Woke is Marxism Evolved to Take on the West

[Bradskii]

It's in post #13.

If it is correct that he claims that lbgt people are groomers then it sounds like he is suggesting that gay people, including ones in this forum, are paedophiles.

And apparently he does. From here: James Lindsay

According to a September 2022 report released by the Center for Countering Digital Hate and the Human Rights Campaign, between January and July 2022, tweets mentioning the derogatory, anti-LGBTQ social media phrase “ok, groomer” increased 2,465%. In Lindsay's interview with Andy Ngo, he indirectly took credit for this boom: “I can't claim that I was the first person to do it, but I think that I can credibly claim that I was the one who popularized it and kind of drove it into the mainstream.”

Now I've read about the guy, well...I kinda feel like I need a shower.

 

[Chesterton]

Woke silliness is its own collection of bad ideas. Attempting to hitch it to other bad ideas, like marxism, does a disservice to arguments against it by muddying the waters with spurious connections.

No. You mention "spurious connections". My first post in this thread praised Lindsay for making the real, substantial connections. The waters are muddy, but what makes Lindsay important and useful is that he steers clearly though those waters. It's time consuming to delve into, because the roots of Marxism pre-date Marx himself; they go back to Hegel, but we are experiencing its effects today. I'm not that interested in labeling things with names; as you say, a collection of bad ideas is a collections of bad ideas, but it does have a name.

 

[Bradskii]

Really? Would you feel any better about me if I told you that English Cockneys and Louisiana Cajuns (and many other white people) also don't talk correctly?

So if someone from Hackney (and I used to live there) asked you to go out for a beer, then you'd say 'I'm going to pass because you sound like an imbecile'.

 

[Aldebaran]

Woke silliness is its own collection of bad ideas. Attempting to hitch it to other bad ideas, like marxism, does a disservice to arguments against it by muddying the waters with spurious connections.

The similarities and connections are there for anyone willing to learn about it: Why Wokeism is indeed Neo-Marxism #3

 

[Chesterton]

If it is correct that he claims that lbgt people are groomers then it sounds like he is suggesting that gay people, including ones in this forum, are paedophiles.

And apparently he does. From here: James Lindsay

According to a September 2022 report released by the Center for Countering Digital Hate and the Human Rights Campaign, between January and July 2022, tweets mentioning the derogatory, anti-LGBTQ social media phrase “ok, groomer” increased 2,465%. In Lindsay's interview with Andy Ngo, he indirectly took credit for this boom: “I can't claim that I was the first person to do it, but I think that I can credibly claim that I was the one who popularized it and kind of drove it into the mainstream.”

Now I've read about the guy, well...I kinda feel like I need a shower.

I guess I'm also missing something. What part of your post demonstrates that Lindsay is a pedophile?

 

[Chesterton]

So if someone from Hackney (and I used to live there) asked you to go out for a beer, then you'd say 'I'm going to pass because you sound like an imbecile'.

Depends on if he was going to buy me the beer.

 

[USincognito]

I guess I'm also missing something. What part of your post demonstrates that Lindsay is a pedophile?

No one in this thread has asserted he is one and thus there's no need to demonstrate that. What was suggested, given what we're seen about those who rage most furiously about LGBT being groomers, is that it's projection on his part. That's all.

 

[Bradskii]

I guess I'm also missing something. What part of your post demonstrates that Lindsay is a pedophile?

Absolutely none of it. Are you not following the conversation?

You thought someone suggested that he might be because he is compensating for his own urges in claiming that lgbt people are groomers. As he actually does say that then you must accept that he considers gay people paedophiles. Including the forum members who might be gay. It might be worth asking if you agree with him on that, as you seem to agree with a lot of what he says.

 

[Bradskii]

Depends on if he was going to buy me the beer.

I think the point is not that you might accept a beer, but that you'd think he was an imbecile.

 

[Desk trauma]

The similarities and connections are there for anyone willing to learn about it: Why Wokeism is indeed Neo-Marxism #3

I’m aware of people making that claim, it’s nonsense. With all the hindquarters discomfort over woke redefinition of words I would think that redefinition of Marxism would be anathema.

 

[Desk trauma]

No.

Yes.

You mention "spurious connections". My first post in this thread praised Lindsay for making the real, substantial connections.

Praise him all you want, it’s word salad at best.

The waters are muddy, but what makes Lindsay important and useful is that he steers clearly though those waters. It's time consuming to delve into, because the roots of Marxism pre-date Marx himself; they go back to Hegel, but we are experiencing its effects today. I'm not that interested in labeling things with names; as you say, a collection of bad ideas is a collections of bad ideas, but it does have a name.

Yep and it’s not Marxism.

 

[Gene2memE]

No. You mention "spurious connections". My first post in this thread praised Lindsay for making the real, substantial connections. The waters are muddy, but what makes Lindsay important and useful is that he steers clearly though those waters. It's time consuming to delve into, because the roots of Marxism pre-date Marx himself; they go back to Hegel,

Marxism was written as an explicit critique of the political economy of capitalism of the mid 1800s, as well as an extension (and repudiation, in some cases) of earlier socialist theories.

Marx borrowed ideas from all over the place - not just Hegelian dialectics. In terms of political economy he draws on various forms of 'utopian' socialism - the Christian socialism of More and various Italian theologists, the collectivism of Saint-Simon, the individualism of Fourier, the Ricadian industrial socialists and various radical elements from the English trade union movement of the early 1800s.

Plus, there are all the classical philosophers and economists that Marx was building on or responding to - Locke, Smith, Mill, Say, Ricardo, Malthus, Quesnay, Thornton etc,etc.


I suspect that Lindsay knows very little of this. I'd be surprised if he's read Das Kapital (I don't blame him, its an awful slog). I wouldn't be surprised if he's read a lot of criticisms of it though.

What he seems to mean by 'Marxism' is mostly a specter of his own creation, conjured as a boogeyman to fight and a anti-panacea to blame all societal ills upon. Marxism is a shibboleth, used to create an imaginary other to blame and fight against in culture wars.

He's similar to young earth creationists in a sense - he rails against something that is mostly a figment of his own imagination.

 

[Pommer]

Woke silliness is its own collection of bad ideas. Attempting to hitch it to other bad ideas, like marxism, does a disservice to arguments against it by muddying the waters with spurious connections.

Which “woke” though, the generic “woke” or The Official Right Wing Version of ‘The Woke’?

 

[Pommer]

I’m aware of people making that claim, it’s nonsense. With all the hindquarters discomfort over woke redefinition of words I would think that redefinition of Marxism would be anathema.

Right but the game is “six-degrees-of-Marxism“, or “it’s okay to hate this because MARXISM!”
That’s all.

 

[Hans Blaster]

Which “woke” though, the generic “woke” or The Official Right Wing Version of ‘The Woke’?

Oh, there is only one "woke" left, and that is the grab-bag of social and cultural issues opposed by the "anti-woke" right. To the extent that a modern left wing version had a brief self-generated set of ideas that they were awoke to, the moment the RW media machine took possession of the term and added in all of the things they disliked, it lost usefulness to them. I don't hear the left talking about "woke" anymore except in the context of the anti-woke culture warriors. It's just like the right's redefinition of "CRT" to include anything they didn't like about race. (And which was then folded into the current RW version of "woke".)

[Edit: fixed a few typos]

 

[Yttrium]

Why Wokeism is indeed Neo-Marxism #3

Well, when you put it that way, I can see parallels between Marxism and that conspiracy strawman version of woke. I'd be concerned about it if it existed in real life. All this version is really good for is propaganda, so be sure to get the most out of it.

 

[Aldebaran]

I’m aware of people making that claim, it’s nonsense. With all the hindquarters discomfort over woke redefinition of words I would think that redefinition of Marxism would be anathema.

And I would think the promoters of such Marxism would be flattered by the imitation.

 

[Larniavc]

I'll give you a second chance on that. If you have evidence of that I'd like to hear it, because otherwise, it sounds like actionable slander.

I said ‘in all likelihood’. The evidence is that he is vociferously accusatory about paedophillia to LGBTQ+ folks. The right has a storied history of vociferous anti X while being secretly really into X.

So I may be wrong but it would not surprise me if I was right.

 

[Larniavc]

They are allowed to. They are allowed to be incorrect. Let me ask you though, why do you think are there no national personalities like CNN or Fox News or ESPN anchors who speak ebonics or Cajun?

Watch some UK TV. We have much less of a prejudice against regional accents: and we have loads!

 

[Larniavc]

Not white supremacy at all.

It’s not racism. But it is prejudice. It’s not having equal opportunities.

We agree that’s bad, right?