‘Get rid of them trash books,’ - West Michigan library millage fails again over LGBTQ books

[Pommer]

Please show me that any of the research done in sexually explicit material focused on certain titles. That's not how research works. But you know this I think. The research deals with sexually explicit material. Are pictures of people having oral sex sexually explicit or not?
You actually expect that someone will take this specific book and do funded research on it? How long would they have to research it? How many years would they have to research the kids to see if anything damaged them? You know how long research takes and you know how it has to be done and funded. You are not an ignorant person. You know it's not done like that. Why on earth would you expect that in this case?

I’m trying to wrap my mind around how such a study (“Does Exposure to Sexually Explicit Literature Harm Children?”, say) might be carried out?

I looked on Google scholar and found none. If you want your argument to have credence, maybe you hunt it. You are confident it exists I'm less so based on my short search. Links to actual studies please.


I mean that said, you don't define:
1. What does "graphic sexual content entail"
2. Frequency
3. Affects
So really. I'm sure there would be some kind of effect on kids. But without a definition, it's a moot argument.

Not to tell your your bidness (after the horse has bolted), but searching for these terms together might require “stealth-mode” on you browser and a VPN, just sayin’.

 

[Pommer]

Do you think the Jou of Sex should be in the kids section or not? Why or why not? Answer those questions and I'll answer yours.

Freudian typo?

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

"In God We Trust" used to be written on the back of dollar bills. Since the 10 commandments used to be in government buildings, then it must have been that god, right? Is the USA under a different god now... one that doesn't care about unisexuality?

The United States is stolen land. Indians were raped, murdered, and they had to flee for their lives. Putting God's stamp on the United States or any country. Doesn't make this land Gods land. I don't care if the 10 commandments stay in government buildings. Or God We Trust is on bills. I had no idea they took God We Trust off of bill. I don't pay attention. But I never thought of the United States or any country as Gods country. It didn't work in the bible. I think religions are wrong to try to force their belief and morals on us. And it doesn't bring people to God at all. It does the opposite. As for LGBTQ, that between them. Some of them have doctors. And that between them and their doctors. Not a bunch of people, that have no clue what they are talking about. Yes, schools teach about it about it. Parents have to sign for permission to have their kids to be taught about it, where I live.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

Is the leftists contention on here that books showing graphic sexual images of oral sex are perfectly okay for kids to look at?

School libraries have age-appropriate material. As for public libraries. I've never seen anything about oral sex in the kid's area. Parents are responsible for what their kids look at. And should be with them. When they get library books. Since they are finically responsible for them. Young kids usually don't look for such items. Libraries have grown-ups, that keep an eye on the older kids. That might want to search for things they shouldn't. I've never seen porn at a library.

 

[Bradskii]

No I don't think there is a difference. Why do you think it's different. Say this book was made into a movie and it showed the oral sex. Would it be okay then?

If you don't appreciate the difference then I think we can all see why you think it's a problem.

 

[rjs330]

The United States is stolen land. Indians were raped, murdered, and they had to flee for their lives. Putting God's stamp on the United States or any country. Doesn't make this land Gods land. I don't care if the 10 commandments stay in government buildings. Or God We Trust is on bills. I had no idea they took God We Trust off of bill. I don't pay attention. But I never thought of the United States or any country as Gods country. It didn't work in the bible. I think religions are wrong to try to force their belief and morals on us. And it doesn't bring people to God at all. It does the opposite. As for LGBTQ, that between them. Some of them have doctors. And that between them and their doctors. Not a bunch of people, that have no clue what they are talking about. Yes, schools teach about it about it. Parents have to sign for permission to have their kids to be taught about it, where I live.

All land is stolen land. The Indians stole land, enslaved people, murdered and tortured people. Who cares if we conquered this land or purchased it from other countries. And it certainly could be God's land.

 

[Bradskii]

Who cares if we conquered this land...

The people you took it from.

 

[rjs330]

School libraries have age-appropriate material. As for public libraries. I've never seen anything about oral sex in the kid's area. Parents are responsible for what their kids look at. And should be with them. When they get library books. Since they are finically responsible for them. Young kids usually don't look for such items. Libraries have grown-ups, that keep an eye on the older kids. That might want to search for things they shouldn't. I've never seen porn at a library.

This book is soft core porn because it shows oral sex. And it's only leftists that are defending this and supporting it being allowed for children. It says something about the left.

 

[rjs330]

The people you took it from.

Who cares. They took land from people too. So did you guys. So have everyone. It's a silly whine. Where exactly does anyone expect any of us to go back to? What age should we all go back to where we all lived without any conquering others?

 

[Ligurian]

The United States is stolen land. Indians were raped, murdered, and they had to flee for their lives. Putting God's stamp on the United States or any country. Doesn't make this land Gods land. I don't care if the 10 commandments stay in government buildings. Or God We Trust is on bills. I had no idea they took God We Trust off of bill. I don't pay attention. But I never thought of the United States or any country as Gods country. It didn't work in the bible. I think religions are wrong to try to force their belief and morals on us. And it doesn't bring people to God at all. It does the opposite. As for LGBTQ, that between them. Some of them have doctors. And that between them and their doctors. Not a bunch of people, that have no clue what they are talking about. Yes, schools teach about it about it. Parents have to sign for permission to have their kids to be taught about it, where I live.

I've been thinking about why nations invade... it all seems to go back to Herdotus' story of the Scythians pushing the Cimmerians out of their lands. Were the Cimmerians the bad guys for being forced to move into someone else's land? Or should they have stayed and been genocided?

Not all of the colonists of the USA are what you say they were... some were sent (not to prison) to the colonies for stealing an apple or crust of bread. Their government was getting rid of the poor (probably indigenous Britons). Some were indentured servants who never became un-indentured... and their children became slaves as well. If you read the stories about that Columbus guy... he seems to have tried to make Natural Americans into slaves and didn't get very far. So he bought people who were for sale (by other Africans) in Africa... and the rest is common history. If you want to blame anyone, blame these guys.

People don't use paper money all that much anymore, do they? Or am I that far out of the loop? If not, then they won't even have to be reminded what the so-called founding fathers might have thought about judaism (10 commandments). Online purchases don't make you mark a box that says you agree with the statement: In God We Trust... before finalizing your checkout. Some credit card applications might mention gods... doubtful.

But the USA in general still CALLS itself judeo-christian, doesn't it? And even if not, there's no prohibition against religious reasons for not sanctioning this or that book by letting your silence be your consent to whatever they want to do with your tax dollars... which admittedly avoids the meaning of a Republic. (A true Republic seems to mean that you voted them in, so now you need to sit down and shut up until it's time to either keep them or vote them out.)

The issue of any country being a god's country is a matter of personal belief. I believe in a Creator being over all countries and local gods being over each nation. ... But morals are not a god-thing... Morals are simply a do-the-right-thing. Who wants to live where nobody has any sort of ethics or morality?

It's not about religion. It's about common decency... which, like common sense, seems to be an oxymoron.

As far as the OP topic goes, what the gays do is up to them. But I'm one of those people who think all bedroom acts should be done behind closed doors. I don't want to see anything that makes me want to yell, Get a room! I don't care if it sells, or who's selling it... it shouldn't be taught in school, or in the media.


-------edit-------

One more thing about your stolen land theme: Is it true that the Natural Americans didn't believe in land possession? ... Did the separate tribes fight each other for the possession of lands?

 

[Bradskii]

Who cares. They took land from people too. So did you guys. So have everyone. It's a silly whine. Where exactly does anyone expect any of us to go back to? What age should we all go back to where we all lived without any conquering others?

Nobody said you should go back. But if you took the land in the first place then acknowledging that fact, appreciating the pain it caused and doing one's best in making ammends would be good. As opposed to stating 'who cares..'

An apology would be nice as well. Something like this perhaps from our PM in 2008:

I move:

That today we honour the Indigenous peoples of this land, the oldest continuing cultures in human history.
We reflect on their past mistreatment.
We reflect in particular on the mistreatment of those who were Stolen Generations—this blemished chapter in our nation's history.
The time has now come for the nation to turn a new page in Australia's history by righting the wrongs of the past and so moving forward with confidence to the future.
We apologise for the laws and policies of successive Parliaments and governments that have inflicted profound grief, suffering and loss on these our fellow Australians.
We apologise especially for the removal of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children from their families, their communities and their country.
For the pain, suffering, and hurt of these Stolen Generations, their descendants and for their families left behind, we say sorry.
To the mothers and the fathers, the brothers and the sisters, for the breaking up of families and communities, we say sorry.
And for the indignity and degradation thus inflicted on a proud people and a proud culture, we say sorry.
We the Parliament of Australia respectfully request that this apology be received in the spirit in which it is offered as part of the healing of the nation.
For the future we take heart; resolving that this new page in the history of our great continent can now be written.
We today take this first step by acknowledging the past and laying claim to a future that embraces all Australians.
A future where this Parliament resolves that the injustices of the past must never, never happen again.
A future where we harness the determination of all Australians, Indigenous and non-Indigenous, to close the gap that lies between us in life expectancy, educational achievement, and economic opportunity.
A future where we embrace the possibility of new solutions to enduring problems where old approaches have failed.
A future based on mutual respect, mutual resolve and mutual responsibility.

A future where all Australians, whatever their origins, are truly equal partners, with equal opportunities and with an equal stake in shaping the next chapter in the history of this great country, Australia.

— Kevin Rudd, Prime Minister of Australia, 13 February 2008, at a sitting of the Parliament of Australia.

 

[Ligurian]

Nobody said you should go back. But if you took the land in the first place then acknowledging that fact, appreciating the pain it caused and doing one's best in making ammends would be good. As opposed to stating 'who cares..'

An apology would be nice as well. Something like this perhaps from our PM in 2008:
...
For the pain, suffering, and hurt of these Stolen Generations, their descendants and for their families left behind, we say sorry. ...

Welsh people were virtually kidnapped by their overlord-government to go to the colonies... and work the minefields of Australia. Something tells me the Anglo-Saxons won't be apologizing for the theft of Albion, either.

 

[Bradskii]

Welsh people were virtually kidnapped by their overlord-government to go to the colonies... and work the minefields of Australia. Where's their apology? Lost in the mail?

Well I'm Welsh and never felt the need for an apology. And I have to say that getting sent to Australia to work in the mines would be seen as something of a plus rather than spending a life in the cold and damp valleys. It's a very pleasant 23C here in Sydney today. And pouring down at 4C in my home town of Swansea.

 

[Ligurian]

Well I'm Welsh and never felt the need for an apology. And I have to say that getting sent to Australia to work in the mines would be seen as something of a plus rather than spending a life in the cold and damp valleys. It's a very pleasant 23C here in Sydney today. And pouring down at 4C in my home town of Swansea.

You think the indigenes of Australia should get an apology... but the Cymry and Lloegrwys and Brython should not?
Huh. I'm only half Lloegrwys and I sure think so.

 

[CRAZY_CAT_WOMAN]

This book is soft core porn because it shows oral sex. And it's only leftists that are defending this and supporting it being allowed for children. It says something about the left.

What part of the library is it at. Since they have different sections of the library. Grownup friendly, kid friendly or teen friendly. You talk about oral sex. Oral sex might be part of sex education. But that's in 8 or 9th grade. And sometimes too late. Hint that some teens were pregnant or had abortions by 8 grades. It's up to the parents to control what their kids watch. Books don't need to be ban. Unless it's full of lies, when it claims to be true. Kids are watching plenty of filth in their homes. And these aren't just liberal homes. I assure kids know about sex, and it's not from the library or school.

 

[rjs330]

Nobody said you should go back. But if you took the land in the first place then acknowledging that fact, appreciating the pain it caused and doing one's best in making ammends would be good. As opposed to stating 'who cares..'

An apology would be nice as well. Something like this perhaps from our PM in 2008:

I move:

That today we honour the Indigenous peoples of this land, the oldest continuing cultures in human history.
We reflect on their past mistreatment.
We reflect in particular on the mistreatment of those who were Stolen Generations—this blemished chapter in our nation's history.
The time has now come for the nation to turn a new page in Australia's history by righting the wrongs of the past and so moving forward with confidence to the future.
We apologise for the laws and policies of successive Parliaments and governments that have inflicted profound grief, suffering and loss on these our fellow Australians.
We apologise especially for the removal of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander children from their families, their communities and their country.
For the pain, suffering, and hurt of these Stolen Generations, their descendants and for their families left behind, we say sorry.
To the mothers and the fathers, the brothers and the sisters, for the breaking up of families and communities, we say sorry.
And for the indignity and degradation thus inflicted on a proud people and a proud culture, we say sorry.
We the Parliament of Australia respectfully request that this apology be received in the spirit in which it is offered as part of the healing of the nation.
For the future we take heart; resolving that this new page in the history of our great continent can now be written.
We today take this first step by acknowledging the past and laying claim to a future that embraces all Australians.
A future where this Parliament resolves that the injustices of the past must never, never happen again.
A future where we harness the determination of all Australians, Indigenous and non-Indigenous, to close the gap that lies between us in life expectancy, educational achievement, and economic opportunity.
A future where we embrace the possibility of new solutions to enduring problems where old approaches have failed.
A future based on mutual respect, mutual resolve and mutual responsibility.

A future where all Australians, whatever their origins, are truly equal partners, with equal opportunities and with an equal stake in shaping the next chapter in the history of this great country, Australia.

— Kevin Rudd, Prime Minister of Australia, 13 February 2008, at a sitting of the Parliament of Australia.

This is silly. Every single nation including Indian nations conquered others. Are we all going to start running around apologizing? Where does it end? How far back do we go? Who apologizes to who? And America HAS apologized to the Indians. So it's done. In fact we codified the apology. So people need to quit this whole whine.

 

[rjs330]

What part of the library is it at. Since they have different sections of the library. Grownup friendly, kid friendly or teen friendly. You talk about oral sex. Oral sex might be part of sex education. But that's in 8 or 9th grade. And sometimes too late. Hint that some teens were pregnant or had abortions by 8 grades. It's up to the parents to control what their kids watch. Books don't need to be ban. Unless it's full of lies, when it claims to be true. Kids are watching plenty of filth in their homes. And these aren't just liberal homes. I assure kids know about sex, and it's not from the library or school.

It was in the kids section. So your argument is that it's perfectly okay to allow kids access to oral sex depictions? It remains very telling that it's the left arguing for such stuff.

 

[Bradskii]

This is silly. Every single nation including Indian nations conquered others. Are we all going to start running around apologizing? Where does it end? How far back do we go? Who apologizes to who? And America HAS apologized to the Indians. So it's done. In fact we codified the apology. So people need to quit this whole whine.

That's kinda weird. You say that it's nonsensical to apologise and then make a point of saying we can stop all the whining now because you have apologised. You ask 'who cares?' I guess someone did.

'In this country, Congress has for years had similar legislation before it, but hasn't acted. Republican Senator Sam Brownback of Kansas is the sponsor of a resolution that finally passed the Senate in February; a House version is in the works. His resolution acknowledges a long history of official depredations and ill-conceived policies toward Indian tribes, and apologizes for violence, maltreatment and neglect.'

Apology to American Indians Moves Forward

A resolution making its way through Congress offers an apology to all Native peoples on behalf of the United States. It passed the Senate as an amendment to the Indian Health Care Improvement Act. The legislation comes after Australian and Canadian governments have both apologized to their...

www.npr.org

 

[Ligurian]

It was in the kids section. So your argument is that it's perfectly okay to allow kids access to oral sex depictions? It remains very telling that it's the left arguing for such stuff.

"Statutory rape laws assume that all sexual activities involving individuals below a certain age are coercive."--aspe.hhs.gov

"Sexual activity may also include conduct and activities which are intended to arouse the sexual interest of another or enhance the sex life of another, such as strategies to find or attract partners..."--wikipedia, human sexual activity

 

[Ligurian]

As for LGBTQ, that between them. Some of them have doctors. And that between them and their doctors. Not a bunch of people, that have no clue what they are talking about. Yes, schools teach about it about it. Parents have to sign for permission to have their kids to be taught about it, where I live.

So... kids are being taught about gay lifestyles... is that what you're saying?
If so, how old are the children being taught about gay lifesyles?
Are they being graded on what they're being taught in these classes?