Russian priests may be defrocked.

[Nick1000]

'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me."

So for example, it is 1940. And in the next town over the Jews are being loaded on to the trains to be sent to the ovens.

Am I not serving Christ by doing what I can to minimize those numbers, through either direct action or through speaking the truth as I see it as an attempt or hope to influence those involved? Whether it be my government or the other or both or several. others too? I get that I may see it wrong but that possibility always exists for everyone all the time- and can be used as an excuse for failing to acknowledge right and wrong which is spiritual cowardice.

I am asking, not arguing against?

 

[archer75]

The clergy who are preaching against a military action are doing just that: preaching against a military action. Anyone can do that, even if they have not Christ abiding in them. If trying to erase a people from the face of the earth is a sin, then why did God do it in Noah's time and why did God order the Israelites to do it to the Canaanites? I agree that murder and rape are sins, and these ought not be happening. War, however, is war. It is a military action that has been waged by great saints. My patron saint, David, being very notably among them. But the fourth Chapter of James is a good place to begin looking for right answers about these things. What we see is a lot of people making sweeping generalizations condemning, automatically, any military invasion as an evil act, when it's not necessarily the case.

Specific orders from God are exceptional.

Wars conducted without orders from God, with the express purposes of killing the civilian population, are sin. Period. Saying "war is war" does not mean that sin is not sin.

Take note that saints who have engaged in war are known for their repentance. The present government of the RF is against repentance. Support for the RF's war against unarmed civilians is an anti-repentance and therefore anti-Christian cult that worships a creature instead of Christ.

I think very few clergy in the ROC would preach against this sin if they were not trying to serve Christ, as preaching against it can lead only to unpleasant or deadly consequences. You seem to suggest that each clergyman on that list is being personally bankrolled by George Soros. did I understand right?

 

[archer75]

'Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me."

So for example, it is 1940. And in the next town over the Jews are being loaded on to the trains to be sent to the ovens.

Am I not serving Christ by doing what I can to minimize those numbers, through either direct action or through speaking the truth as I see it as an attempt or hope to influence those involved. Whether it be my government or the other or both or several.?

I am asking, not arguing against?

Or: those in the next town over are largely Orthodox Christians, including children, who are slated for execution.

According to you, @truefiction1 ...if I understand right, no clergy should make any remark about this?

 

[truefiction1]

Or: those in the next town over are largely Orthodox Christians, including children, who are slated for execution.

According to you, @truefiction1 ...if I understand right, no clergy should make any remark about this?

If I thought that this war was about extermination of a people, I would protest as well. I don't believe that it is.

 

[archer75]

If I thought that this war was about extermination of a people, I would protest as well. I don't believe that it is.

I understand. I get my information about the goals of the war from public statements by Russian officials and Russian propaganda sites. But I understand that you have different sources of information.

 

[Platina]

I understand. I get my information about the goals of the war from public statements by Russian officials and Russian propaganda sites. But I understand that you have different sources of information.

There's apparently a difference between what some guys are saying and what's actually happpening. People can say whatever they want - but we ain't seeing anything like a genocide. It's the most Russian areas that they're destroying.

 

[ArmyMatt]

There's apparently a difference between what some guys are saying and what's actually happpening. People can say whatever they want - but we ain't seeing anything like a genocide. It's the most Russian areas that they're destroying.

most of the calls for peace at least that I have seen have come from the UOC-MP, only to be rejected by the MP.

 

[Platina]

most of the calls for peace at least that I have seen have come from the UOC-MP, only to be rejected by the MP.

Unfortuntately, Patriarch Kirill has basically decided to be Patriarch of Russia, rather than Patriarch of the multi-national Moscow Patriarchate.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Unfortuntately, Patriarch Kirill has basically decided to be Patriarch of Russia, rather than Patriarch of the multi-national Moscow Patriarchate.

it certainly seems that way, I hope it’s not the case or calmer heads start to prevail.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I thought Patriarch Kirill was the patriarch of Russia? ‍

 

[Platina]

I thought Patriarch Kirill was the patriarch of Russia? ‍

But the Moscow Patriarchate is much bigger than just Russia. And in this case, he's clearly siding with Russia and against Ukraine, which was also supposed to be his flock. The UOC saw that they had been abandoned and so separted from the MP.

BTW, his title of "Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia" is actually an inaccurate translation, though it's widely accepted one. His title is actually "Patriarch of Moscow and All Rus'." But then, the MP spreads even much further than historical Rus'.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

But the Moscow Patriarchate is much bigger than just Russia. And in this case, he's clearly siding with Russia and against Ukraine, which was also supposed to be his flock. The UOC saw that they had been abandoned and so separated from the MP.

BTW, his title of "Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia" is actually an inaccurate translation, though it's widely accepted one. His title is actually "Patriarch of Moscow and All Rus'." But then, the MP spreads even much further than historical Rus'.

I would say that the Patriarch mostly likely doesn't see himself "against Ukraine" as you are saying. What does that mean---"against Ukraine?" Against the people? Against the government? Against the Church there? Many Russians see Ukraine as Russia. Many see this as a war to actually protect Ukraine from joining NATO. Not all Ukrainians were pro-NATO nor were they all pro-EU. I would speculate that the Patriarch sees the war as Russia vs. NATO, not Russia vs. Ukraine. Ukraine, from Putin's point of view, is a pawn in the game of NATO trying to crush Russia. I happen to agree with that assessment. NATO is using Ukrainians as fodder. They have said they will "fight to the last Ukrainian." They're chess pieces. Sadly, Putin is also using the Russian conscripts, prisoners, and a few other groups as fodder, to be honest. But, Russia sees this as a war of civilization, and NATO is blatantly an atheist, anti-Orthodox, pro-LGBT, modernist institution that has zero concern for Ukrainians. This is all strategic hegemony. The fact that the Patriarch of Russia sees his flock in Ukraine as victims of NATO aggression and is willing to support the invasion, that doesn't mean necessarily that he's "against" them.

 

[truefiction1]

But the Moscow Patriarchate is much bigger than just Russia. And in this case, he's clearly siding with Russia and against Ukraine, which was also supposed to be his flock. The UOC saw that they had been abandoned and so separted from the MP.

BTW, his title of "Patriarch of Moscow and All Russia" is actually an inaccurate translation, though it's widely accepted one. His title is actually "Patriarch of Moscow and All Rus'." But then, the MP spreads even much further than historical Rus'.

Ukrainian samosviat is likely who he's against mostly.

 

[Lukaris]

I think after centuries of subjugation, the Ukrainians will take their chances elsewhere. If loyalties were so divided, it is amazing that Ukraine has resisted so steadfastly. The only reasonable exception to this was Russia taking control of Crimea in 2014 where there was genuine popular support.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I think there is also that it seems like there is no distinction being made between the UOC and the OCU, and even when Met Onufrey has asked for hostilities to cease it hasn’t really been honored.

 

[rusmeister]

To preach the truth about sin is not the same as taking a stance on weather a military action by a people is correct or incorrect. There's only one war that we need to be engaged in, and it's waged only inside of the arena of our hearts, and unseen by others. The other wars will happen regardless of what men say or do. An Orthodox Christian is not required to take a particular side, especially when all sides are being driven by demons.

The Orthodox priests in Russia ARE being required to take a side by the Russian Church hierarchy.

 

[Justin-H.S.]

St. Nicholas of Japan told his Japanese congregation to side with their countrymen (Japan) during the Russo-Japanese War.

 

[truefiction1]

The Orthodox priests in Russia ARE being required to take a side by the Russian Church hierarchy.

What did Abba Pambo say about the clerics in the last times?:

A monk once asked Abba Pambo, “Is it true, Abba, that the customs and traditions of Christians will change and there will be no priests in the churches?”

The Elder answered,
“In those days, the love of many will grow cold and great distress will fall upon them. There will be raiding of nations, migrations of peoples, unstable Kings, rulers will be corrupt, the priests will become prodigals, and the monks will live negligently.

The clergy will be indifferent concerning their own salvation, but also that of their flock. All of them will be ready to run first to the table, and they will be quarrelsome, lazy at their prayers but eager to criticize, and ready to accuse.

They will neither want to imitate nor listen to the lives and counsels of Elders, but mostly, they will be all talk and say: "Had we lived in their days, we would fight too"...

The bishops of those times will again be subservient to the powerful, and they will make decisions according to the gifts they receive...

They will not defend the poor when they are accused.

They will grieve the widows and harass the orphans.

Infidelity, immorality, hatred, enmity, jealousy, strife, theft, drunkenness, rampant entertainment, adultery, fornication, murder and robbery will also enter into people’s lives.”

The brother then said: “And what can one do in such difficult times?”

And the Elder answered: “My child, in such days the one who wants and tries to save his soul will be saved, and he will be called great in the Kingdom of Heaven.”

IMHO, you are in those times now, and so "“Whoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved” (Romans 10:13). This probably points to regular chanting of the Psalms and unceasing recitation of the Jesus Prayer, along with practicing the virtues to keep your lamp filled with oil like the wise virgins. To heck with those hierarchs. Keep me in your prayers also.

 

[archer75]

I think there is also that it seems like there is no distinction being made between the UOC and the OCU, and even when Met Onufrey has asked for hostilities to cease it hasn’t really been honored.

Despite how he was talked up as a saint in 2018 for not leaving the MP.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Despite how he was talked up as a saint in 2018 for not leaving the MP.

the godly are often beset on all sides.