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How can there be free will in heaven?

BNR32FAN

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I have no idea what this is.

Nestorianism is the belief that Jesus’ two natures, the divine, and human were two separate natures. The ecumenical council of Ephesus rejected that notion because it contradicts the idea that God was incarcerated in the flesh as Jesus. Jesus was both fully man and fully God His entire life here on earth, from the moment He was incarnated to the moment He died He was fully God.
 
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Clare73

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Since Adam means everyone including Adam.
Actually, "Adam" means "man," which is also used of all mankind including women.
If Adam didn’t have a sinful nature before the fall there wouldn’t have been a fall.
Adam was created "in the image of God," which is not sinful, but is in righteousness, holiness and knowledge of God (Ephesians 4:24; Colossians 3:10).
 
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BNR32FAN

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Actually, "Adam" means "man," which is also used of all mankind including women.
Adam was created "in the image of God," which is not sinful, but is in righteousness, holiness and knowledge of God (Ephesians 4:24; Colossians 3:10).

Everyone is created in the image of God.

“But no one can tame the tongue; it is a restless evil and full of deadly poison. With it we bless our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in the likeness of God;”
‭‭James‬ ‭3‬:‭8‬-‭9‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬
 
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Clare73

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There’s nothing in that passage that gives any indication of when man received his sinful nature, there’s nothing even remotely mentioning Adam or the fall of man. Paul is talking about his sinful nature yes but he doesn’t give any indication or mention of when man received his fallen nature. We know where we got it from, we got it from Adam, but there’s no scripture that indicates that Adam didn’t have his sinful nature before the fall.
That is ABSURD!

God is not the author of sin!
God does not create in sin!
So what sin, before he ate the fruit, caused the guilt resulting in this sinful nature at his creation?

BALDERDASH!
Jesus’ ability to remain sinless is due to the fact that He is God, therefore He cannot sin. God cannot transgress or rebel against Himself.
Jesus was 100% human, not a fake copy, created in righteousness, which is why he is the second Adam, the first Adam also being created in righteousness, the former sinning it away and the latter not sinning it away.
 
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BNR32FAN

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That is ABSURD!

God is not the author of sin!
God does not create in sin!
So what sin, before he ate the fruit, caused the guilt resulting in this sinful nature at his creation?

BALDERDASH!

Jesus was 100% human, not a fake copy, created in righteousness, which is why he is the second Adam, the first Adam also being created in righteousness, the former sinning it away and the latter not sinning it away.

So Jesus was 100% man and 0% God is that what your saying here? If not then what percentage of Christ was God?
 
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Clare73

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Everyone is created
Actually, Adam and Eve are the only ones created.
The rest of us occur by natural generation.
in the image of God.
Adam's fall didn't destroy the image of God (rationality, morality), it damaged it.
 
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Clare73

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So Jesus was 100% man and 0% God is that what your saying here? If not then
what percentage of Christ was God?
100% was God.

Jesus had two natures--100% human and 100% divine--in one person.

And God has three persons in one being.
 
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Clare73

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You agreed previously that we do not inherit Adam’s guilt of his sin but instead we inherited his sinful nature and are only guilt of our own sins.
Yes, we do not inherit Adam's guilt, rather it is imputed to us (Romans 5:12-15),

we were made sinners (Romans 5:19), just as we are made righteous by the imputed righteousness of

Jesus Christ (Romans 4:1-11), made both sinners and righteous by imputation, not by inheritance.
 
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BNR32FAN

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100% was God.

Jesus had two natures--100% human and 100% divine--in one person.

And God has three persons in one being.

Exactly so now apply what you said in that post pertaining to God.

God is not the author of sin!
God does not create in sin!

Hence Jesus was incapable of sin because He is God and He cannot transgress or rebel against Himself.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Yes, we do not inherit Adam's guilt, rather it is imputed to us (Romans 5:12-15),

we were made sinners (Romans 5:19), just as we are made righteous by the imputed righteousness of

Jesus Christ (Romans 4:1-11), made both sinners and righteous by imputation, not by inheritance.

When you say that we inherited Adam’s guilt your saying that we are punished for Adam’s sin. That God is holding us responsible for what Adam did. I’ve already shown you that we are punished for our own sins not the sins of our father.

In both cases we are not made sinners nor are we made righteous without taking action. We are made sinners by our sinful nature causing us to commit sin just as we are made righteous by repenting and believing in Christ. Neither of those cases are automatic, both require an action on our part.

““Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity?’ When the son has practiced justice and righteousness and has observed all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live. The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Guilt of sin is not automatically imputed to all men just like justification is not automatically imputed to all men, both require an action on the part of each individual.
 
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Clare73

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When you say that we inherited Adam’s guilt your saying that we are punished for Adam’s sin. That God is holding us responsible for what Adam did. I’ve already shown you that we are punished for our own sins not the sins of our father.
And I've already shown you that we are not punished for "inherited" sins of our father.

We did not "inherit" Adam's sin/guilt, it was "imputed" to us.
In both cases we are not made sinners nor are we made righteous without taking action. We are made sinners by our sinful nature causing us to commit sin just as we are made righteous by repenting and believing in Christ. Neither of those cases are automatic, both require an action on our part.
You are misunderstanding NT apostolic teaching.

Imputed righteousness (Genesis 15:6) is justification (Romans 4:2-3).

"Works," by definition, are physical performance, as in law keeping.
Faith is not physical performance, faith is not a "work," faith is an internal disposition.

However, true faith does have works, but those works of faith do not count for anything in salvation (Ephesians 2:8-9) and justification/imputed righteousness (Romans 3:21, Romans 3:28).
““Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity?’ When the son has practiced justice and righteousness and has observed all My statutes and done them, he shall surely live. The person who sins will die. The son will not bear the punishment for the father’s iniquity, nor will the father bear the punishment for the son’s iniquity; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself.”
‭‭Ezekiel‬ ‭18‬:‭19‬-‭20‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬
Guilt of sin is not automatically imputed to all men
Romans 5:12-15 (where the imputation of the First Adam's sin/guilt
--which caused the death of all those between Adam and Moses, even though they did not sin because there was no law to sin against--
is the pattern, Romans 5:14, for the imputation of the Second Adam, Christ's righteousness)
and Romans 5:18-19 state otherwise.
just like justification is not automatically imputed to all men, both require an action on the part of each individual.
Just as guilt is imputed to all those born of (the first) Adam, so also righteousness is imputed to all those born of (the second Adam) Christ (Romans 5:19).
 
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BNR32FAN

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Works," by definition, are physical performance, as in law keeping.
Faith is not physical performance, faith is not a "work," faith is an internal disposition.

I don’t know why we’re getting into the subject of works. I described the actions that we must do to receive Christ’s atonement as repentance and belief, both of which are an internal disposition.
 
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Clare73

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I don’t know why we’re getting into the subject of works. I described the actions that we must do to receive Christ’s atonement as repentance and belief, both of which are an internal disposition.
You said action was required.
Action is physical, it is a work.
Salvation and justification are apart from works/action.
 
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BNR32FAN

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And I've already shown you that we are not punished for "inherited" sins of our father.

We did not "inherit" Adam's sin/guilt, it was "imputed" to us.

Ok fair enough I apologize for using the word “inherited” either way it’s still the same outcome. If we are condemned by Adam’s sin whether it be from inheriting the guilt of his sin or imputation of the guilt of his sin it’s still the same outcome, we are “bearing the punishment of our father’s sin” which God said in Ezekiel 18:20 does not happen.
 
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Clare73

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Ok fair enough I apologize for using the word “inherited” either way it’s still the same outcome. If we are condemned by Adam’s sin whether it be from inheriting the guilt of his sin or imputation of the guilt of his sin it’s still the same outcome, we are “bearing the punishment of our father’s sin” which God said in Ezekiel 18:20 does not happen.
No, God said we do not "inherit" our father's sin, do not share in his guilt, he said nothing about imputation, which is not the same thing.
We do not inherit our father's sin, we inherit his fallen nature, which involves us in no sinful action until we understand right from wrong.
However, Adam's sin/guilt is imputed to us at birth. We are born condemned (Romans 5:18), by nature (with which we are born) objects of wrath (Ephesians 2:3) and enemies of God (Romans 5:10).
Just as the rattlesnake is born my enemy by his nature of rattlesnake.
 
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BNR32FAN

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You said action was required.
Action is physical, it is a work.
Salvation and justification are apart from works/action.

What a blatant and intentional misrepresentation of what I actually said. Is this what your resorting to now? Despicable propagandist tactics? Repentance and believing are works?
 
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BNR32FAN

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No, God said we do not "inherit" our father's sin, do not share in his guilt, he said nothing about imputation, which is not the same thing.
We do not inherit our father's sin, we inherit his fallen nature, which involves us in no sinful action until we understand right from wrong.
However, Adam's sin/guilt is imputed to us at birth. We are born condemned (Romans 5:18), by nature (with which we are born) objects of wrath (Ephesians 2:3) and enemies of God (Romans 5:10).
Just as the rattlesnake is born my enemy by his nature of rattlesnake.

Your injecting the word born into the passage. Paul hasn’t mentioned anything about being born with the guilt of sin. Your pulling that out of thin air to support your theology.
 
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Clare73

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Romans 5:12-15 (where the imputation of the First Adam's sin/guilt
--which caused the death of all those between Adam and Moses, even though they did not sin because there was no law to sin against--
is the pattern, Romans 5:14, for the imputation of the Second Adam, Christ's righteousness)
and Romans 5:18-19 state otherwise.
Just as guilt is imputed to all those born of (the first) Adam, so also righteousness is imputed to all those born of (the second Adam) Christ (Romans 5:19).
Your injecting the word born into the passage. Paul hasn’t mentioned anything about being born with the guilt of sin. Your pulling that out of thin air to support your theology.
In light of my post above, at what point in the lives of those born from Adam to Moses, who did not sin (Romans 5:14), was Adam's sin, the cause of their deaths (Romans 6:23), imputed to them?

Did we inherit Adam's fallen nature at birth, or at some later date?
Likewise with imputation of his sin/guilt.
 
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BNR32FAN

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In light of my post above, at what point in the lives of those born from Adam to Moses, who did not sin (Romans 5:14), was Adam's sin, the cause of their deaths (Romans 6:23), imputed to them?

Did we inherit Adam's fallen nature at birth, or at some later date?
Likewise with imputation of his sin/guilt.

Theres a huge difference between inheriting Adam’s sinful nature and having the guilt of Adam’s sin imputed upon us. Our condemned is not because of what Adam did our condemnation is the result of what we did because of what we inherited from Adam, that being his sinful nature. We are condemned for our own sins not for the sin that Adam committed. Your misquoting Romans 5:14 and omitting a very important detail from that verse.

“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Paul didn’t say that some people between Adam and Moses didn’t sin.

In answer to your question concerning Romans 6:23 Adam’s sin was the cause of their death but it was not “imputed” on them. If it was “imputed” on them then that means that they were condemned by Adam’s sin not their own sin which again contradicts what God said in Ezekiel 18:20. Adam’s sin caused their sinful nature thereby causing them to sin thus condemning themselves. Your close to being right but your holding on to this imputation doctrine that’s throwing you off. If we are born condemned because God has imputed Adam’s sin upon us at birth before we have committed any sin then Ezekiel 18:20 is incorrect.
 
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Clare73

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Theres a huge difference between inheriting Adam’s sinful nature and having the guilt of Adam’s sin imputed upon us. Our condemned is not because of what Adam did our condemnation is the result of what we did because of what we inherited from Adam, that being his sinful nature. We are condemned for our own sins not for the sin that Adam committed. Your misquoting Romans 5:14 and omitting a very important detail from that verse.
“Nevertheless death reigned from Adam until Moses, even over those who had not sinned in the likeness of the offense of Adam, who is a type of Him who was to come.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭5‬:‭14‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

Paul didn’t say that some people between Adam and Moses didn’t sin.
But he did.
The argument of Romans 5:12-15 is:

Sin is transgression of the law (which has death penalty attached), as in Genesis 2:16.
The penalty of sin is physical death (Romans 6:23).
Where there is no law, there is no sin (Romans 4:15, Romans 5:13).
There was no law (with death penalty attached) between Adam and Moses (Romans 5:13).
Yet all, without exception, died--even "those who did not sin" in the likeness of Adam (by breaking a command with the death penalty attached). (Romans 5:14).
(Sinful) Adam was a pattern of the one to come (righteous Christ). (Romans 5:14)
The many (who did not sin) died by the trespass of the one man (Adam). (Romans 5:15)

They all died between Adam and Moses (even though they did not sin)
by the sin of Adam (imputed to all those born of Adam),
making sinful (first) Adam the pattern (Romans 5:14) of the righteous (second Adam) Christ
(whose righteousness is imputed to all those born of Christ). (Genesis 15:6; Romans 4:1-11)
If you object to imputation of Adam's sin, then you should also object to imputation of Christ's righteousness.

That contrasting parallel of the imputation of Adam's sin and the imputation of Christ's righteousness is drawn in Romans 5:18-19.
In answer to your question concerning Romans 6:23 Adam’s sin was the cause of their death but
it was not “imputed” on them. If it was “imputed” on them then that means that they were condemned by Adam’s sin not their own sin which again contradicts what God said in Ezekiel 18:20.
Ezekiel 18:20 also states: "The righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him," yet the righteousness of the righteous man, Christ, is credited to others.
Adam’s sin caused their sinful nature thereby
causing them to sin thus condemning themselves.
You are in disagreement with NT apostolic teaching that they did not sin between Adam and Moses (Romans 5:14).
Your close to being right but your holding on to this imputation doctrine that’s throwing you off. If we are born condemned because God has imputed Adam’s sin upon us at birth before we have committed any sin then Ezekiel 18:20 is incorrect.
By that reasoning, the last half of Ezekiel 18:20--"the righteousness of the righteous man will be credited to him," is also incorrect. . .according to 2 Corinthians 5:21; 1 Corinthians 1:30; Philippians 3:9; Genesis 15:6; Romans 1:17, Romans 3:21, Romans 4:3, Romans 5:19, where it is credited to others.

The OT is to be understood in the light of the NT.
 
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