‘Get rid of them trash books,’ - West Michigan library millage fails again over LGBTQ books

[essentialsaltes]

It was.

Post #208

Still, given the mature content, she’d initially placed it in the adult section — near novels with heterosexual sex scenes. As the objections mounted, though, she moved “Gender Queer” behind the counter, making it available only upon request.

 

[Whyayeman]

But I never thought of the United States or any country as Gods country.

Sorry to be late with this; I have been busy.

Every Englisnman knows that God's country is Yorkshire. As for apologies to the Celts from the Anglo-Saxons, you won't find very many of either. Much of the country was taken over by Vikings - and they don't apologise for anything! But, you know, the Romans and the Normans had something to do with it too. Should the Picts say sorry to the Scots for chucking them out of their country?

And what about the Jutes? Eh? Eh?

 

[Belk]

Sorry to be late with this; I have been busy.

Every Englisnman knows that God's country is Yorkshire. As for apologies to the Celts from the Anglo-Saxons, you won't find very many of either. Much of the country was taken over by Vikings - and they don't apologise for anything! But, you know, the Romans and the Normans had something to do with it too. Should the Picts say sorry to the Scots for chucking them out of their country?

And what about the Jutes? Eh? Eh?

I thought the Picts are what became the Scots? My understanding is they migrated over from Ireland which makes the Scotish, Irishmen who could swim.

 

[Whyayeman]

I thought the Picts are what became the Scots? My understanding is they migrated over from Ireland which makes the Scotish, Irishmen who could swim.

Could be that. My main source for the period is '1066 and All That', so maybe unrerliable.

What seems plain enough is that there was a lot of movement and mixing of peoples. I think the main element of my Northern Englishness is Danish (the Danelaw). One side of the family has roots in Cornwall (Celtish) but also Lowland Scots ( Danish again). No doubt some Norman soldiery have made their mark too.

 

[Ligurian]

It sounds like you don't have kids.

Because I don't respond the way you do?

 

[Ligurian]

I thought the Picts are what became the Scots? My understanding is they migrated over from Ireland which makes the Scotish, Irishmen who could swim.

The Picts are Caledonians. The Scots are Scythians, according to their own records... yes, Scots and Irish are the same. But the indigenous race is none of the above.

 

[Bradskii]

Because I don't respond the way you do?

No. Because you don't seem to understand the relationship between a child and a teacher.

 

[Ligurian]

No. Because you don't seem to understand the relationship between a child and a teacher.

And I don't think like you do, either.

 

[Bradskii]

And I don't think like you do, either.

Well, at least you have agreed that the child/teacher relationship is something you don't understand.

 

[Ana the Ist]

It is a library, not a court.

Yeah...I'm sure you know that the law also applies to libraries.

Yes, among children who have experienced a number of other issues. I read the piece cited. The picture is more complex than a simple correlation between exposure to sexual matters and 'risky sexual behaviour' as pointed out in this extract.

Risky sexual behavior in adolescence is influenced by several important life domains, such as family/parents, peer, and individual factors. For example, several family-related factors, such as harsh parenting [10–11], low parental control [12], and family cohesion [13] have been identified as risk factors for sexual risk taking behavior and the underlying mechanisms are also presented (e.g., low parental control→low impulsive control→risky behavior or early maltreatment→negative emotions→risky behavior). Similarly, other studies argued from different theoretical perspectives and found possible precursors of risky sexual behaviors.

I wasn't making the claim that it was the only factor.

It has long been my view that the most important factor in the safe sexual development of children is home.

Great.

Books are a very pure substitute for good sex education. Let us be clear. I do not support having inappropriate contentography available to school children in public libraries. I have worked with librarians; I have never met one who would advocate such a thing.

And what part of my claim does this have something to do with?

It's a pretty simple claim.

(Note that the books which angered the voters are not known to us. Random examples of filthy books do not advance the case for the closure of a public library.)

Sure....though I believe other articles do provide examples. I'll see what I can find...

 

[Ana the Ist]

Here you go....

This Book Is Gay — Patmos Library

This Book Is Gay — Dawson, Juno — <p><strong>The bestselling young adult non-fiction book on sexuality and gender! </strong></p><p><strong>Lesbian. Gay. Bisexual. Transgender. Queer. Straight. Curious. This book is for everyone, regardless of gender or sexual preference. This book is for anyone...

patmos.bibliocommons.com

 

[Whyayeman]

Here you go....

This Book Is Gay — Patmos Library

This Book Is Gay — Dawson, Juno — <p><strong>The bestselling young adult non-fiction book on sexuality and gender! </strong></p><p><strong>Lesbian. Gay. Bisexual. Transgender. Queer. Straight. Curious. This book is for everyone, regardless of gender or sexual preference. This book is for anyone...

patmos.bibliocommons.com

That is recommended for Grade 10 upwards. Young Adults section, I should think. It originated in the UK where 16 is the age of consent. I really don't see why it should not be on library shelves.

 

[Ana the Ist]

That is recommended for Grade 10 upwards. Young Adults section, I should think. It originated in the UK where 16 is the age of consent. I really don't see why it should not be on library shelves.

That is recommended for Grade 10 upwards. Young Adults section, I should think.

Is that something enforced at the library? If they catch a kid perusing it and they're only 12....does the librarian remove the book and call the parents?

It originated in the UK where 16 is the age of consent. I really don't see why it should not be on library shelves.

Have you seen what's inside it?

 

[Whyayeman]

Is that something enforced at the library? If they catch a kid perusing it and they're only 12....does the librarian remove the book and call the parents?





Have you seen what's inside it?

Do you think young adults should be protected?

 

[Ana the Ist]

Do you think young adults should be protected?

Well first of all...here in the US, YA fiction and nonfiction seems to refer to 12-18 years old. Perhaps that's different in the UK. I don't know if there's a strict age range system....but several sites seem to indicate 12-18yo.

Secondly, before we discuss whether or not the book is appropriate....we need to know what's in it. I've seen a YouTube video where a woman explains each page, page by page, and it's not something I would want anyone under 18 reading.


But it's unfair if I'm the only one who knows what's in the book.

Do you know what's in it?

 

[Bradskii]

...and it's not something I would want anyone under 18 reading.

A local 16 year old girl walks in and wants to borrow the book for her husband (Michigan law allows marriage at 16). You refuse her because you think she's too young. So her husband who is a Marine says he'll borrow it. But you say he's too young at 17.

So you can get married at 16 or 17 (18 without parental consent) and you can join the armed forces and fight for your country at 17 but...you think they're too young to read a book that you can buy in your local Barnes and Nobel.
(STAFF EDITED)

 

[Whyayeman]

Well first of all...here in the US, YA fiction and nonfiction seems to refer to 12-18 years old. Perhaps that's different in the UK. I don't know if there's a strict age range system....but several sites seem to indicate 12-18yo.

Secondly, before we discuss whether or not the book is appropriate....we need to know what's in it. I've seen a YouTube video where a woman explains each page, page by page, and it's not something I would want anyone under 18 reading.


But it's unfair if I'm the only one who knows what's in the book.

Do you know what's in it?

Actually no. Nor the context, nor the intention. My inclination is to trust professional librarians with their selection policy; of course this is based on my experience of English libraries. I have only been in one American public library and I could easily have mistaken it for my own local library at home. I have not heard of cases in the UK where books have been banned for their sexual content since the 'Lady Chatterley's Lover' trial some seventy years ago.

Another point made above is that I have never thought keeping knowledge from children (or adults for that matter) was good for them or for the rest of us. Ignorance does not equate to innocence; in fact it is often dangerous. I look at it this way. If a developing young person (young adult is an unsatisfactory term as this thread demonstrates) is lacking some understanding he or she should be helped to understand. In the sexual education field there are (still) many adults who have difficulty communicating with their charges. It is better that somebody takes responsibility.

Some young people themselves can find it difficult to discuss their problems with those closest to them. Teachers may be in a position to help - and public libraries.

What is to be afraid of?

 

[Ana the Ist]

A local 16 year old girl walks in and wants to borrow the book for her husband (Michigan law allows marriage at 16). You refuse her because you think she's too young. So her husband who is a Marine says he'll borrow it. But you say he's too young at 17.

So you can get married at 16 or 17 (18 without parental consent) and you can join the armed forces and fight for your country at 17 but...you think they're too young to read a book that you can buy in your local Barnes and Nobel.

You want to build our society around the outside possibilities created by the most unlikely of scenarios?


Here's what your 16yo wife can do....

She can buy the book, online if she has no local bookstore.

She can travel over to the neighboring county, and check out the book from their library.


Anything else?

 

[Ana the Ist]

A local 16 year old girl walks in and wants to borrow the book for her husband (Michigan law allows marriage at 16). You refuse her because you think she's too young. So her husband who is a Marine says he'll borrow it. But you say he's too young at 17.

So you can get married at 16 or 17 (18 without parental consent) and you can join the armed forces and fight for your country at 17 but...you think they're too young to read a book that you can buy in your local Barnes and Nobel. This Book Is Gay|Paperback

Dp.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Well it's really important that in America you have freedom.

The freedom to ban books is foundational to the freedom of freedom.

The freedom to write books with words in them is not freedom of speech. We must not confuse freedom of speech with the freedom to attempt to use public governments and bodies to ban speech.

We ban books that endanger people. inappropriate content and sodomy books endanger people, peoples, nations, and the human race.
Certainly, we ban them.