Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian [moved thread]

[Leaf473]

He says He rested on the 7th day -- I believe Him.

2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Ex 20:8-11
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 For six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the Lord your God; on it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male slave or your female slave, or your cattle, or your resident who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

=============

some people will argue that not believing God -- honors Him way more than believing Him. Ok so then I would differ with them on that idea.

The issue isn't believing whether God rested or not. It's believing that he rested for a literal 24-hour day.

Genesis 1
God said, “Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs to mark seasons, days, and years; 15 and let them be for lights in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth;” and it was so. 16 God made the two great lights: the greater light to rule the day, and the lesser light to rule the night. He also made the stars. 17 God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light to the earth, 18 and to rule over the day and over the night, and to divide the light from the darkness. God saw that it was good. 19 There was evening and there was morning, a fourth day.

Peace be with you!

 

[Leaf473]

That is a huge amount of inference and speculation to get to that point. You have free will of course - and can do that as often as you wish but the Bible scholars in almost all major denominations on planet Earth do not choose to go down that road when it comes to not doing any work. The idea that work in the garden is not work if you enjoy it - is a creative bend you suggest for the text but is not actually in it.

Moses assembled the whole Israelite community and said to them, “These are the things the Lord has commanded you to do: 2 For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a day of sabbath rest to the Lord. Whoever does any work on it is to be put to death. 3 Do not light a fire in any of your dwellings on the Sabbath day.”
Bible Gateway passage: Exodus 35 - New International Version

I've heard people who endorse the idea of no work on the Sabbath say it's okay to light your stove - kindle a fire - as long as it's easy to do.

 

[Cornelius8L]

The sacrificial laws which include the daily sacrifices for the forgiveness of sin ended at the cross all point to Jesus who because our Sacrificial Lamb. Yes, they sacrificed lambs on the Sabbath and they had daily sacrifices because there was sin daily, but at the cross, Jesus became our sacrifice for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we confess our sins and have a changed heart and turn from sin, so we no longer sacrifice animals because Jesus became our sacrifice.

Sabbath day sacrifices are in addition to the regular sacrifices according to the scripture (Numbers 28:1-10). It is quite clear that it says, “in addition (עַל־ (‘al-)).” Anyway, We agree all sacrifices ended at the cross (Colossians 2:14).

There are no blood sacrifices in the Sabbath commandment Exodus 20:8-11. The Sabbath is part of God's eternal Ten Commandments Exodus 34:28 which is what reveal sin when broken 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7 and the Sabbath started from Creation Genesis 2:1-3 when there was no sin therefore no need for animal sacrifices for the forgiveness of sin.

I think we are discussing if Colossians 2:16 refers to the weekly Sabbath. It is irrelevant to bring up this part at this point.

The apostles kept the Sabbath day decades after Jesus ascended back to heaven because they were commanded to observe everything Jesus commanded of them. Their example of observing the Sabbath was through prayer, preaching and teaching the Word of God, reasoning with the scriptures which they did every Sabbath and preached to Jew Gentiles and whole cities. There is no scripture in the entire bible that says the Sabbath commandment changed or ended, but instead God's saints keep the commandments of God and faith in Jesus. John 14:12 The saints will continue to worship the Lord on the Sabbath in the New Heaven and New Earth Isaiah 66:23.

Did Jesus command them to do that in the scripture for keeping the Sabbath? Please share where Jesus commanded them. Please skip those human ideas of examples that are not His command.

Change in scripture? There are, but some twisted them.

Jesus taught the Sabbath was made for man (humans) Mark 2:27 and He kept His Fathers commanemnts John 15:10 Jesus taught to keep the commandments of God over man's traditions Matthew 15:3-9 and Jesus taught not to break the least of the commandments Matthew 5:19 and taught If you love Me keep My commandments John 14:15 which is what God taught Exodus 20:6 becuase Jesus came to do the will of the Father. We are told to follow the example of Jesus 1 John 2:6 who kept the Sabbath and all of the commandments Luke 4:16.

As you quoted Exodus, you should know that Sabbath was a sign between Israelites and God in Exodus 31:17 and Ezekiel 20:20, not all nations. Accepting Mark 2:27 refers to every man is as good as accepting the change in the Sabbath commandment. And traditions refer to those not commanded by God but added practices. The example Jesus did was carrying the cross and not going to the temple since many recorded occasions do not support this teaching.

 

[Cornelius8L]

Hi Cornelius -

Ok so then from 1368


Gen 2:
2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Ex 20:8-11
8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 For six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the Lord your God; on it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male slave or your female slave, or your cattle, or your resident who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.


Apparently you are mistaken given the content of the text as we read it in Ex 20 and Gen 2

Ex 20
11 "For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy."

Gen 2:
2 By the seventh day God completed His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. 3 Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because on it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

It does not say "therefore you should rest".

Hi BobRyan,

I think I was talking about “therefore remember the Sabbath day,” not “remember the Sabbath day and the six days of creation (which is adding to the words of God).”

He sanctified it because He rested.

Remember the Sabbath is a direct command from God - not a man made tradition.
In EX 16 "tomorrow IS the Sabbath"
Ex 20 says to remember, to keep it holy, to rest.
Lev 23:2-3 makes it a command to worship and rest on that day.
Is 66:23 says all mankind will be doing that for all eternity after the cross in the new heavens and new earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

That is a command - not merely a man made tradition.

You cannot have 7th day without also having the first 6 days.

As you quoted Exodus, you should know Sabbath was a sign between Israelites and God in Exodus 31:17 and Ezekiel 20:20. Isaiah prophesied the future, which is the NT Sabbath. Again, we were talking about no instruction asking us to remember the creation days – this is adding teaching.

Luke 4 is not deleting any commandment as Christ points out in Matt 5 - His work was not one of deleting or abolishing commandments.

Luke 4 says that it was His custom - to stand up and read - on the Sabbath. There is no command that all must stand up and read - on the Sabbath.

Where is the commandment of going to the church? Please share.

Heb 9 is not talking about the end of the old covenant. It is talking about the ratifying of the new covenant.

3 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled, sanctify for the cleansing of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without blemish to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the violations that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16 For where there is a covenant, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it.

Please share when the new covenant begins, before or after the resurrection of Jesus by the Spirit (Romans 8:11).

No Bible text says week-day-1 is the Lord's Day - but it does tell us that Sabbath "is the Holy Day of the LORD" and it tells us that Jesus is "Lord of the Sabbath". So the "sola scriptura" definition for Lord's Day - is the Sabbath.

So your definition of Lord’s Day is different from Icy? Anyway, I was referencing Icy’s definition.

That is a huge amount of inference and speculation to get to that point. You have free will of course - and can do that as often as you wish but the Bible scholars in almost all major denominations on planet Earth do not choose to go down that road when it comes to not doing any work. The idea that work in the garden is not work if you enjoy it - is a creative bend you suggest for the text but is not actually in it.

Do you think Jesus enjoys the work of believing in God? (John 6:28-29) Or do you enjoy the work of believing in Jesus?

 

[Bob S]

White aside, did God rest for a literal 24-hour period on that first 7th Day?

Isaiah 55
For my thoughts are not your thoughts,
neither are your ways my ways, declares the Lord.

For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
so are my ways higher than your ways
and my thoughts than your thoughts.

According to SDAs God would now have to be resting for two days.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Sabbath day sacrifices are in addition to the regular sacrifices according to the scripture (Numbers 28:1-10). It is quite clear that it says, “in addition (עַל־ (‘al-)).” Anyway, We agree all sacrifices ended at the cross (Colossians 2:14).


I think we are discussing if Colossians 2:16 refers to the weekly Sabbath. It is irrelevant to bring up this part at this point.


Did Jesus command them to do that in the scripture for keeping the Sabbath? Please share where Jesus commanded them. Please skip those human ideas of examples that are not His command.

Change in scripture? There are, but some twisted them.


As you quoted Exodus, you should know that Sabbath was a sign between Israelites and God in Exodus 31:17 and Ezekiel 20:20, not all nations. Accepting Mark 2:27 refers to every man is as good as accepting the change in the Sabbath commandment. And traditions refer to those not commanded by God but added practices. The example Jesus did was carrying the cross and not going to the temple since many recorded occasions do not support this teaching.

I'm not saying there were not sacrifices on the Sabbath which I already stated. There were sacrifices daily, because people sinned daily. Do we delete the third day of the week because sacrifices ended on that day? The only thing that changed is Jesus became our great Sacrifice.

I think Colossians 2:14-16 has been beaten to death and obviously the Sabbath did not end at the cross as we see the disciples keeping the Sabbath day decades later after the cross and the Sabbath continuing to heaven and the new earth. Jesus spoke of the Sabbath like it would be kept for His people decades after He ascended. Matthew 24:20

God commanded us to keep the Sabbath and God should not have to repeat Himself, keeping the commandments of God is a theme throughout the entire scripture and despite peoples objection to God making the Sabbath one of His eternal commandments written by His very own finger, one's objection does not change these facts. Exodus 20, Exodus 34:28 Exodus 31:18, Revelation 11:19

 

[Leaf473]

According to SDAs God would now have to be resting for two days.

It's a difficult situation to be in. Straight answers are not forthcoming.

An honest answer
is like a warm hug.
Bible Gateway passage: Proverbs 24 - The Message

 

[BobRyan]

Hi BobRyan,

I think I was talking about “therefore remember the Sabbath day,” not “remember the Sabbath day and the six days of creation (which is adding to the words of God).”

Is it your claim that someone else wrote/spoke the Ten commandments in Exodus 20 -- not God?

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 For six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the Lord your God; on it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male slave or your female slave, or your cattle, or your resident who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Which part of that do you not consider to be included in the Sabbath commandment in Ex 20??

 

[BobRyan]

As you quoted Exodus, you should know Sabbath was a sign between Israelites and God in Exodus 31:17 and Ezekiel 20:20.

True -

And gentiles a specifically singled out for keeping the Sabbath instead of profaning it in Is 56:6-7

6 “Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To attend to His service and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps the Sabbath so as not to profane it,
And holds firmly to My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

No wonder then all mankind keeps the Sabbath in Gen 2:1-3 when it was started according to Ex 20:11

No wonder then - all mankind is to keep the Sabbath for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth as we see in Is 66:23

No wonder "the Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27 according to Christ.

Isaiah prophesied the future, which is the NT Sabbath and the OT Sabbath - it is the same term used in both testaments and as the NT shows us in Acts 13, Acts 17 and Acts 18:4 -- every time we see the gentiles keeping Sabbath - it is Saturday - the same as the OT Sabbath.

 

[BobRyan]

Where is the commandment of going to the church? Please share.

It is a "day of holy convocation" as already noted in my previous posts.

Lev 23:2-3
2 “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘The Lord’s appointed times which you shall proclaim as holy convocations—My appointed times are these:
3 ‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a Sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a Sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
No Bible text says week-day-1 is the Lord's Day - but it does tell us that Sabbath "is the Holy Day of the LORD" and it tells us that Jesus is "Lord of the Sabbath". So the "sola scriptura" definition for Lord's Day - is the Sabbath.

So your definition of Lord’s Day is different from Icy? Anyway, I was referencing Icy’s definition.

That is fine - I am referring to the Bible definition for it.

 

[BobRyan]

Please share when the new covenant begins, before or after the resurrection of Jesus by the Spirit (Romans 8:11).

Gal 1:6-9 there is only ONE Gospel
Gal 3:8 The Gospel was preached to Abraham
Jer 3:31-34 the NEW Covenant in the OT is that one Gospel covenant
Heb 8:6-12 that NEW Covenant is UNCHANGED in the NT from its form in the OT

It is the only covenant that promises the new birth, new heart, adoption into God's family , a personal God and forgiveness of sins.

 

[BobRyan]

Do you think Jesus enjoys the work of believing in God? (John 6:28-29) Or do you enjoy the work of believing in Jesus?

28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

That is the pre-cross condition and also the post-cross condition. Christ never says that if you believe in God you should ignore God's commandments.

John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
Eph 6:2 "'honor your father and mother' is the first commandment with a promise"
1 Cor 7:29 "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God"
Rev 14:12a the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

 

[BobRyan]

According to SDAs God would now have to be resting for two days.

Bob S makes so many statements "for others" without actually having a quote of one... it is losing its entertainment value.

 

[JulieB67]

Heb 4 says the Sabbath rest "remains" for the people of God. "Remains from when?"" According to Heb 4 - it remains from what it was at the time of David - in the OT text it quotes. So how was the Sabbath defined in David's day? hmmm - 7th day of the week.

Heb 4 uses it as symbol or type - since it "remains" for something else that also remains - in the promised rest - for all. But if it had been deleted it could not be a symbol for that which remains.

Hebrews 4 states sabbatimos remains. Sabbatimos is not the 7th day. It's not that type of rest no matter how many of you claim that's what remains. It's a type of heavenly rest. That's the very definiton. It is not Sabbaton. Even when you claim it's a "sabbath keeping" it is a keeping of sabbatimos -type of heavenly rest. It's not a keeping of the day of rest -the 7th.

It remains because it was just as Paul taught -a shadow of the rest we have today in Christ. A day of rest is never going to give you sabbatimos. Again, it's not that type of rest.

 

[Leaf473]

It is a "day of holy convocation" as already noted in my previous posts.

Lev 23:2-3
2 “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘The Lord’s appointed times which you shall proclaim as holy convocations—My appointed times are these:
3 ‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a Sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a Sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.

Another convocation which it sounds like is permanent,

Then the Lord spoke to Moses, saying, 27 “On exactly the tenth day of this seventh month is the Day of Atonement; it shall be a holy convocation for you, and you shall humble yourselves and present an offering by fire to the Lord. 28 You shall not do any work on this very day, for it is a Day of Atonement, to make atonement on your behalf before the Lord your God. 29 If there is any [j]person who does not humble himself on this very day, he shall be cut off from his people. 30 As for any person who does any work on this very day, that person I will eliminate from among his people. 31 You shall not do any work. It is to be a permanent statute throughout your generations in all your dwelling places.
Bible Gateway passage: Leviticus 23 - New American Standard Bible
_____________________________
Edit: the quote from the NASB contained a footnote which is also the BB code for italics here on CF and I can't figure out an easy way to undo it.

 

[JulieB67]

No Bible text says week-day-1 is the Lord's Day - but it does tell us that Sabbath "is the Holy Day of the LORD" and it tells us that Jesus is "Lord of the Sabbath". So the "sola scriptura" definition for Lord's Day - is the Sabbath.

The Lord's Day is neither Sat or Sun. It is the time when the Lord himself returns. John was in the Spirit on that day and told to write about that past, present and future of that time period -the Lord's Day. The Lord's Day is just another way of stating the Day of the Lord/Day of Christ. It's not a day of the week and it was never described as such by anyone that way in the bible. Traditions of men have made it a day of the week.

Our major clue is the description of Christ himself. Which mirrors his return later on in the book.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Bob S makes so many statements "for others" without actually having a quote of one... it is losing its entertainment value.

Would you kindly answer the question I posed for you in Post #1600?

 

[Cornelius8L]

I'm not saying there were not sacrifices on the Sabbath which I already stated. There were sacrifices daily, because people sinned daily. Do we delete the third day of the week because sacrifices ended on that day? The only thing that changed is Jesus became our great Sacrifice.

I think Colossians 2:14-16 has been beaten to death and obviously the Sabbath did not end at the cross as we see the disciples keeping the Sabbath day decades later after the cross and the Sabbath continuing to heaven and the new earth. Jesus spoke of the Sabbath like it would be kept for His people decades after He ascended. Matthew 24:20

God commanded us to keep the Sabbath and God should not have to repeat Himself, keeping the commandments of God is a theme throughout the entire scripture and despite peoples objection to God making the Sabbath one of His eternal commandments written by His very own finger, one's objection does not change these facts. Exodus 20, Exodus 34:28 Exodus 31:18, Revelation 11:19

I know you are not saying there were no sacrifices on the Sabbath day, but you are saying there were no additional sacrifices on the seventh day, denying the easy-to-read scripture (Numbers 28:1-10). Anyway, I don’t understand how your question fits into this context.

Colossians 2:14-16 refers to the weekly Sabbath. It does not end, but it does not remain as it was when people used Sabbath to judge others. And your usage of Matthew 24:20 suggests Sabbath Journey remains.

Keeping the Sabbath your way is SDA doctrine, not the scripture. Shall we look into the other SDA doctrines in a separate thread? (Kindly invite me if you have that thread. I’m particularly interested in the explanation of the beast mark and by which part of the scripture SDA proved it. Thanks.)

 

[Cornelius8L]

Is it your claim that someone else wrote/spoke the Ten commandments in Exodus 20 -- not God?

8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 For six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath of the Lord your God; on it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male slave or your female slave, or your cattle, or your resident who stays with you. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and everything that is in them, and He rested on the seventh day; for that reason the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Which part of that do you not consider to be included in the Sabbath commandment in Ex 20??

Let me make this simpler. The fourth commandment is:
(A) Remember the Sabbath Day, or
(B) Remember the Sabbath Day and the Six days of creation.

A or B for you?

True -

And gentiles a specifically singled out for keeping the Sabbath instead of profaning it in Is 56:6-7

6 “Also the foreigners who join themselves to the Lord,
To attend to His service and to love the name of the Lord,
To be His servants, every one who keeps the Sabbath so as not to profane it,
And holds firmly to My covenant;
7 Even those I will bring to My holy mountain,
And make them joyful in My house of prayer.
Their burnt offerings and their sacrifices will be acceptable on My altar;
For My house will be called a house of prayer for all nations.”

No wonder then all mankind keeps the Sabbath in Gen 2:1-3 when it was started according to Ex 20:11

No wonder then - all mankind is to keep the Sabbath for all eternity after the cross in the New Earth as we see in Is 66:23

No wonder "the Sabbath was made for mankind" Mark 2:27 according to Christ.

Isaiah prophesied the future, which is the NT Sabbath and the OT Sabbath - it is the same term used in both testaments and as the NT shows us in Acts 13, Acts 17 and Acts 18:4 -- every time we see the gentiles keeping Sabbath - it is Saturday - the same as the OT Sabbath.

Your quote on Isaiah 56:6-7 itself testified that the Sabbath Commandment changed from a sign between Israelites and God to everyone. NT later also testified the Sabbath changed.

It is a "day of holy convocation" as already noted in my previous posts.

Lev 23:2-3
2 “Speak to the sons of Israel and say to them, ‘The Lord’s appointed times which you shall proclaim as holy convocations—My appointed times are these:
3 ‘For six days work may be done, but on the seventh day there is a Sabbath of complete rest, a holy convocation. You shall not do any work; it is a Sabbath to the Lord in all your dwellings.

Is that a commandment? Or ordinances that already ended?

Gal 1:6-9 there is only ONE Gospel
Gal 3:8 The Gospel was preached to Abraham
Jer 3:31-34 the NEW Covenant in the OT is that one Gospel covenant
Heb 8:6-12 that NEW Covenant is UNCHANGED in the NT from its form in the OT

It is the only covenant that promises the new birth, new heart, adoption into God's family , a personal God and forgiveness of sins.

It will be helpful if you can provide more context on what you are trying to say. But thanks for helping me see Hebrews 8:13 also mentioned the change in the covenant. Why did you ignore v13?

Hebrews 8:13 “By speaking of a new covenant, He has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and aging will soon disappear.” This is in sync with 2 Corinthians 3:11 “For if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which endures!” (He has qualified us as ministers of a new covenant, v6)

28 Therefore they said to Him, “What are we to do, so that we may accomplish the works of God?” 29 Jesus answered and said to them, “This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent.”

That is the pre-cross condition and also the post-cross condition. Christ never says that if you believe in God you should ignore God's commandments.

John 14:15 "IF you Love Me KEEP My Commandments"
Eph 6:2 "'honor your father and mother' is the first commandment with a promise"
1 Cor 7:29 "what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God"
Rev 14:12a the saints "KEEP the Commandments of God AND their faith in Jesus"

If you believe in God, you need to believe He changed the commandment as written.

Ok, let’s discuss the commandment with a promise (Ephesians 6:2), honor your father and mother (Exodus 20:12). In OT, it was quite clear that father and mother refer to our biological parents. Jesus, however, in NT, said otherwise.

Luke 8
19Then Jesus’ mother and brothers came to see Him, but they were unable to reach Him because of the crowd. 20He was told, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to see You.” 21But He replied, “My mother and brothers are those who hear the word of God and carry it out.”​

In other words, if Jesus’s biological mother does not carry out the words of God, will Jesus acknowledge her as mother? If the answer is no, then the OT 5th commandment has changed.