Is Calvinism a heresy?

[bbbbbbb]

There is no question in your OP so I thought it was about if Calvinism is a heresy or not.

That was my understanding, as well.

 

[maxamir]

There are more than two camps.

There is synergism and there is monergism. Anyone who consistently follows the pope is a synergist, who believes that they can somehow cooperate with God to save themselves which is contrary to Scripture and common sense which plainly states that dead men can not do anything except be dead.

Monergism states that because man is completely spiritually dead in sin, it must therefore be completely a work of God which saves man and it is only this doctrine which gives all the glory to God alone. Anyone who does not understand this, has not yet been humbled by God to let go of everything they are or have and cling simply to Christ alone and His righteousness which is granted to His elect people by grace through faith.

Those who die in their sin never being humbled will know for all eternity that they were not elect, being justly and eternally hated by God. This doctrine of sovereign election is meant to offend and humble people to awaken them to the fact that salvation belongs to Lord and not to man.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Anyone who consistently follows the pope is a synergist

It might be a good idea to stop telling Catholics what you allege that they believe. Catholics know what they believe, many of them know it far better than you.

 

[maxamir]

Two different worlds (komoses) on the same earth that is.
The whole of Genesis 1 and 2 . In particular, the use of 'it was so' means it used to be that way in the first creation. You just gotta read the link maxy and stop messing about. There is no doubt.

Genesis Similitudes

I have answered it, you seem to think 'image of god' is sin free? Well most if us are not sin free? I can find no scriptural evidence to limit the meaning of 'in his image'. Can you? Body spirit and soull to jesus, God the Father and The Holy Spirit is 'in his image'. Our base spirit from God the Father, indwelt with Jesus and The Holy Spirit is 'in his image' and the saved being conformed to christ is also 'in his image'. Head, face eyes hands arme legs also 'in his image'.
When some of us are 'without spot or blemish' living in the spirit and sin free, that will also again be 'in his image'

I believe the Bible is the inerrant word of God. Man is indeed spiritually dead after the fall but::

Here is where we disagree I think man cant get himself out of this mess, but he can let/ allow/permit/ask The Holy Spirit do it. And so far you have not shown me any scripture that says otherwise. I have shown you scripture that confirms it but you decline to read it.


I try to but sometimes you cannot, says the man of a thousand links btw.

It would be true to say that there are two worlds only in the context of the one that was originally made by God and the other, the cursed world that we now live in which will soon be destroyed by fire.

I have given the biblical definition for the image of God as being spiritual/ethical and not simply man's humanity. It is described in Scripture as being true righteousness, holiness and an intimate knowledge of God (Eph 4:24, Col 3:10). These are qualities that Adam had before the Fall but no one has afterwards except Christ who is the Image of God (2 Cor 4:4), who knew no sin but became sin to grant unto His people the forgiveness of sin, righteousness and eternal life (Mat 1:21, 2 Cor 5:21, Joh 10:28).

God is Spirit (Joh 4:24) therefore He does not have hands, eyes, feet etc which are found in Scripture as anthropomorphisms. He is light in whom is no darkness (1 Jn 1:5) and He does not change (Mal 3:6), therefore His image is equivalent to His likeness in which man was originally made (Gen 1:26) and was called very good (verse 31) but afterwards the Lord Himself declares man to be only evil continually (Gen 6:5) and you somehow think that sinful man still has that which is good? The reason why Christ said that men must be born again is because all men are born in the image of the Devil (Joh 8:44, 1 Jn 3:10).

Do you believe the Scriptures are also inspired by God and infallible and do you submit to them as your ultimate source given by God for truth (2 Tim 3:16-17)?

I would love to hear what you think the word "dead" actually means in the context of the verse below and then know from you what you believe dead men can actually do?

Eph 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins

Once again, below is a list of Scriptures under the first column called Total Depravity that prove man is indeed spiritually dead and therefore incapable of doing anything to save himself. Please humbly read your Bible.

 

[maxamir]

It might be a good idea to stop telling Catholics what you allege that they believe. Catholics know what they believe, many of them know it far better than you.

I trust that I am more of a Catholic than yourself, being that the word itself means universal. Please use the proper contradictory title of Roman Catholic in future so as not to possibly offend anyone.

Being an ex Roman Catholic myself, I know very well what Roman Catholics believe.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Being an ex Roman Catholic myself, I know very well what Roman Catholics believe.

You appear to think you know, I am unconvinced by your claim.

 

[maxamir]

You appear to think you know, I am unconvinced by your claim.

To be completely honest with you, I do not really care if you are convinced or not. I am not here to argue over your traditions.

You created this thread and I am here to state that Calvinism is not heresy but is in fact the Gospel, which Augustine discovered in the Holy Scriptures and many men before and after him have done the same.

 

[maxamir]

Here is where we disagree I think man cant get himself out of this mess, but he can let/ allow/permit/ask The Holy Spirit do it. And so far you have not shown me any scripture that says otherwise. I have shown you scripture that confirms it but you decline to read it.

For your perusal below.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

To be completely honest with you, I do not really care if you are convinced or not. I am not here to argue over your traditions.

Yet you brought it up, was that just a vagrant thought that invaded your post?

But this thread is not about Catholicism, is it; it is about Calvinism and especially the L of TULIP and the combination of letters that adds up to double-predestination - that is to say, predestination both to glory and predestination to eternal punishment.

 

[zoidar]

To be completely honest with you, I do not really care if you are convinced or not. I am not here to argue over your traditions.

You created this thread and I am here to state that Calvinism is not heresy but is in fact the Gospel, which Augustine discovered in the Holy Scriptures and many men before and after him have done the same.

This is the gospel:

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
— John 3:16

Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”
— Acts 17:30-31

Can it be that simple? Yes, it is that simple! The gospel is not a complicated thing put together by theologians. It's the simpliest thing, so simple a child can understand it.

Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
— Matthew 18:4

 

[bbbbbbb]

There is synergism and there is monergism. Anyone who consistently follows the pope is a synergist, who believes that they can somehow cooperate with God to save themselves which is contrary to Scripture and common sense which plainly states that dead men can not do anything except be dead.

Monergism states that because man is completely spiritually dead in sin, it must therefore be completely a work of God which saves man and it is only this doctrine which gives all the glory to God alone. Anyone who does not understand this, has not yet been humbled by God to let go of everything they are or have and cling simply to Christ alone and His righteousness which is granted to His elect people by grace through faith.

Those who die in their sin never being humbled will know for all eternity that they were not elect, being justly and eternally hated by God. This doctrine of sovereign election is meant to offend and humble people to awaken them to the fact that salvation belongs to Lord and not to man.

Very nicely stated. Some will argue, however, that they do not identify with either camp. This argument typically comes from synergists, who, reasonably, are uncomfortable with the concept that they will be held responsible for the act(s) required for their personal salvation, of which there are no stipulations or requirements given specifically in scripture. Thus, Catholics are forced from baptism onto an endless treadmill of works, none of which can provide the least assurance of personal salvation.

An example of a synergistic theology which attempts to embrace monergism is that of sacerdotalism. Sacerdotalists, as I am sure you know, believe that God has graciously provided sacraments as the means by which His grace is freely given to the recipient quite apart from any merit on their part or of the priest who performs the sacrament. On the face of it, it seems to be quite monergistic, but the reality is that unless human effort is expended to partake of a sacrament, then God cannot and will not give His grace to the potential recipient. Thus, in reality, sacerdotalism is merely a convenient ruse for synergism.

 

[zoidar]

Very nicely stated. Some will argue, however, that they do not identify with either camp. This argument typically comes from synergists, who, reasonably, are uncomfortable with the concept that they will be held responsible for the act(s) required for their personal salvation, of which there are no stipulations or requirements given specifically in scripture. Thus, Catholics are forced from baptism onto an endless treadmill of works, none of which can provide the least assurance of personal salvation.

An example of a synergistic theology which attempts to embrace monergism is that of sacerdotalism. Sacerdotalists, as I am sure you know, believe that God has graciously provided sacraments as the means by which His grace is freely given to the recipient quite apart from any merit on their part or of the priest who performs the sacrament. On the face of it, it seems to be quite monergistic, but the reality is that unless human effort is expended to partake of a sacrament, then God cannot and will not give His grace to the potential recipient. Thus, in reality, sacerdotalism is merely a convenient ruse for synergism.

Are you a synergist if you believe we need to call on the Lord to be saved?

for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
— Romans 10:13

 

[bbbbbbb]

Are you a synergist if you believe we need to call on the Lord to be saved?

for “Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
— Romans 10:13

That is a really excellent question. We have, from the very same author in the very same letter, this -

Romans 3:9 What shall we conclude then? Do we have any advantage? Not at all! For we have already made the charge that Jews and Gentiles alike are all under the power of sin. 10 As it is written:

“There is no one righteous, not even one;
11 there is no one who understands;
there is no one who seeks God.
12 All have turned away,
they have together become worthless;
there is no one who does good,
not even one.”
13 “Their throats are open graves;
their tongues practice deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is on their lips.”
14 “Their mouths are full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 ruin and misery mark their ways,
17 and the way of peace they do not know.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”

This was not his own notion, but he quoted verbatim from a curious pair of Psalms (nos. 14 and 53). If one takes your verse and the earlier passage from chapter 3 at face value, then one might easily conclude that there is a complete contradiction here. There have been many means of resolving this inherent tension. Which do you prefer?

 

[jameslouise]

It would be true to say that there are two worlds only in the context of the one that was originally made by God and the other, the cursed world that we now live in which will soon be destroyed by fire

I have given the biblical definition for the image of God as being spiritual/ethical and not simply man's humanity. It is described in Scripture as being true righteousness

Nowhere does it say thatt the image of God is JUST what you say, By your definition you are not in the image because you still sin.

God is Spirit (Joh 4:24) therefore He does not have hands, eyes, feet etc which are found in Scripture as anthropomorphisms

yes God the Father does

Do you believe the Scriptures are also inspired by God and infallible and do you submit to them as your ultimate source given by God for truth (2 Tim 3:16-17)

Yes

I would love to hear what you think the word "dead" actually means in the context of the verse below and then know from you what you believe dead men can actually do?

Eph 2:1 And you He made alive, who were dead in trespasses and sins

Yep means exactly what it says, simple text, a non sequitur for this argument though

Once again, below is a list of Scriptures under the first column called Total Depravity that prove man is indeed spiritually dead and therefore incapable of doing anything to save himself. Please humbly read your Bible

Yep read them all before not one says we do not have a choice

For your perusal below

Yep seen them too lets deal with Rom 8:29 first
28.And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.

29.For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren

30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified

God foreknew everybody as Acts 17:28 clearly says

The whole of verse 29 is about a people group defined by 'them that love God and are called'. it says nothing about what God does for those that do not love him. He may do something for them too he may not, you cannot tell from these verses. All the predestinate, called, justified glorified are again selected by ' the love god' not necessarily the predestination as Calvinists claim.
Second time I have asked this and I am starting to agree with John Mullally, you don't seEm answer questions on scripture you dont fancy? You just keep copy and pasting scripture links which do not say what you say they do.

 

[Valletta]

I trust that I am more of a Catholic than yourself, being that the word itself means universal. Please use the proper contradictory title of Roman Catholic in future so as not to possibly offend anyone.

Being an ex Roman Catholic myself, I know very well what Roman Catholics believe.

There is no "Roman Catholic" church, our Church is called the "Catholic Church." You can check out our Catechism of the Catholic Church and you will find no reference to the "Roman Catholic Church." By far the most popular rite of the Catholic Church is called the "Latin Rite" or "Roman Rite, here is the relevant section from the Catechism:

1200 From the first community of Jerusalem until the parousia, it is the same Paschal mystery that the Churches of God, faithful to the apostolic faith, celebrate in every place. The mystery celebrated in the liturgy is one, but the forms of its celebration are diverse.
1201 The mystery of Christ is so unfathomably rich that it cannot be exhausted by its expression in any single liturgical tradition. The history of the blossoming and development of these rites witnesses to a remarkable complementarity. When the Churches lived their respective liturgical traditions in the communion of the faith and the sacraments of the faith, they enriched one another and grew in fidelity to Tradition and to the common mission of the whole Church.66
1202 The diverse liturgical traditions have arisen by very reason of the Church's mission. Churches of the same geographical and cultural area came to celebrate the mystery of Christ through particular expressions characterized by the culture: in the tradition of the "deposit of faith,"67 in liturgical symbolism, in the organization of fraternal communion, in the theological understanding of the mysteries, and in various forms of holiness. Through the liturgical life of a local church, Christ, the light and salvation of all peoples, is made manifest to the particular people and culture to which that Church is sent and in which she is rooted. The Church is catholic, capable of integrating into her unity, while purifying them, all the authentic riches of cultures.68
1203 The liturgical traditions or rites presently in use in the Church are the Latin (principally the Roman rite, but also the rites of certain local churches, such as the Ambrosian rite, or those of certain religious orders) and the Byzantine, Alexandrian or Coptic, Syriac, Armenian, Maronite and Chaldean rites. In "faithful obedience to tradition, the sacred Council declares that Holy Mother Church holds all lawfully recognized rites to be of equal right and dignity, and that she wishes to preserve them in the future and to foster them in every way."69

 

[bbbbbbb]

There is no "Roman Catholic" church, our Church is called the "Catholic Church." You can check out our Catechism of the Catholic Church and you will find no reference to the "Roman Catholic Church." By far the most popular rite of the Catholic Church is called the "Latin Rite" or "Roman Rite, here is the relevant section from the Catechism:

1200 From the first community of Jerusalem until the parousia, it is the same Paschal mystery that the Churches of God, faithful to the apostolic faith, celebrate in every place. The mystery celebrated in the liturgy is one, but the forms of its celebration are diverse.
1201 The mystery of Christ is so unfathomably rich that it cannot be exhausted by its expression in any single liturgical tradition. The history of the blossoming and development of these rites witnesses to a remarkable complementarity. When the Churches lived their respective liturgical traditions in the communion of the faith and the sacraments of the faith, they enriched one another and grew in fidelity to Tradition and to the common mission of the whole Church.66
1202 The diverse liturgical traditions have arisen by very reason of the Church's mission. Churches of the same geographical and cultural area came to celebrate the mystery of Christ through particular expressions characterized by the culture: in the tradition of the "deposit of faith,"67 in liturgical symbolism, in the organization of fraternal communion, in the theological understanding of the mysteries, and in various forms of holiness. Through the liturgical life of a local church, Christ, the light and salvation of all peoples, is made manifest to the particular people and culture to which that Church is sent and in which she is rooted. The Church is catholic, capable of integrating into her unity, while purifying them, all the authentic riches of cultures.68
1203 The liturgical traditions or rites presently in use in the Church are the Latin (principally the Roman rite, but also the rites of certain local churches, such as the Ambrosian rite, or those of certain religious orders) and the Byzantine, Alexandrian or Coptic, Syriac, Armenian, Maronite and Chaldean rites. In "faithful obedience to tradition, the sacred Council declares that Holy Mother Church holds all lawfully recognized rites to be of equal right and dignity, and that she wishes to preserve them in the future and to foster them in every way."69

We seem to have an unusual denomination here in Iowa. In the telephone book they are entitled "Roman Catholic" and the signs in front of their church buildings also refer to them as being "Roman Catholic". Are they a form of Eastern Orthodoxy?

 

[Valletta]

Do you believe the Scriptures are also inspired by God and infallible and do you submit to them as your ultimate source given by God for truth (2 Tim 3:16-17)?

Timothy says nothing about submitting all authority to a book. Jesus is our Savior and OUR LORD, not a book, not even a book that is the Word of God. ALL Scripture is profitable, it does not say "ONLY" Scripture. Jesus also said nothing about Protestants dropping books from the Bible some 1400 years later.

 

[maxamir]

This is the gospel:

“For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.
— John 3:16

Therefore having overlooked the times of ignorance, God is now declaring to men that all people everywhere should repent, because He has fixed a day in which He will judge the world in righteousness through a Man whom He has appointed, having furnished proof to all men by raising Him from the dead.”
— Acts 17:30-31

Can it be that simple? Yes, it is that simple! The gospel is not a complicated thing put together by theologians. It's the simpliest thing, so simple a child can understand it.

Whoever then humbles himself as this child, he is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven.
— Matthew 18:4

To proclaim a half truth as a whole truth, in essence , is no truth at all.

Act 20:26 Therefore I testify to you this day that I am innocent of the blood of all men.
Act 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare to you the whole counsel of God.

 

[maxamir]

Yet you brought it up, was that just a vagrant thought that invaded your post?

But this thread is not about Catholicism, is it; it is about Calvinism and especially the L of TULIP and the combination of letters that adds up to double-predestination - that is to say, predestination both to glory and predestination to eternal punishment.

I mentioned it because you proudly display the papal tiara in your avatar, which represents the ex cathedra infallibility of the pope in direct contradiction to the Scriptures. Do you truly believe this? I know many Roman Catholics who view the current pope as apostate.

If you have followed my previous posts, you should know that all of the letters are predicated on the first. Did man actually die as God promised in Genesis 2:17 or not and what does that death mean?

If man is indeed spiritually dead, then it must be God who initiates, secures and preserves those He saves, which can not be every person who ever existed.

The laws of logic demand that the verses below can not mean all as being every person without exception, because the second verse conditions it to be being many, which can not be all without exception but instead all of the many which are the elect, which the chosen nation of Israel was a shadow of.

1Ti_2:6 who gave Himself a ransom for all,
Mar_10:45 and to give His life a ransom for many."

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

I mentioned it because you proudly display the papal tiara in your avatar

The avatar is not relevant, I've swapped it around quite a lot. Besides, isn't this thread a discussion of a topic rather than an opportunity to pick on avatar choice?