Would you ever vote for a lawmaker who supports murdering babies?

[chevyontheriver]

This was true centuries, thousand of years, ago.... but seems like , as happens, people forget.

That's why there is salvation in no political party.

Our problems include about half of the voters think there is salvation in the Republican Party and the other half thinks there is salvation in the Democratic Party. Then there are a few who think there is salvation in some third party. None of them got it figured that salvation is in Jesus Christ alone. Even those who pay lip service to that.

 

[Aaron112]

But the fact that we have such a concept is prime evidence that we are just not right in our souls. Plenty of empirical evidence that we are not right.

"empirical" and tons of other 'evidence' agrees. "We"/ humans/ are not right.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Disclaimer: I don't know the 'total depravity' view or whatever that is.

That would be the view that could say "... because mankind is absolutely evil and full of wickednesses, even planning during the night, in bed, new wickednesses for the next day."

You may not know the terminology but I think that's what your view is called. Of course correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Aaron112]

That's why there is salvation in no political party.

Our problems include about half of the voters think there is salvation in the Republican Party and the other half thinks there is salvation in the Democratic Party. Then there are a few who think there is salvation in some third party. None of them got it figured that salvation is in Jesus Christ alone. Even those who pay lip service to that.

At first it appeared , at first glance, like there is salvation "being" in no political party.
I agree that there is no political party that is able to give salvation,
and that people with no polital party may or may not be saved, as God Pleases.

 

[GodLovesCats]

I agree more needs to be done for mothers, babies, families, and parents in general. I personally support tax credits, Free Birth, paid maternity or paternity leave,etc. We may have to do so as the population is declining and we need young people to replace the large elderly generation, and people are not having children as they deem that too expensive in our times. Many women get abortions because they feel they have no other choice.

The reason she has no other choice can also be school (especially full-time college students) or having a low-wage job that results in living, as they say, "from paycheck to paycheck." That type of job never has enough paid maternity leave BTW. I want to see programs where women are assigned female pregnancy/maternity counselors for help with the psychological effects of their medical and childcare issues and job training coordinators so they can get living wage jobs that do not require leaving home. And of course no employers should be allowed to make the rules on paid maternity/paternity leave. It should be guaranteed for all new moms and dads by a federal law

Regarding tax credits, they are needed for all people in poverty, whether they are pregnant or not. What mother-specific tax credits do you have in mind?

Many pro life organizations and churches do indeed help mothers in crisis pregnancies. The church I belong to has " Christian Life Resources." as a para-church organization. So does the Catholic church, and other churches.

That is what churches say, but not what they do, if you are talking about crisis pregnancy centers. I have done research on CPCs and learned all of them only do more harm than good because all they care about is gaining church memberships. Simply telling me a church you belong to does the right thing for everyone seeking an abortion at a CPC is not proof of anything. A Catholic CPC might give away some crib bedding, onesies, bottles, and diapers to other Catholics, but they turn away everyone who is not a heterosexual Christian and lie about what their services are. I have read about CPCs with a "Learn to Earn" program, in which taking a class about Catholicism is required before they can buy stuff for babies. At those places, no baby supplies are free. It is all about converting more people to Catholicism to them, not helping people most in need of the services that CPCs dishonestly claim to provide. All this is in addition to the fact they can't provide a single cent to anyone seeking an abortion because she has no money to take care of a baby. The first thing people need to take care of a baby is a thousand dollars.

I believe life begins at conception.

Life obviously cannot begin at conception in the case of monozygotic twins, but others, that is a repeatedly proven biological fact.

However I am realistic that there will have to be exceptions in our laws, most especially of course, the life of the mother. I believe once the baby is viable outside the womb, there should be no abortion. The life of the child at that time must be saved. This should not be politicized, but unfortunately, like so many other things in our day, it is.

So if the obstetrician knows the fetus can never be viable outside the womb, you would support an abortion? I can agree with that.

 

[Aaron112]

That would be the view that could say "... because mankind is absolutely evil and full of wickednesses, even planning during the night, in bed, new wickednesses for the next day."

That is basic Scripture, not related to man's ideas added later re total depravity.

You may not know the terminology but I think that's what your view is called. Of course correct me if I'm wrong.

I think you're wrong in this: The concept/dogma/doctrine/teachings associated with "total depravity" may be very very wrong.
Thus I never learnt total depravity as a teaching, way of life/or death/ , or doctrine or anything,
and do not go along with those who hold to all that may go along with it.

 

[chevyontheriver]

At first it appeared , at first glance, like there is salvation "being" in no political party.

No. There is no salvation either in not being part of a political party, or in not voting. Salvation is in Christ alone. Then we can vote and do some good. But people seem to prefer to be political first and Christian second. That's backwards.

There is a political party mostly in Europe called the 'Christian Democrats'. When they were Christian first they did a lot of good.

 

[LizaMarie]

This is a hard choice for me personally.

I only say this because I see some members of my family who have had demon children, AKA, children they weren't really supposed to have, as my mother once told me.

I've even seen it with myself as well. So again, it's a really hard choice.

God has a plan for your life, if you trust Him.

The reason she has no other choice can also be school (especially full-time college students) or having a low-wage job that results in living, as they say, "from paycheck to paycheck." That type of job never has enough paid maternity leave BTW. I want to see programs where women are assigned female pregnancy/maternity counselors for help with the psychological effects of their medical and childcare issues and job training coordinators so they can get living wage jobs that do not require leaving home. And of course no employers should be allowed to make the rules on paid maternity/paternity leave. It should be guaranteed for all new moms and dads by a federal law

Regarding tax credits, they are needed for all people in poverty, whether they are pregnant or not. What mother-specific tax credits do you have in mind?



That is what churches say, but not what they do, if you are talking about crisis pregnancy centers. I have done research on CPCs and learned all of them only do more harm than good because all they care about is gaining church memberships. Simply telling me a church you belong to does the right thing for everyone seeking an abortion at a CPC is not proof of anything. A Catholic CPC might give away some crib bedding, onesies, bottles, and diapers to other Catholics, but they turn away everyone who is not a heterosexual Christian and lie about what their services are. I have read about CPCs with a "Learn to Earn" program, in which taking a class about Catholicism is required before they can buy stuff for babies. At those places, no baby supplies are free. It is all about converting more people to Catholicism to them, not helping people most in need of the services that CPCs dishonestly claim to provide. All this is in addition to the fact they can't provide a single cent to anyone seeking an abortion because she has no money to take care of a baby. The first thing people need to take care of a baby is a thousand dollars.



Life obviously cannot begin at conception in the case of monozygotic twins, but others, that is a repeatedly proven biological fact.



So if the obstetrician knows the fetus can never be viable outside the womb, you would support an abortion? I can agree with that.

Viable as able to survive outside the mother's woman womb. This would be at 20 weeks or even earlier. Then the life must be respected and saved. Personally I believe life should be saved from conception on, as it is a child of God. And yes, that includes the severely disabled. I have a severely disabled grandson I'm sure the eugenicists would have loved to have gotten rid of, but his life matters and he is loved by God, and his family.(He is adopted by my stepdaughter and her husband.)They stepped up and adopted an unwanted disable child. He is now 12. I also have an autistic grandson. They are precious in God's sight.

 

[LizaMarie]

`The Republicans COULD come up with a good nominee. They have done so before. But I think what I would like to see is the American Solidarity Party recruit former Democratic Party Representative Dan Lipinski to run for president. He's the one the Democrats continually attacked and finally removed in a primary by spending tons of money against him. Up to then he was the last pro-life Democrat in national office. Sort of proof of the depravity of the Democratic Party. I don't see him as an ambitious guy so it would take some real coaxing to get him to accept that nomination. He probably wouldn't win in a Trump vs new Democrat situation but he would be a decent and capable and moral choice. DeSantis might be one of those too. We'll see.

Yes I remember what happened to Dan Lapinski. Made me angry. Personally I don't think Trump is going to be the nominee. I hope not. If he is he will not win the general, and I think the RNC knows it.
He(Trump) has a lot of baggage and even some evangelicals are turning against him. I've read articles from some saying they won't support him again and want a different candidate. Plus I believe he lost the "swing" vote in 2020 which is why he lost. He could go third party(would take money though ,which he won't get from the RNC and he would have to try to get on the ballot in all states.) which would basically sink the candidacy of the Republican Nominee.

 

[chevyontheriver]

That is what churches say, but not what they do, if you are talking about crisis pregnancy centers. I have done research on CPCs and learned all of them only do more harm than good because all they care about is gaining church memberships. Simply telling me a church you belong to does the right thing for everyone seeking an abortion at a CPC is not proof of anything. A Catholic CPC might give away some crib bedding, onesies, bottles, and diapers to other Catholics, but they turn away everyone who is not a heterosexual Christian and lie about what their services are. I have read about CPCs with a "Learn to Earn" program, in which taking a class about Catholicism is required before they can buy stuff for babies. At those places, no baby supplies are free. It is all about converting more people to Catholicism to them, not helping people most in need of the services that CPCs dishonestly claim to provide. All this is in addition to the fact they can't provide a single cent to anyone seeking an abortion because she has no money to take care of a baby. The first thing people need to take care of a baby is a thousand dollars.

Can you substantiate this by providing the identity of a few Crisis Pregancy Centers that are like this? Just a few CPC names and addresses and phone numbers so this can be verified. I'm VERY curious because I have never seen any of that.

 

[GodLovesCats]

God has a plan for your life, if you trust Him.

Viable as able to survive outside the mother's woman womb. This would be at 20 weeks or even earlier. Then the life must be respected and saved. Personally I believe life should be saved from conception on, as it is a child of God. And yes, that includes the severely disabled. I have a severely disabled grandson I'm sure the eugenicists would have loved to have gotten rid of, but his life matters and he is loved by God, and his family.(He is adopted by my stepdaughter and her husband.)They stepped up and adopted an unwanted disable child. He is now 12. I also have an autistic grandson. They are precious in God's sight.

Everyone who learned anything about fetal development knows the minimum viability age for a normal human fetus is almost always 24 weeks. Some babies have been born earlier only because their mothers had medical emergencies or went into labor too early, but all of them lived in the hospital's NICU for more than a month before they could go home and many developed disabilities as a result of being born too early. If I was an obstetrician, I would do whatever it took to prevent the mother from going into labor early unless she was having a medical emergency.

No child born before 21 weeks survived. Only one child born during the 21st week survived. Because of the extremely high severe disability risk for all premature babies, I want to see medical research on thousands of pregnant women to minimize the number of early births.

 

[Derf]

I have done research on CPCs and learned all of them only do more harm than good because all they care about is gaining church memberships

You've been called on this multiple times, yet you keep posting it. It is not true and you lie by continuing to post it. Please stop demeaning the character of all those Christians without providing evidence.

 

[GodLovesCats]

You've been called on this multiple times, yet you keep posting it. It is not true and you lie by continuing to post it. Please stop demeaning the character of all those Christians without providing evidence.

I will stop posting it when I have no reasons to post it anymore. Posting Catholic church links is not proof. To prove me wrong, people have to post totally unbiased sources with no religious affiliation that say exactly the same things Catholic websites do about CPCs. I have not seen any such links either here or on Google.

 

[chevyontheriver]

Yes I remember what happened to Dan Lapinski. Made me angry. Personally I don't think Trump is going to be the nominee. I hope not. If he is he will not win the general, and I think the RNC knows it.
He(Trump) has a lot of baggage and even some evangelicals are turning against him. I've read articles from some saying they won't support him again and want a different candidate. Plus I believe he lost the "swing" vote in 2020 which is why he lost. He could go third party(would take money though ,which he won't get from the RNC and he would have to try to get on the ballot in all states.) which would basically sink the candidacy of the Republican Nominee.

He was never MY candidate. Nor was he preferred by a huge chunk of Republicans. But he got massive media support and won a series of key open primaries where crossover voting was allowed. When he got the nomination the media turned instantly against him in a four year battle to destroy him. I think it was a Hillary ploy to hand pick her opponent, but like everything else she did, she botched it and Trump surprisingly won. I think that made the Dems hopping mad. So when Covid happened they had their way of defeating him. First complaining that he was xenophobic in setting up travel restrictions, and then that 'his' vaccine wouldn't be safe, and then condemning anybody who didn't get the vaccine as a Trump fanatic, and on and on. Looking back it was comic.

Anyhow, Trump's time has come, and gone. I don't know if he can figure that out though. He only got to where he was because some Hillary strategist thought he would be easy to beat. He was not the best pick from the 2016 Republican candidates, most of whom could have easily beaten Hillary and been fine presidents. Rubio and Cruz, Fiorina and so many more would have been fine.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I will stop posting it when I have no reasons to post it anymore. Posting Catholic church links is not proof. To prove me wrong, people have to post totally unbiased sources with no religious affiliation that say exactly the same things Catholic websites do about CPCs. I have not seen any such links either here or on Google.

No. All we have to do is ask you for your proof, as in the contact information for the 'offending' crisis pregnancy centers. You wouldn't have posted what you did without proof, would you? So show your work. Name names.

 

[chevyontheriver]

No child born before 21 weeks survived. Only one child born during the 21st week survived. Because of the extremely high severe disability risk for all premature babies, I want to see medical research on thousands of pregnant women to minimize the number of early births.

The record youngest pre-term surviving baby is just under 19 weeks. Sorry but your information is a bit off. Born at Children's Hospital in Minneapolis in 2020.

Please, when you state things as facts, have the facts.

 

[LizaMarie]

He was never MY candidate. Nor was he preferred by a huge chunk of Republicans. But he got massive media support and won a series of key open primaries where crossover voting was allowed. When he got the nomination the media turned instantly against him in a four year battle to destroy him. I think it was a Hillary ploy to hand pick her opponent, but like everything else she did, she botched it and Trump surprisingly won. I think that made the Dems hopping mad. So when Covid happened they had their way of defeating him. First complaining that he was xenophobic in setting up travel restrictions, and then that 'his' vaccine wouldn't be safe, and then condemning anybody who didn't get the vaccine as a Trump fanatic, and on and on. Looking back it was comic.

Anyhow, Trump's time has come, and gone. I don't know if he can figure that out though. He only got to where he was because some Hillary strategist thought he would be easy to beat. He was not the best pick from the 2016 Republican candidates, most of whom could have easily beaten Hillary and been fine presidents. Rubio and Cruz, Fiorina and so many more would have been fine.

I have long said that Trump became the nominee because in crossover primary elections in states where it is allowed Democrats and Independents voted for him as you indicated. Or The "Swing" vote. He lost a lot of that swing vote in 2020 although his base remained with him. Internal polling showed this. In 2016 a lot of those who were against Donald Trump(but did not want Hilary.) stayed home as they thought there was no way he was actually going to win. They didn't make that mistake in 2020 and hence he lost. Not voting FOR Biden but against Trump.
I agree, I think any of the other Republicans in the primaries in 2016 would have made fine Presidents. Jeb Bush, Marco Rubio Cruz or Fiorina as you pointed out.
In Trumps case, for many of the good things he did as president, age is a problem, character counts and I personally believe he is not honest, i.e. corrupt. I agree his time is come and gone.
I want to get back to demanding character in our candidates. On both sides.

 

[Tropical Wilds]

Looking at history and all it's atrocities, people always wonder why the Christian masses simply "went along" (although there are numerous examples of the few who sacrificed themselves)? But most of these events took place in Gov'ts where the people didn't have much of a say such as Stalin, Pol Pot, Hitler, Mao...
But in America, we constantly have Christians who will vote for politicians who will make every effort to continue infanticide in our country because they value other issues as more important to them.
Not looking to argue...just trying to understand what the mindset is from those who feel this way? How do you justify this? Am I the one being too legalistic?
Thanks

I have yet to see the politician who advocates for infanticide, though if one were to come along I certainly wouldn’t vote for them. I can’t imagine anybody would, tbh.

 

[chevyontheriver]

I want to get back to demanding character in our candidates. On both sides.

What a concept!

 

[chevyontheriver]

I have yet to see the politician who advocates for infanticide, though if one were to come along I certainly wouldn’t vote for them. I can’t imagine anybody would, tbh.

Peter Singer, professor (endowed full professor no less) of Bioethics at Princeton University, though not a politician, has advocated for that. Kind of like the old Roman practice of the father of the household having veto power on which babies came into the household and which went to the dump.

So far we don't have politicians advocating for just that.