So...Biden Also Took Private Documents

[essentialsaltes]

Trump has known documents in a locked room for months with a specific lock the DOJ told him he must use.

Only after he was told to lock it up. Until then, they were in storage rooms that were occasionally open during events.

Boxes of documents were stored between beach chairs and umbrellas in storage rooms near the resort's central patios and outdoor spaces used to host events. Guests were only sixty feet away from the documents at times, according to a sweeping visual investigation by The New York Times, which shed light on the nature of the storage of government documents that included some marked "classified."

According to the Times, Trump hosted at least 50 political events in the first 19 months after leaving office. Many of the events were held either in the central outdoor space near the estate's pool or in the White and Gold Ballroom.

Less than 60 feet away from the White and Gold Ballroom, where event attendees spilled out onto an awning, multiple storage rooms were used to stash the documents. The storage rooms — lining the pool where guests swam, and around the corner from the ballroom — feature arched doors that per The Times were frequently kept half-open, and were open during at least four political events.

 

[Always in His Presence]

The second trove of documents were found in his garage.

 

[Always in His Presence]

Only after he was told to lock it up. Until then, they were in storage rooms that were occasionally open during events.

Boxes of documents were stored between beach chairs and umbrellas in storage rooms near the resort's central patios and outdoor spaces used to host events. Guests were only sixty feet away from the documents at times, according to a sweeping visual investigation by The New York Times, which shed light on the nature of the storage of government documents that included some marked "classified."

According to the Times, Trump hosted at least 50 political events in the first 19 months after leaving office. Many of the events were held either in the central outdoor space near the estate's pool or in the White and Gold Ballroom.

Less than 60 feet away from the White and Gold Ballroom, where event attendees spilled out onto an awning, multiple storage rooms were used to stash the documents. The storage rooms — lining the pool where guests swam, and around the corner from the ballroom — feature arched doors that per The Times were frequently kept half-open, and were open during at least four political events.

Yes, he followed their instructions. Thanks for pointing that out.

Definably more secure than in a garage next to a car.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Definably more secure than in a garage next to a car.

I thought you said "a building that is closed to the public and has secret service agents on sight." was the height of security?

 

[Always in His Presence]

I thought you said "a building that is closed to the public and has secret service agents on sight." was the height of security?

Nope never said it was the height of security.

I said it is more secure than in a closet in building that is open to the public.

Please at least be intellectually honest in quoting me

Thank you.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

Justice should be equal to all. Maybe you’re not but your post sounds biased.

How so? All we know about Biden's documents is that they were found while he was moving offices and returned immediately. What we know about Trump's documents is that he was asked to return them multiple times and didn't, and continues to this day to maintain that he shouldn't have to give them back. They're completely different scenarios.

As an analogy: Let's say you and I are roommates - we share a house with some common areas. After a few years, we go our separate ways and move out. As soon as you start unpacking, you realize that you're missing your laptop, so you ask me if I have it. I say no, but our mutual friend Steve tells you that he saw it in my stuff while he was helping me move. You relay that to me, but I maintain that I don't have it, so you go to the police and ask them to help you recover your property. Lo and behold, the laptop is sitting in a laptop bag next to my desk. I say "Oh, THAT laptop. No, that's my laptop - remember, you gave it to me." You did not give it to me. The police let you take it home, but I continue to gripe for months afterwards that you had the police raid my house to take back the laptop that you gave me. This happens a few more times with some other missing items.

Now, you don't unpack all of your stuff because your new place is a bit smaller, so a few boxes wind up in storage. A few years later, you're going through those boxes and find my video game system and a bunch of games. You immediately call me and let me know you found some of my stuff and drive it over to my house. You had no idea I was missing it, of course, because I never asked you if you'd seen it. And you had no idea you had it because you never opened the box it was in. But as soon as you did find it, you let me know and returned it.

Which of us is more in the wrong here?

 

[BPPLEE]

Yes, he followed their instructions. Thanks for pointing that out.

Definably more secure than in a garage next to a car.

They’re really having a hard time with reality over this issue

 

[BPPLEE]

How so? All we know about Biden's documents is that they were found while he was moving offices and returned immediately. What we know about Trump's documents is that he was asked to return them multiple times and didn't, and continues to this day to maintain that he shouldn't have to give them back. They're completely different scenarios.

As an analogy: Let's say you and I are roommates - we share a house with some common areas. After a few years, we go our separate ways and move out. As soon as you start unpacking, you realize that you're missing your laptop, so you ask me if I have it. I say no, but our mutual friend Steve tells you that he saw it in my stuff while he was helping me move. You relay that to me, but I maintain that I don't have it, so you go to the police and ask them to help you recover your property. Lo and behold, the laptop is sitting in a laptop bag next to my desk. I say "Oh, THAT laptop. No, that's my laptop - remember, you gave it to me." You did not give it to me. The police let you take it home, but I continue to gripe for months afterwards that you had the police raid my house to take back the laptop that you gave me. This happens a few more times with some other missing items.

Now, you don't unpack all of your stuff because your new place is a bit smaller, so a few boxes wind up in storage. A few years later, you're going through those boxes and find my video game system and a bunch of games. You immediately call me and let me know you found some of my stuff and drive it over to my house. You had no idea I was missing it, of course, because I never asked you if you'd seen it. And you had no idea you had it because you never opened the box it was in. But as soon as you did find it, you let me know and returned it.

Which of us is more in the wrong here?

I don’t think enough is known about Biden’s situation for you to come to such conclusions. As this is investigated more will come out and you may prove to be right. But there’s not enough information for you to be declaring that he’s innocent

 

[essentialsaltes]

But there’s not enough information for you to be declaring that he’s innocent

That's why I'm perfectly happy that a Trump-appointee at DOJ is looking into the matter.

ETA: and now a special counsel, who was also a Trump appointee.

 

[DaisyDay]

I gave the example, which you chopped off and stuck into the next section. There were multiple FBI agents that allegedly went to the press to state they were investigating Hillary Clinton, in violation of FBI rules. It was this reason, allegedly, that Comey broke DoJ rules to say that Hillary was under investigation about a month before the election.

It was worse than that. In July of 2016, Comey announced that Clinton had been under investigation for the emails and, although no charges would be filed he excoriated her for her careless handling of them. At the same time, the DNC hacked emails - by Russia - were leaked and many people, knowingly or not, conflated the hacked emails with her emails.

The topper was only two weeks before the election Comey announced that Clinton was again under investigation for emails found on Anthony Weiner's laptop. Announcing someone is being investigated, particularly a candidate, is against protocol. This reinvestigation announcement so close to the election was when her numbers truly tanked.

Finally a mere two days before the election, Comey tepidly announced that the bureau's conclusions from July would stand. Wikileaks released another batch of the hacked emails the same day (co-inky-dinky? ) Her campaign did not recover.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

I don’t think enough is known about Biden’s situation for you to come to such conclusions. As this is investigated more will come out and you may prove to be right. But there’s not enough information for you to be declaring that he’s innocent

Where did I declare that he was innocent or draw any final conclusions?

ETA: When I say that the scenarios are different, that doesn't mean that one is right and the other is wrong. It just means that they're different. Trump is in trouble because he refused to return classified documents despite multiple requests to do so and multiple attempts by the government to retrieve them. As far as we know, Biden has not done this - NARA did not notify him that any documents were missing, and he does not appear to have been aware that he had these files until they were found, at which point, their return was arranged. Should new information come to light, that understanding may change, and the fact that he had the files in the first place is still an issue (though a lesser one), but based on the available information, the two situations aren't really comparable outside of the superficial similarities.

 

[essentialsaltes]

Attorney General Merrick Garland has appointed a special counsel to take over the investigation into President Joe Biden's potential mishandling of classified documents.

The special counsel is Robert Hur.

From 2007 until 2014, Mr. Hur served as an assistant US attorney for the district of Maryland, where he prosecuted matters ranging from violent crime to financial fraud," Garland said.

"In 2017, Mr. Hur rejoined the department as the principal associate deputy attorney general. In 2018, he was nominated [by Trump] and confirmed to serve as a US attorney for the district of Maryland. As US attorney, he supervised some of the department's more important national security, public corruption and other high-profile matters," Garland added.

 

[BPPLEE]

Where did I declare that he was innocent or draw any final conclusions?

ETA: When I say that the scenarios are different, that doesn't mean that one is right and the other is wrong. It just means that they're different. Trump is in trouble because he refused to return classified documents despite multiple requests to do so and multiple attempts by the government to retrieve them. As far as we know, Biden has not done this - NARA did not notify him that any documents were missing, and he does not appear to have been aware that he had these files until they were found, at which point, their return was arranged. Should new information come to light, that understanding may change, and the fact that he had the files in the first place is still an issue (though a lesser one), but based on the available information, the two situations aren't really comparable outside of the superficial similarities.

If someone robs a bank and another person robs a bank and shoots a cop there are still similarities they both robbed a bank. More documents have been discovered. In what situation is the Vice President allowed to take classified documents home with him?

 

[rambot]

Watch all the Democrat and Biden supporters complain about a witch hunt against Biden. Watch us decry and down play "It was only empty classified folders found....there was nothing inside them". Watch how we gather the wagons around Biden and insist the investigation is a witchhunt.

Watch it.

Keep watching it. Watch it all unfold. Keep watching though. You'll have to watch for a long time...cause it won't happen. Because MOST Biden supporters are fine with an investigation; probably because we believe that, while he is not a perfect person, he is not a deeply flawed narcissist who needs to step away from politics.

And yet we keep getting told we are the ones who are ignoring reality.

 

[Aldebaran]

Interesting seeing the hivemind at work.

Or multiple people recognizing the truth.

 

[SimplyMe]

Watch all the Democrat and Biden supporters complain about a witch hunt against Biden. Watch us decry and down play "It was only empty classified folders found....there was nothing inside them". Watch how we gather the wagons around Biden and insist the investigation is a witchhunt.

Watch it.

Keep watching it. Watch it all unfold. Keep watching though. You'll have to watch for a long time...cause it won't happen. Because MOST Biden supporters are fine with an investigation; probably because we believe that, while he is not a perfect person, he is not a deeply flawed narcissist who needs to step away from politics.

And yet we keep getting told we are the ones who are ignoring reality.

Okay, I'll watch for it. At this point, I haven't seen it. I know I (not a Democrat) find the appointment of a Special Prosecutor a great idea and hope that the President will fully cooperate.

 

[Aldebaran]

Okay, I'll watch for it. At this point, I haven't seen it. I know I (not a Democrat) find the appointment of a Special Prosecutor a great idea and hope that the President will fully cooperate.

The real question is whether or not the Special Prosecutor will "cooperate" by not asking for very much, basically giving biden the kid-glove treatment and pretending to hold biden accountable, then declaring that "biden did nothing wrong". The MSM has been doing this all along. Why expect better from anyone else in Washington DC?

 

[SimplyMe]

The real question is whether or not the Special Prosecutor will "cooperate" by not asking for very much, basically giving biden the kid-glove treatment and pretending to hold biden accountable, then declaring that "biden did nothing wrong". The MSM has been doing this all along. Why expect better from anyone else in Washington DC?

I would expect any Special Prosecutor to do their duty. In this case, a Trump appointee to the Justice Department, Robert Hur, who left when Trump left office to join a private law firm was appointed, so I would expect he'll investigate fully.

On the other side, even if the prosecutor investigates fully but determines no prosecution (or minor prosecution) is required by law, how many Republicans will claim that Robert Hur, despite his ties to Trump and his current job outside of government, is nothing more than a "deep state plant" who refused to hold Biden accountable?

 

[essentialsaltes]

The real question is whether or not the Special Prosecutor will "cooperate" by not asking for very much, basically giving biden the kid-glove treatment

Like that slacker Bob Mueller. It was infuriating how smugly Trump fans welcomed the Mueller investigation, comfortable in the knowledge it was all empty political theater.

 

[RocksInMyHead]

In what situation is the Vice President allowed to take classified documents home with him?

Once the administration is done, never. However, I'm also cognizant of the fact that people make mistakes. Personally, the idea that Trump took classified documents with him didn't bother me when it first came out - I assumed it was a mistake by a staffer. Once he started pushing back on the idea and obstructing the process of getting them back where they belonged, then I had a problem. Until I see evidence otherwise, I assume the same of Biden - that the documents were accidentally swept up in the move-out process and packed in the wrong boxes. The fact that his team has, so far, cooperated and returned everything that they found immediately and without argument supports this. It still warrants an investigation, of course, and one has been launched. I fully support that process. I would like to know who has had access to the documents, and I'm curious as to how this mistake keeps happening. But I see no reason to go after Biden himself - at least not yet.