Fatal Police shootings are increasing....

[rambot]

but for some reason, more of these are going unreported.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2022/fatal-police-shootings-unreported/


My thoughts are simply something I'm repeating from before:
America has a policing problem. Your bar to be come a policeman is FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR too low.

 

[Occams Barber]

but for some reason, more of these are going unreported.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2022/fatal-police-shootings-unreported/


My thoughts are simply something I'm repeating from before:
America has a policing problem. Your bar to be come a policeman is FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR too low.

According to Wikipedia the US has around 900,000 operatives in18,000 separate federal, state and county law enforcement agencies including small town police forces with few officers.

Law enforcement in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Given this plethora of agencies and agency sizes it's inevitable that standards of training, overall competence, record keeping etc. will vary enormously.

OB

 

[rambot]

According to Wikipedia the US has around 900,000 operatives in18,000 separate federal, state and county law enforcement agencies including small town police forces with few officers.

Law enforcement in the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Given this plethora of agencies and agency sizes it's inevitable that standards of training, overall competence, record keeping etc. will vary enormously.

OB

Yes but what if you have national standards?

 

[Desk trauma]

Yes but what if you have national standards?

I’m surprised we still have national standards for what side of the road to drive on.

 

[Occams Barber]

Yes but what if you have national standards?

With 18,000 police services, varying from Gotham PD to the Mayberry Sheriff's Office or the FBI to Smalltown U Campus Cops, I don't see how it's remotely possible to maintain a cohesive national standard (assuming there is one). Recruitment standards will vary enormously as will standards of training, supervision and policing.

OB

 

[Tuur]

but for some reason, more of these are going unreported.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/investigations/interactive/2022/fatal-police-shootings-unreported/


My thoughts are simply something I'm repeating from before:
America has a policing problem. Your bar to be come a policeman is FAAAAAAAAAAAAAAR too low.

If the fatal police shootings are going unreported, how does the Washington Post know about them?

 

[rambot]

If the fatal police shootings are going unreported, how does the Washington Post know about them?

The Washington Post set up the "Fatal Force" database to track police shootings. Apparently their numbers don't match with the FBI numbers. So between that and this:

Statistica shows us this:

People shot to death by U.S. police, by race 2022 | Statista

Suddenly in 2021 and 2022....the number of people whose race is "unknown" triples.


Things seem a bit fishy to me.

 

[Tuur]

Since you're not a US citizen, you may not know that police shootings are usually investigated by the state department of investigation in order to move it out of the hands of the police department / sheriff's office where it occurred. Whether or not you accept that is up to you.

 

[DaisyDay]

The main reason the FBI database is under-reported is that the police departments voluntarily report on themselves - or neglect to. There is no requirement to report accurately - or at all.

 

[DaisyDay]

Since you're not a US citizen, you may not know that police shootings are usually investigated by the state department of investigation in order to move it out of the hands of the police department / sheriff's office where it occurred. Whether or not you accept that is up to you.

But if the state neglects to report their fatal police shootings to the feds, who will hold them accountable?

https://wapo.st/3P8wVQZ

 

[Tuur]

But if the state neglects to report their fatal police shootings to the feds, who will hold them accountable?

https://wapo.st/3P8wVQZ

That assumes it's a crime not to report it. I think some states don't report any crime data to the FBI, at least in one data set I looked for a little while back. That's different than the implication that it's being hidden, which was my point about state departments of investigation looking onto police shootings.

 

[DaisyDay]

That assumes it's a crime not to report it.

No, I specifically said that reporting was voluntary and that some choose not to report on themselves. Under these circumstances, who will hold them accountable? Or do you think that no accounting is called for period?

I think some states don't report any crime data to the FBI, at least in one data set I looked for a little while back. That's different than the implication that it's being hidden, which was my point about state departments of investigation looking onto police shootings.

It is hidden, whether deliberately or not.

 

[rambot]

That assumes it's a crime not to report it.

Help me understand: Does it seem reasonable and rational for the police to shoot someone and not report it to the Federal Bureau of investigations? And in what circumstances?

I think some states don't report any crime data to the FBI, at least in one data set I looked for a little while back. That's different than the implication that it's being hidden, which was my point about state departments of investigation looking onto police shootings.

Are there any third party analysis of police data in the US? I imagine it's different from jurisdiction to jurisidiction/state?

 

[Blade]

Just awful.. the left not the right wanted to defund the police and some States are still calling for it.

 

[Pommer]

Just awful.. the left not the right wanted to defund the police and some States are still calling for it.

Has that happened (defunding police) anywhere?

 

[Tuur]

Help me understand: Does it seem reasonable and rational for the police to shoot someone and not report it to the Federal Bureau of investigations? And in what circumstances?

The best way to explain it is that the US is like the EU, with member states like member nations. That's why they're called states. Our states aren't provinces, which means the FBI isn't part of a hierarchy that places them over state and local law enforcement.

Are there any third party analysis of police data in the US? I imagine it's different from jurisdiction to jurisidiction/state?

I was about to say no, then remembered that some states have gone to third parties to pull jury lists rather than to rely on local courts. This eliminates things like "good ol' boy" behavior, but it also means that a felon, which a Clerk of Court might know by name and not select for the jury pool, occasionally gets chosen. That's why judges in these places often ask "Do we have any felons here?" when selecting a jury.

Short answer is I don't know.

 

[Tuur]

No, I specifically said that reporting was voluntary and that some choose not to report on themselves. Under these circumstances, who will hold them accountable? Or do you think that no accounting is called for period?

If there was no accountability, then state bureaus of investigation wouldn't handle the inquiry.

 

[rambot]

The best way to explain it is that the US is like the EU, with member states like member nations. That's why they're called states. Our states aren't provinces, which means the FBI isn't part of a hierarchy that places them over state and local law enforcement.

I was about to say no, then remembered that some states have gone to third parties to pull jury lists rather than to rely on local courts. This eliminates things like "good ol' boy" behavior, but it also means that a felon, which a Clerk of Court might know by name and not select for the jury pool, occasionally gets chosen. That's why judges in these places often ask "Do we have any felons here?" when selecting a jury.

Short answer is I don't know.

So theoretically, there are areas in the US where there is NO meaningful police oversite by a third party?

 

[Tuur]

So theoretically, there are areas in the US where there is NO meaningful police oversite by a third party?

When you think about it, it would literally be like demanding a third party, maybe the UN, have oversight over Canadian police.

 

[rambot]

When you think about it, it would literally be like demanding a third party, maybe the UN, have oversight over Canadian police.

Nope. We have third party oversight over every level of police service. In my province we have ASIRT (Alberta Serious Incident Reporting Team).
And I BELIEVE (though I could be wrong) that the RCMP also have their own body.