How many Gentiles and Samaritans could have been saved if Jesus would have sent some disciples there?

[zoidar]

The purpose of the parable/analogy is to show the Religious leaders who opposed him the tremendously strong relationship of Jesus to His Father and His followers. And to show the leaders that they stand outside that.

Sometimes it's good to stop and ask what the purpose might be of a text. Good point! Thanks John!

 

[Hammster]

Do got any Biblical passages to support this view? Other than possibly the sheep parables?

Why isn’t that enough?

 

[zoidar]

Why isn’t that enough?

If you only have this in sheep analogies, I would say it's indicating that something is wrong with our understanding. I'm not even sure how you see it in the sheep analogies.

 

[Dah'veed]

Okay. That’s not the subject of the OP, though.

"How many Gentiles were lost ..."​

The subject of the OP implies that Gentiles were left out in the cold when the reality is that those who believed were grafted in and unbelieving Jews stumbled.
The Gentiles have obtained the righteousness that is by faith; but the people of Israel who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. As it is written: “See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble..." Rom 9:30-33

They stumble because they do not believe the message. 1 Peter 2:4-10

 

[Hammster]

If you only have this in sheep analogies, I would say it's indicating that something is wrong with our understanding. I'm not even sure how you see it in the sheep analogies.

Again, why?

 

[Hammster]

"How many Gentiles were lost ..."​

The subject of the OP implies that Gentiles were left out in the cold when the reality is that those who believed were grafted in and unbelieving Jews stumbled.
The Gentiles have obtained the righteousness that is by faith; but the people of Israel who pursued the law as the way of righteousness, have not attained their goal. Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone. As it is written: “See, I lay in Zion a stone that causes people to stumble..." Rom 9:30-33

They stumble because they do not believe the message. 1 Peter 2:4-10

That’s not the OP. You can’t take part of the title and make it say what you want. You have to see what the author’s intention was. Thankfully, post #1 does just that.

 

[zoidar]

Again, why?

Isn't that obvious? If we seem to find an important, doctrinal teaching only in the parables, not mentioned anywhere else in the Bible, it can't be right since doctrinal teachings are revisited over and over again in the Bible. You don't find it strange there is no mention of this at all in the letters?

 

[Hammster]

Isn't that obvious? If we seem to find an important, doctrinal teaching only in the parables, not mentioned anywhere else in the Bible, it can't be right since doctrinal teachings are revisited over and over again in the Bible. You don't find it strange there is no mention of this at all in the letters?

I’ll humor you for a moment. Why is John 10 in the Bible?

 

[zoidar]

I’ll humor you for a moment. Why is John 10 in the Bible?

There are not just one or two reasons. There are lots of reasons and all of them I don't even think we will know.

Why don't you tell me instead why you think John 10 is teaching this? That an unbelieving sheep has a different nature.

 

[Hammster]

Why don't you tell me instead why you think John 10 is teaching this? That an unbelieving sheep has a different nature.

I’ve already told what I think is being taught, and now you are saying John 10 can’t be right. So why is it even there?

 

[zoidar]

I’ve already told what I think is being taught, and now you are saying John 10 can’t be right. So why is it even there?

I'm not saying John 10 can't be right. Where have I said that? I'm saying you have found theories from John 10 that is not supported in Scripture at all. I don't think, certainly hope it's not a teaching among Reformers that people, sheep from birth have different nature than others. Sorry, but it's not in the Bible.

 

[Hammster]

I'm not saying John 10 can't be right. Where have I said that? I'm saying you have found theories from John 10 that is not supported in Scripture at all. I don't think, certainly hope it's not a teaching among Reformers that people, sheep from birth have different nature than others. Sorry, but it's not in the Bible.

Okay, so let’s go back to this.

But you do not believe because you are not of My sheep.
— John 10:26

We have two options. Either everyone is a sheep, and these particular men are not part of His flock, or they are something other than sheep. Which way do you want to land?

 

[biblelesson]

These twelve Jesus sent out after instructing them: “Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
— Matthew 10:5-6

So here we have Jesus deliberately telling His disciples to not go to the Gentiles nor the Samaritans. How many Gentiles and Samaritans could have been saved if Jesus would have sent some disciples there?

Having understanding of the Bible tells you why Jesus told his disciples to not go to the Gentiles.

The New Covenant had not happened yet because Jesus was still alive and therefore under the Old Testament. The Jews, based on the Old Testament law that existed were not to associate with Gentiles. Jesus could not break His own law.

However, after Jesus death, Gentiles could be saved under the New Testament. That was the reason for Jesus giving His life, to die for the sins of the world, to include Gentiles. After His death He went to Apostle Paul to take the Good News to the Gentiles.

Now how many Gentiles do you think have been saved from the time of Jesus death on the cross some 2000 years ago compared to the few you think were not saved. That was a short span of time from the time Jesus told his disciples to not go to the Gentiles to the time of His death on the cross, so under the New Testament they were able to be saved after Jesus died.

Now you are asking why the King of Kings and Lord of Lord did not save Gentiles during the time He was alive on earth, when that was His purpose all along. He came to die for us all, Jews and Gentiles.

 

[Hammster]

Having understanding of the Bible tells you why Jesus told his disciples to not go to the Gentiles.

The New Covenant had not happened yet because Jesus was still alive and therefore under the Old Testament. The Jews, based on the Old Testament law that existed were not to associate with Gentiles. Jesus could not break His own law.

However, after Jesus death, Gentiles could be saved under the New Testament. That was the reason for Jesus giving His life, to die for the sins of the world, to include Gentiles. After His death He went to Apostle Paul to take the Good News to the Gentiles.

Now how many Gentiles do you think have been saved from the time of Jesus death on the cross some 2000 years ago compared to the few you think were not saved. That was a short span of time from the time Jesus told his disciples to not go to the Gentiles to the time of His death on the cross, so under the New Testament they were able to be saved after Jesus died.

Now you are asking why the King of Kings and Lord of Lord did not save Gentiles during the time He was alive on earth, when that was His purpose all along. He came to die for us all, Jews and Gentiles.

The argument I get from many is that Jesus loves everyone the same, and wants none to perish. But even in your statement, that idea cannot be born out due to the fact that even in His earthly ministry He didn’t try to save everyone.

 

[biblelesson]

How could they have been saved if Jesus said to exclude them?

Jesus did not exclude them. His main purpose was to include them upon His death. Just at that time the Old Testament existed which does not include Gentiles. He had to die for them to open up salvation for them, which then included Jews and Gentiles.

Ephesians 2:15-17, “
15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments (Old Testament) contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

16 And that he might reconcile both (Jews and Gentiles)unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:

17 And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.

 

[Hammster]

Jesus did not exclude them. His main purpose was to include them upon His death.

How many died before His death? How many perished in the many years after His death and before the gospel reached them?

 

[biblelesson]

How many died before His death? How many perished in the many years after His death and before the gospel reached them?

How many died from the time God established the Old Testament Covenant with the children of Israel under Moses? That was the same covenant Jesus was under. Then your beef is with God!

 

[Hammster]

How many died from the time God established the Old Testament Covenant with the children of Israel under Moses? That was the same covenant Jesus was under. Then your beef is with God!

I don’t have a beef with God. My argument is against those who think God actively tries to save everyone, despite evidence to the contrary.

 

[biblelesson]

The argument I get from many is that Jesus loves everyone the same, and wants none to perish. But even in your statement, that idea cannot be born out due to the fact that even in His earthly ministry He didn’t try to save everyone.

He could not save anyone at that time because in order for you or me or anyone to be saved before a Holy God, there must be a sacrifice that includes the shedding of blood; he had to die, Hebrews 9:22. Jesus was still alive.

The wages of sin is death, Romans 6:23, and no person on earth would have escaped judgment without Jesus.

 

[Hammster]

He could not save anyone at that time because in order for you or me or anyone to be saved before a Holy God, there must be a sacrifice that includes the shedding of blood; he had to die, Hebrews 9:22. Jesus was still alive.

The wages of sin is death, Romans 6:23, and no person on earth would have escaped judgment without Jesus.

That doesn’t go against my argument.