Jewish Israel is a misnomer

[keras]

There are some who think that there is no distinction among the peoples of the world, they are all simply descendants of Adam. The idea of the ubiquity of all humans.

However, God did choose a man, Abraham; to be the father of peoples who would be God’s special people to be His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and to display His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16

Matthew 8:11-12 Many, I tell you; will come from the East and the West and sit with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob at the feast of the Kingdom. But those who were born into the Kingdom, will be thrown out into the dark, where there will be wailing and extreme sadness for what they have lost.

These Words of Jesus plainly show that there is a people who are part of the Kingdom of God by descent, but they can lose that advantage by their own rejection of Jesus and failure to keep the Commandments. This was spoken to a Roman Centurion, so it applies to Gentile and Jewish peoples.

We know that the Jewish people only represent the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin. The Jews themselves admit this truth.
The other 10 tribes remain scattered among the nations, Deuteronomy 4:27-28, John 7:35, serving their decreed time of exile. Ezekiel 4:4-5, multiplied by; Leviticus 26:18 = 2730 years. This time of exile is nearly finished and those people who have accepted the Salvation offered by Jesus, Matthew 15:24, will be Redeemed, restored and forgiven for their iniquities.

They ARE the people who comprise the ‘nation’, who bear the proper fruit; Matthew 21:43, all faithful Christians, now belonging to many diverse nationalities and speaking many different languages.
They will all come together, as prophesied; Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Jeremiah 50:4-7, +, into the holy Land, all the area given to Abraham, but never yet fully occupied by the Lord’s people.

John sees them in his vision of the future; of Revelation 7:1-14, when the Lord will select 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel to go out and proclaim the coming Kingdom. Isaiah 66:19, Revelation 14:1-7

Malachi 3:6-7 I the Lord do not change and you, [my People] have not ceased to be the children of Jacob. Ever since the time of your forefathers, you have been wayward and have not kept My Laws. But if you return to Me, I shall return to you.

We Christian believers ARE the Lord’s people., who have returned to Him in faith.
WE must keep our trust in His protection through all that must happen and prove ourselves to be worthy when Jesus Returns, to be His priests and co-rulers. Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 66:21

Isaiah 49:8-13 says that the tribes of Israel will be restored and the Lord’s Salvation will reach to the ends of the earth. The Salvation has reached us and now we await the restoration back into our heritage. Ephesians 3:6, Romans 8:16-18, Psalms 37:29, where we will be called the children of the Living God. Romans 9:24-26

Don't reject the math of dispersion and the genetic ubiquity of all humans.
What is the truth, however is that God does know who the descendants of the people He originally chose to be His witnesses to the world. How He does that is told to us in Galatians 3:26-29 and Ephesians 2:11-18

Isaiah 14:1 The Lord will show compassion for Jacob and will once again make Israel His choice.... and; The Lord will gather Israel for the second time. Isaiah 11:11-12
Jacob, Israel; the father of the 12 tribes, far more than just the Jews.

Isaiah 65:8-16...as there is juice in a cluster of grapes....I will give descendants to Jacob and to Judah; heirs who will possess My holy Land...those who serve Me will live there. But you who forsake the Lord......I shall destine you for the Sword, they will not enter the Land. Ezekiel 20:34-38
There are, in fact over 160 verses in the Bible that tell us about God's plans for His people, a people who don't know their ancestry, but have come back to God through the Way given to us by Jesus.


Those who claim to be Israel and live in the Jewish State of Israel, are mainly not true Israelites as their known, recent ancestry and their rejection of Jesus precludes it.
Jesus' Words prove it: Luke 19:27, Revelation 3:9 and Paul says in Romans 2:26 that the real Jew is one who is circumcised of the heart.

 

[keras]

Who are the legitimate heirs of God’s promises? It cannot be just those who claim to be descendants of Jacob, such as the citizens of the modern State of Israel, or the many people groups who falsely claim they are the ‘lost tribes’, etc.

The true Israelites of God are those individuals who meet the Covenant conditions, who by belief in God and in their moral and ethical behaviour, prove they belong to Him. 1 Peter 2:9-10

It was always possible for foreigners to become an Israelite, therefore parentage and actual descent is irrelevant:
Leviticus 19:33-34…foreigners are to be treated as native born among you…..

Isaiah 56:1-8….foreigners who give their allegiance to Me will be acceptable in My House of Prayer…..I shall add them to those who are already gathered.
Jesus said: Other sheep I must gather….John 19:16 and the Apostles made it clear that it is only by righteousness and faith that anyone is accepted into the House of Israel. Romans 9:6-9, Galatians 3:26-29, Ephesians 2:11-18

So to determine who qualifies as an Israelite person of God, we know:

1/ They cannot be determined by natural descent from Abraham, or more specifically, from Jacob. Nobody today, has proof of ancestry back to Abraham .

2/ They cannot become an Israelite by conversion to Judaism.

3/ Any person can become an Israelite of God by faith in Him, obedience to His Laws and the acceptance of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. John 3:16-17

Jesus is the ‘root and tree trunk’ of Israel. Paul said that the promises made to Abraham were to one Person and they are all ‘yes’ in Christ. Galatians 3:16, 2 Cor. 1:20
So now all we Christians, in Christ as His friends and working with Him, are now the branches of the ‘olive tree’ of the true Israel.

Jews have been cut off, but can be grafted back, as individual Christian believers. Bible prophecy proves that only a remnant will do that. Ezekiel 6:1-14, Zechariah 13:7-9, Romans 9:27
WE Christians are all true born again people from every tribe, race, nation and language. Romans 2:28-29, Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 56:1-8

This truth that: all righteous Christians are the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16, destroys the false ‘rapture to heaven’ theory. Jewish Israel have been broken off from the Olive Tree and can only be grafted back, by having Christian faith.
The prophesies about Judah, the Jewish people, are clear: only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 6:13, Luke 19:27. Romans 9:27 They have set up their own religion and refuse to acknowledge Jesus. Romans 10:1-4

It will be all the true, righteous Christian people that will inherit the holy Land and they are the people who will display God’s glory and be His witnesses to the nations, in the last few years before Jesus Returns. Ezekiel 39:21-29, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Isaiah 49:8-13, Ephesians 1:11, Romans 9:24-26

 

[dfw69]

This truth that: all righteous Christians are the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16, destroys the false ‘rapture to heaven’ theory. Jewish Israel have been broken off from the Olive Tree and can only be grafted back, by having Christian faith.
The prophesies about Judah, the Jewish people, are clear: only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 6:13, Luke 19:27. Romans 9:27 They have set up their own religion and refuse to acknowledge Jesus. Romans 10:1-4

This is where you are incorrect Keras because you cannot account for both events happening in human history….

The rapture takes place when He comes in the sky for the first born who walk after the spiritual things and not after the carnal things and then the gathering of Saint takes place to Jerusalem for the saints who keep the commandments of God and testifying of Jesus coming kingdom. This takes place when He returns to claim His kingdom and put down all other human governments

From what I see in the prophetic scriptures no Saint in Christ will ever live in Jerusalem until He returns …

The only thing that will come out of Jerusalem for the saints is persecution. They have an antichrist spirit and accuse saints of being lawless and anti semetic
They teach to believe Jesus will sit on the throne of David is blasphemous and punishable by death

If you expect to live in Jerusalem anytime soon you can forget about it cause it’s not going to happen in this day and age

But Jesus will eventually return for Israel at the appointed time to gather His elect.. His sheep ..His wheat ..

 

[keras]

From what I see in the prophetic scriptures no Saint in Christ will ever live in Jerusalem until He returns …

Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7 both show the holy people of God are present in Jerusalem when the 'beast' takes world control.
Is it your belief that the Christian peoples are not God's holy People?

If you think those scriptures apply to Jews only, then show when the Jews become converted BEFORE Jesus Returns.
The fact is that according to the false 'rapture to heaven' theory, the Jews have to pass thru the Great Tribulation of the final 3 1/2 years and at the end, they at last accept their Messiah Jesus.
Which is sheer nonsense and conflicts with many Prophesies that tell of the virtual demise of the House of Judah.

But Jesus will eventually return for Israel at the appointed time to gather His elect.. His sheep ..His wheat

This displays your confused errors. We Christians are His 'sheep', John 10:1-27 and we are finally gathered to Him when He Returns. Matthew 24:30-31

 

[dfw69]

Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7 both show the holy people of God are present in Jerusalem when the 'beast' takes world control.

Present? Yes, but living there? No ..
Neither scripture revealed the saints living in Jerusalem and by saints I mean those that keep the commandments of God but testifying of Jesus. These particular saints are being killed off by mystery babylon

These saints in the scriptures you mentioned however , when the prophecy is being fulfilled by the AC appearance , could easily be newly converted saints.

The appearance of 144000 and their witness as well as the 2 prophets could influence their conversions

Plus the idol of the AC in the temple does not help the AC cause to rule over the Israelites and all the end time signs will make an impact on their faith

Is it your belief that the Christian peoples are not God's holy People?

It is my belief that the whole house of Israel will know that Jesus is the true messiah in the end and they will eventually receive Him as such and will behold His return as prophecied

But if your asking me if I believe the church and the tribulation saints are two different classes? Yes for they indeed have 2 different beliefs systems and walk 2 different paths

If your asking me if I believe the church is Israel? No I have not come to that conclusion

The church is the body of Christ
In The church there is no Jew or gentile
There is no law
There is freedom
The church is a new creation
The church are citizens of heaven
The church are firstborn of new Jerusalem
The church are the adopted children of God
The church is the barley harvest
The church will be transformed into eternity beings

The saints are the elect of God
The saints are Israelites
The saints keep the commandments of God and testify of Jesus
The saints seek a place in earthly Jerusalem
The saints will reign over the 12 tribes of Israel
They Seek the kingdom of David
They Seek the kingdom of messiah
The saints are the wheat harvest
The saints are the sheep that hear his voice and need a shepherd to lead them

I don’t believe the church is called to become Israel . As if Israel according to the flesh is what’s important. No ..We are called to become the children of God. We are called to come together in Christ. We are called to become one body of Christ. Gentiles are called to renounce their false Gods. Jews are called to join us and renounce the law for salvation but that is a hard thing for most of them to do

We are all Israel only through Christ adoption for the Gentiles and Jews (according to the spirit)

If you think those scriptures apply to Jews only, then show when the Jews become converted BEFORE Jesus Returns.

I believe they are Israelites . What is an Israelite? (According to the flesh) One that converts to some form of messianic Judaism and rejects Christian Ideology such as a rapture to heaven and seeks to walk in the law (10 commandments) and believes in the circumcision of the heart to become an Israelite and believes in a new covenant or a renewed covenant

Their opposition will most likely come from the adherents of the Babylonian Talmud and oral law

You believe your Israel but they see you as a gentile. To become an Israelite you would have to renounce Jesus as the Son of God be circumcised enter into Torah and obey the 613 commandments basically convert to Judaism

You believe you should obey 10 commandments … they believe you should obey noachide laws to be a righteous gentile

You believe Jesus will return to reign in Jerusalem… They do not believe Jesus existed and teaching otherwise can result in punishment if they create a messianic age

The fact is that according to the false 'rapture to heaven' theory, the Jews have to pass thru the Great Tribulation of the final 3 1/2 years and at the end, they at last accept their Messiah Jesus.
Which is sheer nonsense and conflicts with many Prophesies that tell of the virtual demise of the House of Judah.

There is a curse in the law ..the law is sin and death for the ones who fail to keep them … not that the law in itself is sin …the law is holy …but man fails to keep the law properly ..and those that use the law to judge and condemn others must reap what they sow

death ends when the law ends

The great tribulation saints are part of the last attempt from God to witness to those who are lost before the wrath of God

This displays your confused errors.

Can’t you simply answer the questions without your silly remarks?….

We Christians are His 'sheep', John 10:1-27 and we are finally gathered to Him when He Returns. Matthew 24:30-31

Keras try and understand that when Jesus spoke these parables He was talking to His own.. His people … His kin… He was offering the kingdom of heaven to the Israelites

It was after His death that our new found hope came alive Romans 11:15 ..I often wondered if this scripture reveals when our resurrection will take place ..When God starts accepting the Israelites again

If you believe you are an Israelite … who am I to disagree with you?… I believe you are who you say you are …

 

[keras]

Present? Yes, but living there? No ..

Many Bible Prophesies prove you wrong"

Zephaniah 3:1-8 Woe to the place of oppression, filthy and defiled, they heed no warning voice and ignore God’s rebukes. They won’t take correction or place their trust in their Creator. Their leaders have no concern for the people and prophet and priest alike profane the Holy Scriptures.
The people who ‘won’t take correction or trust their Creator’, is the Jewish State of Israel.

The Lord has judged and punished them before, their land laid waste and the towns deserted and He thought: surely now they will fear Me and will accept instruction, but they continue on in their evil deeds and they show no shame for it.
Judah has been punished and exiled before; by Babylon and by Rome. But as Ezekiel 21:14 tells us, there will be a third time.

Therefore: look out for Me, for the Day when I will stand up to witness against you, on the Day that I execute justice upon the nations, for I will pour out My fierce anger and the whole earth will be enveloped by the fire of My wrath.
This will be the great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and fiery wrath against the nations. Prophesied in the Bible over 100 times. Habakkuk 3:12 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 6:12-17, +

Zephaniah 3:11-13 On that Day, Jerusalem, I shall wipe away your shame for all the transgressions committed in you, for I shall remove all your proud and arrogant citizens, only the humble and peaceful people will remain and those who never practise evil or speak lies, they will settle in the Land and nothing will disturb them.
This is the great Second Exodus of all of God’s people into all of the holy Land. Every faithful Christian: a vast multitude from every tribe, race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18-21, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Romans 9:24=26, Revelation 7:9 and the amazing stories in Psalms 107.

Zephaniah 3:9-10 They will all know a pure language, so everyone will know the true Name of the Lord and will praise Him with one accord. My worshippers, all the righteous people will come from afar to worship the Lord and bring offerings to Him. People from every race, nation and language, all the born again Christian people, will travel there to live, in the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, while the rest of the world is ruled by a One World Government. Daniel 7:23, Revelation 17:12

Zephaniah 3:14-17 Daughter of Jerusalem; sing for joy! For the Lord has taken away your punishments and has cast out your enemies. Now the Lord is with you and you need never again fear disaster.

On the Day of the Lord’s wrath; This is the message for My people: Fear not, stand firm in your faith, your God will keep you safe and will rejoice over you.
Ref: REB, CJB, KJV. Some verses condensed and paraphrased.

This chapter of Zephaniah encapsulates the soon to happen end times story.
It tells how Jerusalem, the holy Land is denigrated by its ungodly inhabitants and will rejoice when they are gone.

How those enemies of the Lord, the evil neighbors, Jeremiah 12:14, and all who reject the Salvation of Jesus, will be uprooted and gone, then the holy Land resettled by the Lord’s faithful believers. Ezekiel 34:11-31 tells it plainly.



Jeremiah 7:30-34 & 8:1-13 The people of Judah have done wrong, they worship idols and have no regard for their Creator....Therefore, the time is coming when I shall fill the valley of Topeth with their corpses.......All the survivors of this wicked race, from wherever I have banished them, would rather die than live. Isaiah 22:14

...Judah is incurable in their waywardness......I listen, but I hear not one word of remorse ....My people do not know the Judgements of the Lord. How can you say: We are wise and we have the Law of God, when your scribes and priests have falsified it? The wise are shamed and where is wisdom in them?

Therefore I will give their wives to others and give their land to new owners, for all of their prophets and priests are frauds....on My Day of reckoning, they will fall with a great crash. I shall surely consume them says the Lord and there will be no grapes on the vine, [Israel] and no figs on the fig tree. [Judah]

We Christians are told by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:4-5, that we should know God’s plans for what will happen in the near future. Zephaniah 3 gives it to us, confirmed by the sequence of Revelation chapters 6-7.

What is presented to you in these scriptures, is God’s Promises to His faithful people, His blessings of peace and prosperity, of joy and happiness, of security and long life, as all who love Him and keep the Commandments; will live in His Land.

It is the prophetic parallel of ancient Israel, where Jesus led the people through the desert and how most of them refused to accept the Promise. 1 Corinthians 10:6-13
Ezekiel 20:34-38 tells how, once again, some of His people will revolt and rebel and they will not be allowed to enter the Land of Israel.

In today’s situation, we have many who have accepted the Gospel, but who have chosen their own beliefs about what God intends to do for His people and during this forthcoming test, 1 Peter 4:12, they may fail to stand firm in their trust that the Lord will protect them. This won’t lose their salvation, but it will be a serious disadvantage, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15

As the great chapter of Isaiah 35:1-10, one of the many prophesies that describe the Lord’s faithful Christian people entering the holy Land, says: ...no one unclean will go there....The Lord’s people, set free: will enter Zion with shouts of triumph.

 

[dfw69]

Zephaniah 3:1-8 Woe to the place of oppression, filthy and defiled, they heed no warning voice and ignore God’s rebukes. They won’t take correction or place their trust in their Creator. Their leaders have no concern for the people and prophet and priest alike profane the Holy Scriptures.
The people who ‘won’t take correction or trust their Creator’, is the Jewish State of Israel.

Yes

The Lord has judged and punished them before, their land laid waste and the towns deserted and He thought: surely now they will fear Me and will accept instruction, but they continue on in their evil deeds and they show no shame for it.
Judah has been punished and exiled before; by Babylon and by Rome. But as Ezekiel 21:14 tells us, there will be a third time.

Yes

Therefore: look out for Me, for the Day when I will stand up to witness against you, on the Day that I execute justice upon the nations, for I will pour out My fierce anger and the whole earth will be enveloped by the fire of My wrath.
This will be the great and terrible Day of the Lord’s vengeance and fiery wrath against the nations. Prophesied in the Bible over 100 times. Habakkuk 3:12 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 6:12-17, +

Zephaniah 3:11-13 On that Day, Jerusalem, I shall wipe away your shame for all the transgressions committed in you, for I shall remove all your proud and arrogant citizens, only the humble and peaceful people will remain and those who never practise evil or speak lies, they will settle in the Land and nothing will disturb them.
This is the great Second Exodus of all of God’s people into all of the holy Land. Every faithful Christian: a vast multitude from every tribe, race, nation and language. Isaiah 66:18-21, Ezekiel 34:11-31, Romans 9:24=26, Revelation 7:9 and the amazing stories in Psalms 107.

Zephaniah 3:9-10 They will all know a pure language, so everyone will know the true Name of the Lord and will praise Him with one accord. My worshippers, all the righteous people will come from afar to worship the Lord and bring offerings to Him. People from every race, nation and language, all the born again Christian people, will travel there to live, in the new nation of Beulah, Isaiah 62:1-5, while the rest of the world is ruled by a One World Government. Daniel 7:23, Revelation 17:12

Zephaniah 3:14-17 Daughter of Jerusalem; sing for joy! For the Lord has taken away your punishments and has cast out your enemies. Now the Lord is with you and you need never again fear disaster.

On the Day of the Lord’s wrath; This is the message for My people: Fear not, stand firm in your faith, your God will keep you safe and will rejoice over you.
Ref: REB, CJB, KJV. Some verses condensed and paraphrased.

This chapter of Zephaniah encapsulates the soon to happen end times story.
It tells how Jerusalem, the holy Land is denigrated by its ungodly inhabitants and will rejoice when they are gone.

How those enemies of the Lord, the evil neighbors, Jeremiah 12:14, and all who reject the Salvation of Jesus, will be uprooted and gone, then the holy Land resettled by the Lord’s faithful believers. Ezekiel 34:11-31 tells it plainly.



Jeremiah 7:30-34 & 8:1-13 The people of Judah have done wrong, they worship idols and have no regard for their Creator....Therefore, the time is coming when I shall fill the valley of Topeth with their corpses.......All the survivors of this wicked race, from wherever I have banished them, would rather die than live. Isaiah 22:14

...Judah is incurable in their waywardness......I listen, but I hear not one word of remorse ....My people do not know the Judgements of the Lord. How can you say: We are wise and we have the Law of God, when your scribes and priests have falsified it? The wise are shamed and where is wisdom in them?

Therefore I will give their wives to others and give their land to new owners, for all of their prophets and priests are frauds....on My Day of reckoning, they will fall with a great crash. I shall surely consume them says the Lord and there will be no grapes on the vine, [Israel] and no figs on the fig tree. [Judah]

We Christians are told by Paul in 1 Thessalonians 5:4-5, that we should know God’s plans for what will happen in the near future. Zephaniah 3 gives it to us, confirmed by the sequence of Revelation chapters 6-7.

What is presented to you in these scriptures, is God’s Promises to His faithful people, His blessings of peace and prosperity, of joy and happiness, of security and long life, as all who love Him and keep the Commandments; will live in His Land.

It is the prophetic parallel of ancient Israel, where Jesus led the people through the desert and how most of them refused to accept the Promise. 1 Corinthians 10:6-13
Ezekiel 20:34-38 tells how, once again, some of His people will revolt and rebel and they will not be allowed to enter the Land of Israel.

In today’s situation, we have many who have accepted the Gospel, but who have chosen their own beliefs about what God intends to do for His people and during this forthcoming test, 1 Peter 4:12, they may fail to stand firm in their trust that the Lord will protect them. This won’t lose their salvation, but it will be a serious disadvantage, 1 Corinthians 3:13-15

As the great chapter of Isaiah 35:1-10, one of the many prophesies that describe the Lord’s faithful Christian people entering the holy Land, says: ...no one unclean will go there....The Lord’s people, set free: will enter Zion with shouts of triumph.

Too many scriptures thrown at me to cover .. just don’t have that kind of time to answer …

 

[pasifika]

There are some who think that there is no distinction among the peoples of the world, they are all simply descendants of Adam. The idea of the ubiquity of all humans.

However, God did choose a man, Abraham; to be the father of peoples who would be God’s special people to be His witnesses, Isaiah 43:10, John 15:27 and to display His Light to the nations. Isaiah 49:8, Matthew 5:14-16

Matthew 8:11-12 Many, I tell you; will come from the East and the West and sit with Abraham, Isaac and Jacob at the feast of the Kingdom. But those who were born into the Kingdom, will be thrown out into the dark, where there will be wailing and extreme sadness for what they have lost.

These Words of Jesus plainly show that there is a people who are part of the Kingdom of God by descent, but they can lose that advantage by their own rejection of Jesus and failure to keep the Commandments. This was spoken to a Roman Centurion, so it applies to Gentile and Jewish peoples.

We know that the Jewish people only represent the two tribes of Judah and Benjamin. The Jews themselves admit this truth.
The other 10 tribes remain scattered among the nations, Deuteronomy 4:27-28, John 7:35, serving their decreed time of exile. Ezekiel 4:4-5, multiplied by; Leviticus 26:18 = 2730 years. This time of exile is nearly finished and those people who have accepted the Salvation offered by Jesus, Matthew 15:24, will be Redeemed, restored and forgiven for their iniquities.

They ARE the people who comprise the ‘nation’, who bear the proper fruit; Matthew 21:43, all faithful Christians, now belonging to many diverse nationalities and speaking many different languages.
They will all come together, as prophesied; Ezekiel 34:11-16, Isaiah 35:1-10, Jeremiah 50:4-7, +, into the holy Land, all the area given to Abraham, but never yet fully occupied by the Lord’s people.

John sees them in his vision of the future; of Revelation 7:1-14, when the Lord will select 12,000 from each of the 12 tribes of Israel to go out and proclaim the coming Kingdom. Isaiah 66:19, Revelation 14:1-7

Malachi 3:6-7 I the Lord do not change and you, [my People] have not ceased to be the children of Jacob. Ever since the time of your forefathers, you have been wayward and have not kept My Laws. But if you return to Me, I shall return to you.

We Christian believers ARE the Lord’s people., who have returned to Him in faith.
WE must keep our trust in His protection through all that must happen and prove ourselves to be worthy when Jesus Returns, to be His priests and co-rulers. Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 66:21

Isaiah 49:8-13 says that the tribes of Israel will be restored and the Lord’s Salvation will reach to the ends of the earth. The Salvation has reached us and now we await the restoration back into our heritage. Ephesians 3:6, Romans 8:16-18, Psalms 37:29, where we will be called the children of the Living God. Romans 9:24-26

Don't reject the math of dispersion and the genetic ubiquity of all humans.
What is the truth, however is that God does know who the descendants of the people He originally chose to be His witnesses to the world. How He does that is told to us in Galatians 3:26-29 and Ephesians 2:11-18

Isaiah 14:1 The Lord will show compassion for Jacob and will once again make Israel His choice.... and; The Lord will gather Israel for the second time. Isaiah 11:11-12
Jacob, Israel; the father of the 12 tribes, far more than just the Jews.

Isaiah 65:8-16...as there is juice in a cluster of grapes....I will give descendants to Jacob and to Judah; heirs who will possess My holy Land...those who serve Me will live there. But you who forsake the Lord......I shall destine you for the Sword, they will not enter the Land. Ezekiel 20:34-38
There are, in fact over 160 verses in the Bible that tell us about God's plans for His people, a people who don't know their ancestry, but have come back to God through the Way given to us by Jesus.


Those who claim to be Israel and live in the Jewish State of Israel, are mainly not true Israelites as their known, recent ancestry and their rejection of Jesus precludes it.
Jesus' Words prove it: Luke 19:27, Revelation 3:9 and Paul says in Romans 2:26 that the real Jew is one who is circumcised of the heart.

Hi, I believe the Samaritans also still exist.

 

[dfw69]

Hi, I believe the Samaritans also still exist.

Lol I’m sure there are still many Good Samaritans in this world

 

[keras]

Too many scriptures thrown at me to cover .. just don’t have that kind of time to answer …

Yes, I don't like lengthy post to answer, either.
You did make some attempt, but stopped when you saw the prophecy about how God will give the holy land to new owners. He was talking to Judah at the time and said He would consume them. [by fire; Ezekiel 20:46-48]
There is many other Prophesies which say how the House of Judah will be thrown out of the holy Land, Matthew 8:12 and then the Land re-populated by all the faithful believers, from every tribe, race, nation and language.

The rapture is wrong, the great second Exodus is what will happen.
Psalms 60:1-5 You have been displeased and rejected us, now restore us, we pray. You have shaken the Land, it is barren and desolate. Your people are punished, but to those who love and obey You, You have raised a signal, to which they may escape. Save us and help us with Your strong Right Hand, deliver those whom You love.

Hi, I believe the Samaritans also still exist.

Just because some people claim to be Samaritans doesn't mean they actually are.
It is quite impossible for anyone to prove descent from ancient peoples, the maths of genetic ubiquity precludes it.

 

[dfw69]

Yes, I don't like lengthy post to answer, either.
You did make some attempt, but stopped when you saw the prophecy about how God will give the holy land to new owners.

Again I do not doubt God will send the good shepherd Jesus whose will gather the Israelites to Jerusalem when He returns

He is the rightful owner

But I am not an Israelite I seek to be born again by the spirit to become a child of the living God I seek a spiritual body to live in new Jerusalem which is in heaven I seek to go to my Father’s house that is my hope the hope of glory

He was talking to Judah at the time and said He would consume them. [by fire; Ezekiel 20:46-48]
There is many other Prophesies which say how the House of Judah will be thrown out of the holy Land, Matthew 8:12 and then the Land re-populated by all the faithful believers, from every tribe, race, nation and language.

Yes but the rapture will have taken place long before this happens Keras

The rapture is wrong,

No it is not and soon you may see that it is a reality that is if it takes place in our lifetime as i and many others believe it will then you may see for yourself that you were wrong

the great second Exodus is what will happen.
Psalms 60:1-5 You have been displeased and rejected us, now restore us, we pray. You have shaken the Land, it is barren and desolate. Your people are punished, but to those who love and obey You, You have raised a signal, to which they may escape. Save us and help us with Your strong Right Hand, deliver those whom You love.

Those Old Testament prophecies will happen when Jesus returns to fulfill them at His second coming to reign in Jerusalem

And from what I see in prophecy I dont expect Jesus to return to earth to reign just yet or anytime soon

There must come a falling away from the faith …what faith? Faith in Jesus to return to reign in Jerusalem? Possibly
And the persecution that will arise against such briefs will make it even harder to hold on

Some will fall away from Jesus because of sly doctrines and false teachers

And then the man of sin will sit in the temple which is not even been erected yet

Mystery Babylon is going to make it hard for the saints to keep the faith that Jesus will return to reign

And the 10 horn do not exist and have not formed yet …they will play an end time role which I believe will be 10 gentile kingdoms known as 10 lost tribes of Israel

Babylon the city in the land of shinar will play a role zech 5 which at the moment does not exist

I believe a false messianic age is the next thing to come out of Jerusalem with many false messiahs and false prophets ruling over all of Israel including the 10 northern kingdoms

They will create greater Israel and her sinning against our messiah will greatly multiply in those days ….

Again Paul taught that there comes a falling away from the faith… what faith? According to Paul teachings it could refer to Christian teachings and beliefs ….Even now there is a falling away from Christian beliefs such as the rapture and adoption and walking after spiritual things and Christ fulfilling the law for us , nailing it on the cross … Is this the falling away from the faith that he was referring to? Was he referring to the gospel? The good news that is found in Christ? … yes I believe so

I believe many have already turned away from basic Christian principles ..falling away from the faith in Christ.. falling away from the gospel from the good news that He returns to come to take us home to heaven

Many are returning to the law returning to a judgmental mindset , seeking to be holy and pious, seeking to rule over His household …

They are like clouds without water offering a little shade from the sun yet move on leaving behind no life-giving rain which is needed most ..where love for mankind and mercy and forgiveness is far from their heart

These are becoming like the Pharisees who condemned our Savior, the son of God for breaking the teachings and commandments of men. Such are these men ready to judge and condemn those that walk not according to their teachings

 

[keras]

But I am not an Israelite

If you are a true believer of God and have accepted the Salvation offered by Jesus, then you are an overcomer for God; literally an Israelite.
We see those overcomers in each of the 7 Church's of Revelation.

Yes but the rapture will have taken place long before this happens Keras

An unsupported statement like this, shows you have no scripture that actually says such a thing. John 14:1-3 does not say it.

No it is not and soon you may see that it is a reality that is if it takes place in our lifetime as i and many others believe it will then you may see for yourself that you were wrong

The fact that millions have been fooled by false teachings, is proved by Daniel 12:10b, only a few wise people will understand the end times prophesies.

Those Old Testament prophecies will happen when Jesus returns to fulfill them at His second coming to reign in Jerusalem

Daniel 7:25 and Revelation 13:7, make it clear that the holy people of God are present in the holy Land before Jesus Returns.

 

[dfw69]

If you are a true believer of God and have accepted the Salvation offered by Jesus,

I am but what do you define as salvation? I’m asking cause I’m sure it’s probably a different belief than mine a simple explanation in your own words will do …

The fact that millions have been fooled by false teachings,

Another false statement
Yes scriptures reveal false doctrines and false teachings but the rapture does not fall in that category

is proved by Daniel 12:10b, only a few wise people will understand the end times prophesies.

Well it seems to me that you believe you are of the few who are wise enough to understand end time prophecies…right ?

Well then let me ask you a few questions about Daniel 12?

1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: (who is this prince Michael?) (And what time is Daniel referring to?)


and there shall be a time of trouble, (what is this time of trouble?) (And Where does it come from?)

such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: (who is the nation affected by this time of trouble)

Yes some of these questions are easy

and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. (Who are daniel people?) (Also does this imply that only those found written in the lambs book of life are delivered?) (There it is again “at that time” are these things happening at a specific time?)

2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.(Does this resurrection also take place at this time?) (Or is it inserted here just to inform that there is coming a resurrection where some enter everlasting life and others will not?) (What is everlasting contempt?) (Is this the GWT judgement?)

Yes or no will do…

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.(Is this just poetic language saying that the wise and those that teach others to practice righteousness are rewarded eternal life?)

4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.(Is this book still sealed and shut or now revealed?)

5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.( so he sees 2 angels ?)

6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?(Another person standing on the waters clothed in linen?)(Who is this person?)

7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.(31/2 years to scatter the power of the holy people? What does this mean?) (After the 31/2 years, is the book of Daniel is fulfilled?)

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.(please explain this?) (Has the time of the end come that the words are no longer sealed?)

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.(Is He still referring to Daniels people?)

11 And from the time that the daily sacrifice shall be taken away, and the abomination that maketh desolate set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred and ninety days.(Is this a start to the time of trouble for Daniels people?)
(Are 3 things mentioned here …
1) daily sacrifice taken away
2)something abominable set up that makes something desolate
3)1290 of trouble?) if so please explain

12 Blessed is he that waiteth, and cometh to the thousand three hundred and five and thirty days.(what is this blessing at 1335 days from the time the daily sacrifices are removed? (Do you know what that blessing is?)

13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.(Is this a prophecy that Daniel shall die and be resurrected at the end of these things to stand on his own lot or portion in the land of Israel?)

 

[keras]

I am but what do you define as salvation? I’m asking cause I’m sure it’s probably a different belief than mine a simple explanation in your own words will do …

Believe in Me and you shall be saved.
But we must do that with repentance for our sins and then keep His Commandments.

Another false statement
Yes scriptures reveal false doctrines and false teachings but the rapture does not fall in that category

But the rapture is never said to be what God will do for His people. It is simply not Biblical.
This is shown by the many and varied theories of pre, mid and post rapture. All confusion and error.

Well it seems to me that you believe you are of the few who are wise enough to understand end time prophecies…right ?

The Lord did give me a vision and the holy Spirit has guided my writings on Bible Prophesy. All on my free website.

Daniel 12:1-3, is a prophecy about the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium. Rev 20:11-15.

9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.(please explain this?) (Has the time of the end come that the words are no longer sealed?)

10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.(Is He still referring to Daniels people?)

We are very close to the time of the end. The Words are no longer sealed, but only a few will understand the prophesies. Matthew 11:25-26

1290 of trouble?) if so please explain

The 1260 days, 42 months, or 3 1/2 years, as per Revelation, will be the final period before Jesus Returns. The extra 30 days is the time of Atonement and repentance for His people.

13 But go thou thy way till the end be: for thou shalt rest, and stand in thy lot at the end of the days.(Is this a prophecy that Daniel shall die and be resurrected at the end of these things to stand on his own lot or portion in the land of Israel?)

Daniel will rise to stand before God, along with everyone who has ever lived. Some to everlasting life and some to everlasting contempt. And they who are wise and righteous, shall shine bright as the stars forever.

 

[dfw69]

Believe in Me and you shall be saved.
But we must do that with repentance for our sins and then keep His Commandments.

Yes we believe that …
He is the son of God
Born of a woman
Came from above
Was before Abraham
Above all men
The bread of life
Greater name than all before Him
Died and was resurrected and sits at the right hand of God
He is the lamb of God which takes the away the sins of the world through His sacrifice
Who died in judgment by the law that sets us free from judgment and sin and death redeeming us, paying our debts in His death
He is our Passover
The way to the Father in heaven
He is our Father by adoption through faith in obedience to his teachings
He will return for us
Delivering us from wrath
Transforming us into the children of God
He is the truth
He is our eternal life

Yes we keep His commandments to love God and our neighbors , sinners and enemies, pray for your persecutors ,forgive , judge not ,condemn not ,turn other cheek , have mercy, be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect etc …

But the rapture is never said to be what God will do for His people. It is simply not Biblical.
This is shown by the many and varied theories of pre, mid and post rapture. All confusion and error.

Not biblical? Paul’s writings are biblical. Are you referring to Old Testament writings?

The confusion and errors are deliberate to deceive so that one does not come to the conclusion that it is in fact a true event for the believers

Do you know why this mystery revealed by Paul the prophet was not foreseen by the old prophets? Nor mentioned by them in the old scriptures and not even to John the Baptist? Because it was hidden from learned and wise deliberately. Had they known they would not have condemned Him 1 Cor 2:7-10

And if the mystery of the gospel is in fact written in the old scriptures it was not understood and if it was not understood it can’t be foreseen …. But now this hidden mystery is revealed through the Spirit of God though many law keepers even now don’t believe, can’t receive, nor foresee

All the Old Testament prophecies are for those under the law for an old covenant who don’t have the benefits of the new covenant because they are bound to the law or choose to be bound to the law …

The new covenant was a new thing that only came into effect at the spilling of His blood ratifying it and bringing about the new promises Keras and Jews and Gentiles can now benefit from His death by faith and repentance

The Lord did give me a vision and the holy Spirit has guided my writings on Bible Prophesy.

A vision as in an actual vision?
Please explain….was it like a prophet would receive a vision in the Old Testament?

Daniel 12:1-3, is a prophecy about the GWT Judgment, after the Millennium. Rev 20:11-15.

We are very close to the time of the end. The Words are no longer sealed, but only a few will understand the prophesies. Matthew 11:25-26

The 1260 days, 42 months, or 3 1/2 years, as per Revelation, will be the final period before Jesus Returns. The extra 30 days is the time of Atonement and repentance for His people.

Daniel will rise to stand before God, along with everyone who has ever lived. Some to everlasting life and some to everlasting contempt. And they who are wise and righteous, shall shine bright as the stars forever.

I was expecting more expounding but thank you Keras for your honest reply ..it’s refreshing ..I appreciate it …

 

[FPhelps]

Who are the legitimate heirs of God’s promises? It cannot be just those who claim to be descendants of Jacob, such as the citizens of the modern State of Israel, or the many people groups who falsely claim they are the ‘lost tribes’, etc.

The true Israelites of God are those individuals who meet the Covenant conditions, who by belief in God and in their moral and ethical behaviour, prove they belong to Him. 1 Peter 2:9-10

It was always possible for foreigners to become an Israelite, therefore parentage and actual descent is irrelevant:
Leviticus 19:33-34…foreigners are to be treated as native born among you…..

Isaiah 56:1-8….foreigners who give their allegiance to Me will be acceptable in My House of Prayer…..I shall add them to those who are already gathered.
Jesus said: Other sheep I must gather….John 19:16 and the Apostles made it clear that it is only by righteousness and faith that anyone is accepted into the House of Israel. Romans 9:6-9, Galatians 3:26-29, Ephesians 2:11-18

So to determine who qualifies as an Israelite person of God, we know:

1/ They cannot be determined by natural descent from Abraham, or more specifically, from Jacob. Nobody today, has proof of ancestry back to Abraham .

2/ They cannot become an Israelite by conversion to Judaism.

3/ Any person can become an Israelite of God by faith in Him, obedience to His Laws and the acceptance of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. John 3:16-17

Jesus is the ‘root and tree trunk’ of Israel. Paul said that the promises made to Abraham were to one Person and they are all ‘yes’ in Christ. Galatians 3:16, 2 Cor. 1:20
So now all we Christians, in Christ as His friends and working with Him, are now the branches of the ‘olive tree’ of the true Israel.

Jews have been cut off, but can be grafted back, as individual Christian believers. Bible prophecy proves that only a remnant will do that. Ezekiel 6:1-14, Zechariah 13:7-9, Romans 9:27
WE Christians are all true born again people from every tribe, race, nation and language. Romans 2:28-29, Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 56:1-8

This truth that: all righteous Christians are the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16, destroys the false ‘rapture to heaven’ theory. Jewish Israel have been broken off from the Olive Tree and can only be grafted back, by having Christian faith.
The prophesies about Judah, the Jewish people, are clear: only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 6:13, Luke 19:27. Romans 9:27 They have set up their own religion and refuse to acknowledge Jesus. Romans 10:1-4

It will be all the true, righteous Christian people that will inherit the holy Land and they are the people who will display God’s glory and be His witnesses to the nations, in the last few years before Jesus Returns. Ezekiel 39:21-29, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Isaiah 49:8-13, Ephesians 1:11, Romans 9:24-26

thanks for this , it can be so confusing when their is so much fake Christian teaching around and pro Israel propaganda.
regards
Todd

 

[Twin_niwT]

I asked Christ what His ethnicity was in the flesh during a 4 month long miracle in 2017 and His reply to me was IRISH!

 

[eclipsenow]

I asked Christ what His ethnicity was in the flesh during a 4 month long miracle in 2017 and His reply to me was IRISH!

I'm into the 5 solas of the reformation. The Five Solas – Introduction to Protestantism
A big part of that seems to be that the bible itself teaches the "Sufficiency of Scripture" for our guidance in pleasing God. I'm not sure why this has been lost in so much of the church today, but for every Irish Jesus I could probably find a black Jesus, Celtic Jesus, Viking Jesus, First Nations American Jesus or even Aboriginal Jesus. Hey - if I look REALLY hard through history books I might even find an Aramaic speaking Jewish Jesus - imagine that?!

In the meantime, I highly recommend this as a memory verse.

Another big 3:16 of the bible.

2 Timothy 3:16​

​

16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, 17 so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.​

Thoroughly. Not partially. Thoroughly. For knowing everything about everything we might be curious about? Nope. But everything necessary for a useful godly life. And pretending Jesus spoke to us for this or that vain purpose - and to say he was IRISH - well, colour me very sceptical indeed. It's called "The sufficiency of the scriptures" - and it's awesome at preventing someone getting side-tracked by subjective impressions and vain conceits.

As I am for all those who pretend Jesus spoke to them some extra knowledge to help them 'understand' Revelation - which turns out to be another concoction of their own 'goodies and badies' from their own geopolitical framework. This episode of Undeceptions was a great introduction into how futurists have always concocted their own stories about 'goodies and badies' from the politics of their day. Stalin for AntiChrist anyone? Oh - wait - we've already been there - done that. So just click on the image below for a great podcast. Subscribe! It's awesome and goes into all sorts of apologetics.

 

[eclipsenow]

Who are the legitimate heirs of God’s promises? It cannot be just those who claim to be descendants of Jacob, such as the citizens of the modern State of Israel, or the many people groups who falsely claim they are the ‘lost tribes’, etc.

The true Israelites of God are those individuals who meet the Covenant conditions, who by belief in God and in their moral and ethical behaviour, prove they belong to Him. 1 Peter 2:9-10

It was always possible for foreigners to become an Israelite, therefore parentage and actual descent is irrelevant:
Leviticus 19:33-34…foreigners are to be treated as native born among you…..

Isaiah 56:1-8….foreigners who give their allegiance to Me will be acceptable in My House of Prayer…..I shall add them to those who are already gathered.
Jesus said: Other sheep I must gather….John 19:16 and the Apostles made it clear that it is only by righteousness and faith that anyone is accepted into the House of Israel. Romans 9:6-9, Galatians 3:26-29, Ephesians 2:11-18

So to determine who qualifies as an Israelite person of God, we know:

1/ They cannot be determined by natural descent from Abraham, or more specifically, from Jacob. Nobody today, has proof of ancestry back to Abraham .

2/ They cannot become an Israelite by conversion to Judaism.

3/ Any person can become an Israelite of God by faith in Him, obedience to His Laws and the acceptance of the atoning sacrifice of Jesus. John 3:16-17

Jesus is the ‘root and tree trunk’ of Israel. Paul said that the promises made to Abraham were to one Person and they are all ‘yes’ in Christ. Galatians 3:16, 2 Cor. 1:20
So now all we Christians, in Christ as His friends and working with Him, are now the branches of the ‘olive tree’ of the true Israel.

Jews have been cut off, but can be grafted back, as individual Christian believers. Bible prophecy proves that only a remnant will do that. Ezekiel 6:1-14, Zechariah 13:7-9, Romans 9:27
WE Christians are all true born again people from every tribe, race, nation and language. Romans 2:28-29, Revelation 5:9-10, Isaiah 56:1-8

This truth that: all righteous Christians are the Israel of God, Galatians 6:16, destroys the false ‘rapture to heaven’ theory. Jewish Israel have been broken off from the Olive Tree and can only be grafted back, by having Christian faith.
The prophesies about Judah, the Jewish people, are clear: only a remnant will survive. Isaiah 6:13, Luke 19:27. Romans 9:27 They have set up their own religion and refuse to acknowledge Jesus. Romans 10:1-4

It will be all the true, righteous Christian people that will inherit the holy Land and they are the people who will display God’s glory and be His witnesses to the nations, in the last few years before Jesus Returns. Ezekiel 39:21-29, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Isaiah 49:8-13, Ephesians 1:11, Romans 9:24-26

I agree with you - with much relief - on the identity of the true Israel now. That's basic New Testament teaching that there is only one kingdom of God - the church. I'm not sure I agree with how you might apply certain OT verses to the church in your eschatology - as all those verses about a Holy Land were fulfilled in eschatological tension in Jesus death and resurrection. He became the sole true Israelite when all had abandoned God, and alone on the cross accomplished so much! Not just dying for our sins, but fulfilling all OT sacrificial law, the temple system, the temple laws, the kingdom of God, and indeed - caught up in that idea - THE LAND and indeed the entire COSMOS was redeemed! So forget some little strip of land in the middle east - the whole WORLD is God's kingdom now. And every one of your OT verses predicting a "great day of fire" is a misunderstanding of OT verses about either a local war, or much bigger language of cosmic redemption on the cross. Your reading of Revelation 6 is just wrong. It's the end of the world - no less. No one can see God and live. Who did they see? Go figure. NOT a CME! Your reading of Revelation 6 only has a few more years then will be proved false by history.

 

[keras]

I agree with you - with much relief - on the identity of the true Israel now. That's basic New Testament teaching that there is only one kingdom of God - the church.

That's good.
True Israelites are not the established Church, only individuals and many reject Church beliefs and teachings.

So forget some little strip of land in the middle east

But God surely doesn't! My eyes are always upon the Land.... Deuteronomy 11:12 The holy Land is inscribed upon the palms of the Lord's hands, Isaiah 49:14-21 His holy people will live there forever...Psalms 69:32-35, Isaiah 65:9

the whole WORLD is God's kingdom now

Not yet. It will be when Jesus Returns. Revelation 19:11-21

And every one of your OT verses predicting a "great day of fire" is a misunderstanding of OT verses about either a local war, or much bigger language of cosmic redemption on the cross. Your reading of Revelation 6 is just wrong. It's the end of the world - no less. No one can see God and live. Who did they see? Go figure. NOT a CME! Your reading of Revelation 6 only has a few more years then will be proved false by history.

Some, but not much of OT Prophecy was fulfilled in ancient times.
How can you say a literal understanding of future events, is wrong; before the window for their fulfilment is closed?

A big Coronal Mass Ejection is the only thing which can literally cause all the graphically Prophesied events. It will be what will happen, Isaiah 30:26a proves it.
What else can God do to resolve the chronic and untenable situation in the Middle East? Zephaniah 1:18....I shall make speedy riddance of all who dwell in the [holy] Land.