What should you do with your millions?

[Allen of the Cross]

The 'poverty' gospel refers to the opposite of the 'prosperity' gospel. The prosperity gospel is that God wants us to be rich. The poverty gospel is that God requires us to be poor. Please dont lecture me on the virtues of being poor. I'm sick and disabled.

I have no interest in engaging in unchristlike behavior with you so if this is how you're going to talk to me, I'm gonna see myself out of this conversation now. Bye!

 

[Whyayeman]

Please dont lecture me on the virtues of being poor. I'm sick and disabled.

I was only asking! (And quoting the Gospel.)

Perhaps somebody else can explain the term 'poverty gospel'. I have never heard the expression.

 

[Astrid]

As a capitalist, I am well aware of this. But which stuff should you get, and for whom is the question.

The power of the market can be used selfishly, and good happens anyway because of that, yes. The good old invisible hand at work. But that same power can be used very effectively for good causes too, and the invisible hand still works and does its good. The difference maker is the choice of the consumer, and when that is informed by a good conscience, that is where Christians with money should seek to be outside of special callings otherwise.

What Christians as such should do is of
little concern to me, though I would say that
our traditions concerning ethics and morality
are generally pretty congruent, and in no way
inferior.

As for myself I can't get into the conspicuous
overconsumption that many of my acquaintances
indulge in.
I'm not one who can walk, all Chanel and Cartier,
past poor working people with my head up
and eyes fixed on the end of the street.
My material personal possessions are
comparativy few and simple; that's just how I am.

What .oney I dont set aside for throwing up in
the air so it can bounce off my head is
mostly in inherited real estate and ongoing
investments in the same.
If I just had a room full of cash I'd feel differently
obligated to help the poor.

 

[Ken-1122]

The Gospels claim: 'It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.'

According to number of american millionaires at DuckDuckGo there are more than 15 million American millionaire households.

I dare say some of them post here. Are they condemned to be denied entry to the 'Kingdom of God'? Or is there another route to Heaven for the rich?

It didn't say it was impossible, just difficult. Also; wasn't Job rich? Yet he was God's favorite.

 

[Whyayeman]

It didn't say it was impossible, just difficult. Also; wasn't Job rich? Yet he was God's favorite.

Difficult? Impossible if taken literally. I suppose my question is; what is the metaphorical meaning? I wonder if many Christians, in this age of plenty, would rather forget this aspect of the gospel teaching.

At first I thought this was a reference to Steve...

 

[atpollard]

Difficult? Impossible if taken literally. I suppose my question is; what is the metaphorical meaning?

FYI:
What Is the Meaning of “A Camel Going Through the Eye of a Needle"?

Camels, Needles, and the Rich
If Jesus was talking about an actual camel and an actual needle, then the rich are in big trouble. Commentaries suggest that He may have been saying something different. The Aramaic word for “rope,” kamilon, was almost identical to the Greek word for “camel,” kamelon, which appears in the verse. Some scholars say that the word was misspelled, and so Jesus may have been making an analogy to threading a thick rope through the eye of a needle, not a large animal. In other words, He may have been referring to something extremely difficult, but not impossible.

Other commentators suggest that, at that time, there was a type of small gate called a needle. Still, others insist that Jesus’ statement was as absurd as it sounds, actually referring to our same notions of camels and needles.

There are several potential explanations for what camels and needles could have meant in Biblical times. However, all of them point to the same lesson: Jesus said that it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, for a rich person to enter His Kingdom.

In fact, when the disciples then speculate that no one can be saved, Jesus replies, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” (Matthew 19:26)

Jesus himself settles the question: He was intentionally referring to something impossible.​

 

[Whyayeman]

It is just grand when a Gospel is re-interpreted as a spelling mistake. Matthew 19:26 is changed from 'could have meant' something totally different' to 'did mean something totally different' in a little sleight of hand.

Christians must hold the Gospels as 'the word of God'. Commentaries - not so much, especially when the commentaries make it a bit easier. In this case, providing an excuse for hanging on to those millions...

I am a bit sceptical about this, let's face it, convenient gloss on the text.

 

[atpollard]

Did you visit the site in the link?

I quoted where they resolved the "metaphor" question by going to the context and pointing out that Jesus settled the issue ... He meant something impossible.

The site goes on to offer a great deal more "application" for modern Christians that might interest you.

 

[atpollard]

It is just grand when a Gospel is re-interpreted as a spelling mistake. Matthew 19:26 is changed from 'could have meant' something totally different' to 'did mean something totally different' in a little sleight of hand.

I would have snickered at the scholar suggesting the spelling mistake. Not because a spelling error is impossible, we have manuscripts that contain clear spelling errors when compared to other manuscripts ... that's what happens when people copy things. I would have laughed at his argument that "Jesus meant something hard, but not impossible" because I have a rope at home and I have a needle at home and it is easier to thread a rope through the eye of a needle than a camel through the eye of a needle ... but it is still impossible. So the scholarly conclusion is nonsense.

Hence the reaction of the disciples and Jesus' answer. [Context wins every time.]

 

[Astrid]

It is just grand when a Gospel is re-interpreted as a spelling mistake. Matthew 19:26 is changed from 'could have meant' something totally different' to 'did mean something totally different' in a little sleight of hand.

Christians must hold the Gospels as 'the word of God'. Commentaries - not so much, especially when the commentaries make it a bit easier. In this case, providing an excuse for hanging on to those millions...

I am a bit sceptical about this, let's face it, convenient gloss on the text.

I guess you've notice how so many people
want to write the Bible themselves, as if they
were old time prophets.

 

[Whyayeman]

I guess you've notice how so many people
want to write the Bible themselves, as if they
were old time prophets.

Yes, though I hadn't thought of it in quite those terms. Generally these rewrites are a bit of a steer in a direction favourable to some particular brand or other of religion. Americans are on the whole a great deal better off than most human beings. And lo! Jesus was only joking about the rich.

There is a long tradition of relinquishing material goodies in Christianity.

 

[Ken-1122]

Difficult? Impossible if taken literally. I suppose my question is; what is the metaphorical meaning? I wonder if many Christians, in this age of plenty, would rather forget this aspect of the gospel teaching.

They don't have to forget this aspect of the Gospel because the Gospel does not say it cannot be done.
It is my understanding this Eye of the Needle Jesus was referring to was not like an actual needle and thread like we have today, but an entrance to the city that humans could easily go through, but the camel usually had to enter through the gate due to his size.

 

[Whyayeman]

They don't have to forget this aspect of the Gospel because the Gospel does not say it cannot be done.

I agree with that. The way for a rich man to enter Kingdom of Heaven is to give everything away. I think the teaching here is pretty straightforward.

It is my understanding this Eye of the Needle Jesus was referring to was not like an actual needle and thread like we have today, but an entrance to the city that humans could easily go through, but the camel usually had to enter through the gate due to his size.

This is another invention to explain it away; that Jesus did not mean what he said. Perhaps there was such a gate; maybe it was a well known saying at the time. The problem is that it is rather speculative. No such gate is known to history and the saying seems to originate from the verse quoted above.

 

[Astrid]

I agree with that. The way for a rich man to enter Kingdom of Heaven is to give everything away. I think the teaching here is pretty straightforward.



This is another invention to explain it away; that Jesus did not mean what he said. Perhaps there was such a gate; maybe it was a well known saying at the time. The problem is that it is rather speculative. No such gate is known to history and the saying seems to originate from the verse quoted above.

I wonder if that's true for women also.

This situation quite complex. Who is rich?
The American street bum lives in material
splendor and security compared with millions
of 3rd world people.
At what point is it to all be given away?
Like the day I inherited?

Or if I had started from scratch, I just get things
going then suddenly abandon projects ?
I can't give away a business plan or a startup
or partnership to some poor people.
If I sell, then hand out cash, I'm just transferring my
"guilt" and adding to the wealth- burden of others, for.
Lo, I would surely sell at great lose and their profit.

If those with the means build the economy, everyone benefits.
If I give up a plan that would have lifted many from poverty
to a better life I become a better person?

But you are not a Christian " philosopher," so the qs
aren't really for you.

 

[o_mlly]

The Gospels claim: 'It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.'

According to number of american millionaires at DuckDuckGo there are more than 15 million American millionaire households.

I dare say some of them post here. Are they condemned to be denied entry to the 'Kingdom of God'? Or is there another route to Heaven for the rich?

Wealth is a cross to bear, not a boon. Wealth enables some to do what they ought not do and blinds some to what they should do. It is not wealth that impedes entry into heaven but the love of welath that does.

 

[Whyayeman]

... It is not wealth that impedes entry into heaven but the love of welath that does.

That is not what it says in the gospel!

Matthew 19:24 is explicit. Interestingly Jesus is repeating this lesson - as if it met the same resistance at the time!

Perhaps there is a pronouncement elsewhere in the New Testament to help with this?

 

[Whyayeman]

I wonder if that's true for women also.

Well, why not? I accept that at one time women had no money of their own. However, many women now have independent means and the 15 million millionaires figure refers to households; a good proportion will be female, I dare say.

No get-out clause for being female these days!

 

[Ken-1122]

I agree with that. The way for a rich man to enter Kingdom of Heaven is to give everything away. I think the teaching here is pretty straightforward.

If a rich man gave everything away, he would no longer be rich and would be just another poor man trying to enter; but he didn't say only the poor can enter.

This is another invention to explain it away; that Jesus did not mean what he said. Perhaps there was such a gate; maybe it was a well known saying at the time. The problem is that it is rather speculative. No such gate is known to history and the saying seems to originate from the verse quoted above.

A simple google search seems to support my claim.
The Eye of a Needle

 

[DaveM]

Rich toward God? Does that mean anything relevant to the question? Lay up treasures in Heaven - like doing good works, I suppose. And hanging on to the money?

Rich towards God can mean different things IMO, but for a millionaire, I would see something like a person who gives to ministry work, orphans and widows, more than he gives to himself as far as hobbies and luxury living,,,, so basically do spend more on the kingdom or more on your luxury lifestyle, giving only from your abundance

when you give and serve you are laying up treasure in heaven.
Matthew 6:1-4
“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. “Thus, when you give to the needy, sound no trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may be praised by others. Truly, I say to you, they have received their reward. But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, so that your giving may be in secret. And your Father who sees in secret will reward you.

really pretty simple a man's heart can be seen where he spends his
1. money
2. Time
3. Thoughts
4. what he prays for

 

[Astrid]

Well, why not? I accept that at one time women had no money of their own. However, many women now have independent means and the 15 million millionaires figure refers to households; a good proportion will be female, I dare say.

No get-out clause for being female these days!

Rats.

Well that does still leave women
the prerogative to have a little fun