The Christian of the Future Will Either Be a Mystic or Cease to Be.

[timothyu]

We must renew the way we think, and this will renew the way we act and behave.

Yes but we don't have Jesus now to physically set the example as He once did for the people, but we are surrounded daily by the evil ways of man driven by the power of self interest be it globally or in ourselves. This in itself should be enough for us to stop and realise the backwardness of our ways and flip a switch. It need not be from rational thinking but an inside feeling something is wrong with this picture, Evil is self defeating.

 

[Andrewn]

The change that takes place in our heart begins with the control center—the mind. Your heart must be informed by the mind, and the mind by the Spirit. Sometimes "spirit" and "mind" are interchangeable in scripture, and that is by no coincidence.

The relationship between heart, nous, and spirit in the Bible is rather complicated (and confusing):

1) You're right that sometimes spirit and nous are interchangeable in Scripture. In fact, I have an EO book that advocates for translating "nous" into "spirit."

2) Also, in many biblical passages, especially in the OT, it is clear that "heart" equals "mind." For the Hebrews, the heart does not refer to emotions.

3) Taking these two facts together, it seems that heart = nous = spirit. Or, as the EO say, "nous is the eye of the heart."

4) Notice that the following verse does not mention the spirit. It is represented by the heart:

Deuteronomy 6:5
And you shall love the LORD your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength.

In this verse, the soul represents emotions, and strength represents the body.

 

[Clare73]

Let the story of Jesus' atonement be an illustration of one's renunciation of doership, thus attaining freedom from all karma.

When Christ taught us renunciation, His words were echoing Krishna.

IMO, this thread has unsurprisingly turned into a representation of the tension between dogmatism and experience. The Bible say x vs. There is a perennial experience that seems to transcend the dogmatic claims of any particular faith. I don't think these two have to be in tension, but the dogmatist will always be limited by their dogma. And, as soon as dogmatism enters the discussion, it turns from dialogue to debate. I don't find any of that surprising.

Dogmatism can only assert truth claims; it cannot prove anything. Those who have experience, as ineffable as it is, can say, "You don't have to believe what I say. Seek as I have done, and find out for yourself." There is an empirical element to mysticism in so far as most anyone can take up a practice and experience it for themselves. There's no need for debate. Dogmatism can only assert and argue.

When trafficking in the non-Biblical realm of the spiritual, are we not to be cautious regarding the operation of the spirits there?

 

[Clare73]

The thing is that it predates the doctrine of sin

And the great deceiver, about whom is the doctrine of sin, predates karma.

 

[public hermit]

When trafficking in the non-Biblical realm of the spiritual, are we not to be cautious regarding the operation of the spirits there?

I'm not; I trust God.

 

[timothyu]

And the great deceiver, about whom is the doctrine of sin, predates karma.

Possibly but one history precludes the other so it becomes a matter of choice in which history to follow. But it should ultimately end with the Kingdom regardless. His will be done. We are but bots in the great computer, even if many are viruses.

 

[Clare73]

I'm not; I trust God.

Would that not be presumption, since we are told how to protect ourselves. . .test the spirits (1 Jn 4:1)?

Presumption is ignoring God's warnings, thinking he will protect us in spite of our disobedience to them.

Do you encounter spirits there?

 

[public hermit]

Would that not be presumption, since we are told how to protect ourselves. . .test the spirits (1 Jn 4:1)?

Presumption is ignoring God's warnings, thinking he will protect us in spite of our disobedience to them.

Do you encounter spirits there?

I'm not going around the maypole with you, Clare. I've said enough.

 

[Saint Steven]

I'm not going around the maypole with you, Clare. I've said enough.

Maypole?
I think that's a bakery in Malta. - LOL

Maypole - Nothing says homemade like Maypole

Maypole continuously strives to be market and consumer leader in quality food and baked products, whilst developing our heritage through innovation.

www.maypole.com.mt

Maybe we should go around to the Maypole.

 

[Jesse Dornfeld]

If the experience confirmed the Bible, how was it contrary to the Bible?

Good question. I'm not sure, honestly. I'm not sure it was against the Bible, except the guy I talked to made inferences about being Jesus even though he never outright said it. I tried looking him up on public records and didn't find anything on him, which is really strange.

 

[Jonaitis]

When trafficking in the non-Biblical realm of the spiritual, are we not to be cautious regarding the operation of the spirits there?

What kind of spirits? And what kind of operation?

 

[Clare73]

What kind of spirits? And what kind of operation?

Interaction with the spiritual.

 

[Saint Steven]

@public hermit I was thinking this morning about the difference between Christian Mysticism and Charismatic/Pentecostalism in relationship to the divine presence.

Whereas the goal of Christian Mysticism is to find and dwell in the divine presence, in Charismatic/Pentecostalism it is a benefit, but not the goal. Correct me if I am wrong on the Mysticism part.

The goal in Charismatic/Pentecostalism is to operate in the power of spiritual gifts. So the focus is on helping others with physical healing, deliverance from demonic strongholds, edification through prophetic encouragement, and so on.

So, I can't really consider myself a part of Christian Mysticism solely on the basis that I enjoy the divine presence. Though I am free to practice. And I suppose at some point a person could claim both.

This begs a question, I suppose. Do some/many who practice Christian Mysticism experience prophetic events? Dreams, visions, insights, messages, encounters, and the like. I seem to remember seeing portions from the writing of Teresa of Avila that were a bit extreme.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Buddhism is often called an atheistic religion. This is an oxymoron. It seems to me that the Buddha adhered to what Christians may call "apophatic theology," and Hindus may call "nirguna brahman."

In popular religion in every Asian country, the gods support Buddhism and provide for the worldly needs of the people for health, wealth and spiritual protection. The native Japanese gods were seen as manifestations of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas to protect Japan even before Buddhism officially arrived. In Japan virtually all temples had a shrine, dedicated to a tutelary native god or Indian deity, to protect the sacred area.

So, even though Buddhism generally avoids ascribing attributes to God, oriental Buddhists believe in many incarnations of God. But western Buddhists may be atheistic.

I think you are right. Traditional popular Buddhism functions like popular Christianity. But contemporary trendy Buddhists are more atheistic about it. I think the core of Buddhism is indeed apophatic, so much so that nothing can be said about the true nature of reality (Zen), it must be experienced for one's self. And that brings us bac to the OP. One must have an experience to support any set of dogmas or beliefs or they will not endure.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Karma sounds like a corruption of the doctrine of sin, as we find many corruptions of Biblical doctrine in Satan's religions; e.g, re-incarnation, etc.

No. Unrelated but similar. You get what you sow.

 

[Jonaitis]

Interaction with the spiritual.

Please explain.

 

[Saint Steven]

The native Japanese gods were seen as manifestations of Buddhas and Bodhisattvas to protect Japan even before Buddhism officially arrived.

Reminded me of this one.

 

[timothyu]

One must have an experience to support any set of dogmas or beliefs or they will not endure.

Quite possibly but many church going people are there looking to have their everyday lives justified. Interest in God to them is better served by showing them God's will for a decent life rather than experiencing Him. But the Scripture is clear in saying we are to continually seek God, even when we think we have found Him, so it remains a series of stages in life and some settle down early.

 

[Clare73]

Please explain.

You want me to explain what is reported as unexplainable?

 

[Jonaitis]

You want me to explain what is reported as unexplainable?

You yourself stated that there should be caution, but you haven't explained what it is that we should be cautious about.