Trinity proof verses

[concretecamper]

Convenient you ignored the latter half of that post,

No I didn't

The Nicene-Constantinople definition is a sufficient understanding of the Trinity

No it is not. Even the Athanasius Creed isn't sufficient (which goes wayyyyy beyond the Nicene-Constantinople Creed)

So what source did they use for Apostolic tradition?

Tradition IS the source.

If there is some critical source of Apostolic tradition necessary in addition to the ordinary canon to establish something as fundamental as Trinity, why was it not included in the canon and where can it be publically read?

Because the canon of a scripture was never meant to contain all Christian truths.

If what we have in canon was sufficient then, how and when did it cease being sufficient?

The canon was never sufficient to completely explain the Doctrine of the Trinity or The Incarnation. Otherwise, you wouldn't have needed the early councils of the Church.

 

[concretecamper]

Keeping in mind that to be deep in Scripture is what matters. . .

I'm sure you know what you mean.

 

[Fervent]

The canon was never sufficient to completely explain the Doctrine of the Trinity or The Incarnation. Otherwise, you wouldn't have needed the early councils of the Church.

So what you're saying is the councils innovated and added to the faith?

 

[concretecamper]

So what you're saying is the councils innovated and added to the faith?

No, these Council preserved the faith. That is the Church's job. To combat heresy. That's what Nicaea and Ephesus did, that's what Trent did.

 

[Andrewn]

and he shall be called wonderful, counsellor, mighty God, everlasting father the prince of peace.

This is similar to the MT and different from the LXX which has, "His name will be called the Angel of Great Counsel, for I shall bring peace upon the rulers, peace and health by Him." It looks like the editors of LXX mistranslated this verse.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

This is similar to the MT and different from the LXX which has, "His name will be called the Angel of Great Counsel, for I shall bring peace upon the rulers, peace and health by Him." It looks like the editors of LXX mistranslated this verse.

It makes a huge difference. I wonder why the disparity? I belive I read somewhere that it did not sit well with the Jewish scribes of that time.

 

[Clare73]

No I didn't
No it is not. Even the Athanasius Creed isn't sufficient (which goes wayyyyy beyond the Nicene-Constantinople Creed)
Tradition IS the source.
Because the canon of a scripture was never meant to contain all Christian truths.

Scripture is the judge of all truth.

If it's not found in, or in disagreement with, Scripture, we have no basis for believing it is true.

The canon was never sufficient to completely explain the Doctrine of the Trinity or The Incarnation. Otherwise, you wouldn't have needed the early councils of the Church.

Those explanations are useful to defend what is found in Scripture, and are Biblical to that degree only.

 

[Clare73]

I'm sure you know what you mean.

Indeed!. . .how unfortunate if you don't.

My meaning would be what the words state.

 

[concretecamper]

If it's not found in, or in disagreement with, Scripture, we have no basis for believing it is true.

Unscriptural belief. You are free to believe this man made teaching, but I follow Christ.

 

[concretecamper]

Those explanations are useful to defend what is found in Scripture, and are Biblical to that degree only.

Man made idea. Good luck with that.

 

[concretecamper]

Indeed!. . .how unfortunate if you don't.

Or, extremely fortunate

 

[Clare73]

Man made idea. Good luck with that.

Unscriptural belief. You are free to believe this man made teaching, but I follow Christ.

Assertion without Bilbical demonstration is without Biblical merit.

 

[Clare73]

Or, extremely fortunate

Depending on your point of view. . .

 

[Fervent]

No, these Council preserved the faith. That is the Church's job. To combat heresy. That's what Nicaea and Ephesus did, that's what Trent did.

So they weren't innovations, which means they were looking at some kind of records. So what were their sources that they examined to determine what the historic faith and practice was? Where did they look to find the teaching of the Apostle's?

 

[concretecamper]

So they weren't innovations, which means they were looking at some kind of records. So what were their sources that they examined to determine what the historic faith and practice was? Where did they look to find the teaching of the Apostle's?

They looked to Sacred Tradition, part of which was the written part that we call The Bible.

 

[concretecamper]

Assertion without Bilbical demonstration is without Biblical merit.

Precisely why you can't back you your claims.

 

[Fervent]

They looked to Sacred Tradition, part of which was the written part that we call The Bible.

Only part of sacred tradition? Where was the rest of it?

 

[Clare73]

Precisely why you can't back you your claims.

Assertion without Biblical demonstration is assertion without merit.

 

[concretecamper]

Only part of sacred tradition? Where was the rest of it?

In reference to the Trinity, all you need to do is take the Athanasius Creed and try to find everything that is contained in it and where it is taught in the Bible. Hint, you won't be able to. All your missing pieces is Sacred Tradition, All the teachings of the Apostles, all the teachings of the Fathers, the very life of the Church itself.

 

[Fervent]

In reference to the Trinity, all you need to do is take the Athanasius Creed and try to find everything that is contained in it taught in the Bible. Hint, you won't be able to. All your missing pieces is the unwritten Sacred Tradition.

"unwritten sacred tradition"? Sorry, I didn't realize I was talking with a gnostic.