Are we subject to the Old Covenant today?

[SabbathBlessings]

Absolute not. But then, this passage does not speak of that at all, so I have no idea where you get that idea, smh.

Really?

Isaiah 66:17 “Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves,
To go to the gardens
[After an idol in the midst,
Eating swine’s flesh and the abomination and the mouse,
Shall be consumed together,” says the Lord.
18 “For I know their works and their thoughts. It shall be that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and see My glory. 19 I will set a sign among them; and those among them who escape I will send to the nations: to Tarshish and Pul and Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands afar off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles. 20 Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the Lord out of all nations, on horses and in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem,” says the Lord, “as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord. 21 And I will also take some of them for priests and Levites,” says the Lord.

22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

Indeed. But during the time of the Mosaic Law, God “lived” in the Temple, in the Most Holy Place (also called the Holy of Holies). But, as you said, when the veil was torn in two God ceased to “live” in the Temple. And now He lives in the hearts of the members of the Body of Christ (the Church, aka Israel).

This is not referring to the earthy temple as stated a few times already,

 

[ralliann]

Really?

Isaiah 66:17 “Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves,
To go to the gardens
[After an idol in the midst,
Eating swine’s flesh and the abomination and the mouse,
Shall be consumed together,” says the Lord.
18 “For I know their works and their thoughts. It shall be that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and see My glory. 19 I will set a sign among them; and those among them who escape I will send to the nations: to Tarshish and Pul and Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands afar off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles. 20 Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the Lord out of all nations, on horses and in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem,” says the Lord, “as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord. 21 And I will also take some of them for priests and Levites,” says the Lord.

Someone else already spoke concerning this. It is speaking of Jew's and their false worship
Lev 17, says if the Children of Israel does not bring his offerings and sacrifices to the door of the tabernacle, to the priest, He is as if he shed blood.

Lev 17:4 And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer an offering unto the LORD before the tabernacle of the LORD; blood shall be imputed unto that man; he hath shed blood; and that man shall be cut off from among his people:

Not bringing it to the altar as if they offered unto devils.
Lev 17:6 And the priest shall sprinkle the blood upon the altar of the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and burn the fat for a sweet savour unto the LORD.
7 And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.

As is spoken here of Christ....

Mt 23:17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
Mt 23:19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

Israel as a kingdom, under the kings of Israel, even kicked out the Levites, installing non levites for priests of their idol's
They created a rival religion.....

14 For the Levites left their suburbs and their possession, and came to Judah and Jerusalem: for Jeroboam and his sons had cast them off from executing the priest’s office unto the LORD:
15 And he ordained him priests for the high places, and for the devils, and for the calves which he had made.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Someone else already spoke concerning this. It is speaking of Jew's and their false worship
Lev 17, says if the Children of Israel does not bring his offerings and sacrifices to the door of the tabernacle, to the priest, He is as if he shed blood.

Lev 17:4 And bringeth it not unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, to offer an offering unto the LORD before the tabernacle of the LORD; blood shall be imputed unto that man; he hath shed blood; and that man shall be cut off from among his people:

Not bringing it to the altar as if they offered unto devils.
Lev 17:6 And the priest shall sprinkle the blood upon the altar of the LORD at the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, and burn the fat for a sweet savour unto the LORD.
7 And they shall no more offer their sacrifices unto devils, after whom they have gone a whoring. This shall be a statute for ever unto them throughout their generations.

As is spoken here of Christ....

Mt 23:17 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifieth the gold?
Mt 23:19 Ye fools and blind: for whether is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifieth the gift?

Israel as a kingdom, under the kings of Israel, even kicked out the Levites, installing non levites for priests of their idol's
They created a rival religion.....

14 For the Levites left their suburbs and their possession, and came to Judah and Jerusalem: for Jeroboam and his sons had cast them off from executing the priest’s office unto the LORD:
15 And he ordained him priests for the high places, and for the devils, and for the calves which he had made.

No, its not. Isaiah 66 is a future prophecy, not something in the past. New Heaven and New Earth is all future, God's eternal judgement all future.

 

[ralliann]

No, its not. Isaiah 66 is a future prophecy, not something in the past.

Oh ok for the kings of Israel to create a rival worship, anyone could be a priest, and cast off the Son's of Aaron and the Levites. I see.

 

[Doug Brents]

Really?

Isaiah 66:17 “Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves,
To go to the gardens
[After an idol in the midst,
Eating swine’s flesh and the abomination and the mouse,
Shall be consumed together,” says the Lord.
18 “For I know their works and their thoughts. It shall be that I will gather all nations and tongues; and they shall come and see My glory. 19 I will set a sign among them; and those among them who escape I will send to the nations: to Tarshish and Pul and Lud, who draw the bow, and Tubal and Javan, to the coastlands afar off who have not heard My fame nor seen My glory. And they shall declare My glory among the Gentiles. 20 Then they shall bring all your brethren for an offering to the Lord out of all nations, on horses and in chariots and in litters, on mules and on camels, to My holy mountain Jerusalem,” says the Lord, “as the children of Israel bring an offering in a clean vessel into the house of the Lord. 21 And I will also take some of them for priests and Levites,” says the Lord.

22 “For as the new heavens and the new earth
Which I will make shall remain before Me,” says the Lord,
“So shall your descendants and your name remain.
23 And it shall come to pass
That from one New Moon to another,
And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

The New Heaven and New Earth which I WILL MAKE…
Not yet made.

This is not referring to the earthy temple as stated a few times already,

If this does not refer to the Earthy Twmple, then it must refer to the Heavenly Temple. So you are saying that man can make the Heavenly resting place for God? No. Man can only, and did only, make the Earthly sanctuary (the Temple) for God.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The New Heaven and New Earth which I WILL MAKE…
Not yet made.

Exactly, it is a prophecy as I have been saying a few times

If this does not refer to the Earthy Twmple, then it must refer to the Heavenly Temple. So you are saying that man can make the Heavenly resting place for God? No. Man can only, and did only, make the Earthly sanctuary (the Temple) for God.

How could man make the heavenly resting place for God?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Oh ok for the kings of Israel to create a rival worship, anyone could be a priest, and cast off the Son's of Aaron and the Levites. I see.

The rival worship is led by Satan who has counterfeited everything God has created including the day of worship as we are warned Daniel 7:25.

God's saints (the saved) are priests ....

Revelation 1:6
and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10
And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.”

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Isaiah 66 is a future prophecy . . .

 

[ralliann]

The revival worship is led by Satan who has counterfeited everything God has created including the day of worship as we are warned Danile 7:25.

God's saints (the saved) are priests ....

Revelation 1:6
and has made us kings and priests to His God and Father, to Him be glory and dominion forever and ever. Amen.

Revelation 5:10
And have made us kings and priests to our God; And we shall reign on the earth.”

Revelation 20:6
Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection. Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with Him a thousand years.

Isaiah 66 is a future prophecy . . .

So, the worship spoken of in Isaiah, is reference to the rival worship? Or not?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So, the worship spoken of in Isaiah, is reference to the rival worship? Or not?

It's about judgement at this point, everyone has already made up their minds who they worship- God in Truth and Spirit or the other spirit who has deceived so many.

Revelation22: 11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

Isaiah 66:15 For behold, the Lord will come with fire
And with His chariots, like a whirlwind,
To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For by fire and by His sword
The Lord will judge all flesh;
And the slain of the Lord shall be many.
17 “Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves,
To go to the gardens After an idol in the midst,
Eating swine’s flesh and the abomination and the mouse,
Shall be consumed together,” says the Lord.

 

[Doug Brents]

Exactly, it is a prophecy as I have been saying a few times

Yes, but only that part of it is in reference to the end times. The rest is speaking to the current times.

How could man make the heavenly resting place for God?

My point exactly. That is not in reference to the Heavenly Temple, but to the Earthly Temple that the Jews returning from Babylonian captivity were about to build.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yes, but only that part of it is in reference to the end times. The rest is speaking to the current times.

My point exactly. That is not in reference to the Heavenly Temple, but to the Earthly Temple that the Jews returning from Babylonian captivity were about to build.

No its not but you're free to believe what you want.

 

[expos4ever]

If that which is good played any part in bringing death to Paul, then it would not be that which is good

This reasoning is not correct. In fact, Paul explains exactly how something that is good can, indeed, bring about his death: the Law is good, but what it acts on is fallen human nature.

But either way, you continue to clearly reject Paul's words.

He says sin took an opportunity provided by the Law to bring about Paul's death. This cannot mean anything other than that the Law did indeed play a role. You may not like this, but is the unavoidable result of taking Paul at his word - if something provides an opportunity for some other thing to do something, that first thing still plays a role, even if a rather small one.

And then there is this:

but when the commandment came, sin came to life, and I died

Paul is clear again: the commandment was at least part of the reason why sin came to life (and Paul died).

You may not like this, but there is simply no wiggle room here if we honour what words means and how sentences express meaning.

 

[ralliann]

It's about judgement at this point, everyone has already made up their minds who they worship- God in Truth and Spirit or the other spirit who has deceived so many.

Revelation22: 11 He who is unjust, let him be unjust still; he who is filthy, let him be filthy still; he who is righteous, let him be righteous still; he who is holy, let him be holy still.”

Isaiah 66:15 For behold, the Lord will come with fire
And with His chariots, like a whirlwind,
To render His anger with fury,
And His rebuke with flames of fire.
16 For by fire and by His sword
The Lord will judge all flesh;
And the slain of the Lord shall be many.
17 “Those who sanctify themselves and purify themselves,
To go to the gardens After an idol in the midst,
Eating swine’s flesh and the abomination and the mouse,
Shall be consumed together,” says the Lord.

Ok,, The false priesthood Sanctified themselves in the gardens? Ok they set up idols. Created a false religion to prevent the people from returning to jerusalemto worship. Of course Judah later fell into the same thing. The point is this passages is not concerning the temple or it's ministry by the son's of Aaron or the Levites.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Ok,, The false priesthood Sanctified themselves in the gardens? Ok they set up idols. Created a false religion to prevent the people from returning to jerusalemto worship. Of course Judah later fell into the same thing. The point is this passages is not concerning the temple or its ministry by the son's of Aaron or the Levites.

Yes, we cannot sanctify or purify ourselves, only God can sanctify us, and we are sanctified by the Truth of His Word John 17:17 Ezekiel 20:12 all of God's commandments are Truth Psalms 119:151 and many put their trust in their works over God's Exodus 32:16, their truth over God's Psalms 119:151 their righteousness (version of right-doing) over God's Psalms 119:172

You keep thinking the temple here is the literal temple and Jerusalem is the literal Jerusalem, this is prophecy . . .judgement of God is the last day, that has not happened.

 

[Doug Brents]

No its not but you're free to believe what you want.

What part of that is not true? Part of my comment was in agreement with you. Are you now saying you were wrong in what I agreed with? Please make a statement of your own; this “No, it isn’t” stuff is pitiful.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

What part of that is not true? Part of my comment was in agreement with you. Are you now saying you were wrong in what I agreed with? Please make a statement of your own; this “No, it isn’t” stuff is pitiful.

I stated probably at least 3-5 times this verse is not referring to the earthy temple so disagreeing on this same topic one more time is not really doing anyone any good, so like I said you are free to believe what you want, I stated my reasons with scripture and if you want to believe something else, that's your choice.

 

[ralliann]

Yes, we cannot sanctify or purify ourselves, only God can sanctify us, and we are sanctified by the Truth of His Word John 17:17 Ezekiel 20:12 all of God's commandments are Truth Psalms 119:151 and many put their trust in their works over God's Exodus 32:16, their truth over God's Psalms 119:151 their righteousness (version of right-doing) over God's Psalms 119:172

You keep thinking the temple here is the literal temple and Jerusalem is the literal Jerusalem, this is prophecy . . .judgement of God is the last day, that has not happened.

No, I don't think the temple is here? The temple was literal and it was/is a major aspect of the Mosaic covenant. I gave you those scriptures to show you, what the law says. The swines flesh etc, did not and does not need to speak of literal pigs. Nor does the circumcision spoken of need to be literal. That was my point. To not bring the offerings to the lawful place, to the lawful ministers, to the lawful altar was likened to those things.

 

[Lulav]

And then there is this:

but when the commandment came, sin came to life, and I died

Paul is clear again: the commandment was at least part of the reason why sin came to life (and Paul died).

Was Paul living in the 1300's bce? That's when the commandments were given and written down.

Why do you and others assume an inanimate thing (sin) can have these powers?
To 'come to life'?

He says when sin came to life he died. But that' s not what he told the Philippians:

5-6 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;Concerning zeal, persecuting the church;​

​

touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.​

So when did he 'die'?

 

[HIM]

Was Paul living in the 1300's bce? That's when the commandments were given and written down.

Why do you and others assume an inanimate thing (sin) can have these powers?
To 'come to life'?

He says when sin came to life he died. But that' s not what he told the Philippians:

5-6 Circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, an Hebrew of the Hebrews; as touching the law, a Pharisee;Concerning zeal, persecuting the church;​

​

touching the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.​

So when did he 'die'?

When he sinned. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

No, I don't think the temple is here? The temple was literal and it was/is a major aspect of the Mosaic covenant. I gave you those scriptures to show you, what the law says. The swines flesh etc, did not and does not need to speak of literal pigs. Nor does the circumcision spoken of need to be literal. That was my point. To not bring the offerings to the lawful place, to the lawful ministers, to the lawful altar was likened to those things.

There was a literal temple, but God minsters from a heavenly Temple now, not made with mans hands. This passage is referring to future- judgement which has not happened, and why it is a prophecy and also a warning, Anyway, we went through this already so I will leave it as we will have to agree to disagree.