Why the weekly Sabbath (Saturday) is the Lord's Day, in the Bible

[GDL]

You did not address my double-dog dare, you evaded it, as all appear to do.

That's quite an unexplained accusation. I think I did answer you and fairly comprehensively. As best I understand you, I disagree with your logic,

Use the Scripture and explain your logic with the verse. Maybe I'm missing something you're saying, but your explanations leave much to be desired IMcurrentO. Please explain, professor.

 

[expos4ever]

To be fair to the Sabbath supporters, Romans 3:31 poses a substantial challenge to those of us who believe that Paul believes the Law is retired. I have offered this argument in response:

Romans 3: Paul starts with a treatment of how both Jew and Gentile are sinners even though the Jew was entrusted with "the actual words of God". Next we get this critical transition:

But now apart from the Law the righteousness of God has been revealed,....

Paul is telling us about an unfolding story, and pointing out where we are in that story. And where are we? We are at the point where Jesus enters the story and justification by faith is made clear (as opposed to justification by the Law).

This leads to the obvious question - was the Law a mistake?

Do we then nullify the Law through faith?

Answer: no, we "establish" the Law in the very specific sense that we affirm its fundamental goodness and proper role in the evolving redemption narrative even though the Law has fulfilled its role and can be retired.

This, I suggest, is a plausible way to understand Romans 3:31.

Now then, this is an example of not evading a text! I actually offered a way to interpret what it means to "uphold" or "establish" the law.

I did not post a lengthy treatise that deals with other texts but artfully evaded the challenge of 3:31 itself.

You probably know where this is going: I maintain that no one here who believes the Law applies to all has actually engaged my argument about Romans 3:28-29. Sure, we get arguments based on other texts as to why I must be mistaken.

But if we believe all scripture is correct, there needs to be an explanation of how verses 28 and 29 of chapter 3 in particular fit within the view that the Law governs all.

And, of course, no such argument has been provided. And I suggest we all know why.

 

[expos4ever]

That's quite an unexplained accusation. I think I did answer you and fairly comprehensively. As best I understand you, I disagree with your logic, and I don't think your Canadian (?) golf club analogy is helpful & I'm not going to look it up.

Use the Scripture and explain your logic with the verse. Maybe I'm missing something you're saying, but your explanations leave much to be desired IMcurrentO. Please explain, professor.

Forget the fact that I am using the golf club as an analogy for the moment - let's take it step by step. In serious discussion, you cannot evade legitimate questions. Again:

Suppose I write these words:

For we know that students are admitted from Harvard apart from considerations of membership in the Mount Royal Golf Club; or is Harvard only interested in admitting whites? No, Harvard is interested in all races.

It is a fact, yes a fact, that the logic of these sentences, as a unit, force us to conclude that, even though it is not explicitly stated, that writer of these words believes the Mount Royal Golf club only admits whites!

I double-dog dare anyone to suggest otherwise

This is a perfectly well-posed and clear challenge. You may not like it for the obvious reason that you likely know where this is headed. But that is not an excuse - if you wish to be serious, you must answer the challenge. If you think the analogy to Romans 3:28-29 is invalid, we will address that once you acknowledge what I believe to be irrefutable: the author of my little text must believe that the golf club currently restricts membership to whites.

 

[trophy33]

This is all encompassing, and according to God and Jesus the Sabbath is part of the law, just like the commandment not to have any other gods. Its not one or the other- you break one you break them all James 2:10-12

The common Christian view is not who I serve, I serve God and what He asks of His children.

We are actually warned about some Christians in the bible...

2 Tim 3:5 having a form of godliness but denying its power.

The power is God as He is our Creator and Judge so following Him and what He commands is allowing God to be God, doing what we think is righteous and ignoring what God deemed righteous Psalms 119:172 is denying His power.

Anyway, this is my view of scripture and of God.

Do you burn witches?

If not, why not.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Do you burn witches?

If not, why not.

Where is that in the Ten Commandment? And would the answer to this yes or no make a difference if we are only worship the one True God and no other gods?

 

[trophy33]

Where is that in the Ten Commandment? And would the answer to this yes or no make a difference if we are only worship the one True God and no other gods?

Why are you asking about Ten Commandments?

The verse is "we uphold the law". Do not change the text.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Why are you asking about Ten Commandments?

The verse is "we uphold the law". Do not change the text.

Why do you think the Ten Commandments are not part of the law?

It's what defines sin according to NT scripture...

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” found in the Ten Commandments Exodus 20

And what we will be judged on James 2:10-12

Did Jesus advocate not to keep the commandments of God or to keep them? Matthew 15:3-9

 

[trophy33]

Why do you think the Ten Commandments are not part of the law?

It's what defines sin according to NT scripture...

Romans 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? Certainly not! On the contrary, I would not have known sin except through the law. For I would not have known covetousness unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.”

Did Jesus advocate not to keep the commandment of God or to keep them? Matthew 15:3-9

Why do you think killing witches is not part of the law?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Why do you think killing witches is not part of the law?

In the OC they were under a theocracy, in the NC Jesus is our High Priest and Mediator and Judgement is for Jesus alone 2 Cor 5:10

 

[trophy33]

In the OC they were under a theocracy, in the NC Jesus is our High Priest and Mediator and Judgement is for Jesus alone 2 Cor 5:10

So whenever you are to be consistent and accept your view about law being for us, you make the law to mean only 10 commandments, because you do not like the rest.

Without any objective reason whatsoever.

It would be much more easier for the SDA to simply teach that only the commandments repeated to Christians are for us, but the Sabbath, which is central to your theology because of your extrabiblical sources, would be missing. And so the unending dancing around this "the law is for us, but practically nothing from the law is for us" conversation with SDA members begins.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So whenever you are to be consistent and accept your view about law being for us, you make the law to mean only 10 commandments, because you do not like the rest.

Without any objective reason whatsoever.

It would be much more easier for the SDA to simply teach that only the commandments repeated to Christians are for us, but the Sabbath, which is central to your theology because of your extrabiblical sources, would be missing. And so the unending dancing around this "the law is for us, but practically nothing from the law is for us" conversation with SDA members begins.

The objective reasoning is following scripture and there is no scripture that says we are not to keep the Ten Commandments. I know you keep wanting to separate the Sabbath commandment from the other nine, but God never did, they are all God's Work Exodus 32:16 that He personally engraved in stone that came in a unit of Ten, not nine. Deut 4:13 and Jesus kept these same commandments and told us to as well. John 15:10, John 14:15, Matthew 5:19-30, Matthew 15:3-9, Matthew 19:17-19 as well as the apostles 1 Cor 7:19, James 2:10-12, 1 John 5:3, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14 to name just a few.

 

[trophy33]

No, I am following the scripture and there is no scripture that says we are not to keep the Ten Commandments. I know you keep wanting to separate the Sabbath commandment from the other nine, but God never did, they are all God's Work Exodus 32:16 that He personally engraved in stone that came in a unit of Ten, not nine. Deut 4:13 and Jesus kept these same commandments and told us to as well. John 15:10, John 14:15, Matthew 5:19-30, Matthew 15:3-9, Matthew 19:17-19 as well as the apostles 1 Cor 7:19, James 2:10-12, 1 John 5:3, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14 to name just a few.

And again and again, back to ten commandments, whenever there is the word "law" in the New Testament, always trying to escape the inconsistency of your theology and the laws you do not want to keep.

I am kind of bored of this quite primitive, or even childish tactics of evading the problem, after so many posts about the same topic without any progress forward, so I will let it be for now.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

And again and again, back to ten commandments, whenever there is the word "law" in the New Testament, always trying to escape the inconsistency of your theology and the laws you do not want to keep.

I am kind of bored of this quite primitive, or even childish tactics of evading the problem, after so many posts about the same topic without any progress forward, so I will let it be for now.

Well if you can prove the "law" that we are to keep does not include the Ten Commandments, please feel free to make a biblical argument.

We instead have this....

These are the very words of Jesus at His Second Coming...

Matthew 7:21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

Another scripture right before the revelation of Jesus Christ...so same event and expands on the "law"


Revelation 22:14 Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. 15 But outside are dogs and sorcerers (Breaking commandment #1 Exodus 20:3) and sexually immoral (breaking commandment #7 Exodus 20:14) and murderers (breaking commandment #6 Exodus 20:13) and idolaters (breaking commandment #2 Exodus 20:4-6), and whoever loves and practices a lie (breaking # 9 Exodus 20:16 and breaking all the commandments 1 John 2:3-5).

I know you seem to not like scripture on keeping God's commandments, but what if what you were taught is wrong, that God meant what He said and wants His children to keep His commandments through love and faith, would you rather know now while you have time to change your heart or wait until Jesus comes, when the just will be just and the unjust will still be unjust and it will be too late? Revelation 22:11

 

[trophy33]

Well if you can prove the "law" that we are to keep does not include the Ten Commandments, please feel free to make a biblical argument.

You prove that law means only the ten commandments.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You prove that law means only the ten commandments.

I never said it only includes the ten, but it certainly does not exclude them.

 

[trophy33]

I never said it only includes the ten, but it certainly does not exclude them.

So why do you ignore the rest?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So why do you ignore the rest?

How do you know what I ignore? How does this answer the question that the Ten Commandments are not included in God's law? You seem to keep wanting to throw daggers and I prefer scripture. If you want to talk scripture, please let me know.

 

[trophy33]

How do you know what I ignore? How does this answer the question that the Ten Commandments are not included in God's law? You seem to keep wanting to throw daggers and I prefer scripture. If you want to talk scripture, please let me know.

Do you keep for example this?

"Anyone who steals must certainly make restitution, but if they have nothing, they must be sold to pay for their theft."
Ex 22:3

If now, why not, when you believe the law is for us.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Do you keep for example this?

"Anyone who steals must certainly make restitution, but if they have nothing, they must be sold to pay for their theft."
Ex 22:3

If now, why not, when you believe the law is for us.

Yes, its a good law, which is why I don't steal and if I did, restitution should be made.

Do you know you will not be judged based on what I or others do? We will all be judged the same way and according to scripture by our works and the Ten Commandment James 2:10-12 which is what points out sin Romans 7:7 so we know what not to do.

 

[trophy33]

Yes, its a good law, which is why I don't steal and if I did, restitution should be made.

Do you know you will not be judged based on what I do?

So you are for selling poor thieves?

"Its a good law"? So you judge the laws which are good and which are bad?