The A & P

[public hermit]

The bit about popcorn is pretty funny. - LOL
Not sure how entertaining this will be, but... here goes.

I haven't looked into this thoroughly, some of my pals might have a better read on this. @MMXX @Hmm @Lazarus Short @public hermit @FineLinen --- I invite them to chime in as led.

Two possibilities that I see:
1) Refers to consequences in this lifetime, not the afterlife. (my best guess)
2) This is addressed to Israel in their time period. (whatever that means)

These are my thoughts: I hold that all notions of divine destruction concern the destruction of that which is contrary to the divine will. The narrow way is the way of self-denial and love. The wide way is the way self-centerdness and inordinate self-love. Our real self is to live into the image we bear, denying the false self that asserts itself as superior to the divine will. That false self (Paul's old man) will be destroyed.

God will destroy all that is not of God and all that is contrary to the divine intention (sin and evil). God will not destroy the image God creates, but few truly deny themselves and live into the image, thus avoiding the destruction of the illusory self in the age to come. If we deny self and take up our cross, the false self is already dead- dead to sin; alive to God.

That's a rough take. Even I have questions, but the idea that God destroys the vast amount of those created in the image would be a much harder notion for me to accept as fitting for God.

 

[FineLinen]

Are you suggesting that only Christians of one particular theology have received the Holy Spirit? According to what you’ve said here that appears to be the case.

Theology is not the avenue by which our Father manifests the glory of Himself. It flows out of union & communion.

Aionios zoe = That we may know You.

 

[FineLinen]

Ok so how do you interpret this verse to coincide with Universalism?

““Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

(eats popcorn eagerly awaiting the reply)

BNR you are likely unaware the entire covenants of Scripture are one unified expression of Divinity.

The gate is indeed constricted! The natural man cannot enter, but requires transformation by His power.

 

[Servus]

Ok so how do you interpret this verse to coincide with Universalism?

““Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭13‬-‭14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

(eats popcorn eagerly awaiting the reply)

That's easy. From a UR perspective it means not many get it right the first time around.

The thing to keep in mind with the evangelical Christian version of UR, is there's still consequences and punishment. But the view on that is it's from a loving caring parent to his child.

Right before Matthew 7:13-14, Jesus is using the analogy of a little loving caring parent to describe the Father.

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!" Matthew 7:11.

 

[Servus]

BNR you are unlikely unaware the entire covenants of Scripture are one unified expression of Divinity.

The gate is indeed constricted! The natural man cannot enter, but requires transformation by His power.

I'd say that compares to:

24 And again I say to you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.”

25 When His disciples heard it, they were greatly astonished, saying, “Who then can be saved?”

26 But Jesus looked at them and said to them, “With men this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” Matthew 19:24-26

 

[Servus]

Theology is not the avenue by which our Father manifests the glory of Himself. It flows out of union & communion.

Aionios zoe = That we may know You.

 

[FineLinen]

These are my thoughts: I hold that all notions of divine destruction concern the destruction of that which is contrary to the divine will. The narrow way is the way of self-denial and love. The wide way is the way self-centerdness and inordinate self-love. Our real self is to live into the image we bear, denying the false self that asserts itself as superior to the divine will. That false self (Paul's old man) will be destroyed.

God will destroy all that is not of God and all that is contrary to the divine intention (sin and evil). God will not destroy the image God creates, but few truly deny themselves and live into the image, thus avoiding the destruction of the illusory self in the age to come. If we deny self and take up our cross, the false self is already dead- dead to sin; alive to God.

That's a rough take. Even I have questions, but the idea that God destroys the vast amount of those created in the image would be a much harder notion for me to accept as fitting for God.

Dear Hermit, this is a remarkable post that is a keeper.

I also cannot imagine the One who is the beginning & ending, not accomplishing His purpose of reconciliation in complete satisfaction to himself.

I will do all My will.

 

[FineLinen]

Divine Purification

"Before the great white throne, that vast throng, their naked spirits conscious now of the blazing holiness of God, will be subjected to the process of the second death.

What those processes are, their intensity and their duration, we are not told. They will suffice, however, not in themselves to perfect, but to bring those who suffer them to that agreement with the judgment upon sin which they effect, and through the cross finally to reconcile them to God (Col. 1:20), in a subjection where He will be all in all.

When that acquiescence in judgment upon sin is reached, and applied in soul and spirit, then will be possible the final victory over death. Hence it is written that when this subjection is reached, then and only then, the last enemy, death, shall be destroyed. ~A. E. Saxby

The Lake Of Fire & Divinity =

Brimstone= theion

Divine incense (burning brimstone was regarded as having power to purify, and to ward off disease.)

Root of theion= Theos

Theion = the breath of Jehovah the Lake of Divine Fire.

 

[BNR32FAN]

These are my thoughts: I hold that all notions of divine destruction concern the destruction of that which is contrary to the divine will. The narrow way is the way of self-denial and love. The wide way is the way self-centerdness and inordinate self-love. Our real self is to live into the image we bear, denying the false self that asserts itself as superior to the divine will. That false self (Paul's old man) will be destroyed.

God will destroy all that is not of God and all that is contrary to the divine intention (sin and evil). God will not destroy the image God creates, but few truly deny themselves and live into the image, thus avoiding the destruction of the illusory self in the age to come. If we deny self and take up our cross, the false self is already dead- dead to sin; alive to God.

That's a rough take. Even I have questions, but the idea that God destroys the vast amount of those created in the image would be a much harder notion for me to accept as fitting for God.

So you saying that the wide path doesn’t lead to destruction of the individual but instead to the destruction of our self-centeredness. But the narrow path leads to life. So your saying that both paths lead to the same place or outcome. “Surely you will not die”.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Theology is not the avenue by which our Father manifests the glory of Himself. It flows out of union & communion.

Aionios zoe = That we may know You.

Ahh so throw away theology and “surely you will not die”.

 

[BNR32FAN]

BNR you are likely unaware the entire covenants of Scripture are one unified expression of Divinity.

The gate is indeed constricted! The natural man cannot enter, but requires transformation by His power.

So the wide gate leads to transformation not destruction. “Surely you will not die”.

 

[BNR32FAN]

That's easy. From a UR perspective it means not many get it right the first time around.

The thing to keep in mind with the evangelical Christian version of UR, is there's still consequences and punishment. But the view on that is it's from a loving caring parent to his child.

Right before Matthew 7:13-14, Jesus is using the analogy of a little loving caring parent to describe the Father.

"If you then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!" Matthew 7:11.

Yes He gives what is good to those that ask. But let’s not forget what He said right before that analogy.

““Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Jesus didn’t say anything about giving to those who don’t ask and who don’t knock.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Divine Purification

"Before the great white throne, that vast throng, their naked spirits conscious now of the blazing holiness of God, will be subjected to the process of the second death.

What those processes are, their intensity and their duration, we are not told. They will suffice, however, not in themselves to perfect, but to bring those who suffer them to that agreement with the judgment upon sin which they effect, and through the cross finally to reconcile them to God (Col. 1:20), in a subjection where He will be all in all.

When that acquiescence in judgment upon sin is reached, and applied in soul and spirit, then will be possible the final victory over death. Hence it is written that when this subjection is reached, then and only then, the last enemy, death, shall be destroyed. ~A. E. Saxby

The Lake Of Fire & Divinity =

Brimstone= theion

Divine incense (burning brimstone was regarded as having power to purify, and to ward off disease.)

Root of theion= Theos

Theion = the breath of Jehovah the Lake of Divine Fire.

Lol so what your saying is that when people are thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone then the possibility of victory over death occurs because they will be purified? But the scriptures say that is when the second death occurs not victory over death. “Surely you will not die”.

 

[public hermit]

So you saying that the wide path doesn’t lead to destruction of the individual but instead to the destruction of our self-centeredness. But the narrow path leads to life. So your saying that both paths lead to the same place or outcome. “Surely you will not die”.

It leads to the destruction of the false self.

 

[FineLinen]

Lol so what your saying is that when people are thrown into the lake of fire and brimstone then the possibility of victory over death occurs because they will be purified? But the scriptures say that is when the second death occurs not victory over death. “Surely you will not die”.

The Lake of Theos is our God. He is the One who opens prison doors with the keys He holds firmly within His grasp. He not only holds the keys, He knows how to turn them!

He holds the keys of death & hell.

 

[BNR32FAN]

The Lake of Theos is our God. He is the One who opens prison doors with the keys He holds firmly within His grasp. He not only holds the keys, He knows how to turn them!

He holds the keys of death & hell.

Where do you get the term “lake of Theos” from? What verse is that?

 

[FineLinen]

Where do you get the term “lake of Theos” from? What verse is that?

You are simply not paying attention!

The foundation for the Lake is Theos, the identical Theos who is our God. Both theion and theiou are the foundation of the Lake of Theos!

 

[BNR32FAN]

You are simply not paying attention!

The foundation for the Lake is Theos, the identical Theos who is our God. Both theion and theiou are the foundation of the Lake of Theos!

Where are you getting this idea from?

 

[Servus]

Yes He gives what is good to those that ask. But let’s not forget what He said right before that analogy.

““Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, or they will trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you to pieces.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭7‬:‭6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Jesus didn’t say anything about giving to those who don’t ask and who don’t knock.

From the UR perspective, the part about if evil fathers so benevolence to their children, how much more so your Father in heaven?, is the focus.

 

[Servus]

Where are you getting this idea from?

Seems very self explanatory to me. See post #448