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Woke is Marxism Evolved to Take on the West

Bradskii

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Did someone suggest - perhaps they did, I don't know - that homosexuals should receive the Levitical punishment in the here and now?
Nobody suggested that gay people used to deserve death (except you, I think). Nobody suggested that hey, we're not actually talking about the here and now. Nobody qualified the quote to lessen the impact of the words used in any way. In fact, it was asked if the person stood by that specific quote in the context it was made. The answer was a definite yes.

In fact - I have just recalled this...someone also suggested that the Quran calls for the death of gay people so why are you just picking on Christians? Effectively implying that if they can do it, then why can't we.

I have to tell you, when you've dug a hole of your own making the best response is to stop digging.
 
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ralliann

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No. I can't accuse people of things that are untrue. How is that even possible? What point can you possibly be trying to make?

Nobody suggested that gay people used to deserve death (except you, I think). Nobody suggested that hey, we're not actually talking about the here and now. Nobody qualified the quote to lessen the impact of the words used in any way. In fact, it was asked if the person stood by that specific quote in the context it was made. The answer was a definite yes.

In fact - I have just recalled this...someone also suggested that the Quran calls for the death of gay people so why are you just picking on Christians? Effectively implying that if they can do it, then why can't we.
If you are speaking about my mention of Islam, this would be a complete mischaracterizing of it. Maybe you are speaking of someone else.
 
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Bradskii

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I just reviewed all 16 pages of this thread, which caused several million of my brain cells to die a horrible, screaming death. I believe you are the one who has dug a hole and can't stop.

The person you are speaking about is clearly @Aldebaran. I have strung below a number of his (her?) quotes that are entirely consistent with what I am saying and entirely inconsistent with the words that you and others are trying to put in his mouth. He makes precisely the distinction I make. But that simply isn't good enough for your little box of woke preconceptions, so you rail against strawmen.
All you have done is show the attempts to back down on what was plainly quoted. All well after the comment was made. Well after blatantly obvious comments such as this were made.

Nobody said you wanted to kill anyone. But you agree with the bible when it says they deserve death. This couldn't be clearer.

'Is it a problem for you if I agree with scripture?'

Scripture says (and was quoted as saying) that homosexuals deserve death. So let's be clear. Does the poster agree with it? That was asked after multiple posts discussing it, all of which offered opportunities to qualify it, to justify it, to put some other context on it. But no qualifications were offered. No justification given. No context. Just a simple affirmation: 'Hey, is it a problem for you?'

And the point is, not that some post hoc justification can be made further down the track (hey, Islam says it as well, they can always repent, there are other sins...etc), it's the fact that quotes like that can be given, with no context, no qualifications, and then confirmation given that 'I agree with what was said' with some expectation that they won't be called out on it? That quotes like that are acceptable in any way whatsoever? That people on this forum are gay who would be Christian. Some of whom may well be hiding that fact because of what people might say. Who then read that someone says that scripture tells them they deserve death.

Well yeah. It is a problem for me. It's a huge problem. And one which you and others need to address.
 
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Robban

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FWIW:

Most of the Jewish interpreters, Jarchi (on Le 17:16), Kimchi, and Maimonides (Mor. Neb. 3:38) among the number, say that in the worship of Molech the children were not burned, but made to pass between two burning pyres, as a purificatory rite. But the allusions to the actual slaughter are too plain to be mistaken, and Aben Ezra, in his note on Le 18:21, says that "to cause to pass through" is the same as "to burn." "They sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils, and shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan" (Ps 106:37-38). In Jer 7:31, the reference to the worship of Molech by human sacrifice is still more distinct: "They have built the high places of Tophet... to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire," as "burnt-offerings unto Baal," the sun-god of Tyre, with whom, or in whose character, Molech was worshipped (Jer 19:5). Compare the statements in De 12:31; Eze 16:20-21; Eze 23:37; the last two of which may also be adduced to show that the victims were slaughtered before they were burned. But the most remarkable passage is that in 2Ch 28:3, in which the wickedness of Ahaz is described: "Moreover, he burned incense in the valley of the son of Hinnom, and burned (וִיִּבעֵר) his children in the fire, after the abominations of the nations whom Jehovah had driven out before the children of Israel." Now, in the parallel narrative of 2Ki 16:3, instead of וִיִּבעֵר, "and he burned," the reading is הֶעֵַביר, "he made to pass through," and Dr. Geiger suggests that the former may be the true reading, of which the latter is an easy modification, serving as a euphemistic expression to disguise the horrible nature of the sacrificial rites. But it is more natural to suppose that it is an exceptional instance, and that the true reading is וִיִּעֲבֵר than to assume that the other passages have been intentionally altered. We may infer from the expression, "after the abominations of the nations whom Jehovah had driven out before the children of Israel," that the character of the Molech-worship of the time of Ahaz was essentially the same. as that of the old Canaanites, although Movers maintains the contrary.​
Psalms 106 describes the situation among the people,

they forgot the Lord their God and the wonders He had wrought,

not for their sake but for His names sake, that His mighty strength be known.
 
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Larniavc

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I do think people are animals but I am careful not to call people animals, there is no point in deliberately saying things some people take the wrong way and rant about being a victim of personal attacks
Silly goose! If you don’t do that you can’t play the persecuted Christian card.
 
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ralliann

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FWIW:

Most of the Jewish interpreters, Jarchi (on Le 17:16), Kimchi, and Maimonides (Mor. Neb. 3:38) among the number, say that in the worship of Molech the children were not burned, but made to pass between two burning pyres, as a purificatory rite. But the allusions to the actual slaughter are too plain to be mistaken, and Aben Ezra, in his note on Le 18:21, says that "to cause to pass through" is the same as "to burn." "They sacrificed their sons and their daughters unto devils, and shed innocent blood, the blood of their sons and of their daughters, whom they sacrificed unto the idols of Canaan" (Ps 106:37-38). In Jer 7:31, the reference to the worship of Molech by human sacrifice is still more distinct: "They have built the high places of Tophet... to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire," as "burnt-offerings unto Baal," the sun-god of Tyre, with whom, or in whose character, Molech was worshipped (Jer 19:5). Compare the statements in De 12:31; Eze 16:20-21; Eze 23:37; the last two of which may also be adduced to show that the victims were slaughtered before they were burned. But the most remarkable passage is that in 2Ch 28:3, in which the wickedness of Ahaz is described: "Moreover, he burned incense in the valley of the son of Hinnom, and burned (וִיִּבעֵר) his children in the fire, after the abominations of the nations whom Jehovah had driven out before the children of Israel." Now, in the parallel narrative of 2Ki 16:3, instead of וִיִּבעֵר, "and he burned," the reading is הֶעֵַביר, "he made to pass through," and Dr. Geiger suggests that the former may be the true reading, of which the latter is an easy modification, serving as a euphemistic expression to disguise the horrible nature of the sacrificial rites. But it is more natural to suppose that it is an exceptional instance, and that the true reading is וִיִּעֲבֵר than to assume that the other passages have been intentionally altered. We may infer from the expression, "after the abominations of the nations whom Jehovah had driven out before the children of Israel," that the character of the Molech-worship of the time of Ahaz was essentially the same. as that of the old Canaanites, although Movers maintains the contrary.​
Just thinking about the priests of baal. They cut themselves and their blood gushed out. mixing their blood with the sacrifices. This blood gush (shed) of themselves, was not their death, but self mutilation, which Lancet says was common in Oriental frenzy. We do not know whether the Jewish tradition recorded about the hollow brass Idol is not true. I had hoped the kids were not still alive, but mention of their blood gushing/shedding is the same Hebrew phrase as with the priests which cut themselves.
 
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ralliann

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You identify as an atheist and say you place no stock in Scripture. Why does a Christian need to "address" anything for you? I'm guessing the entire Gospel message is a "huge problem" for you, but so what - you're the one who identifies as an atheist.
How, on earth can a Christian explain what they believe against what he is claiming they believe? I did that, and he wouldn't read it.
 
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Bradskii

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You identify as an atheist and say you place no stock in Scripture. Why does a Christian need to "address" anything for you?
You don't. But you're in a section of the forum that relates to secular matters. Where we ungodly are free to discuss matters. I would have thought that you would have realised that quoting scripture to someone who isn't a Christian to try to convince them of any position is something of a waste of time. Would someone quoting the Vida or the Quran as an argument in itself convince you of anything?
 
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Bradskii

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How, on earth can a Christian explain what they believe against what he is claiming they believe? I did that, and he wouldn't read it.
Because if you say 'I believe X because it says so in the bible' and offer no other reasons then we have nothing to discuss. If you do offer other reasons then I'll treat them as any other argument and respond accordingly.

Do you understand?
 
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ralliann

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Because if you say 'I believe X because it says so in the bible' and offer no other reasons then we have nothing to discuss. If you do offer other reasons then I'll treat them as any other argument and respond accordingly.

Do you understand?
I gave you the reason We don't kill gays.
But I will try to make it clearer by perhaps using some things that you I think you might understand if you would like?
 
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Bradskii

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I gave you the reason We don't kill gays.
But it seems that quoting that they deserve death is perfectly acceptable. It isn't.
But I will try to make it clearer by perhaps using some things that you I think you might understand if you would like?
Hey, that's always an option! Just skip any parts that are effectively 'it is written'.
 
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Aldebaran

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All you have done is show the attempts to back down on what was plainly quoted. All well after the comment was made. Well after blatantly obvious comments such as this were made.
Back down? Seriously?
In post #183, you accused me of doubling down:
You quoted what you believe God has said about homosexuals deserving to die and said that you don't think the quote wrong. And now you want to double down by reposting it?
So which is it?
 
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Aldebaran

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I wouldn't know. I've told you, I don't read arguments based on scripture.
The whole "gays deserve death" thing you've been hung up on for multiple pages is not only based on scripture, it is scripture.
 
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Bradskii

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Back down? Seriously?
In post #183, you accused me of doubling down:

So which is it?
Now which order do you think that happened? You posting the quote, saying that you most definitely stood by the quote, as it was quoted, specifically against gays and asking 'Hey, you got a problem with that?' and then saying...but no, we all deserve death, we're all sinners, they can repent, it wasn't just gay people, it was just a general comment on sin in general...

Which order do you think that occurred?
 
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Bradskii

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The whole "gays deserve death" thing you've been hung up on for multiple pages is not only based on scripture, it is scripture.
Hence ignored as an argument. But condemned as an abominable statement used as it was in the context it was used. Hasn't that been patently obvious to you?
 
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Aldebaran

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Now which order do you think that happened? You posting the quote, saying that you most definitely stood by the quote, as it was quoted, specifically against gays and asking 'Hey, you got a problem with that?' and then saying...but no, we all deserve death, we're all sinners, they can repent, it wasn't just gay people, it was just a general comment on sin in general...

Which order do you think that occurred?
You wanted clarification, and I gave it to you.
 
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Aldebaran

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Hence ignored as an argument. But condemned as an abominable statement used as it was in the context it was used. Hasn't that been patently obvious to you?
All I see is that you keep repeating that.
 
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ralliann

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But it seems that quoting that they deserve death is perfectly acceptable. It isn't.

Hey, that's always an option! Just skip any parts that are effectively 'it is written'.
It still has to do with what is written, but I think I can try one more time to put it in a context to speak to you. I do not know if it will evne matter but hey, my last effort.


Was the January 6th event at the capital .

It is not much different than the concept of the difference between the "Insurrection", and a protest at the same building. But insurrection was about the people inside, and what they were there to accomplish
Sin, defiles. It defiles his land, his people, his priests which ministered in his house and his house itself.
And blasphemed him
You could not be in God's presence and defile his house, his tabernacle, his land.

That is why they died. Men throughout history have suffered death for less in showing disrespect, to kings, Emperors etc.

Should those who blasphemed God have been killed? Yes, if you believe there is a God.

This was not the case with the nations, God was not present among them, to cause this level of blaspheme of him.
It was also a choice.....
 
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Bradskii

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It still has to do with what is written, but I think I can try one more time to put it in a context to speak to you. I do not know if it will evne matter but hey, my last effort.


Was the January 6th event at the capital .

It is not much different than the concept of the difference between the "Insurrection", and a protest at the same building. But insurrection was about the people inside, and what they were there to accomplish
Sin, defiles. It defiles his land, his people, his priests which ministered in his house and his house itself.
And blasphemed him
You could not be in God's presence and defile his house, his tabernacle, his land.

That is why they died. Men throughout history have suffered death for less in showing disrespect, to kings, Emperors etc.

Should those who blasphemed God have been killed? Yes, if you believe there is a God.

This was not the case with the nations, God was not present among them, to cause this level of blaspheme of him.
It was also a choice.....
I ask for an argument that relates to the thread that doesn't rely on religious beliefs. And you give me a rambling answer about Jan 6 and then tie that to...a reliance on religious beliefs.

At least there's a silver lining. It was your last effort.
 
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