Why are school shootings a sole unique American problem?

[Arcangl86]

As much as I hate wikipedia, I will use it as my source because it's a democrat leaning site. So I'm swinging the numbers in your direction to not be biased in which source I use.

According to: Estimated number of civilian guns per capita by country - Wikipedia

The USA population in 2017 was 326,474,000. There were 1,073,743 registered guns among the civilian population. That is one gun for every 304 people.

The Israeli population in 2017 was 8,323,000. There were 290,000 registered guns among the civilian population. That is one gun for every 28.7 people.

Now. That is cold hard facts right there. You can go around estimating the number of unregistered guns all you want, but all you are doing is making up numbers. And I do believe there is a higher % of unregistered guns in USA, but I do not believe it overrides the fact that Israelis also are packing their own share of unregistered guns.

Additionally, as I mentioned, Israelis are all drafted into the IDF. They are required to carry a gun with them everywhere they go. Even while off duty.

So, anyone can make graph, fudge the numbers, post baloney statistics, and gullible people are convinced.

And just to clarify, Fender, I am not accusing you of lying, but only that you posted other people's lies. There is an agenda to disarm America. A nation unarmed is a nation vulnerable. I partly agree with you on gun safety, it needs to be a required course for all students and perhaps all gun owners. But banning guns is not the answer.

Daily life in Israel:
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You are cherry picking numbers. Yes there were only about one million guns registered. But that's because there is no federal gun registry and only a small handful of states require any guns to be registered, and often not all of them. The same table estimated 390 million guns total in the US, which is 120 guns per 100 people, or 18 TIMES the estimate ratio in Israel of 6.7 guns per person. Even assuming for some slosh in the numbers, there is no feasible way that Israel comes within even shouting distance of our gun ownership. We are the only country in the world to have more guns then people.

 

[Tuur]

I would bet even Switzerland, which mandates gun ownership, does not allow the types of guns that we Americans are not protected from.

Somehow I doubt there would be roving bands of firearms in Europe, laws or no laws. We don't even have them in the US.

In the the US, the episodes we've had where we've attempted gun control have always been to prevent specific people to protect other specific people. The spark that turned colonial discontent to open fighting was the British attempt to confiscate arms in Massachusetts in April, 1775. To help prevent a Haiti and Nat Turner uprising in the US, slaves and blacks were forbidden from owning weapons. After the US Civil War, existing laws against weapon ownership were enforced against the newly freed slaves. And after the arms of blacks were confiscated, the men in white hoods came around. Curious thing, that.

 

[Bradskii]

In the the US, the episodes we've had where we've attempted gun control....

Perhaps rather than nonsensically trying to compare today's problem with situations in the 18th century you could perhaps address it it a little more contemporaneously. Maybe what Canada has done fairly recently perhaps.

And we're not talking about confiscating weapons either. So your example was nonsensical in one sense and irrelevant in another.

 

[Tuur]

Perhaps rather than nonsensically trying to compare today's problem with situations in the 18th century you could perhaps address it it a little more contemporaneously. Maybe what Canada has done fairly recently perhaps.

And we're not talking about confiscating weapons either. So your example was nonsensical in one sense and irrelevant in another.

It's history, and yes, it will lead to confiscation, just as it has in the past. There's no reason to think that doing the same thing this time would yield different results.

 

[Fantine]

This Lent, wouldn't it be wonderful if gun owners would fast from their guns, securely lock them away.

A sacrifice for the Prince of Peace.
You would probably be amazed at how unnecessary they are in today's world and how little you miss them.

I've lived 73 years blissfully gun free. 40 of those years were in metropolitan New York. Four of those years I rode the subway back and forth to work everyday. I have lived in small towns and the biggest city in the country and I have never felt the imminent threat and discomfort that so many of you seem to suffer daily. I trust in God, the people I encounter, and my own good sense in not tempting faith and seeking out danger.

 

[Torah Keeper]

You are cherry picking numbers. Yes there were only about one million guns registered. But that's because there is no federal gun registry and only a small handful of states require any guns to be registered, and often not all of them. The same table estimated 390 million guns total in the US, which is 120 guns per 100 people, or 18 TIMES the estimate ratio in Israel of 6.7 guns per person. Even assuming for some slosh in the numbers, there is no feasible way that Israel comes within even shouting distance of our gun ownership. We are the only country in the world to have more guns then people.

These "estimations" of unregistered guns, are quite bluntly, horse manure.

 

[rambot]

Somehow I doubt there would be roving bands of firearms in Europe, laws or no laws. We don't even have them in the US.

In the the US, the episodes we've had where we've attempted gun control have always been to prevent specific people to protect other specific people. The spark that turned colonial discontent to open fighting was the British attempt to confiscate arms in Massachusetts in April, 1775. To help prevent a Haiti and Nat Turner uprising in the US, slaves and blacks were forbidden from owning weapons. After the US Civil War, existing laws against weapon ownership were enforced against the newly freed slaves. And after the arms of blacks were confiscated, the men in white hoods came around. Curious thing, that.

And since the number of black people killing white people was probably terribly low AFTER that confiscation, clearly it worked.

These "estimations" of unregistered guns, are quite bluntly, horse manure.

Because there's no unregistered guns in America? That seems....quirky....

 

[Torah Keeper]

You can go around estimating the number of unregistered guns all you want, but all you are doing is making up numbers. And I do believe there is a higher % of unregistered guns in USA, but I do not believe it overrides the fact that Israelis also are packing their own share of unregistered guns.

Because there's no unregistered guns in America? That seems....quirky....

Did you actually read anything I wrote? I never said there are no unregistered guns in America. I did say the "estimated" number of unregistered guns is "horse manure", because it is. The only number we know for certain is the number of registered guns.

USA has one registered gun for every 304 people, and Israel has one registered gun for every 28.7 people. Both USA and Israel have an unknown number of unregistered guns. The most logical way to estimate the number of unregistered guns is to base it on the number of registered guns. It is extremely unlikely that USA has the highest ratio of registered vs unregistered guns in the world, especially at such a ridiculous ratio.

Don't you think it is a tad suspicious that USA supposedly has an absurdly high number of unregistered guns? Especially when you consider countries like Congo, Afghanistan, North Korea, etc. Do you think every member of ISIS makes sure to register their M-16 at the local station? Come on....

 

[Torah Keeper]

You are cherry picking numbers. Yes there were only about one million guns registered. But that's because there is no federal gun registry and only a small handful of states require any guns to be registered, and often not all of them. The same table estimated 390 million guns total in the US, which is 120 guns per 100 people, or 18 TIMES the estimate ratio in Israel of 6.7 guns per person. Even assuming for some slosh in the numbers, there is no feasible way that Israel comes within even shouting distance of our gun ownership. We are the only country in the world to have more guns then people.

Because these numbers are nonsense. Firstly, most Americans do not own a gun. You must remember that this ridiculous estimation of unregistered guns includes every man, woman, and child in USA.

Next, you are including a baloney number of unregistered guns pulled out of a politician's rear end for USA, and on top of that, you assume that Israel has absolutely 0% unregistered guns at all. Again, this is horse manure. Your 18 to 1 ratio is absolutely made up.

Please, use REAL numbers, like the ones I provided. And stop believing the propaganda.

 

[Arcangl86]

USA has one registered gun for every 304 people, and Israel has one registered gun for every 28.7 people. Both USA and Israel have an unknown number of unregistered guns. The most logical way to estimate the number of unregistered guns is to base it on the number of registered guns. It is extremely unlikely that USA has the highest ratio of registered vs unregistered guns in the world, especially at such a ridiculous ratio.

There is no national firearm registry, nor can there be because there is a federal law preventing it. There are also no registries in something like 45 states, with only one state of the few that have a registry requiring all firearms to be registered. So of course, there's going to be a huge discrepancy between registered and unregistered guns. I don't know for sure what methodlogy people are using to estimate, but I'm sure at least part of it is tracking firearm sales.

 

[Torah Keeper]

I don't know for sure

Exactly

 

[Gene2memE]

There have been more that 100 million NEW firearms sales in the US since 2011. Including just under 40 million since 2020!

https://s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/fonteva-customer-media/00D15000000NbUBEA0/SwBudmKw_2021_12_NSSF_NICS_NICS_Annual_Total_History_pdf

Did all those guns just evaporate, or are your numbers just wrong and you're doubling down when corrected?

 

[Arcangl86]

Because these numbers are nonsense. Firstly, most Americans do not own a gun. You must remember that this ridiculous estimation of unregistered guns includes every man, woman, and child in USA.

Next, you are including a baloney number of unregistered guns pulled out of a politician's rear end for USA, and on top of that, you assume that Israel has absolutely 0% unregistered guns at all. Again, this is horse manure. Your 18 to 1 ratio is absolutely made up.

Please, use REAL numbers, like the ones I provided. And stop believing the propaganda.

Most Americans don't own guns, that's true. Most Americans who own guns own multiple guns.

And the number I'm using was not "pulled out of a politicians rear end" but complied by the Graduate Institute of International and Development Students in Switzerland. The Small Arms Survey is highly respected. And no I didn't assume Israel had 0% unregistered guns. I used the estimated number of guns for both countries. Abd you want to use real numbers, how about this. In 2021 alone the FBI ran over 21 million background checks for people attempting to purchase weapons. And the NICS checks, since the program started, only has about a .5% rejection rate. Now let's be generous and say as many as 20% of people changed their mind and didn't actually purchase a gun. That' still over 18 million in a single year, which is itself 18 times higher than the number of registered weapons since again, only a small proportion of weapons need to be registered.

 

[Torah Keeper]

Most Americans don't own guns, that's true. Most Americans who own guns own multiple guns.

And the number I'm using was not "pulled out of a politicians rear end" but complied by the Graduate Institute of International and Development Students in Switzerland. The Small Arms Survey is highly respected. And no I didn't assume Israel had 0% unregistered guns. I used the estimated number of guns for both countries. Abd you want to use real numbers, how about this. In 2021 alone the FBI ran over 21 million background checks for people attempting to purchase weapons. And the NICS checks, since the program started, only has about a .5% rejection rate. Now let's be generous and say as many as 20% of people changed their mind and didn't actually purchase a gun. That' still over 18 million in a single year, which is itself 18 times higher than the number of registered weapons since again, only a small proportion of weapons need to be registered.

Nope. Because you are incorrectly assuming that all of those 18 million guns will never be registered anywhere during their entire existence. The "estimated" number of guns for both countries is horse manure. That's what I keep saying. And you keep posting the same stuff I keep refuting.

And I do not trust the FBI. In fact I don't really trust any government agency at all these days. These numbers are as credible as Hillary Clinton. You may as well have pulled them from Hunter Biden's laptop.

Again, do you really believe that ISIS are good little boys and always register their M-16s at the local station? Why then does Afghanistan have such an honest citizenry that makes sure to register their guns? Why is America made to be the ONLY nation on Earth with an absurdly ridiculous number of unregistered guns per citizen?

Don't believe everything you are told.

 

[Arcangl86]

Nope. Because you are incorrectly assuming that all of those 18 million guns will never be registered anywhere during their entire existence. The "estimated" number of guns for both countries is horse manure. That's what I keep saying. And you keep posting the same stuff I keep refuting.

And I do not trust the FBI. In fact I don't really trust any government agency at all these days. These numbers are as credible as Hillary Clinton. You may as well have pulled them from Hunter Biden's laptop.

Again, do you really believe that ISIS are good little boys and always register their M-16s at the local station? Why then does Afghanistan have such an honest citizenry that makes sure to register their guns? Why is America made to be the ONLY nation on Earth with an absurdly ridiculous number of unregistered guns per citizen?

Don't believe everything you are told.

That's the thing though, you haven't been refuting it. You are just saying it's wrong without evidence. And if you don't trust any government agency, why are you harping so much on the numbered of registered firearms. And the list from the Small Arms Registry listed N/A for Afghanistan when it came to registered/unregistered. And as for why we have such a high number of unregistered guns, once again it is because there is no national gun registry and only 5 states require any of their guns to be registered, and only one of those states require all. That's why people rely on gun sales to estimate how many guns are in the US.

 

[Gene2memE]

Four polls are conducted regularly on how many American adults own firearms - Pew, Gallup, the General Social Survey, and Georgetown University.

All four of those found that the proportion of US adults who own a firearm is in the range of 30-34%.

What Percentage of Americans Own Guns?

Read Gallup's short answer to this common question about gun ownership, including what percentages of major demographic subgroups own guns.

news.gallup.com

The demographics of gun ownership

Understanding gun ownership in America is not as simple as knowing who does and does not own a gun. Some Americans who don’t personally own guns live with

www.pewresearch.org

https://www.norc.org/PDFs/GSS%20Reports/GSS_Trends%20in%20Gun%20Ownership_US_1972-2014.pdf

2021 National Firearms Survey

This report summarizes the findings of a national survey of firearms ownership and use conducted between February 17th and March 23rd, 2021 by the professional

papers.ssrn.com

So, are four independent polling organisations with corroborating evidence wrong? Or is random person on the internet spewing conspiracy theories wrong?

Tough call on that one.

 

[Torah Keeper]

listed N/A for Afghanistan when it came to registered/unregistered

Of course they did. Just like with other countries too. Can't make USA be #2 in gun ownership. Politics politics....

 

[mark46]

A VERY DIFFICULT ANALYSIS

The US has 4% of the world's population.

The US has over 40% of the world guns held by private citizens.

Maybe, just maybe, more guns is associated with more gum violence
=================
We need to face facts. As a society, we have made a choice. We have chosen to allow the unfettered access to assault weapons and other guns. We can reduce the violence a bit, but not much if guns are so accessible. We need to learn to live with the violence. We have made the choice to allow our citizens (and especially children) to die every day. just so macho men can carry their masculinity and attack other when they wish.
============
But yes, we could do the obvious. We could have every gun, every crime, and more is a national data base so that the number of deaths might be reduced.

And yes, the police need to have much MORE guns, and more powerful ones (along with mandatory cams).

 

[Bradskii]

It's history, and yes, it will lead to confiscation, just as it has in the past. There's no reason to think that doing the same thing this time would yield different results.

Nobody has suggested it or has proposed it. It's not on the table for discussion. Rejecting a discussion about restrictions such as Canada has because 'they'll want to take the guns eventually' is not acceptable. So let's do this again.

On the basis that removing guns is not an option, can you comment on why similar restrictions on gun ownership as Canada has could not be implemented in the US?

 

[Tuur]

And since the number of black people killing white people was probably terribly low AFTER that confiscation, clearly it worked.

Given the history of lynching, that's a tasteless thing to write.