Why the weekly Sabbath (Saturday) is the Lord's Day, in the Bible

[SabbathBlessings]

Hi, if you said it's a pattern to follow. Then the Rest must be achieved only when our work is DONE (fully complete) in six days, as the 7th day is a Sabbath rest. Is it possible to do all our works in 6 days? For example if your work is to build houses can you complete the work in 6 days in order to fully Rest on the 7th day?

Hi,

Thanks for the friendly discussion, I appreciate it. Even if we don't agree on scripture, its nice to be able to reason together in a friendly way.

I do think you might be confusing God's Creation- He made the heavens, the earth the seas and all that is in them- in six days Genesis 1 with the Sabbath commandment. No where in the commandment says we are only to rest if our work is finished. Our work is secondary over our time spent with God on His holy Sabbath day. God should be our priority in our life, not labor and works or worldly things. The Sabbath is holy time set aside every seventh day Sabbath Exodus 20:10 to rest in the Lord by not doing our ways but the ways of the Lord, the Sabbath is the day to honor Him according to His very own words. Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13 We can't know someone if we don't spend time with them, which is why the Sabbath is so important, its easy to get caught up with the ways of the world, but God wants us to slow down, take the Sabbath day to remember everything He has created for us without us, that He is our Lord and Savior and we depend on Him for sanctification. Ezekiel 20:12 because we cannot sanctify ourselves.
He gives us rest through His Sabbath, which is meant not just to be literal- rest from labor, but to be spiritual -resting in Him by doing His ways Isaiah 58:13 and in return He blesses us Isaiah 58:14

Yes I agree Bob, the Sabbath was made for man. That day is called "today" for the people of God. The 7th day was specifically for God's Sabbath rest.

There is no scripture that say the Sabbath is "today" this is another popular doctrine not found in scripture that leads people to break one of God's commandments. God did not give Himself a commandment to rest- He showed us the example and rests with us because its spiritual. The law is not an abstract thing that people can just create their own version of it and think they are following God. This is a dangerous teaching that has some serious consequences if we believe Jesus and scripture. Matthew 7:21-23 Revelation 22:15

God did not leave it up to man to write His holy commandments. He loves us so much He personally wrote His law on stone with His own finger for its eternal natural. He personally spoke these laws to the nation of Israel, which is just a name God gave to identify His people. His laws both written and spoken and easy to understand is now written the heart and minds of His New Covenant believers Hebrews 8:10, where there is no Jew or Gentile, just people grafted in through faith. Gal 3:26-28 His people keep His commandments Revelation 14:12 just the way God wrote them because we cannot improve on something that is perfect Psalms 19:7 can cannot improve on God's own works Exodus 32:16

 

[expos4ever]

My answer is that your argument "is with the text"

Rom 3:19 -- "whatever the LAW says - it says to those UNDER THE LAW so that.. EVERY mouth... ALL the WORLD - accountable
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

The logic here is obviously flawed - the problem here is that you assume that the only way one can be deemed to be a sinner is in relation to the Law of Moses.

But surely you are aware of this scripture from Romans 1:

For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not [o]honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their reasonings, and their senseless hearts were darkened

The Law was clearly not around since "the creation of the world" and yet people were still reckoned to be sinners in its absence.

Your response?

1 John 3:4 KJV - 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

You know that this translation represents the minority of translations, yet you continue to use it without acknowledging this. Are you trying to pass this translation off as though there was definitive agreement that it is correct when you know this is not the case?

Most translations, including the highly respected NASB, have something like "sin is lawlessness", with no specificity to the Law of Moses.

 

[BobRyan]

Not compelling - it is easy to explain this without believing that the Gentiles all believed the Sabbath

false. Read the actual text.

13 Now Paul and his companions put out to sea from Paphos and came to Perga in Pamphylia; but John left them and returned to Jerusalem. 14 But going on from Perga, they arrived at Pisidian Antioch, and on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. 15 After the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the synagogue officials sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say it.” 16 Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said,​

​

“Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen:​

13 Now Paul and his companions put out to sea from Paphos and came to Perga in Pamphylia; but John left them and returned to Jerusalem. 14 But going on from Perga, they arrived at Pisidian Antioch, and on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. 15 After the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the synagogue officials sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say it.” 16 Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said,​

​

“Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen:​

There we see Jews and gentiles in the synagogues on Sabbath - but they are not Christian. They are all there hearing "The Law and the Prophets" on Sabbath. And they are not Christians.

Then Paul preaches the Gospel starting in vs 15.

The event ENDS this way -

38 Therefore let it be known to you, brothers, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, 39 and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses. 40 Therefore, see that the thing spoken of in the Prophets does not come upon you:​

​

41 ‘Look, you scoffers, and be astonished, and perish;​

For I am accomplishing a work in your days,​

A work which you will never believe, though someone should describe it to you.’”​

​

42 As Paul and Barnabas were going out, the gentiles repeatedly begged to have these things spoken to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and the God-fearing proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who were speaking to them and urging them to continue in the grace of God.​

AFTER hearing the gospel - the nonChristians nonJews who were already in the synagogue on Sabbath hearing the LAW and the Prophets read as the WORD of God - asked Paul for more Gospel preaching 'The next Sabbath'... instead of "Tomorrow when you and the other Christians with you all meet for worship".

If Paul had told them that only Jews should be meeting on God's Sabbath day - then it does not fit the evidence in that after hearing Paul's teaching it is the NON-Jews that ask for more gospel preaching "The NEXT Sabbath" when we are told that almost "the whole city" of gentiles shows up... and not "on the next day week-day-1 called the Lord's day" or any such thing.

What is more the term "Sabbath" is still the 7th day of the week in this NT text

was still in force. And even if they did believe it was still in force, this does not mean that belief is correct.

You can always speculate anything you wish. But the details in the chapter are much more clear than the somewhat transparent suggestions you are "reaching" for .

 

[BobRyan]

My answer is that your argument "is with the text"

Rom 3:19 -- "whatever the LAW says - it says to those UNDER THE LAW so that.. EVERY mouth... ALL the WORLD - accountable
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

1 John 3:4 KJV - 4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Is totally out of line with the text. You hold it at too great a distance so you can get to that sort of suggestion.

look at the actual text, the actual context...

9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all; for we have already charged that both Jews and Greeks are all under sin; 10 as it is written,

“There is none righteous, not even one;
11 There is none who understands,
There is none who seeks for God;
12 All have turned aside, together they have become useless;
There is none who does good,
There is not even one.”
13 “Their throat is an open grave,
With their tongues they keep deceiving,”
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness”;
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood,
16 Destruction and misery are in their paths,
17 And the path of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

Your posts keep ignoring the details in the actual text of scripture and then substitute in your suggestions. Not very compelling.

Believe as you wish --

Meanwhile - it is no wonder that almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today - in fact for all mankind

The logic here is obviously flawed

That is pretty odd given the clarity of those texts above.

'' - the problem here is that you assume that the only way one can be deemed to be a sinner is in relation to the Law of Moses.

Actually it is that I am reading the text and noting all the details above that you keep skimming over. You skim over them because your POV needs it but as we can see when discussing Rom 3 - it is not logical to skim over the details in Rom 3 if your intent is accuracy in Rom 3.

I don't see how this is even a little bit confusing.

The Law was clearly not around since "the creation of the world"

Indeed God's Law was around since Eden - as even the Bible scholars in almost all Christian denominations in the world affirm

Almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the unit of TEN began in EDEN and is the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today, in fact..for all mankind.

 

[BobRyan]

Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God;

You reply, above, amounts to affirming that the fact that all mouths are shut means that all are under the law.

But this is so obviously incorrect

It is your logic that is flawed when you claim 'all the world' and "every mouth" and "ALL have sinned" - is not a reference to all humanity.

You are free to invent whatever you like - but for the rest of is - this is so clear it is irrefutable.

IN the text Paul says it is only the LAW of God that condemns all the world - Paul points to nothing "else".

As noted before - the arguments against the text are so weak it is no wonder that almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the unit of TEN began in EDEN and is the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today, in fact..for all mankind.

 

[expos4ever]

false. Read the actual text.

13 Now Paul and his companions put out to sea from Paphos and came to Perga in Pamphylia; but John left them and returned to Jerusalem. 14 But going on from Perga, they arrived at Pisidian Antioch, and on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. 15 After the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the synagogue officials sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say it.” 16 Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said,..........​

There we see Jews and gentiles in the synagogues on Sabbath - but they are not Christian. They are all there hearing "The Law and the Prophets" on Sabbath. And they are not Christians.

Where, and please be specific, does this indicate that the Gentiles believed the Sabbath was still in force? Surely you must understand that the Gentiles could believe the Sabbath was no longer in force and yet want to hear preaching even if that preaching were offered on a Sabbath (that they believed they no longer needed to honour)

Sure, all these people went to the synagogue on a Sabbath, but how is it not obvious that they could have believed the Sabbath was not in force, but they still wanted to hear the preaching anyway?

Either way, it does not matter. As I stated, even if the Gentiles did believe the Sabbath was still in force, all this shows is that they believed this to be the case - they could have been mistaken.

Then Paul preaches the Gospel starting in vs 15.

The event ENDS this way -

38 Therefore let it be known to you, brothers, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, 39 and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses.​

You think this helps your case? Posting a text where Paul refers to the fact that Jesus frees from something that the Law - which you ardently defend - could not?

Granted, this does not prove that Paul does not believe the Law is no longer in force - perhaps, as I believe you believe, Paul thinks we still need to follow the Law and that we have only been freed from the penalty for not doing so.

But it is at least suggestive that Paul thinks the law has been entirely done away with.

40 Therefore, see that the thing spoken of in the Prophets does not come upon you:​

​

41 ‘Look, you scoffers, and be astonished, and perish;​

For I am accomplishing a work in your days,​

A work which you will never believe, though someone should describe it to you.’”​

​

42 As Paul and Barnabas were going out, the gentiles repeatedly begged to have these things spoken to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and the God-fearing proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who were speaking to them and urging them to continue in the grace of God.​

AFTER hearing the gospel - the nonChristians nonJews who were already in the synagogue on Sabbath hearing the LAW and the Prophets read as the WORD of God - asked Paul for more Gospel preaching 'The next Sabbath'... instead of "Tomorrow when you and the other Christians with you all meet for worship".

None of this has any evidentiary value at all in establishing that the Sabbath remained in effect.

How is it not obvious that the fact that people continued to observe the Sabbath does not mean they were right to do so?

Heck, I could use your reasoning against your own position, declaring that because most Christians no longer observe the Sabbath means it is no longer in force. You would, rightly, howl in protest that this means nothing.

Bottom Line: where is the evidence in Acts 13 that the Sabbath is still factually in force - that God still wants it to be observed? Are you suggesting that the fact that Jews continued to observe it on the Sabbath means it must still be in force? Surely not. Are you suggesting that since Gentiles also poured into the synagogues on a Sabbath means that God necessarily approved? Surely not.

So what is your actual argument?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Sabbath blessings did you take note of verses 8? God through Isaiah says He will gather others to him beside those those who are gathered unto him. That was not fulfilled in Isaiah's time. It was not fulfilled until after Jesus' Asension through the ministry of Paul..

Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.
Isa 56:8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

Hi Him,

Thanks for the friendly discussion, I appreciate it. Yes I did take in account of Isaiah 56:8 and I am a bit surprised you think God's Sabbath and covenant is fulfilled, I see v 56;7 - 8 partially fulfilled but not fully

Isaiah 56:6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,
And to love the name of the Lord, to be His servants—
Everyone who keeps from defiling the Sabbath,
And holds fast My covenant—
7 Even them I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices
Will be accepted on My altar;
For My house shall be called a house of prayer for all nations.”
8 The Lord God, who gathers the outcasts of Israel, says,
“Yet I will gather to him
Others besides those who are gathered to him.”

Isaiah 56:6 “Also the sons of the foreigner
Who join themselves to the Lord, to serve Him,

There is a part of the temple called gentiles court where they could not fully come into the temple only Jews. This scripture is an invitation to Gentiles (foreigners) into God's Temple. What many people confuse after the destruction of the earthy temple that everything ended, the Ten Commandments which includes the Sabbath commandments like @myst33 indicated but what did Jesus say? “We heard Him say, ‘I will destroy this temple made with hands, and within three days I will build another made without hands.’ ”Mark 14:58 All people are invited to this Temple, which is the body of Christ and are made up of His people and as scripture says also includes foreigners (gentiles) and they are invited to keep the Sabbath and God's covenant (Ten Commandments). Like Jesus our bodies are also temples 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 and the Lord does not want to defile our temples and one way to do that is by defiling the Sabbath Isaiah 56:6 Ezekiel 20:13

The earthy temple was an exact replica of God's heavenly Temple Hebrews 8:5 Revelation 11:19 where God dwells , what was in the earthy temple- the altar- burnt sacrifices for the forgiveness of sins, the showbread, leaver and all the articles of furniture which was very literal during the time of the earthy sanctuary, now have spiritual meanings and if we look to scripture, it defines what these meaning are. For example, Isaiah 56:7 Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices Will be accepted on My altar This is not referring to the earthy temple Hebrews 9:24 so what does it mean....

Rev 5:8 Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.

Jesus is the Mediator of God's New Covenant promise interceding on our behalf who accepts our prayers on His altar for the forgiveness of sin (breaking Gods law) when we have a change of heart and repent and turn from sin and hold fast His covenant. Isaiah 56:6

The gathering the outcasts of Israel will continue until the Second Coming of Jesus Christ ,who will bring His people to His holy mountain, all people are invited into His covenant promise, Jew and Gentiles, He writes His laws in the hearts and minds of His people through faith and through His Spirit if we seek Him in Truth and Spirit He will give us the ability to hold fast His covenant and His Sabbath and be brought to His holy mountain where His Sabbath covenant continues for all flesh from one Sabbath to another Isaiah 66:23 but it requires our cooperation with His Spirit.

 

[boughtwithaprice]

True - He rested in the tomb on the 7th day and rose from the grave on the first day. Most Christians do agree with that.


Well not according to the Bible

I do prefer sticking with the topic.


The Bible says that when we come to celebrate communion, the Lord's Supper -- we declare Christ's death until He comes.

1 Cor 11:24

“This is My body, which is for you; do this in remembrance of Me.” 25 In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.” 26 For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes.​

Ok Bob, you mean well, but it appears that you have invincible ignorance, in the you cannot be conVINCed. You make yourself and your association the sole arbiters of scripture, but you were given no authority to do that.
The Bible is pretty plain, all of the apostles were scattered and no one believed. Jesus chastised them after the resurrection because of their unbelief. Mary was given the prophecy by Simeon according to the Bible and she knew what was going to happen. She spent 30 years with our Lord, the creator of the universe, and you don’t think that they ever talked just because it is not specifically mentioned in scripture? It is very easily deduced from scripture and Church history.

We proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes, but we announce the Good News, He is Risen and risen indeed. Pentecost shows that the Church was founded on the first day of the week.


I have seriously considered the claims of SDA. You claim sola scriptura but there are so many things that are just glossed over
Jesus says that it is not what goes into man that makes him unclean, but what comes out of him, yet SDA teaches the Jewish dietary laws allegedly so people can live longer. That is not the goal of Christianity, the goal of Christianity is to know God and love Him forever. A long or short life does not matter. You scare people into obeying you by telling them that when the die, they will be in a coma until the resurrection, so all the joy of the Lord you need to receive now and concentrate on this life. The Bible says the man with weak faith eats only vegetables
The Bible does not teach that Satan is our scape goat, but Ellen white does. You come up with an explanation but fail to note that it is not taught in the Bible.
Jesus tells us it is not for us to know the times or the seasons which the Father has fixed by his own authority, yet your assembly is fixated on prophesy and claim to know times and seasons and loves to say that the Bible has condemned the Catholic Church. 1260 days refers to something Catholic? That is your interpretation. It is just as plausible that Our Lady lived three years after the resurrection prior to her assumption. You say that’s not in the Bible, well neither are the things you say
You fall all over yourself to believe the musings of a mercury poisoned woman, prone to seizures
Yet a woman that bore our Savior and was His mother according to Scripture is to be not looked upon as favorably. She is half of the hypostatic union, the vessel by whom God became man. Don’t you think Mary deserves more respect than you give her? She is not an idol. That is a spiritual slur against those that do not agree with you.
It just doesn’t add up. We have the scriptures and 2000 years of Church history. Why should we believe you or your interpretation?

I know you will have all sorts of explanation and supposed reasons for your thinking, but you would have to admit that your reasons are not sola scriptura, but your personal interpretation of those scriptures

I pray for you every day, may you come to the full knowledge of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ

 

[expos4ever]

You claim sola scriptura but there are so many things that are just glossed over

Regardless of who the offending poster is, or what denomination they represent, you make a good point about the "glossing over".

I advise all interested in responsible debate to watch for the telltale signs that something is deeply amiss in what someone is saying.

A classic pattern is this: I (or someone) posts a text, call it "X," and asks for account of how the other person (the "opponent" if you will) accommodates X within their position.

What often happens is that the opponent will post a lot of other things that are, in fact, true but that do not actually engage text X - the requested, and legitimately so, explanation for how they can accommodate X within their overall position.

Hence, to use, your terminology - "glossing over".

 

[Leaf473]

Ok Bob, you mean well, but it appears that you have invincible ignorance, in the you cannot be conVINCed. You make yourself and your association the sole arbiters of scripture, but you were given no authority to do that.
The Bible is pretty plain, all of the apostles were scattered and no one believed. Jesus chastised them after the resurrection because of their unbelief. Mary was given the prophecy by Simeon according to the Bible and she knew what was going to happen. She spent 30 years with our Lord, the creator of the universe, and you don’t think that they ever talked just because it is not specifically mentioned in scripture? It is very easily deduced from scripture and Church history.

We proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes, but we announce the Good News, He is Risen and risen indeed. Pentecost shows that the Church was founded on the first day of the week.


I have seriously considered the claims of SDA. You claim sola scriptura but there are so many things that are just glossed over
Jesus says that it is not what goes into man that makes him unclean, but what comes out of him, yet SDA teaches the Jewish dietary laws allegedly so people can live longer. That is not the goal of Christianity, the goal of Christianity is to know God and love Him forever. A long or short life does not matter. You scare people into obeying you by telling them that when the die, they will be in a coma until the resurrection, so all the joy of the Lord you need to receive now and concentrate on this life. The Bible says the man with weak faith eats only vegetables
The Bible does not teach that Satan is our scape goat, but Ellen white does. You come up with an explanation but fail to note that it is not taught in the Bible.
Jesus tells us it is not for us to know the times or the seasons which the Father has fixed by his own authority, yet your assembly is fixated on prophesy and claim to know times and seasons and loves to say that the Bible has condemned the Catholic Church. 1260 days refers to something Catholic? That is your interpretation. It is just as plausible that Our Lady lived three years after the resurrection prior to her assumption. You say that’s not in the Bible, well neither are the things you say
You fall all over yourself to believe the musings of a mercury poisoned woman, prone to seizures
Yet a woman that bore our Savior and was His mother according to Scripture is to be not looked upon as favorably. She is half of the hypostatic union, the vessel by whom God became man. Don’t you think Mary deserves more respect than you give her? She is not an idol. That is a spiritual slur against those that do not agree with you.
It just doesn’t add up. We have the scriptures and 2000 years of Church history. Why should we believe you or your interpretation?

I know you will have all sorts of explanation and supposed reasons for your thinking, but you would have to admit that your reasons are not sola scriptura, but your personal interpretation of those scriptures

I pray for you every day, may you come to the full knowledge of Our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ

Hi! I'm not Catholic myself, but I have some devout Catholic friends.

I wanted to note a difficulty in using only scripture when talking about the Sabbath and the law. If we set aside all Church tradition, then it's up to each individual to decide what is scripture and what isn't.

Is there a question about which day to worship on? The Epistle of Barnabas says worship on the 8th day, basically Sunday.

 

[BobRyan]

He made the heavens, the earth the seas and all that is in them- in six days Genesis 1 with the Sabbath commandment. No where in the commandment says we are only to rest if our work is finished.

True. IT does not say "all your projects must be fully complete within six days - then when everything is done you can rest".. That would be a huge bending of the text.

Good point.

The Sabbath is holy time set aside every seventh day Sabbath Exodus 20:10 to rest in the Lord by not doing our ways but the ways of the Lord, the Sabbath is the day to honor Him according to His very own words. Exodus 20:8-11

True - so for example Israel could engage in projects such as building the temple - that took many years to complete - and still rest every seventh day of the week on Sabbath.

A very obvious detail affirmed by both Jews and Christians.

This is not the hard part of the topic.

 

[BobRyan]

Hi! I'm not Catholic myself, but I have some devout Catholic friends.

I wanted to note a difficulty in using only scripture when talking about the Sabbath

We prefer the Word of God on this topic. I realize some folks would wish to go to some other text, and they have free will. They can do as they wish..

 

[BobRyan]

Mary was given the prophecy by Simeon according to the Bible and she knew what was going to happen. She spent 30 years with our Lord, the creator of the universe, and you don’t think that they ever talked just because it is not specifically mentioned in scripture?

I have no idea what you are talking about . I never said that nothing ever happened if it is not in scripture. But this thread title is on the Sabbath and the Lord's day reference in Rev 1:10.

As it turns out - that doctrine is fully contained in the Bible and we can trust the Word of God for our doctrine.

I have seriously considered the claims of SDA. You claim sola scriptura but there are so many things that are just glossed over
Jesus says that it is not what goes into man that makes him unclean, but what comes out of him, yet SDA teaches the Jewish dietary laws

1. That is a different topic from this thread.
2. Jesus makes that statement in places like Mark 7:6-12 where He flat out slams the traditions of man in the one-true nation-church system of His day setup by God at Sinai.
3. Jesus is debating with the Jews in that context - about eating bread with non-sprinkled hands. They were debating a man-made ceremony of washing sins from hands after coming from the market place. Jesus simply said that those man-made-traditions are worthless. In that chapter Jesus said that the bigger issue is where their made-up traditions actually set aside one of the TEN Commandments "Honor your father and mother".
4. Not only was His point on the subject of eating bread with hands not-baptized missed in your post... you also miss Peter's own statement on this in Acts 10. When told to eat some rats/cats etc Peter said in Acts 10 that he had NEVER eating rats or cats . He is told to do it three times in a vision and then three times Peter says no. Later Peter explains that vision three times saying that it meant "call no MAN unclean".

All great Bible teaching - but not the topic of this thread.

That is not the goal of Christianity, the goal of Christianity is to know God and love Him forever.

"This IS the LOVE of God that we KEEP His Commandments" 1 John 5:3 -- even the Catholic church affirms this basic Christian concept.
"If you LOVE Me KEEP My Commandments" John 14:15
"LOVE Me and KEEP My Commandments" Ex 20:6

1 John 2: 3 By this we know that we have come to know Him, if we keep His commandments. 4 The one who says, “I have come to know Him,” and does not keep His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him;

To my knowledge even the Catholic Church does not dispute this basic Bible teaching.

The Bible does not teach that Satan is our scape goat,

In Lev 16 the Bible does not say the scape goat is a sin offering at all. All sin offerings are slain and are substitutionary atoning sacrifices -- the scape goat in Lev 16 is never slain -- is not a substitute. And no text says "Jesus is our scapegoat" .

Rather what we have is 1 John 2:2 "He is the ATONING Sacrifice for OUR sins and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the whole world"

Also not the topic of this thread.

 

[BobRyan]

expos4ever said:

Not compelling - it is easy to explain this without believing that the Gentiles all believed the Sabbath

false. Read the actual text.

13 Now Paul and his companions put out to sea from Paphos and came to Perga in Pamphylia; but John left them and returned to Jerusalem. 14 But going on from Perga, they arrived at Pisidian Antioch, and on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. 15 After the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the synagogue officials sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say it.” 16 Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said,​

​

“Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen:​

13 Now Paul and his companions put out to sea from Paphos and came to Perga in Pamphylia; but John left them and returned to Jerusalem. 14 But going on from Perga, they arrived at Pisidian Antioch, and on the Sabbath day they went into the synagogue and sat down. 15 After the reading of the Law and the Prophets, the synagogue officials sent word to them, saying, “Brothers, if you have any word of exhortation for the people, say it.” 16 Paul stood up, and motioning with his hand said,​

​

“Men of Israel, and you who fear God, listen:​

There we see Jews and gentiles in the synagogues on Sabbath - but they are not Christian. They are all there hearing "The Law and the Prophets" on Sabbath. And they are not Christians.

Then Paul preaches the Gospel starting in vs 15.

The event ENDS this way -

38 Therefore let it be known to you, brothers, that through Him forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, 39 and through Him everyone who believes is freed from all things, from which you could not be freed through the Law of Moses. 40 Therefore, see that the thing spoken of in the Prophets does not come upon you:​

​

41 ‘Look, you scoffers, and be astonished, and perish;​

For I am accomplishing a work in your days,​

A work which you will never believe, though someone should describe it to you.’”​

​

42 As Paul and Barnabas were going out, the gentiles repeatedly begged to have these things spoken to them the next Sabbath. 43 Now when the meeting of the synagogue had broken up, many of the Jews and the God-fearing proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas, who were speaking to them and urging them to continue in the grace of God.​

AFTER hearing the gospel - the nonChristians nonJews who were already in the synagogue on Sabbath hearing the LAW and the Prophets read as the WORD of God - asked Paul for more Gospel preaching 'The next Sabbath'... instead of "Tomorrow when you and the other Christians with you all meet for worship".

If Paul had told them that only Jews should be meeting on God's Sabbath day - then it does not fit the evidence in that after hearing Paul's teaching it is the NON-Jews that ask for more gospel preaching "The NEXT Sabbath" when we are told that almost "the whole city" of gentiles shows up... and not "on the next day week-day-1 called the Lord's day" or any such thing.

What is more the term "Sabbath" is still the 7th day of the week in this NT text


You can always speculate anything you wish. But the details in the chapter are much more clear than the somewhat transparent suggestions you are "reaching" for .

By completely ignoring the text of Acts 13 - you free yourself to make suggestions not at all supported by text we are talking about.

Are we simply "not supposed to notice"???

Where, and please be specific, does this indicate that the Gentiles believed the Sabbath

Start by reading the actual chapter and paying attention to the words highlighted, underlined, bolded , in red ...
You know -- the easy part of this that all the other readers can easily see in the post.

was still in force? Surely you must understand that the Gentiles could believe the Sabbath was no longer in force and yet want to hear preaching even if that preaching were offered on a Sabbath

Your story does not fit the text... go back and read the text. The rest of us can do it and you can to. That way we can discuss what it actually says.

With Bible details so obvious - is it any wonder that almost every Christian denomination on Earth affirms the continued *"unit of TEN" for Christians today

 

[Leaf473]

We prefer the Word of God on this topic. I realize some folks would wish to go to some other text, and they have free will. They can do as they wish..

Without using any tradition, how does a person come to the knowledge of what is the word of God?

 

[pasifika]

Hi,

Thanks for the friendly discussion, I appreciate it. Even if we don't agree on scripture, its nice to be able to reason together in a friendly way.

I do think you might be confusing God's Creation- He made the heavens, the earth the seas and all that is in them- in six days Genesis 1 with the Sabbath commandment. No where in the commandment says we are only to rest if our work is finished. Our work is secondary over our time spent with God on His holy Sabbath day. God should be our priority in our life, not labor and works or worldly things. The Sabbath is holy time set aside every seventh day Sabbath Exodus 20:10 to rest in the Lord by not doing our ways but the ways of the Lord, the Sabbath is the day to honor Him according to His very own words. Exodus 20:8-11, Isaiah 58:13 We can't know someone if we don't spend time with them, which is why the Sabbath is so important, its easy to get caught up with the ways of the world, but God wants us to slow down, take the Sabbath day to remember everything He has created for us without us, that He is our Lord and Savior and we depend on Him for sanctification. Ezekiel 20:12 because we cannot sanctify ourselves.
He gives us rest through His Sabbath, which is meant not just to be literal- rest from labor, but to be spiritual -resting in Him by doing His ways Isaiah 58:13 and in return He blesses us Isaiah 58:14



There is no scripture that say the Sabbath is "today" this is another popular doctrine not found in scripture that leads people to break one of God's commandments. God did not give Himself a commandment to rest- He showed us the example and rests with us because its spiritual. The law is not an abstract thing that people can just create their own version of it and think they are following God. This is a dangerous teaching that has some serious consequences if we believe Jesus and scripture. Matthew 7:21-23 Revelation 22:15

God did not leave it up to man to write His holy commandments. He loves us so much He personally wrote His law on stone with His own finger for its eternal natural. He personally spoke these laws to the nation of Israel, which is just a name God gave to identify His people. His laws both written and spoken and easy to understand is now written the heart and minds of His New Covenant believers Hebrews 8:10, where there is no Jew or Gentile, just people grafted in through faith. Gal 3:26-28 His people keep His commandments Revelation 14:12 just the way God wrote them because we cannot improve on something that is perfect Psalms 19:7 can cannot improve on God's own works Exodus 32:16

Hi SB, also appreciate your time on this discussion.

reading your post i can conclude that you see the rest in "creation" as not a permanent rest (only once) but temporary (every 7th day week after week etc).

Also, you see the Sabbath rest as not relative to whether we finished our work or not as long as it on the 7th day which means we rested.

So, let see how the Sabbath rest was used in relation to God's work in Genesis.

Genesis 2:2.."By the 7th day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work."

(So, "rested" comes Only when the work is "finished")

So, using the Genesis account on Gods work and rest to understand this verse which with relates to us.


Hebrews 4:10..."For anyone who enters God's rest (Sabbath rest) also rests from their works, just as God did from His."

(Our works must also be a finished work just as God did from His as in creation).

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hi SB, also appreciate your time on this discussion.

reading your post i can conclude that you see the rest in "creation" as not a permanent rest (only once) but temporary (every 7th day week after week etc).

Also, you see the Sabbath rest as not relative to whether we finished our work or not as long as it on the 7th day which means we rested.

So, let see how the Sabbath rest was used in relation to God's work in Genesis.

Genesis 2:2.."By the 7th day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work."

(So, "rested" comes Only when the work is "finished")

So, using the Genesis account on Gods work and rest to understand this verse which with relates to us.


Hebrews 4:10..."For anyone who enters God's rest (Sabbath rest) also rests from their works, just as God did from His."

(Our works must also be a finished work just as God did from His as in creation).

You are actually reading the word “finished work” into Hebrews 4:10, thats not there.

The example is to rest from work as God did from His, which is reveled in the very passage as the seventh day Hebrews 4:4. We are not God, so we did not finish our work at Creation, God did, thats why we need Him, He alone created everything for us without us and only He alone can sanctify us Ezekiel 20:12 which is done through the Truth of His Word John 17:17 which we are called to be doers of James 1:22

In the Sabbath commandment, He tells us to do our works and labors in six days Exodus 20:9 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord Exodus 20:10 which we are to remember to keep it holy Exodus 20:8 and rest from our works Exodus 20:9-11 the day to honor Him on His holy day thus saith the Lord. Isaiah 58:13

The Sabbath commandment is really not that hard, but yet people try to make it as such, for some strange reason. If God decided to make holy and sanctify the third day who are we to question Him, especially when it comes to a commandment personally written and spoken by God. He choose the seventh day and made that point abundantly clear. Exodus 20:10 As His children and as the song goes, we need to trust and obey.

 

[pasifika]

You are actually reading the word “finished work” into Hebrews 4:10, thats not there.

The example is to rest from work as God did from His, which is reveled in the very passage as the seventh day Hebrews 4:4. We are not God, so we did not finish our work at Creation, God did, thats why we need Him, He alone created everything for us without us and only He alone can sanctify us Ezekiel 20:12 which is done through the Truth of His Word John 17:17 which we are called to be doers of James 1:22

In the Sabbath commandment, He tells us to do our works and labors in six days Exodus 20:9 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord Exodus 20:10 which we are to remember to keep it holy Exodus 20:8 and rest from our works Exodus 20:9-11 the day to honor Him on His holy day thus saith the Lord. Isaiah 58:13

The Sabbath commandment is really not that hard, but yet people try to make it as such, for some strange reason. If God decided to make holy and sanctify the third day who are we to question Him, especially when it comes to a commandment personally written and spoken by God.

Hi SB, exactly! the example is to rest from our works just as He did from His...

Hebrew 4:10 use the creation account in which God rest from the work he had been doing.

So, what do you think our work would be if it not the same as God? Is it the same as in the 4th commandment? Or a different kind of work ie "to believe in the Gospel?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Hi SB, exactly! the example is to rest from our works just as He did from His...

We are not God, not capable of Creation, that God’s work alone and you seem to be confusing God’s work with God’s commandment. Are you claiming you can make heaven and earth and everything that is in it?

When did God rest from His work? Scripture tells us if we allow it to interpret itself . . .

Hebrews 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;

Same as the commandment for us to obey because we are not God.

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

"So, Did God finished His work at creation hence why He rested? Gen 2:2,3

The scripture explains itself…


Genesis 2:1-3 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it (set the seventh day aside for holy use), because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

God again spoke of the seventh day in the Sabbath commandment using the same verbiage, the seventh day is set aside for holy use and God asked us to "remember" pointing us back to Creation as it is a weekly memorial on the Sabbath day for us to remember everything God made for us without us. Creation was His works and so are the Ten Commandments Exodus 32:16 We remember Him as our Creator on the Sabbath because He is the God of Creation but is also the same God of Judgement Revelation 14:7 and only He can sanctify us Ezekiel 20:12 and He does through the Truth of His Word. John 17:17 Too many people think they can sanctify themselves through their works or righteousness, but only God and His works are sanctifying and righteous and all of His commandments are righteous Psalms 119:172 meaning the right way God wants His children to live because what He asks of us, is for our own good if we Trust and believe in Him.

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

We rest from our works to keep the Sabbath day holy Exodus 20:8-11

For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His, on the seventh day Hebrews 4:4

 

[pasifika]

We are not God, not capable of Creation, that God’s work alone and you are confusing God’s work with God’s commandment. Are you claiming you can make heaven and earth and everything that is in it?

When did God rest from His work? Scripture tells us if we allow it to interpret itself . . .

Hebrews 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;

Same as the commandment for us to obey because we are not God.

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.



The scripture explains itself…


Genesis 2:1-3 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it (set the seventh day aside for holy use), because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

God again spoke of the seventh day in the Sabbath commandment using the same verbiage, the seventh day is set aside for holy use and God asked us to "remember" pointing us back to Creation as it is a weekly memorial on the Sabbath day for us to remember everything God made for us without us. Creation was His works and so are the Ten Commandments Exodus 32:16 We remember Him as our Creator on the Sabbath because He is the God of Creation but is also the same God of Judgement Revelation 14:7 and only He can sanctify us Ezekiel 20:12 and He does through the Truth of His Word. John 17:17 Too many people think they can sanctify themselves through their works or righteousness, but only God and His works are sanctifying and righteous and all of His commandments are righteous Psalms 119:172 meaning the right way God wants His children to live because what He asks of us, is for our own good if we Trust and believe in Him.

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

We rest from our works to keep the Sabbath day holy Exodus 20:8-11, and we enter His rest when we cease from our works as God did from His Hebrews 4:10 on the seventh day Hebrews 4:4, Genesis 2:1-3,

I agree, our work is not be the same as God. As you've said because we are not God. Thank you,

So, If our work is not the same as God, could that mean our day of rest would not be the same as His i.e not the 7th day but "another day" (thats what Hebrews 4 is trying to convey)?