Modern day systemic racism, does it exist?

[Ana the Ist]

Why do you need to see me criticize police?

I'm sorry, I thought your claim was that the police were systemically racist.

I can go back and take a look again....

 

[RDKirk]

Don’t forget that in America income is a big indicator for health outcomes.

It need not be. Low income is not the controlling factor of obesity. Knowlege, behavior, and culture are the primary factors of obesity. Up until the 1980s, black women were generally slender even though more blacks in those times were in poverty. The change today is a matter of knowledge, behavior, and culture.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Black students are less likely than white students to have access to college-ready courses.

Race in Education - Center on Education and Training for Employment

Race in Education Dr. Kenyona Walker is the Center on Education and Training for Employment’s leading scholar in the area of race and education. She provided a Professional Development learning experience for Associates at the Center on Education and Training for Employment, at the Ohio...

cete.osu.edu

5 examples of racism in the U.S. criminal justice system​

5 examples of racism in the U.S. criminal justice system | Sivin, Miller & Roche LLP

It seems like a new and disturbing instance of police misconduct or unfair prosecution is in the headlines every ... blog

www.sivinandmiller.com

DECADES OF STRUCTURAL RACISM HAVE CREATED TREMENDOUS RACIAL DISPARITIES IN HOUSING, AND THAT LEGACY CONTINUES TO SHAPE THE PRESENT LANDSCAPE. RACIAL DISPARITIES IN HOUSING MANIFEST IN SEVERAL WAYS:​

Racial Inequities in Housing - Opportunity Starts at Home

Decades of structural racism have created tremendous racial disparities in housing, and that legacy continues to shape the present landscape. Racial disparities in housing manifest in several ways: Housing Affordability […]

www.opportunityhome.org

These articles are ridiculous. First of all school funds primarily come from local taxes so naturally lower income areas will have lower funds for schools and schools are not segregated so all residents in each district will have the same opportunities available to them regardless of what race, nationality, religion, sexual preference, etc, etc. The article ignores the fact that there are numerous predominantly white schools all across America that have less funding than predominantly black schools particularly in rural areas with small towns. School funding has absolutely nothing to do with race it has everything to do with local taxes. Only 7% of school funding comes from the federal government the other 93% comes from state and local city taxes.

The “redlining” referred to in the housing article was a result of banks charging higher interest rates for houses in predominantly low income areas. The article also fails to mention that 85% of the redlined areas were made up of white residents.

“In 1935, the Federal Home Loan Bank Board (FHLBB) asked the Home Owners' Loan Corporation (HOLC) to look at 239 cities and create "residential security maps" to indicate the level of security for real-estate investments in each surveyed city. On the maps, the newest areas—those considered desirable for lending purposes—were outlined in green and known as "Type A". These were typically affluent suburbs on the outskirts of cities. "Type B" neighborhoods, outlined in blue, were considered "Still Desirable", whereas older "Type C" were labeled "Declining" and outlined in yellow. "Type D" neighborhoods were outlined in red and were considered the most risky for mortgage support. While about 85% of the residents of such neighborhoods were white, they included most of the African-American urban households.”

Redlining - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

The above is quoted from under the “History” tab.

Unfortunately that article fails to mention the fact that redlining actually affected more whites than minorities but then again that wasn’t the point of the article. The goal of the article was to promote the existence systematic racism not give actual facts.

 

[gaara4158]

Be my guest

The Lancet: More than half of police killings in USA are unreported and Black Americans are most likely to experience fatal police violence

More than 55% of deaths from police violence in the USA from 1980-2018 were misclassified or unreported in official vital statistics reports according to a new study in The Lancet.

www.healthdata.org

It’s only the central thesis of the entire BLM movement. Where’ve you been?

 

[gaara4158]

Excuse after excuse after excuse. It’s always somebody else’s fault isn’t it? I rob people, I use and sell drugs, I break into cars & houses, I’m violent and kill people because my people were oppressed 50 years ago yet ironically it’s my own people who are typically the victims of my crimes. This is not the mentality of blacks all over America this is the primary mentality of blacks living in the hood which is precisely where the high levels of crime are.There are numerous blacks living outside of the hood who don’t have this mentality. It has nothing to do with oppression it has to do with making excuses for unacceptable behavior. Most of the people committing these crimes nowadays have no idea what oppression is because the oppression ended before they were even born. The hood mentality is perpetrated by both what is glorified and mocked in the hood. Getting a job is for suckers, hustling, pumping, selling dope, gang banging, and severe consequences for disrespect are glorified. Anyone who has ever actually lived in the hood or listens to rap music knows that, it’s common knowledge. But outside of the hood it’s a completely different ballgame. Blacks outside the hood typically don’t have that mentality and typically hold to values that are predominant within their local community. So don’t try to blame oppression for the crime rates in the hood because oppression has nothing to do with it. The majority of blacks in the hood are oppressing each other and themselves.

Look, it’s this kind of anti-intellectualism that really disappoints me about public discourse these days. People find an acceptable scapegoat (in your case, it’s “the criminal mentality”) and immediately stop asking questions. Ah, the hood is full of criminals? That’s a shame, they should simply stop doing crimes! I will not spend any time considering what types of things influence the people, culture, and economic conditions most associated with the crimes I’m complaining about. I found the culprit, it’s *them*. There are entire fields of study you reject outright by your pedestrian line of thinking. I hope you’re able to grow in the future.

 

[gaara4158]

You didn't answer the question.



You didn't answer the question. Are you avoiding?



Who is responsible for the lack of stability in those neighborhoods?



If one neighborhood has a thousand speeders and the other has a hundred then no, there is no problem with more enforcement in the one that has the most.



And I've already proven to you that police do reduce crime. Why did you ignore that?



Unfortunately you did no prove you case at all. Your premise has no evidence but isolated incidents.

Cops are not known to abuse their power. It's been proven in several studies. Why do you feel the need to perpetuate lies and false stereotypes about cops but then ignore that there are crime ridden communities and excuse them?

If you read carefully, you will see that your question is irrelevant. If you accept the premise that a percentage of police encounters can and will become abusive - even if that percentage is tiny - and you subsequently accept the premise that Black people are involved in more police encounters per capita than white people, then you *must* accept the conclusion that Black people are abused more by police on average than white people. You’re just not bothered by it.

 

[Ken-1122]

Black students are less likely than white students to have access to college-ready courses.

Race in Education - Center on Education and Training for Employment

Race in Education Dr. Kenyona Walker is the Center on Education and Training for Employment’s leading scholar in the area of race and education. She provided a Professional Development learning experience for Associates at the Center on Education and Training for Employment, at the Ohio...

cete.osu.edu

As far as the educational system, it is well known if you live in a economically oppressed neighborhood, your school is not going to be up to the same standard as a school in an economically affluent neighborhood, and a kid attending the affluent school is going to have greater access to college-ready courses compared to the kid attending the school in the economically oppressed neighborhood, and due to economics, black kids are more likely to live in an economically oppressed neighborhood. But this sounds like more of an economic problem rather than a systemic racist problem.

5 examples of racism in the U.S. criminal justice system​

5 examples of racism in the U.S. criminal justice system | Sivin, Miller & Roche LLP

It seems like a new and disturbing instance of police misconduct or unfair prosecution is in the headlines every ... blog

www.sivinandmiller.com

As far as the justice system, if you are poor, and living in an economically oppressed violent neighborhood, the police will treat you differently than they will treat those living in an economically affluent neighborhood, because they are more likely to fear for their safety in the violent neighborhood as opposed to the safer neighborhood. Black people are more likely to live in high crime areas. Again; an economic problem as opposed to a systemic racist problem.

DECADES OF STRUCTURAL RACISM HAVE CREATED TREMENDOUS RACIAL DISPARITIES IN HOUSING, AND THAT LEGACY CONTINUES TO SHAPE THE PRESENT LANDSCAPE. RACIAL DISPARITIES IN HOUSING MANIFEST IN SEVERAL WAYS:​

Racial Inequities in Housing - Opportunity Starts at Home

Decades of structural racism have created tremendous racial disparities in housing, and that legacy continues to shape the present landscape. Racial disparities in housing manifest in several ways: Housing Affordability […]

www.opportunityhome.org

As far as inequality in housing, if you are living with a single parent (usually a mother), you are more likely to be poor, than someone living in a 2 parent household. Women generally make less money than men, so a woman head of household is far less likely to make as much money as a household where both parents work. The more money the household makes, the better home they can afford. Black households are far more likely to have a single woman as head of household than other races; but this is more of a cultural problem than a systemic racist problem

 

[RDKirk]

As far as the educational system, it is well known if you live in a economically oppressed neighborhood, your school is not going to be up to the same standard as a school in an economically affluent neighborhood, and a kid attending the affluent school is going to have greater access to college-ready courses compared to the kid attending the school in the economically oppressed neighborhood, and due to economics, black kids are more likely to live in an economically oppressed neighborhood. But this sounds like more of an economic problem rather than a systemic racist problem.

As far as the justice system, if you are poor, and living in an economically oppressed violent neighborhood, the police will treat you differently than they will treat those living in an economically affluent neighborhood, because they are more likely to fear for their safety in the violent neighborhood as opposed to the safer neighborhood. Black people are more likely to live in high crime areas. Again; an economic problem as opposed to a systemic racist problem.

As far as inequality in housing, if you are living with a single parent (usually a mother), you are more likely to be poor, than someone living in a 2 parent household. Women generally make less money than men, so a woman head of household is far less likely to make as much money as a household where both parents work. The more money the household makes, the better home they can afford. Black households are far more likely to have a single woman as head of household than other races; but this is more of a cultural problem than a systemic racist problem

Today, they are all primarily culture problems. Plenty of black people born into those situations escape them by adopting more functional cultural practices. Those, however, are outliers. Most people never step away from whatever culture they learned as children, even if its a dysfunctional culture.

But it's still a cultural problem, and the real solution is to devise a way to make the outlier behavior more common.

 

[rjs330]

If you read carefully, you will see that your question is irrelevant. If you accept the premise that a percentage of police encounters can and will become abusive - even if that percentage is tiny - and you subsequently accept the premise that Black people are involved in more police encounters per capita than white people, then you *must* accept the conclusion that Black people are abused more by police on average than white people. You’re just not bothered by it.

You still haven't answered the questions.

Your premise lacks context. Premises without context are nothing more than biased assumptions.

Should we be concerned deeply over police contacting criminals in crime ridden areas?

Why should we be overly concerned with a .04% excessive force rate. I think that's quite good considering what cops have to deal with.

 

[Larniavc]

Knowlege, behavior, and culture are the primary factors of obesity.

That’s interesting. Do you have evidence to support that?

 

[gaara4158]

You still haven't answered the questions.

Your premise lacks context. Premises without context are nothing more than biased assumptions.

Should we be concerned deeply over police contacting criminals in crime ridden areas?

Why should we be overly concerned with a .04% excessive force rate. I think that's quite good considering what cops have to deal with.

We should be concerned deeply about the systems that make society run making life especially unfair for people of color.

 

[gaara4158]

Today, they are all primarily culture problems. Plenty of black people born into those situations escape them by adopting more functional cultural practices. Those, however, are outliers. Most people never step away from whatever culture they learned as children, even if its a dysfunctional culture.

But it's still a cultural problem, and the real solution is to devise a way to make the outlier behavior more common.

Culture plays a role, but if we really hope to change the average outcomes for those born into it, we have to find a way to change that culture, not just encourage people to leave it.

 

[Nithavela]

Most people work for their home. You haven't given me true examples of modern systemic racism. You complain because blacks have to work for their homes but thats the way its done by mostly everyone. Whites work for their homes too. So where is the racism?

"Working for your home" doesn't work.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Look, it’s this kind of anti-intellectualism that really disappoints me about public discourse these days. People find an acceptable scapegoat (in your case, it’s “the criminal mentality”) and immediately stop asking questions. Ah, the hood is full of criminals? That’s a shame, they should simply stop doing crimes! I will not spend any time considering what types of things influence the people, culture, and economic conditions most associated with the crimes I’m complaining about. I found the culprit, it’s *them*. There are entire fields of study you reject outright by your pedestrian line of thinking. I hope you’re able to grow in the future.

Have you ever actually lived in the hood?

 

[BNR32FAN]

As far as the educational system, it is well known if you live in a economically oppressed neighborhood, your school is not going to be up to the same standard as a school in an economically affluent neighborhood, and a kid attending the affluent school is going to have greater access to college-ready courses compared to the kid attending the school in the economically oppressed neighborhood, and due to economics, black kids are more likely to live in an economically oppressed neighborhood. But this sounds like more of an economic problem rather than a systemic racist problem.

As far as the justice system, if you are poor, and living in an economically oppressed violent neighborhood, the police will treat you differently than they will treat those living in an economically affluent neighborhood, because they are more likely to fear for their safety in the violent neighborhood as opposed to the safer neighborhood. Black people are more likely to live in high crime areas. Again; an economic problem as opposed to a systemic racist problem.

As far as inequality in housing, if you are living with a single parent (usually a mother), you are more likely to be poor, than someone living in a 2 parent household. Women generally make less money than men, so a woman head of household is far less likely to make as much money as a household where both parents work. The more money the household makes, the better home they can afford. Black households are far more likely to have a single woman as head of household than other races; but this is more of a cultural problem than a systemic racist problem

According to Wikipedia 85% of the redlined residents were white. The other 15% did make up for a large majority of minorities but this only proves that redlining wasn’t a result of racism it was another result of low income.

 

[gaara4158]

Have you ever actually lived in the hood?

Of course not. I have white privilege thanks to my wealthy white father, despite spending considerable time there visiting my mother’s side of the family. Why do you ask?

 

[Ana the Ist]

As far as the educational system, it is well known if you live in a economically oppressed neighborhood, your school is not going to be up to the same standard as a school in an economically affluent neighborhood, and a kid attending the affluent school is going to have greater access to college-ready courses compared to the kid attending the school in the economically oppressed neighborhood, and due to economics, black kids are more likely to live in an economically oppressed neighborhood. But this sounds like more of an economic problem rather than a systemic racist problem.

As far as the justice system, if you are poor, and living in an economically oppressed violent neighborhood, the police will treat you differently than they will treat those living in an economically affluent neighborhood, because they are more likely to fear for their safety in the violent neighborhood as opposed to the safer neighborhood. Black people are more likely to live in high crime areas. Again; an economic problem as opposed to a systemic racist problem.

As far as inequality in housing, if you are living with a single parent (usually a mother), you are more likely to be poor, than someone living in a 2 parent household. Women generally make less money than men, so a woman head of household is far less likely to make as much money as a household where both parents work. The more money the household makes, the better home they can afford. Black households are far more likely to have a single woman as head of household than other races; but this is more of a cultural problem than a systemic racist problem

Hey @Ken-1122, you may have missed this but I asked Akita about one of the first bits of "evidence" he posted. It was this link about disparities in hospitals.

Heart Disease and Stroke in Black Women

Cardiovascular disease is the No. 1 killer for all women.

www.heart.org

If you read the article, it sounds as if a close connection between racism and Healthcare outcomes was found in the research. I found that surprising, because I've never seen anyone prove such a thing conclusively. I also found it suspicious that it linked to two celebrity experiences...but not the research. That's a big red flag.

Here's the research.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://scholar.google.com/scholar_url%3Furl%3Dhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2594273/pdf/jnma00325-0024.pdf%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DX%26ei%3DY66hY96sOY6yyATvqZyoBQ%26scisig%3DAAGBfm2JFFNOm83wTwlwLRPxkOjGzFzzcQ%26oi%3Dscholarr&ved=2ahUKEwiDtOb5nIj8AhVFMTQIHUxVAK8QgAN6BAhtEAE&usg=AOvVaw1kZi5U0grcfz4HzqKme3-u

Right at the beginning of the paper you'll notice a couple of statements....

"Bias, stereotyping, prejudice, and clinical
uncertainty on the part of health care providers may contribute to racial and ethnic disparities
in health care. While indirect evidence from
several lines of research support this statement,
a greater understanding of the prevalence and
influence of the processes is needed and
should be sought through research.
* Finally, racial and ethnic minority patients
are more likely than white patients to refuse
treatment, but differences in refusal rates are
generally small. Minority patient refusal does
note fully explain health care disparities."

According to the research he cited....bias and racial stereotyping "may" contribute to healthcare outcomes. The research isn't saying that it proved a connection...it's saying that it may contribute....as in, it might be one of many things to contribute to different outcomes.

What's another example of something that contributes to different outcomes? How about the fact that minorities refuse treatment more often. No...they don't refuse treatment often enough to account for all differences in outcomes. They definitely contribute to differences in outcomes though.

This is a government funded study....and even then...it was unable to prove any direct connection between biases and healthcare outcomes. Then articles like the one cited completely distort and exaggerate the findings.

If this is the quality of evidence that someone is posting....I generally don't waste time with every bit of evidence they post. I simply point out that the first thing they posted admits it's not evidence....and ask if the rest of the evidence is that bad. If the poster insists it isn't...I take a look at the second piece of evidence cited. If it's just as bad....then I'm done wasting time with that poster.

You're giving people way too much credit in their ability to identify evidence.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Have you ever actually lived in the hood?

You knew the answer to this before you even asked it. Whenever someone talks about the "over policing" of black communities as if it's the cause of all the crime in those communities instead of the result of all the crime....you're talking to someone who has never known a black person outside of a work or classroom setting.

You shouldn't let them talk down to you about anti-intellectualism. Intellectualism died on the left years ago.

 

[Ana the Ist]

The root cause is the choice between wanting to police crime and over having a just society.

A just society requires enforcement of the law.

I can't imagine how you would think it would work otherwise. Do people only commit crime out of need in your fantasy world?

 

[RDKirk]

That’s interesting. Do you have evidence to support that?

Every single study that's ever been done on obesity. Every study concludes, "Eat different things, do different things, live in a different way." That's culture.

What do you think causes it? Oxygen?