Should Christians support the death penalty?

[Diamond7]

Let's assume if there were no mistakes.

Life is ALWAYS the right choice. Death is NEVER the right choice. Perhaps we should neuter them like we do a cat. That seems to take the fight out of the cats and they are more peaceful after that. There is an area in the brain in these people that lights up like Christmas tree. Maybe put chemical hand cuffs on them.

I always wonder about David in the Bible and how many people he killed and was still God's favorite. Somehow it does not seem possible that he was a man of blood and still loved God and God's law as much as he did. The Bible says a man after God's own heart.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

I don't support the death penalty as we are finding out that we have executed innocent people that were exonerated later on.

The Innocent and the Death Penalty - Innocence Project

innocenceproject.org

If the innocent are executed, is that any worse than if the innocent are imprisoned for a decade or longer? By that logic, we might as well not have any criminal justice system at all if there is even a remote danger of convicting the innocent.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

If the innocent are executed, is that any worse than if the innocent are imprisoned for a decade or longer? By that logic, we might as well not have any criminal justice system at all if there is even a remote danger of convicting the innocent.

We can at least release them. Are you familiar with Annie Dookhan. She was a Massachusetts lab technician who falsified thousands of drug results. What if we executed drug offenders?

On April 18, 2017, Massachusetts dropped more than 21,000 low-level drug criminal charges involving Dookhan. Out of the 15,570 cases in which she was involved, only 117 were to be pursued, according to Daniel Conley, the district attorney in Suffolk County, which includes Boston. Other counties followed suit, taking direction from the state Supreme Court to select a small fraction of cases for re-prosecution.

 

[ZephBonkerer]

We can at least release them. Are you familiar with Annie Dookhan. She was a Massachusetts lab technician who falsified thousands of drug results...

Sure we can release them, but who can give them back the years they lost? Can anyone be made 10 years younger? Can anyone restore the time that they might have otherwise used to build a career?

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

Sure we can release them, but who can give them back the years they lost? Can anyone be made 10 years younger? Can anyone restore the time that they might have otherwise used to build a career?

No but with restitution, we can try to make amends. IMHO we should review the limited immunity that police and prosecutors get when they falsify evidence. We can also think of Joseph who was sold into slavery by his brothers.

What would you suggest?

 

[ZephBonkerer]

No but with restitution, we can try to make amends. IMHO we should review the limited immunity that police and prosecutors get when they falsify evidence. We can also think of Joseph who was sold into slavery by his brothers.

What would you suggest?

First off, the penalty for falsifying or suppressing evidence should be greatly increased. Prosecutors who do this deserve to be sent away for decades, if not executed.

Second, if we are going to have a death penalty, let's do it right. The time between sentence and execution should be no more than five years. And the method of execution should look something like a Mortal Kombat fatality. I came up with a punishment for convicted terrorists, the description of which would not be fit to print in any family publication.

The criminal justice system exists primarily to punish. I get a bit annoyed when we refer to prisons as "correctional institutions" or "penitentiaries". Does the Lake of Fire exist to rehabilitate?

Rehabilitation is fine for lesser offenses, especially for the drug related kind.

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

So no recompense for someone falsely convicted?

 

[ViaCrucis]

First off, the penalty for falsifying or suppressing evidence should be greatly increased. Prosecutors who do this deserve to be sent away for decades, if not executed.

Executed? No. But yes, there should be serious consequences for those who falsify evidence.

Second, if we are going to have a death penalty, let's do it right. The time between sentence and execution should be no more than five years. And the method of execution should look something like a Mortal Kombat fatality. I came up with a punishment for convicted terrorists, the description of which would not be fit to print in any family publication.

Should we, who believe in Christ, confess Him as our Lord and King, who have been instructed in His teaching, who calls and commands us to lay down our own lives and to love others, even our own enemies, regard fantasies of harm toward others (even our enemies) as good? Or rather, should we acknowledge that our violent impulses, our base desires and passions as being the work of the sinful flesh, the old Adam who insists on rearing his ugly head in us but whom we are called to put to death by repentance?

For the Apostle wrote in the 7th chapter of Romans that the law of sin remains present in our bodily members, and so the good that we want to do we fail to do and the evil we do not want to do we keep doing anyway. This battle between the old man and the new man, the struggle to take up our cross and follow Jesus our Lord as His disciples, is a daily struggle against the old man, against the very sin that lay present in our members, the deep wound and hurt and sickness that is present in the very core of our humanity is precisely the very thing that God is saving us from, healing us from, and God is turning us away from in order that, by His grace and power, through the power of the Holy Spirit and the call of the Gospel which giving faith justifies us before God is calling us, inviting us, and moving us toward conformity with Jesus.

That we are to "have this same mind which was in Christ Jesus" that we are to "not be conformed to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of [our] minds" that God "who began the good work in [us] will continue that good work until the day of the Lord Jesus".

The Christian should not inhabit their sin gleefully, but flee from it, find refuge in Christ and call upon Him for our every need--that when our minds turn toward darkness we call out to Him that He might be the light that shines in the dark corners of our minds, our hearts, and our very souls--to expose our wickedness to the light of day, that it might be confessed freely before God who has promised us that if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. That we are to hold captive every thought, we are to recognize, as the Prophet Jeremiah has spoken, that the heart is deceitful and desperately sick.

We abide in Christ, we abide in Him, daily, cling to Him, cleave to His cross. To die, again and again and again, for the Apostle has said, "To live is Christ and to die is gain" and our Lord Himself taught us, "Whoever clings to their life shall lose it, but whoever gives it away shall find it". For it is in giving ourselves away that we find, it is in dying that we live; for we have our life hidden in Christ, this we have received from God by the power of His great grace. That we might no longer be the slaves of sin, but slaves of righteousness.

The Christian is called, indeed commanded, to hold every thought captive, to confess our dark thoughts and the sick and deceitful feelings of our broken hearts. For here at the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ we fall, and Christ alone saves us, in Him alone we have justification before God, and from Him and in Him alone we are daily being sanctified as the old man is put to death, drowning in repentance, in order that we live abiding in Christ and obedience to Him our very Lord, God, and King.

The criminal justice system exists primarily to punish. I get a bit annoyed when we refer to prisons as "correctional institutions" or "penitentiaries". Does the Lake of Fire exist to rehabilitate?

Rehabilitation is fine for lesser offenses, especially for the drug related kind.

The Prophet Ezekiel has written, "'Do I desire the death of the wicked?' Declares the Lord God, 'Do I not desire that that they repent and live?'"

It is true that the power of government exists to curb evil, and to apply the sword where necessary. But does the application of the sword mean that we should ignore justice that restores and rehabilitates?

I believe, at least in my own country, the USA, we need serious prison reform. Because at present our prison system exists largely to make a profit rather than to serve the cause of justice. There is much to be said on that issue, but for now I'm simply going to say: God wills that the wicked repent and find life, and the Church is called to preach life, to advocate for justice, to preach the word of God and proclaim the grace of God which is through Jesus Christ our Lord to the whole world. For we are Christ's people, the people of His Cross and Empty Tomb.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[PsaltiChrysostom]

It is true that the power of government exists to curb evil, and to apply the sword where necessary. But does the application of the sword mean that we should ignore justice that restores and rehabilitates?

I believe, at least in my own country, the USA, we need serious prison reform. Because at present our prison system exists largely to make a profit rather than to serve the cause of justice. There is much to be said on that issue, but for now I'm simply going to say: God wills that the wicked repent and find life, and the Church is called to preach life, to advocate for justice, to preach the word of God and proclaim the grace of God which is through Jesus Christ our Lord to the whole world. For we are Christ's people, the people of His Cross and Empty Tomb.

-CryptoLutheran

As this example shows. Atwood: The Arizona Death Row Inmate Turned Orthodox Monk

 

[ZephBonkerer]

Should we, who believe in Christ, confess Him as our Lord and King, who have been instructed in His teaching, who calls and commands us to lay down our own lives and to love others, even our own enemies, regard fantasies of harm toward others (even our enemies) as good? Or rather, should we acknowledge that our violent impulses, our base desires and passions as being the work of the sinful flesh, the old Adam who insists on rearing his ugly head in us but whom we are called to put to death by repentance?

For the Apostle wrote in the 7th chapter of Romans that the law of sin remains present in our bodily members, and so the good that we want to do we fail to do and the evil we do not want to do we keep doing anyway. This battle between the old man and the new man, the struggle to take up our cross and follow Jesus our Lord as His disciples, is a daily struggle against the old man, against the very sin that lay present in our members, the deep wound and hurt and sickness that is present in the very core of our humanity is precisely the very thing that God is saving us from, healing us from, and God is turning us away from in order that, by His grace and power, through the power of the Holy Spirit and the call of the Gospel which giving faith justifies us before God is calling us, inviting us, and moving us toward conformity with Jesus.

That we are to "have this same mind which was in Christ Jesus" that we are to "not be conformed to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of [our] minds" that God "who began the good work in [us] will continue that good work until the day of the Lord Jesus".

The Christian should not inhabit their sin gleefully, but flee from it, find refuge in Christ and call upon Him for our every need--that when our minds turn toward darkness we call out to Him that He might be the light that shines in the dark corners of our minds, our hearts, and our very souls--to expose our wickedness to the light of day, that it might be confessed freely before God who has promised us that if we confess our sins He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. That we are to hold captive every thought, we are to recognize, as the Prophet Jeremiah has spoken, that the heart is deceitful and desperately sick.

We abide in Christ, we abide in Him, daily, cling to Him, cleave to His cross. To die, again and again and again, for the Apostle has said, "To live is Christ and to die is gain" and our Lord Himself taught us, "Whoever clings to their life shall lose it, but whoever gives it away shall find it". For it is in giving ourselves away that we find, it is in dying that we live; for we have our life hidden in Christ, this we have received from God by the power of His great grace. That we might no longer be the slaves of sin, but slaves of righteousness.

The Christian is called, indeed commanded, to hold every thought captive, to confess our dark thoughts and the sick and deceitful feelings of our broken hearts. For here at the cross of the Lord Jesus Christ we fall, and Christ alone saves us, in Him alone we have justification before God, and from Him and in Him alone we are daily being sanctified as the old man is put to death, drowning in repentance, in order that we live abiding in Christ and obedience to Him our very Lord, God, and King.

Can someone translate this to Plain English, please?

There is no sin in desiring justice. This includes desiring that those guilty of major crimes be made to pay a terrible price.

I believe those who traffic women and children for sexual slavery and exploitation ought to face a punishment worse than death - one that would be the stuff of horror films. Is that wrong of me?

 

[High Fidelity]

The death penalty is unnecessary, especially in the U.S. in which this thread is likely discussing.

Supporting the unnecessary killing of someone that can be imprisoned for life is unjust, and it is unequivocally at odds with self-proclaimed 'pro-life' status.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Can someone translate this to Plain English, please?

If there is something in my post that you'd like to have clarified, I would be more than happy to do so.

There is no sin in desiring justice. This includes desiring that those guilty of major crimes be made to pay a terrible price.

Of course they should face the serious consequences of their actions. But is wishing harm on others, when Christ says we are to love them and call them to repentance, the right way? No. It's not, that is sinful.

I believe those who traffic women and children for sexual slavery and exploitation ought to face a punishment worse than death - one that would be the stuff of horror films.

There is a difference between justice (making right) and retaliation. E.g. "You hurt me, so I'm going to hurt you and your family" is not justice, it's just evil.

Is that wrong of me?

Yes. That's sin. We do not respond to evil with evil, but with good. That's what Jesus said.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ZephBonkerer]

If there is something in my post that you'd like to have clarified, I would be more than happy to do so.

This is helpful. Thank you.

Of course they should face the serious consequences of their actions. But is wishing harm on others, when Christ says we are to love them and call them to repentance, the right way? No. It's not, that is sinful.

It is not sinful. Displaying a callous indifference to the victims of these crimes is sin. If we don't force these evildoers to suffer for their actions, we are effectively saying the victims don't matter.

There is a difference between justice (making right) and retaliation. E.g. "You hurt me, so I'm going to hurt you and your family" is not justice, it's just evil.

I said those who engage in certain crimes ought to face a kind of retribution fit for a horror film. I never said anything about the family members or relatives of such people.

The criminal justice system exists to punish and to avenge the victims of crimes. And it does so in accordance with a system of laws and safeguards. With all due respect, I stand by my assertion that there is no sin in desiring retribution in certain cases. Such people can repent at their own leisure, while they are suffering the due penalty for their crimes as they deserve.

 

[ViaCrucis]

This is helpful. Thank you.


It is not sinful. Displaying a callous indifference to the victims of these crimes is sin. If we don't force these evildoers to suffer for their actions, we are effectively saying the victims don't matter.

I believe that as Christians we should base our beliefs, including our ethical and moral beliefs, on Jesus Christ and what Scripture says. Not on how we simply feel. Our feelings are fallen, sinful, and broken. When someone says something cruel to me, my gut response is to be angry, I may even want to retaliate by saying something hurtful back. But that's not right, that's wrong. That's my sinfulness.

We don't make evildoers suffer for their wrongs, that isn't God's way. We bless, we do not curse; we love, we do not hate; we preach repentance and mercy, not vengeance.

The government exists to serve the role of excecuting civil justice, so there are temporal consequences to our actions in this life. If you murder, you will face the consequences in a court of justice. The goal is not to inflict harm, to inflict suffering, to "make people pay", but to exercise and execute justice for the sake of the victims.

As far as the eternal consequences of our actions, we know that God is Judge. Which is why it is written, "Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, says the LORD." For this reason St. Paul writes in his Epistle to the Romans,

"Bless those who persecute you; bless and do not curse. Rejoice with those who rejoice, weep with those who weep. Live in harmony with one another. Do not be haughty, but associate with the lowly. Never be wise in your own sight. Repay no one evil with evil, but give thought to do what is honorable in the sight of all. If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all. Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, 'Vengeance is Mine, I will repay, says the Lord.' To the contrary, 'if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing so you will heap burning coals on his head.' Do not be overcome by evil, but overcome evil with good."" - Romans 12:14-21

Yes, those who do wicked and vile things should not only face the very real temporal consequences of their actions, but will also--apart from God's merciful saving grace--face the very real and serious eternal consequences of those actions. But Jesus commanded His Church to go out and to preach His Gospel, because He has chosen to call the wicked to repentance, to call sinners to Himself and save us.

You're a sinner, and so am I. I deserve the wrath of God, and so do you. God, who is rich in mercy, has chosen instead out of His love to save us by sending Jesus Christ, His only-begotten Son, in order that rather than perishing we might have life everlasting with God.

This is the Gospel. It's what we preach, it's what we believe.

And it means that we now, as followers of Jesus, are being changed and called to change, to repent, and do things differently, to think differently. To have our hearts and our minds transformed. To no longer walk according to the way of our sinful flesh, but to walk in the Spirit.

That means when we see people who commit great evil, rather than wishing them harm, we wish them to find peace with God, to repent, to live, and not only to live, but to live forever with God.

Remember what Paul was before his conversion? He was right there nodding his head in approval when the mob murdered Stephen the first martyr. The book of the Acts says he was "breathing murderous threats" against the Church. He was on a lengthy journey to Damascus for the express purpose of inflicting harm to the Christians there, and with the approval of the Sanhedrin in Jerusalem. And then while on that road to Damascus a blinding light appeared, and Jesus said, "Saul, why do you persecute Me?" the experience left Paul blind, his entire life shaken. But then Saul of Tarsus, Pharisee among Pharisee, persecutor of the Church, murderer of the saints; to the blessed Apostle Paul, the servant of Jesus Christ, who wrote most of the books that are in the New Testament. And in the end of his days he was beheaded for his faith in Rome by the approval of Nero.

For this reason Paul says to his disciple, Timothy, "Christ came to save sinners, and I am the chief of sinners." (1 Timothy 1:15).

Don't let your sinful emotions stifle and quench the Holy Spirit, but be renewed, be converted, be changed. Do not resist, but pray to God that He continually change your heart and renew your mind, to give you the same heart He has. The same heart He has even for the most vile--for He loves them just as much as He loves you, for you too are a sinner, deserving of His wrath and the damnation of the Law which is against you and which has already pronounced you guilty. For Christ suffered and died, and on His cross the decree of justice was made: For you, a wretched and guilty sinner. You, condemned, are declared righteous on Christ's account (Romans 5:18).

See that love which He has lavished upon you, and now love others even as you have been loved.

"If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. And if you do good to those who do good to you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. And if you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, to get back the same amount. But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return, and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, for He is kind to the thankless and the wicked. Be merciful, even as your Father is merciful." -Luke 6:32-36

I said those who engage in certain crimes ought to face a kind of retribution fit for a horror film. I never said anything about the family members or relatives of such people.

The criminal justice system exists to punish and to avenge the victims of crimes. And it does so in accordance with a system of laws and safeguards. With all due respect, I stand by my assertion that there is no sin in desiring retribution in certain cases. Such people can repent at their own leisure, while they are suffering the due penalty for their crimes as they deserve.

The role of the court is to right wrongs, not to inflict harm to those we believe deserve harm.

You, as a follower of Jesus, should also look toward the greater justice of God which is that He loves the world and forgives us all our sins. As it is written, "I am not ashamed of the Gospel, for it is the power of God to save all who believe, the Jew first and also the Greek; for by it the justice of God is revealed from faith to faith, just as it is written, 'The just shall live by faith.'" (Romans 1:16-17). The justice of God revealed is that justice by which He has had mercy on you, loving you, saving you; for He has freely justified you by His grace. You, full of sin and evil, are now redeemed, bought with the price of the precious blood of Christ, ransomed, though you deserve death and hell the same as the rest of us sinners. So God has declared you just for Christ's sake,

"For at the right time God sent His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, to redeem those who were under the Law, so that we might receive adoption as children. And because you are children, God has sent His Spirit into our hearts, crying, 'Abba! Father!' So you are no longer a slave, but a child, and if a child, then an heir through God." - Galatians 4:4-7

"For our sake He made Him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in Him we might become the righteousness of God." - 2 Corinthians 5:21

-CryptoLutheran

 

[ThisIsMe123]

This isn't about any certain flaws about the current death penalty in states that do still have them, flaws such as mistakes when innocent are executed.

Let's assume if there were no mistakes. And forget the cost, and if it even has any impact at deterring crime compared to states that have life imprisonment instead.

This will be about how God would want things done. And about giving justice and in what way will there be justice, what is the appropriate punishment?

Should a Christian support the death penalty or not?

The Old Testament had the death penalty, are we still to have it today?

One of the most obvious commandments, "Thall Shalt Not

Absolutely! Yes, Christians should support the death penalty.

Um, there is the most obvious of Commandments, "Thou shalt not kill!"

 

[lukeh]

This isn't about any certain flaws about the current death penalty in states that do still have them, flaws such as mistakes when innocent are executed.

Let's assume if there were no mistakes. And forget the cost, and if it even has any impact at deterring crime compared to states that have life imprisonment instead.

This will be about how God would want things done. And about giving justice and in what way will there be justice, what is the appropriate punishment?

Should a Christian support the death penalty or not?

The Old Testament had the death penalty, are we still to have it today?

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

 

[ZephBonkerer]

"Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

By that reasoning, we might as well have no justice system at all.

When the Pharisees brought the accused woman to Jesus, they claimed to have caught her red-handed in a crime that requires more than one person to commit. Most likely the person she was committing adultery with was among them ready to stone her. If that is so, then all of those sleazy bums were just as guilty as she was, probably more so.

As for how this relates to crime and punishment, those words by Jesus should not be intended as some general policy with regard to justice. His words was fitting for that particular time and that particular context.

 

[Aussie Pete]

This isn't about any certain flaws about the current death penalty in states that do still have them, flaws such as mistakes when innocent are executed.

Let's assume if there were no mistakes. And forget the cost, and if it even has any impact at deterring crime compared to states that have life imprisonment instead.

This will be about how God would want things done. And about giving justice and in what way will there be justice, what is the appropriate punishment?

Should a Christian support the death penalty or not?

The Old Testament had the death penalty, are we still to have it today?

The New Testament has little to say about the death penalty. It was normal in that era. If there was no death penalty, Jesus would not have been crucified and no one would be saved. That's as far as I can go on this subject.

 

[Aussie Pete]

By that reasoning, we might as well have no justice system at all.

When the Pharisees brought the accused woman to Jesus, they claimed to have caught her red-handed in a crime that requires more than one person to commit. Most likely the person she was committing adultery with was among them ready to stone her. If that is so, then all of those sleazy bums were just as guilty as she was, probably more so.

As for how this relates to crime and punishment, those words by Jesus should not be intended as some general policy with regard to justice. His words was fitting for that particular time and that particular context.

I don't believe that you can argue from silence. For all we know, the guilty man was already stoned to death. But yes, it was a specific instance, an attempt to discredit Jesus, not an argument against punishment for crimes.

 

[RDKirk]

What is "support" intended to mean?

I think various words of Jesus make it clear enough that Christians should not, on our own authority or in the name of Jesus seek the death penalty on anyone.

When the Pharisees brought the accused woman to Jesus, in their effort to trap Him, they made a tactical error: They inadvertently acknowledged Him as having the authority to interpret the Law even to denying their common interpretation of the Law. There is, btw, no codicil of the Law that required that the other guilty party must also have been apprehended and punished, nor was there a requirement of the law that the persons executing it must be perfect themselves. If the Law had such requirements, the lawyers would have been aware of it.

"Let him who is without sin..." is not in the Law ver batim...but the Law belongs to Him, and His interpretation is authoritative. Jesus did not come to condemn, but to save. Operating as His body to continue what He did on earth, "Crucify him!" should not come from a Christian mouth.

Romans 13, however, makes it clear that secular government has the authority to exact the death penalty without the approval of Christians. Paul acknowledged that authority, so we must as well. But no more than that, because if the king has the authority to wield the sword, he also has the authority to abstain from it.

It's not really an issue for most Christians, because the vast majority of us aren't in the position to execute the death penalty or pardon the condemned.

This is, I think, the most significant consideration for Christians who are in those positions. This is far more serious than what they do about abortions or gay marriages, because this action cuts off a soul from the possibility of repentance and salvation.