Embracing New Covenant Theology as Your Only Means of Salvation

[JLB777]

Scripture presents that where?

No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18

The Old Testament saints were seeing God the Son, when He appeared to them, not God the Father.


To Moses He appeared to him in the burning bush as a the Angel of the Lord, who is God; the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob.


Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-6

Notice the three fold fullness of understanding being developed in the verses.

• The Son of God is the Angel of the Lord, the Lord, as well as God.

And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.’ ” Exodus 3:14

• The Angel of the Lord is God, the Son of God; the great I AM; the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob.

Do you believe the Angel of the Lord is God the Son, or God the Father?

Jesus plainly stated that He was the great I AM from the Old Testament.

Words of Christ in red:


Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”
Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:57-59





JLB

 

[BobRyan]

Since I did not see an actual quote of the New Covenant in your opening post - let's start there

Jer 31:
31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord: “I will put My law within them and write it on their heart; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their wrongdoing, and their sin I will no longer remember.”

This language is unchanged -- verbatim - in Heb 8.

It is a little bit surprising that on a thread title that specifically on the subject of the "New Covenant" we never see it quoted until a participant joins the thread in post #12.

If the New Covenant is what is of interest we should at least know what the Bible says it is -- using the Bible definition of it.

So then getting back to the words of the NEW Covenant where the Bible says "I will make a NEW Covenant.. THIS IS the Covenant I will make".

 

[JLB777]

Not vague in the scriptures.
Gal 4:22 For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman.
23 But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise.
24 Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants;

You can read about them in Genesis 15, and Genesis 17 as Galatians teaches, and Hebrews speaks of as wills of inheritance being distinct to each.

The law of Moses, the covenant at Sinai, symbolically typified by Hagar, was added to the Abrahamic Covenant temporarily until the Messiah came.

You would know this by reading Galatians 3, which precedes chapter 4, and establishes a foundation on which to understand chapter 4.


And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. Galatians 3:17

again


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19

You can read about them in Genesis 15, and Genesis 17

No, you will not find the law of Moses mentioned in Genesis 15 and 17.






JLB

 

[Jeffrey A]

Not unless you take Hebrews 8:6 out of the context of the entire book of Hebrews which is about Christ and his covenant being far superior to Moses and his covenant: Christ himself being superior to the angels, superior to Moses, and to the Aaronic priests; Christ's sacrificial work being superior to that of the OT High Priest; with a better covenant, a better sanctuary and a superior priestly order.

How can I be taking Hebrews 8:6 out context of the entire book of Hebrews when I agree with everything you just wrote here? We AGREE! The "Better Covenant" is Christ's covenant, and it is "far superior to Moses and his covenant," the "Law Covenant." We agree!

The "better" covenant is the "new covenant" of Christ ratified in his blood (Luke 22:20), which "new covenant" was prophesied in Jeremiah 31:31-34, verified in Hebrews 8:8-13, and thoroughly explained in Hebrews 1-10.

Yes, we agree that the "better" covenant is the "new covenant" of Christ inaugurated in his blood (it was ratified 430 years before the Law Covenant according to Paul at Galatians 3), the sign of which he instituted at Luke 22:20. Where we disagree is at Jeremiah 31. That Covenant replaces the Law Covenant, but only in the respect that God places the Law of Moses within the hearts of the House of Israel and Judah so that they never forsake the Law of Moses again, which he does at the time of the kingdom. That's what those words say and mean.

The reason the writer of the book of Hebrews cites Jeremiah 31 is to make a final point that the Law Covenant will be replaced, therefore it will be obsolete and is going away when that happens, so it is not the end-all-be-all Covenant. He is driving home the point he had been making, as you said, throughout Hebrews 1-10 that the "Better Covenant" is superior to the Law Covenant, by ending the argument by pointing out that the Law Covenant will even be replaced, and so is not superior to the better covenant.

But Paul made very clear in Galatians 3 that the "Better Covenant" is the same covenant God made with Abraham 430 years before the Law Covenant, not the same covenant of Jeremiah 31, which Jeremiah 31 covenant replaces the Law Covenant, but which replacement hasn't happened yet, but will happen at the parousia of the kingdom.

Do you agree or disagree that Paul at Galatians 3 is revealing a mystery that the better covenant in Christ is the same covenant God made with Abraham, that in his Seed all the nations shall be blessed?

 

[Lost Witness]

James 2:17

 

[BobRyan]

... the writer of the book of Hebrews cites Jeremiah 31 is to make a final point that the Law Covenant will be replaced, therefore it will be obsolete and is going away when that happens, so it is not the end-all-be-all Covenant.

Gal 1:6-9 only one Gospel in all of time - so only one Gospel covenant in all of time and that is the New Covenant - not the old one.
Rom 3:19-20 the Law of the Old Covenant continues to condemn all mankind as sinners and it is the covenant under which all are lost - so then all need the Gospel - all need the Heb 8:6-12 NEW Covenant which is verbatim the same as the Jer 31 New Covenant. unchanged.

 

[Clare73]

No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him. John 1:18

To declare is "to speak," it is not "to appear," and it refers to Jesus' preaching.

The Old Testament saints were seeing God the Son, when He appeared to them, not God the Father.

To Moses He appeared to him in the burning bush as a the Angel of the Lord, who is God; the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob.

Now Moses was tending the flock of Jethro his father-in-law, the priest of Midian. And he led the flock to the back of the desert, and came to Horeb, the mountain of God. And the Angel of the LORD appeared to him in a flame of fire from the midst of a bush. So he looked, and behold, the bush was burning with fire, but the bush was not consumed. Then Moses said, “I will now turn aside and see this great sight, why the bush does not burn.”
So when the LORD saw that he turned aside to look, God called to him from the midst of the bush and said, “Moses, Moses!”
And he said, “Here I am.”
Then He said, “Do not draw near this place. Take your sandals off your feet, for the place where you stand is holy ground.” Moreover He said, “I am the God of your father—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.” And Moses hid his face, for he was afraid to look upon God. Exodus 3:1-6
Notice the three fold fullness of understanding being developed in the verses.

• The Son of God is the Angel of the Lord, the Lord, as well as God.

And God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM.” And He said, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel, I AM has sent me to you.’ ” Exodus 3:14

• The Angel of the Lord is God, the Son of God; the great I AM; the God of Abraham, Issac and Jacob.

Do you believe the Angel of the Lord is God the Son, or God the Father?
Jesus plainly stated that He was the great I AM from the Old Testament.
Words of Christ in red:

Then the Jews said to Him, “You are not yet fifty years old, and have You seen Abraham?”

Jesus said to them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM.”
Then they took up stones to throw at Him; but Jesus hid Himself and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by. John 8:57-59

The Son of God, as well as the Holy Spirit, have all existed as long as the Father has.

None of the above Biblically demonsrates that the OT saints saw God the Son.
That is your conjecture only.

 

[ralliann]

The law of Moses, the covenant at Sinai, symbolically typified by Hagar, was added to the Abrahamic Covenant temporarily until the Messiah came.

You would know this by reading Galatians 3, which precedes chapter 4, and establishes a foundation on which to understand chapter 4.


And this I say, that the law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. Galatians 3:17

again


What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. Galatians 3:19




No, you will not find the law of Moses mentioned in Genesis 15 and 17.






JLB

No you won't find Moses law in Genesis. It was a covenant mediated by Moses 430 later.
Statutes and Judgements to keep and do...
Deut 5:1
1 And Moses called all Israel, and said unto them, Hear, O Israel, the statutes and judgments which I speak in your ears this day, that ye may learn them, and keep, and do them. {keep … : Heb. keep to do them }
2 The LORD our God made a covenant with us in Horeb.
3 The LORD made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day.
4 The LORD talked with you face to face in the mount out of the midst of the fire,

 

[Jeffrey A]

Gal 1:6-9 only one Gospel in all of time - so only one Gospel covenant in all of time and that is the New Covenant - not the old one.
Rom 3:19-20 the Law of the Old Covenant continues to condemn all mankind as sinners and it is the covenant under which all are lost - so then all need the Gospel - all need the Heb 8:6-12 NEW Covenant which is verbatim the same as the Jer 31 New Covenant. unchanged.

Yes, we agree, there is only one Gospel in all of time: "Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." Romans 10:13

That gospel was revealed by Paul in Galatians 3:8,17 to be the Covenant God made with Abraham that in his Seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed: "God... preached the gospel... to Abraham, saying, 'All the nations will be blessed in you.'... (as) a covenant... ratified by God..."

However, that New Covenant (which is not new at all but was the same covenant God ratified with Abraham) is NOT the same as the Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8:6-12 new covenant. Can't be. The parties are different (Abraham: "All the nations of the earth"; Jeremiah: "The House of Israel and Judah"). The promises are different: (Abraham: "Blessings come through the Seed"; Jeremiah: "Law of Moses put in their hearts so they never forsake them again."). The timing is different: (Abraham: "The Last Supper"; Jeremiah: "The Kingdom"). The sign inauguration is different: (Abraham: "This is My Blood of the Covenant"; Jeremiah: "...and the whole valley of the dead bodies... shall be holy to the Lord.")

The new Covenant of Hebrews 8:6-12 is indeed "verbatim" the same as the Jeremiah 31 new covenant. But it is NOT the same new covenant of Hebrews 9:15. THAT new covenant of Hebrews 9:15 is the same covenant as the Abraham Covenant of Genesis 12:3, Genesis 17:2-7, Isaiah 55:1-8, Luke 22:20 and Galatians 3:8-17. It is The Covenant of the Gospel that overarches the entire whole of Scripture.

Yet, there are seven distinct covenants of God in Scripture. And they are not all the same covenant. The named parties are different, the promises of each are different, the inaugurations are different, the signs are different, to whom they devolve is different, their timing is different, and their terms are different.

1) Flood, 2) Land, 3) Law, 4) Priest, 5) King, 6) New, 7) Better. Those are the seven named covenants. Made with 1) Noah, 2) Abram, 3) Moses, 4) Aaron, 5) David, 6) House of Israel, and 7) Abraham. Devolving to 1) all the nations, 2) descendants of Jacob only, 3) descendants of Jacob only, 4) Aaron's descendants and the Levites only, 5) King David and his one Promised Son only, 6) the House of Israel and Judah only, and 7) all the nations.

"All need the Gospel," as you say. Yes, we agree. And the covenant we all are able to claim under that gospel is the 7) Better Covenant that devolves to all the nations to bring them blessings through the Seed Heir God first ratified with Abraham. No one else's. It is good enough.

It is how we are "Embracing the New Covenant as Our Only Means of Salvation."

 

[Clare73]

How can I be taking Hebrews 8:6 out context of the entire book of Hebrews when I agree with everything you just wrote here? We AGREE! The "Better Covenant" is Christ's covenant, and it is "far superior to Moses and his covenant," the "Law Covenant." We agree!
Yes, we agree that the "better" covenant is the "new covenant" of Christ inaugurated in his blood (it was ratified 430 years before the Law Covenant according to Paul at Galatians 3), the sign of which he instituted at Luke 22:20.

It is nowhere presented in Gal 3 that the New Covenant of Heb 8 was ratified 430 years earlier, before the Mosaic Covenant.

Where we disagree is at Jeremiah 31. That Covenant replaces the Law Covenant, but only in the respect that God places the Law of Moses within the hearts of the House of Israel and Judah so that they never forsake the Law of Moses again, which he does at the time of the kingdom. That's what those words say and mean.

We are in the eternal kingdom of God (Lk 1:33; Heb 1:8) now (Lk 11:20) where Jer 31:31-34 is fulfilled in the New Covenant now.

The reason the writer of the book of Hebrews cites Jeremiah 31 is to make a final point that the Law Covenant will be replaced, therefore it will be obsolete and is going away when that happens, so it is not the end-all-be-all Covenant. He is driving home the point he had been making, as you said, throughout Hebrews 1-10 that the "Better Covenant" is superior to the Law Covenant, by ending the argument by pointing out that the Law Covenant will even be replaced, and so is not superior to the better covenant.
But Paul made very clear in Galatians 3 that the "Better Covenant" is the same covenant God made with Abraham 430 years before the Law Covenant,

Not quite. . .in the context of the whole book of Hebrews on the superiority of Christ and the superiority of Christ's sacrificial work, the "Better Covenant" is the New Covenant of Lk 22:20, 1Co 11:25.
The covenant "made with Abraham 430 years before the Law" is the covenant in force at that time; i.e., the Abrahamic covenant of some 1700 years prior, and which was not set aside by the Mosaic law covenant, which was temporarily added to it (Gal 3:19).

not the same covenant of Jeremiah 31, which Jeremiah 31 covenant replaces the Law Covenant, but which replacement hasn't happened yet, but will happen at the parousia of the kingdom.

Do you agree or disagree that Paul at Galatians 3 is revealing a mystery that the better covenant in Christ is the same covenant God made with Abraham, that in his Seed all the nations shall be blessed?

DIsagree. . .the "Better Covenant" of Hebrews is the New Covenant of Lk 22:20; 1Co 11:25.

The New Covenant is not the same covenant God made with Abraham.
Abraham was promised that through him all the nations would be blessed, which was a promise of the birth of Christ.

All the promises were made to Christ alone. (Gal 3:16)

Christ was promised seed (the church, Ge 15:5) and an everlasting possession (Ge 17:8, 48:4, the New Jerusalem, Rev 21:9-11, his bride).

 

[Jeffrey A]

It is nowhere presented in Gal 3 that the New Covenant of Heb 8 was ratified 430 years earlier, before the Mosaic Covenant.

Here is the new covenant of Hebrews 8:6 -- "Now (Christ).. is... the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises [than those of the Law and Priest Covenants, as recited in Hebrews 8:1-5]."

And here is the covenant Paul mentions at Galatians 3:8-18 that was ratified 430 years before the Mosaic Covenant -- "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us... in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles... Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed... referring... to one,... that is, Christ. What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise."

Paul is quoting the promise of Genesis 22:16,18 there in Galatians 3: "'By myself I have sworn,... In your seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed...'" That was a repeat of the promise of Genesis 17:2-7 when God established that promise as a covenant: "'I will establish My covenant between Me and you... You will be the father of a multitude of nations... I will establish My covenant between Me and your descendants after you... for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and to your descendants after you.'" That was a repeat of the promise first made at Genesis 12:3 -- "'I will bless those who bless you, and the one who curses you I will curse, and in you all the families of the earth will be blessed.'"

Now, either you are saying there is more than one "better covenant" in Christ, or you are saying Paul was wrong when he said the covenant under which Christ redeemed us was ratified 430 years before the Mosaic Covenant. Which is it?

We are in the eternal kingdom of God (Lk 1:33; Heb 1:8) now (Lk 11:20) where Jer 31:31-34 is fulfilled in the New Covenant now.

Spiritually, an application may be made to us now, perhaps. But you certainly do not want to deny the prophesy of the restoration of Israel to its former glory, do you? "Again you will plant vineyards on the hills of Samaria," Jeremiah 31:5. Why would you want to usurp Israel's covenant for yourself? Are you a member of "the House of Israel and Judah"? Is not the Better Covenant in/through Christ first ratified by God with Abraham promising that blessing shall come to the Gentiles through his Seed Heir Christ good enough for you?

. . .in the context of the whole book of Hebrews on the superiority of Christ and the superiority of Christ's sacrificial work, the "Better Covenant" is the New Covenant of Lk 22:20, 1Co 11:25.

Yes, exactly. I would quote those very same passages to cite the New Covenant of blessing come through Christ's blood. But it is NOT the same new covenant of Jeremiah 31. How could it be? The one is a promise of blessing that shall come "to the Gentiles" while the other is a promise that the Law of Moses would be placed into the hearts of the House of Israel and Judah at the time of the kingdom of God on earth so they never forsake the Law again. Two different people groups, two different promises, two different timings. Two different covenants. Obviously.

The covenant "made with Abraham 430 years before the Law" is the covenant in force at that time; i.e., the Abrahamic covenant of some 1700 years prior, and which was not set aside by the Mosaic law covenant, which was temporarily added to it (Gal 3:19).

Certainly the covenant God made with Abraham that all the nations would be blessed through his Seed Heir was in force at that time, and for all time, yes. It is the everlasting and eternal covenant devolving to all the nations. It is the overarching covenant of redemption through Christ.

And yes, for the children of Israel, the Mosaic Covenant was added as an additional one for them, and them alone, until the New Covenant of Jeremiah 31 replaces it for them, and them alone, at the time of the restoration of the kingdom of Israel on earth, when Christ returns to be the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and "'they will come and shout for joy on the height of Zion,... and they will never languish again... I have surely heard Ephraim grieving... Return, O virgin of Israel, return to these your cities... Once again I will speak this word in the land of Judah and in its cities when I restore their fortunes... Judah and all its cities will dwell together in it... Behold, days are coming... when I will sow the house of Israel and the house of Judah with the seed of man and with the seed of beast. As I have watched over them to... destroy and to bring disaster, so I will watch over them to build and to plant... Behold, days are coming... when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah... (to) put My law within them and on their heart I will write it... For I will forgive their iniquity, and their sin I will remember no more.'"

DIsagree. . .the "Better Covenant" of Hebrews is the New Covenant of Lk 22:20; 1Co 11:25.

No, we do not disagree here. We are in complete agreement here.

The New Covenant is not the same covenant God made with Abraham. Abraham was promised that through him all the nations would be blessed, which was a promise of the birth of Christ.

I think you just contradicted yourself here.

All the promises were made to Christ alone. (Gal 3:16)

That's not what Galatians 3:16 says, but I would find a way to agree with you here, that all the promises of the seven covenants are fulfilled in and by Christ, in that, since he created the earth he certainly controls whether it is flooded again, he restores Israel to the Land during the kingdom, he places the Law of Moses in the hearts of Israel, he is the High Priest in the restored Temple over watching the Priests who serve forever, he is the promised Son who will sit on David's throne ruling the nations of earth, on earth, and he is the One Promised Seed Heir of Abraham who blesses all the nations on earth for those who are of the faith of Abraham so as to be called the sons of Abraham by faith (Romans 4:13-18).

Christ was promised seed (the church, Ge 15:5) and an everlasting possession (Ge 17:8, 48:4, the New Jerusalem, Rev 21:9-11, his bride).

Christ took a Bride, the Church, yes, just as His Father took a Wife, Israel (Ezekiel 16). Israel is our Mother-in-Law: "Israelites (are) to whom belongs the adoption as sons, and the glory and the covenants and the giving of the Law and the temple service and the promises, whose are the fathers, and from whom is the Christ according to the flesh, who is over all, God blessed forever. Amen." Romans 9:4,5

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, we agree, there is only one Gospel in all of time: "Whoever will call on the name of the Lord will be saved." Romans 10:13

That gospel was revealed by Paul in Galatians 3:8,17 to be the Covenant God made with Abraham that in his Seed all the nations of the earth shall be blessed: "God... preached the gospel... to Abraham, saying, 'All the nations will be blessed in you.'... (as) a covenant... ratified by God..."

And specifically in the language "THIS IS the covenant I will make... I will write My Law on their heart" Heb 8:10 Jer 31:33

31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord: “I will put My law within them and write it on their heart; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their wrongdoing, and their sin I will no longer remember.” Jer 31:31-34 Heb 8.

We see in that covenant ;
1. the new heart, new birth, new creation
2 forgiveness of sins
3. adoption

There is not one other covenant in all of scripture that competes with it.

However, that New Covenant (which is not new at all but was the same covenant God ratified with Abraham) is NOT the same as the Jeremiah 31 and Hebrews 8:6-12 new covenant.

Well there is only one New Covenant - it is the Gospel covenant. Just as there is only one Gospel and "the Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8.. Which is the one and only Gospel known to Paul and his readers in Galatians 1 and 3.

What is more as Christ said in John 8 "Abraham saw MY day and was glad".

Can't be. The parties are different (Abraham: "All the nations of the earth"; Jeremiah: "The House of Israel and Judah").

Can be the same -

John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD that He gave"
1 John 4:14 "God sent His Son to be the savior of the WORLD"
2 Peter 3 "God is not willing that ANY should perish"

The WORLD is blessed in having that savior who "is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2

The WORLD is under the old covenant - and condemned to the lake of fire (Hell) for all have sinned. All have broken the law of the old covenant.

Rom 3:19-20
19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law none of mankind will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes knowledge of sin.

Only those who accept the Gospel and are born again - are under the NEW Covenant

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from people, but from God

The new Covenant of Hebrews 8:6-12 is indeed "verbatim" the same as the Jeremiah 31 new covenant.

Amen!

It is the one and only gospel covenant of the one and only Gospel "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8

, there are seven distinct covenants of God in Scripture. And they are not all the same covenant. The named parties are different, the promises of each are different, the inaugurations are different, the signs are different, to whom they devolve is different, their timing is different, and their terms are different.

1) Flood, 2) Land, 3) Law, 4) Priest, 5) King, 6) New, 7) Better. Those are the seven named covenants. Made with 1) Noah, 2) Abram, 3) Moses, 4) Aaron, 5) David, 6) House of Israel, and 7) Abraham. Devolving to 1) all the nations, 2) descendants of Jacob only, 3) descendants of Jacob only, 4) Aaron's descendants and the Levites only, 5) King David and his one Promised Son only, 6) the House of Israel and Judah only, and 7) all the nations.

But there are not seven Gospels.

In Matt 17 Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in glory under the ONE Gospel preached to the OT saints and the NT saints alike!

Heb 4:1 "The Gospel was preached to US just as it was to THEM also"

1 Peter 1:10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.

 

[BobRyan]

It is nowhere presented in Gal 3 that the New Covenant of Heb 8 was ratified 430 years earlier, before the Mosaic Covenant.

The New Covenant was ratified on the cross with the blood of Christ but it is the one and only Gospel covenant preached "To us just as it was to them also" Heb 4:2 and is the means by which Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in glory in Matt 17 -- fully saved, fully forgiven

 

[BobRyan]

Here is the new covenant of Hebrews 8:6 -- "Now (Christ).. is... the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises [than those of the Law and Priest Covenants, as recited in Hebrews 8:1-5]."

And here is the covenant Paul mentions at Galatians 3:8-18 that was ratified 430 years before the Mosaic Covenant -- "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us... in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles... Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed... referring... to one,... that is, Christ. What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise."

There is exactly one Covenant in scripture that identifies itself as "The New Covenant" and that is the one in Jer 31:31-34 and in Heb 8. No other covenant does that. Heb 8 also calls it "the better covenant" and then quotes Jer 31. Gal 3:8 gives us more information about that one and only Gospel covenant - the new covenant.

 

[Jeffrey A]

[you quoted Jeremiah 31:31-34 and as recited at Hebrews 8]
We see in that covenant ; 1. the new heart, new birth, new creation 2 forgiveness of sins 3. adoption

There is not one other covenant in all of scripture that competes with it.

Sure there is: the new covenant in Jesus' Blood. But it is not a competition. Just because God promises to do all that through one covenant, doesn't mean he can't do it for the other. But here is the distinction:

The new covenant of Jeremiah 31 is made by God with "the House of Israel and the House of Judah."

The new covenant of Jesus' Blood is made by God with "all the world."

That they promise similar things, does not make them the same covenant. The named parties are distinctly different. If you sign a contract with XYZ Power Company to fix your electrical problems, you don't get mad if ABC Electrical Company doesn't come over and fix your electrical problems, do you? They are two different companies. "All the nations" includes everybody. "The House of Israel and Judah" only includes the flesh descendants of Jacob and excludes everybody else.

Well there is only one New Covenant - it is the Gospel covenant. Just as there is only one Gospel and "the Gospel was preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8.. Which is the one and only Gospel known to Paul and his readers in Galatians 1 and 3.

There are two covenants called "new." The one described at Jeremiah 31 and recited at Hebrews 8, that is only between God and the House of Israel, and the one at Luke 22:20, 1 Corinthians 11:25 and Hebrews 8:6, that is between God and the whole world, and yes, revealed by Paul at Galatians 3:8-17 to be the exact same covenant God made with Abraham that he would be the father of a multitude of nations.

What is more as Christ said in John 8 "Abraham saw MY day and was glad".

Yes, certainly, for God is the God of the living, not the dead.

Can be the same -
John 3:16 "God so loved the WORLD that He gave"
1 John 4:14 "God sent His Son to be the savior of the WORLD"
2 Peter 3 "God is not willing that ANY should perish"

The WORLD is blessed in having that savior who "is the atoning sacrifice for OUR sins and not for OUR sins only but for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD" 1 John 2:2

Now you make my point for me. The New Covenant in Jesus' Blood is made between God and the whole world. Very good. We agree. Unity!

The WORLD is under the old covenant - and condemned to the lake of fire (Hell) for all have sinned. All have broken the law of the old covenant.

While it is true that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God, Paul said only the Jews are under the Law Covenant: "Gentiles... do not have the Law..." Romans 2:14. Gentiles fall under the law of moral conscience, not the Law of Moses.

Rom 3:19-20 19 Now we know that whatever the Law says, it speaks to those who are under the Law, so that every mouth may be closed and all the world may become accountable to God; 20 because by the works of the Law none of mankind will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes knowledge of sin.

Yes, the Law "speaks (only) to those who are under the Law." That is the Jews. Gentiles are not under the Law of Moses. They have a law "unto themselves." But it is true that no one under the Law of Moses is justified by the works of the Law, and that everyone is under sin. That is all true.

Only those who accept the Gospel and are born again - are under the NEW Covenant

True. But that is the New Covenant in Jesus' Blood of Luke 22:20, not the new covenant of Jeremiah 31.

Rom 2:28 For he is not a Jew who is one outwardly, nor is circumcision that which is outward in the flesh. 29 But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from people, but from God

Sure, true Jews are those Jews who are right with God in their hearts, not just Jews who are going through the motions. Or, are you claiming Gentiles can claim to be a Jew?

It is the one and only gospel covenant of the one and only Gospel "preached to Abraham" Gal 3:8

In this we agree. But that is not the covenant of Jeremiah 31.

But there are not seven Gospels.

Never said there were.

In Matt 17 Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in glory under the ONE Gospel preached to the OT saints and the NT saints alike!

Heb 4:1 "The Gospel was preached to US just as it was to THEM also"

1 Peter 1:10 As to this salvation, the prophets who prophesied of the grace that would come to you made careful searches and inquiries, 11 seeking to know what person or time the Spirit of Christ within them was indicating as He predicted the sufferings of Christ and the glories to follow.

Sure, sure. We don't disagree about the gospel.

 

[Clare73]

Here is the new covenant of Hebrews 8:6 -- "Now (Christ).. is... the mediator of a better covenant, which has been enacted on better promises [than those of the Law and Priest Covenants, as recited in Hebrews 8:1-5]."

That refers to the Mosaic covenant and Aaronic priesthood.

And here is the covenant Paul mentions at Galatians 3:8-18 that was ratified 430 years before the Mosaic Covenant -- "Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us... in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles... Now the promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed... referring... to one,... that is, Christ. What I am saying is this: the Law, which came four hundred and thirty years later, does not invalidate a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to nullify the promise."

Gal 3 is about justification by law keeping vs. justification by faith, where Paul uses the covenants of Genesis 15 and Exodus 24 to illustrate that justification is by faith, not by law-keeping.

Paul compares the two sojourns in Canaan, the one before the famine and the one 430 years later after the famine (and slavery)--the first sojourn governed by the Abrahamic covenant of grace (faith) of Genesis 15, and the second sojourn governed by the temporary addition (Gal 3:19) of the Mosaic covenant of law (Exodus 24) to the Abrahamic covenant of grace (faith).
And Paul is stating that the Abrahamic covenant of promise was not nullified by the temporary addition of a covenant of law,
for the everlasting inheritance (Ge 17:8, 48:4) is by promise, not by law-keeping.

Paul is demonstrating in Gal 3 that the everlasting inheritance (righteousness) is not by law-keeping, but by (belief in) the promise (seed, Ge 15:5; i.e., Jesus Christ, Gal 3:16.All the promises were made to Christ alone. (Gal 3:16)Jeffrey A. That's not wht Gal 3:16 says

All the promises were made to Christ alone. (Gal 3:16)
Jeffrey A:
That's not what Galatians 3:16 says,

That is precisely what Gal 3:16 states:
"Now the promises were made to Abraham and his seed (offspring). . .not. . .referring to many, but referring to one. . .which is Christ."

 

[BobRyan]

Jer 31:

31 “Behold, days are coming,” declares the Lord, “when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and the house of Judah, 32 not like the covenant which I made with their fathers on the day I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt, My covenant which they broke, although I was a husband to them,” declares the Lord. 33 “For this is the covenant which I will make with the house of Israel after those days,” declares the Lord: “I will put My law within them and write it on their heart; and I will be their God, and they shall be My people. 34 They will not teach again, each one his neighbor and each one his brother, saying, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they will all know Me, from the least of them to the greatest of them,” declares the Lord, “for I will forgive their wrongdoing, and their sin I will no longer remember.” Jer 31:31-34 Heb 8.

We see in that covenant ;
1. the new heart, new birth, new creation
2 forgiveness of sins
3. adoption

There is not one other covenant in all of scripture that competes with it.

Sure there is: the new covenant in Jesus' Blood. But it is not a competition.

If you splice them up into bits - then the 'New Covenant in my blood" stands alone and is excluded from the "New Covenant" as scripture records it in both Jer 31 and Hebrews 8. IN that case your "other" New Covenant and has no forgiveness of sins, no new birth, no new creation, no new heart, no adoption. It is just 'the New Covenant in my blood". period.

But if you allow it to stand in context where it is adding more detail the explicitly stated "New Covenant" of Jer 31:31-34 (which is the context Jesus' hearers would have had for that term at the time He spoke it) - then it is shedding more light on the one-and-only New Covenant. Which would look a lot like "another gospel".

 

[Clare73]

The New Covenant was ratified on the cross with the blood of Christ but it is the one and only Gospel covenant preached "To us just as it was to them also" Heb 4:2 and is the means by which Moses and Elijah stand with Christ in glory in Matt 17 -- fully saved, fully forgiven

Heb 3:7-4:11 is about the gospel (rest, inheritance) preached to those who refused (Numbers 14) to go into Canaan, their rest (inheritance, Dt 12:9-10, 25:19) from their enemies, and who all died in the wilderness in judgment.
The newly-professing Hebrew Christians likewise had preached to them the same gospel of rest in Jesus Christ, from their own works to save, and in his work which saves, and which the writer of Hebrews is urging those newly-professing Hebrew Christians not to fail to go into by returning to Judaism, which it seems they were considering.

It's not about Moses and Elijah, it's about apostasy from the NT gospel by these newly-professing Hebrew Christians (see Hebrews 6:4-6).

 

[JLB777]

To declare is "to speak," it is not "to appear," and it refers to Jesus' preaching.

No one has seen God (the Father) at any time (the time written in John).

Jesus has declared the Father; as He said “if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father”.


The Point:

When the Lord appeared to those Old Testament saints, it was God the Son, Jesus Christ, before He became flesh, not God the Father.




JLB

 

[JLB777]

The Son of God, as well as the Holy Spirit, have all existed as long as the Father has.

Agreed.