Modern day systemic racism, does it exist?

[rturner76]

Disparities are the norm...equal outcomes are the oddity.

You're right, they are the norm.....always have been.

 

[RDKirk]

If it's across multiple categories, you can start to see a pattern.

25 simple charts to show friends and family who aren't convinced racism is still a problem in America

Research has extensively documented the differences between the Black and white experience in the US, from wealth and education to incarceration.

www.businessinsider.com

One of those charts, despairing over the number of blacks in Congress, was just dumb.

Another large number are the direct result of the dysfunction of the black population. For instance, the huge proportion of single mothers, not racism, directly causes most of those issues, such as the proportion of households being in poverty.

Some are based on demographics such as location distribution. If a greater percentage of black people live in urban areas, then that's going to contribute to a smaller percentage being homeowners.

 

[rturner76]

Your third chart shows asians at a higher rate than whites.

Are they holding back both of us in your mind? Is this some weird conspiracy of white people to help out asians and keep down black people?

Because if the system was designed to favor white people, that chart makes no sense.

That's not multiple categories, that's one. It doesn't show a pattern.

 

[rturner76]

One of those charts, despairing over the number of blacks in Congress, was just dumb.

Another large number are the direct result of the dysfunction of the black population. For instance, the huge proportion of single mothers, not racism, directly causes most of those issues, such as the proportion of households being in poverty.

Some are based on demographics such as location distribution. If a greater percentage of black people live in urban areas, then that's going to contribute to a smaller percentage being homeowners

I don't believe that black people are inherently dysfunctional but I do agree that single parenthood has caused many problems. I don't think that is the sole problem though. I think there is a trickledown from the old days that still lingers. These are not insurmountable difficulties like getting a beating for using the wrong water fountain. It is a challenge that those with diligence can overcome.

 

[RDKirk]

I don't believe that black people are inherently dysfunctional but I do agree that single parenthood has caused many problems. I don't think that is the sole problem though. I think there is a trickledown from the old days that still lingers. These are not insurmountable difficulties like getting a beating for using the wrong water fountain. It is a challenge that those with diligence can overcome.

Black people are not "inherently" dysfunctional, but ADOS culture does have inherent dysfunctions.

Yes, there are lingering effects of past hardcore racism. But as I've said, racism is not at such a level that a black person is unable to flourish in the US today. If that were the case, it would be just as oppressive to Africans who immigrate to the US. Instead, Africans come to the US and wonder why ADOS blacks aren't doing better in what to them is such a benign environment.

 

[Ana the Ist]

If it's across multiple categories, you can start to see a pattern.

25 simple charts to show friends and family who aren't convinced racism is still a problem in America

Research has extensively documented the differences between the Black and white experience in the US, from wealth and education to incarceration.

www.businessinsider.com

Yeah...but that's normal. Everyone's brain looks for patterns. They evolved that way. It's the foundation of all bias.

Equal outcomes are so unusual that we can typically easily find their direct causes. If 1000 black people and 1000 people get speeding tickets on the jersey turnpike all pay 200$ fines, that's an equal outcome....but it wouldn't prove that no racism was involved with the issuing of tickets and warnings or in who got pulled over.

2nd born children get incarcerated more often than 1st born children. It's a huge disparity....like 40%. There's a couple of theories why, but they can't possibly prove them....and those theories are far more developed than "systemic racism". You can't even tell me how it happens without just assuming everyone is racist. It's a garbage explanation.

I mean I don't even understand why it appeals to you. Everyone feels helpless at times but to present oneself as completely unable to affect one's own betterment because of being completely helpless against some mysterious unexplainable force you can't really describe....


It looks disingenuous.

 

[rjs330]

Why do you need our friend to prove anything to you?
Are you happy with the way justice is meted out in our land?
Is having the largest prison population in the world the “land of the free” should be about?
“But they can’t prove it’s racist!”

Keep telling yourself that.

No I'm not happy, there's a lack of justice right now with with letting people out of jail to commit more crime.

No they cant prove it's racist at all.

I am for prison reform though. I've done some reading on Norway's system and it seems to be really fixing the recidivism rate. Actually some of the things they've been doing are things I've advocated for on prison discussions.

I don't really like the current system. It's doing little or nothing to prevent recidivism.

 

[Pommer]

Disparities are the norm...equal outcomes are the oddity.

“That’s the way it is” was the very same thing that was said during Jim Crow.

 

[Ana the Ist]

You're right, they are the norm.....always have been.

They are....you should be glad for that. This world depends upon millions of jobs few people really want to do. They do them for their betterment.

If you removed this....how many people would quit tomorrow? Why spends hours doing some job nobody wants to do if it makes absolutely no difference in what your outcomes are?

Do some people have more than you? Sure. Did some of them find a way to cheat the system and probably don't deserve it? Of course. Is that most of them? No way. You'd never trust a doctor or repairman or any sort of skilled labor.

There's a well worn path of likely success that starts with 2 parent homes, a work ethic, education as a value, pursuing an opportunity for a career through the acquisition or development of a skill or knowledge base, and basic financial budgeting for the future.


Is that an exciting life? Probably not. Are you just doing something millions upon millions have done before you? Yup.


I'm not saying it's easy....I'm not saying chance and circumstances don't affect it. It's a lot of choices that have to be made and committed to. There's no guarantees.

If someone follows that path here though, they have a much better chance of improving their lives than someone who doesn't.

 

[rturner76]

Black people are not "inherently" dysfunctional, but ADOS culture does have inherent dysfunctions.

Yes, there are lingering effects of past hardcore racism. But as I've said, racism is not at such a level that a black person is unable to flourish in the US today. If that were the case, it would be just as oppressive to Africans who immigrate to the US. Instead, Africans come to the US and wonder why ADOS blacks aren't doing better in what to them is such a benign environment.

It could have something to do with the culture of being the descendants of slaves. People that come here now come by choice and they have specific goals in mind for when they land here. I believe as Africans of the diaspora, there have been more obstacles to success.

 

[rturner76]

You can't even tell me how it happens without just assuming everyone

Not everyone but enough to make a difference.

veryone feels helpless at times but to present oneself as completely unable to affect one's own betterment because of being completely helpless against some mysterious unexplainable force you can't really describe....

That I don't recall ever saying. I have said it's a hindrance or an obstacle but not an insurmountable one.

 

[rturner76]

I'm not saying it's easy....I'm not saying chance and circumstances don't affect it

Not at all?

 

[RDKirk]

It could have something to do with the culture of being the descendants of slaves. People that come here now come by choice and they have specific goals in mind for when they land here. I believe as Africans of the diaspora, there have been more obstacles to success.

Yeah, I had a thread a while back where I made long posts detailing how that happened.

What happened to us back then was not by our choice, and it continues to affect us today.

OTOH, the worst issues we face today actually only began in the 60s.

What we do, or fail to do, today is by choice.

 

[rturner76]

Yeah, I had a thread a while back where I made long posts detailing how that happened.

What happened to us back then was not by our choice, and it continues to affect us today.

OTOH, the worst issues we face today actually only began in the 60s.

What we do, or fail to do, today is by choice.

Yes, every individual has choices to make. It's a matter of who gets caught in the stumbling blocks and who overcomes them. Our civil rights laws have opened up untold possibilities but there is still a lingering stench from the crap that was delivered on the minority head.

 

[RDKirk]

Yes, every individual has choices to make. It's a matter of who gets caught in the stumbling blocks and who overcomes them. Our civil rights laws have opened up untold possibilities but there is still a lingering stench from the crap that was delivered on the minority head.

That's not going to be effectively remedied by government efforts to ensure "equal outcomes."

 

[rturner76]

That's not going to be effectively remedied by government efforts to ensure "equal outcomes."

It's down to the people wielding power to not submit to their own prejudice. But how can people be convinced to do that?

 

[RDKirk]

It's down to the people wielding power to not submit to their own prejudice. But how can people be convinced to do that?

Social training. It's happening.

 

[rturner76]

Social training. It's happening.

I'm not familiar with the term "Social Training." Google has a multitude of answers on "Social Skills Training" but I don't know if that is a different term..

 

[Ana the Ist]

“That’s the way it is” was the very same thing that was said during Jim Crow.

It's the same thing said in any era....I don't know why you're obsessed with Jim Crow.

Not at all?

Sorry for the double negative but I don't know what you're asking me here.

Did you understand my post?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Yes, every individual has choices to make. It's a matter of who gets caught in the stumbling blocks and who overcomes them.

Sure. The point is they can be overcome.

Our civil rights laws have opened up untold possibilities but there is still a lingering stench from the crap that was delivered on the minority head.

I don't understand what the "lingering stench" refers to.