdf
4. How Do You Tell a False Prophet From a True Prophet?

Thanks for the information. Two observations:

1) Frequent mention is made of prophecies about the future that come true.
But if some prophecies are conditional,
and if there's no way to know when a prophecy is conditional,
then this test has no practical application imo.

2) The idea of speaking according to the scriptures. Suppose a person believes they have found something in Ellen's writings that don't line up with the scriptures. Since those writings are "an inspired guide to Bible passages" and "correct inaccurate interpretations",
(see posts 1&3 on this thread)
the other person must be wrong. But that's a circular approach.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Thanks for the information. Two observations:

1) Frequent mention is made of prophecies about the future that come true.
But if some prophecies are conditional,
and if there's no way to know when a prophecy is conditional,
then this test has no practical application imo.

2) The idea of speaking according to the scriptures. Suppose a person believes they have found something in Ellen's writings that don't line up with the scriptures. Since those writings are "an inspired guide to Bible passages" and "correct inaccurate interpretations",
(see posts 1&3 on this thread)
the other person must be wrong. But that's a circular approach.

this happen a lot in Adventism. "But Mrs. White Says....." is the standard phrase you here. I was talking to John Lomacang about 15 years ago and telling him what I found and he said "Could Mrs. White be wrong?" I was like wow he sees it. Most don't they just dismiss it when it come into conflict with what they are taught.

 

[Leaf473]

this happen a lot in Adventism. "But Mrs. White Says....." is the standard phrase you here. I was talking to John Lomacang about 15 years ago and telling him what I found and he said "Could Mrs. White be wrong?" I was like wow he sees it. Most don't they just dismiss it when it come into conflict with what they are taught.

Very interesting! I hadn't heard of John Lomacang before reading your post, but I searched on the internet and found his website. Sounds like you know a lot of people in the Adventist movement

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Very interesting! I hadn't heard of John Lomacang before reading your post, but I searched on the internet and found his website. Sounds like you know a lot of people in the Adventist movement

yes i know quite a number of very famous SDA. I live 20+ years in an SDA college enviroment. Lomacang came out to CA in 1987 at a Doug Batchlor Seminar, at which I was baptized. I have spent a significant time in major SDA centers. Universities and Colleges, Hospitals. I used to work for the Head of Pacific Press, Dale Galusha, when he was a low level Evangelist. When I attended PUC a number of very famous SDA Admin were my advisors. So I know a lot of people. who are very famous. I love being and SDA and want to be part of the best that it had to offer..

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Pastor Lomacang quotes EGW often, so doesn't seem to share in the sentiments people are claiming he does.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Pastor Lomacang quotes EGW often, so doesn't seem to share in the sentiments people are claiming he does.

Yes he does quote Ellen White quite a bit, that is not in dispute. John is also a very intelligent man and he's had a personal encounter with the Lord. John is the type of person that would become an Evangelical very easy if the Lord asked him to go that way. Same with elder Bachelor. Because both of them have personal relationships with the Lord. My conversation with elder Lomacang was a private conversation. John would not say something like that in public. You don't know these people you don't have a personal relationship with them they've never been friends of yours. I do. I know elder Lomacang from my time in Santa Rosa, redwood camp meeting when I spend time with him. Few times I actually sang with him publicly.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes he does quote Ellen White quite a bit, that is not in dispute. John is also a very intelligent man and he's had a personal encounter with the Lord. John is the type of person that would become an Evangelical very easy if the Lord asked him to go that way. Same with elder Bachelor. Because both of them have personal relationships with the Lord. My conversation with elder Lomacang was a private conversation. John would not say something like that in public. You don't know these people you don't have a personal relationship with them they've never been friends of yours. I do. I know elder Lomacang from my time in Santa Rosa, redwood camp meeting when I spend time with him. Few times I actually sang with him publicly.

Private conversations are just that, private and should remain so - too easy to take things out of context and he is not here to defend himself.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

It's best to let people speak for themselves. Private conversations should remain private, not to be shared one-sided on the internet- way too easy to take things out of context or hear what one wants to. I'm not sure how you would know who I am friends with or who I know since we don't know each other. I would never share this information on a public site, I have way too much respect for people, especially ones I call friends. A friend would never harm someone, loving our neighbor is to do no harm. Sharing private conversations on a public website, is not something I imagine Pastor Lomacang would be very happy about, which is why hearsay/gossip is not always to be believed

You don't know pastor Lomacang. so don't speak for him. the private conversation was on a street corner with 5 other people around. Not some backroom conversation or private email. it was not from the pulpit or in a large group. It was not a secret meeting.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

 

[Leaf473]

Interesting video, and less than a minute long

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Ellen White said that Jerusalem would never be rebuilt again, “I also saw that Old Jerusalem never would be built up…” (Early Writings, p. 75).

Jerusalem is built up and will be the center of Christs Reign in Jerusalem for 1000 years. EGW wrong again.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Ellen White said that Jerusalem would never be rebuilt again, “I also saw that Old Jerusalem never would be built up…” (Early Writings, p. 75).

Jerusalem is built up and will be the center of Christs Reign in Jerusalem for 1000 years. EGW wrong again.

Old Jerusalem (literal Israel) is not New Jerusalem. The millennium is in heaven not Old Jerusalem, than God will bring the New Jerusalem down from heaven where He will forever dwell with His people.

Rev 3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.

Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God

 

[Adventist Dissident]

Nope…..Old Jerusalem (literal Israel) is not New Jerusalem.

Rev 3:12 He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he shall go out no more. I will write on him the name of My God and the name of the city of My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.

Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John, saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God

Your short answer does not address the issue.

1. the real issue is where is the 1000 years. on heaven or on earth. Because of your View of EGW as a Prophet you get this wrong. it is ON EARTH. You say the 1000 years is in heaven. it is not the the New Jerusalem is always associated with heaven and the new heavens & new earth which is after the 1000 years.

New Jerusalem Hebrews 12:22
22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
a. NJ in Heaven As he writes it.
b. 1000s of Angels - As He writes it.
c. church of first born of heaven - As He writes it.
d. God judge of spirits of righteous perfect -As He writes it.
e. Jesus mediator of New Covenat. - As He writes it.
f. writer of Hebrews is talking in the present. those things are happening as he writes them.

Rev 3:12 My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
This happen after the 1000 years on earth. After Satan is unchained and let out of the Pit and is destroyed. has not happened yet


This post is talking about 2 things

1. a the prophetic regathering if Israel from the nations to Jerusalem as a sign of the Return of the Lord. This is currently being fulled as Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Israel did not exist at the time of her statement. Jerusalem was not the Capital .EGW spoke against it. she said it would NEVER Happen. It did

2. a 1000 years of peace and prosperity ON THE EARTH. Is the correct view and the Sabbath is the sign of it. This teaching which is the dominate view outside of SDAism is not taught by EGW or the SDA Church. They rejected it in favor of EGW view. it was the cause of one of the first split in the SDA church. The Charge was that EGW was setting the doctrines of the Church not the Bible. it lead to the Bible Conference's of the 1850's where EGW endorsed the wrong view of salvation. which they had to change in 1888. and cause another split in the Church, which lead to D.M. Canwright leaving the SDA church.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Your short answer does not address the issue.

1. the real issue is where is the 1000 years. on heaven or on earth. Because of your View of EGW as a Prophet you get this wrong. it is ON EARTH. You say the 1000 years is in heaven. it is not the the New Jerusalem is always associated with heaven and the new heavens & new earth which is after the 1000 years.

New Jerusalem Hebrews 12:22
22 But you have come to Mount Zion, to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem. You have come to thousands upon thousands of angels in joyful assembly, 23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 to Jesus the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
a. NJ in Heaven As he writes it.
b. 1000s of Angels - As He writes it.
c. church of first born of heaven - As He writes it.
d. God judge of spirits of righteous perfect -As He writes it.
e. Jesus mediator of New Covenat. - As He writes it.
f. writer of Hebrews is talking in the present. those things are happening as he writes them.

Rev 3:12 My God, the New Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God. And I will write on him My new name.
This happen after the 1000 years on earth. After Satan is unchained and let out of the Pit and is destroyed. has not happened yet


This post is talking about 2 things

1. a the prophetic regathering if Israel from the nations to Jerusalem as a sign of the Return of the Lord. This is currently being fulled as Jerusalem is the capital of Israel. Israel did not exist at the time of her statement. Jerusalem was not the Capital .EGW spoke against it. she said it would NEVER Happen. It did

2. a 1000 years of peace and prosperity ON THE EARTH. Is the correct view and the Sabbath is the sign of it. This teaching which is the dominate view outside of SDAism is not taught by EGW or the SDA Church. They rejected it in favor of EGW view. it was the cause of one of the first split in the SDA church. The Charge was that EGW was setting the doctrines of the Church not the Bible. it lead to the Bible Conference's of the 1850's where EGW endorsed the wrong view of salvation. which they had to change in 1888. and cause another split in the Church, which lead to D.M. Canwright leaving the SDA church.

You have no scripture that says the millennium is on earth, just your word- nothing you posted says that. There will be no more Mediator in the millennium because everyone will have already made their decision Revelation 22:11 so your timeline is off on the scripture you posted.

When Jesus comes the saints will meet Him in the clouds 1 Thessalonians 4:17. His feet don’t touch the ground and the saints will go where He has prepared a place for them. John 14:2-6

Second you make the claim that EWG got a prophecy wrong about the millennium that hasn’t even happened yet, so your whole accusation is again based on a false premise of a prediction that was wrong, when its future and has not happened.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

The millennium is in heaven not Old Jerusalem,

You are incorrect here. it is on earth. and the Sabbath is the promise of that. He will restore all things. you mistakenly ascribe the New Jerusalem to the 1000 years in heaven, because of you mistaken view of the soul.

1 Thes 4:13-18

13Brothers, we do not want you to be uninformed about those who sleep in death,c so that you will not grieve like the rest, who are without hope. 14For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, we also believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in Him.

15By the word of the Lord, we declare to you that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord will by no means precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a loud command, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will be the first to rise. 17After that, we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will always be with the Lord.

18Therefore encourage one another with these words.

The next chapter goes into detail about the 2nd coming.
this is at the second coming and God is bringing something/something with him vs.14. . Bringing that means they are all ready with him.
Just in case you weren't clear on the matter he state so in vs 23 there is a soul that must be sanctified.


1 Thess. 5:23 23Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely, and may your entire spirit, soul, and body be kept blamelessa at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Adventist Dissident]

You have no scripture that says the millennium is on earth, just your word- nothing you posted says that.

Wrong again Sabbath Blessing, All scriptures say the 1000 years is on the earth. you just don't see it because you are being blinded by EGW.
It is REV 19
Rejoicing in Heaven

1After this I heard a sound like the roar of a great multitude in heaven, shouting:

“Hallelujah!a

Salvation and glory and power belong to our God!

2For His judgments are true and just.

He has judged the great prostitute

who corrupted the earth with her immorality.

He has avenged the blood of His servants

that was poured out by her hand.”

3And a second time they called out:

“Hallelujah!

Her smoke rises forever and ever.”

4And the twenty-four elders and the four living creatures fell down and worshiped God who sits on the throne, saying:

“Amen, Hallelujah!”

5Then a voice came from the throne, saying:

“Praise our God,

all you who serve Him,

and those who fear Him,

small and great alike!”

The Marriage of the Lamb

6And I heard a sound like the roar of a great multitude, like the rushing of many waters, and like a mighty rumbling of thunder, crying out:

“Hallelujah!

For the Lord our Godb the Almighty reigns.

7Let us rejoice and be glad

and give Him the glory.

For the marriage of the Lamb has come,

and His bride has made herself ready.

8She was given clothing of fine linen,

bright and pure.”

For the fine linen she wears is the righteous acts of the saints.

9Then the angel told me to write, “Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.” And he said to me, “These are the true words of God.”

10So I fell at his feet to worship him. But he told me, “Do not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who rely on the testimony of Jesus. Worship God! For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.”

The Rider on the White Horse

11Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True. With righteousness He judges and wages war. 12He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood,c and His name is The Word of God.

14The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses. 15And from His mouth proceeds a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations, and He will rule them with an iron scepter.d He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. 16And He has a name written on His robe and on His thigh:



KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.
Defeat of the Beast and False Prophet

17Then I saw an angel standing in the sun, and he cried out in a loud voice to all the birds flying overhead, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings and commanders and mighty men, of horses and riders, of everyone slave and free, small and great.”

19Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth with their armies assembled to wage war against the One seated on the horse, and against His army. 20But the beast was captured along with the false prophet, who on its behalf had performed signs deceiving those who had the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. Both the beast and the false prophet were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21And the rest were killed with the sword that proceeded from the mouth of the One seated on the horse.

And all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.
All the bold black are thing that happen at the return of the Lord All are on the EARTH. Now look at Chapter 20

Satan Bound

1Then I saw an angel coming down from heaven with the key to the Abyss, holding in his hand a great chain. 2He seized the dragon, that ancient serpent who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3And he threw him into the Abyss, shut it, and sealed it over him, so that he could not deceive the nations until the thousand years were complete. After that, he must be released for a brief period of time.
Notice: 1. angle comes from heaven
2. has keys to the Abyss & and Great Chain
3. seizes the dragon
4. throws him into the Abyss, shuts it and seals it over him
5. Cannot decieve the Nations, until the 1000 years are complete Why dose it matter if you are in heaven? Nations are on Earth.
6.

4Then I saw the thrones, and those seated on them had been given authority to judge. And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image, and had not received its mark on their foreheads or hands. And they came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.

5The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years were complete. This is the first resurrection. 6Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection! The second death has no power over them, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and will reign with Him for a thousand years.
1. 1000 years the saints rule and reign. if this is in heaven Who do they rule and what are they ruling about?
2. the saint whose head was cut off , saints that did not worship beast (on the earth)come back to life.
Satan Cast into the Lake of Fire

7When the thousand years are complete, Satan will be released from his prison, 8and will go out to deceive the nations in the four corners of the earth—Gog and Magog—to assemble them for battle. Their number is like the sand of the seashore.
a. After 1000 years Satan Released from prison. Notice it does not say from Earth. He is on the earth AFTER he is released.
b. decieves Nations in 4 corners of earth

9And they marched across the broad expanse of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. But fire came down from heavena and consumed them. 10And the devil who had deceived them was thrown into the lake of fire and sulfur, into which the beast and the false prophet had already been thrown. There they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.

a. Satan marches ACROSS the EARTH
b. Satan SURROUNDS the camp of the Saints
c. Fire come from HEAVEN and consumes them.