Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian [moved thread]

[Cornelius8L]

I'm including my numbered reasons from the opening post to go along with your responses such that we can better compare what you're saying in reply to what I said.

The fourth commandment memorializes the creation event. I think that's pretty clear from what Exodus 20 relates: "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." Iow, because the LORD made the heavens and the earth in six days, the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. That seems pretty plain. And remembering is backwards pointing. It's not shadowy in nature as shadows point forward to some future fulfillment (i.e. the Source of the shadow).

As for whether any "christ-believer would reject the fact that God creates everything," I'd say that's not what we see in reality. There are lots of "christ-believers" who have succumbed to the idea that evolution is settled science and have defaulted to a belief that this world is millions of years old. These "believers" attempt to align what the Bible says with what the ever-changing beliefs scientists come up with which they claim are solid and foundational.

Is it "tradition" to believe what the Scriptures teach? I'm not the one who placed the word "Therefore" in the context of remembering the six days in which "the Lord made the heavens and the earth..." Why would you think to wave this off as tradition?

God put “Therefore,” to focus on the next statement. God blessed the day because He rested, not because He created the heaven and earth during the six days. "Remembering" is on that day he rested, not work. Genesis 2 never asks us to remember anything. Exodus 20 asks us to remember Genesis 2’s rest, “Remember the Sabbath day.” Not “Remember the creation days.”

Are those who reject God’s creation in the first book of the Bible true believers? I don’t think so

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for human beings. It was made for our benefit. God created human beings to work, but it was not to be an unending, ceaseless toiling. From the very beginning God set apart holy time for His human beings to spend a whole day resting and spending it with Him. It's a date with the Creator of the universe! How amazingly awesome is that? Why would anyone want to give that up?

God did not create human beings to work. The Garden of Eden was well-created, with no thorns and thistles (Genesis 3:18), and auto-watered (Genesis 2:6). Cultivating plants in such a Garden of Eden conditions is just a retiring old man's hobby, bonsai-ing, but Adam is not old. Work is a curse because of Adam’s sin (Genesis 3:17). From the beginning, God never set instructions for the seventh day. It came much later. What we are doing is enjoying the Sabbath the way not bound by the law. You, however, want to bind others with unnecessary instructions.

 

[Cornelius8L]

No, Isaiah 6 is not a parable.

Let’s skip the discussion of whether Isaiah 6 is a parable.

This is what Jesus said about rescuing an animal out of a ditch….

Mark 3:4 Then He said to them, “Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they kept silent.

We have a reasonable Savior who understands emergencies may happen on the Sabbath, for example if our neighbor has a medical emergency on the Sabbath and needs to be taken unto the hospital, not a sin. If our neighbor asks us to mow their lawn on the Sabbath, thats a sin, because it can wait until Sunday a day God deemed for work Exodus 20:9 or wait until another working day.

Luke 13:15
“You hypocrites!” the Lord replied. “Does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or donkey from the stall and lead it to water?​

Can’t they untie on Sunday? Will the animal die from thirst in one day? Isn’t it better for the animal to fast on the seventh day?

Yes, there are many heavenly things we don’t understand, but that does not negate our moral obligation to obey on earth now the things God commanded us like the Ten Commandments, which includes the Sabbath commandment. If God can’t trust us to obey His instructions now, I would not count on Him trusting us with heavenly things. God shows us small taste of what will be happening in heaven, like He has revealed Sabbath worship continues. Isaiah 66:22-23. He has also revealed the fruit a saved person now. Revelation 14:12. The better question I would be asking is how can we keep all of the commandments of God. Seems like a lot of energy instead goes into how to disprove the 4th commandment.

God trusts us to understand the meaning of the Sabbath (Hebrews 4:4) and enter the land of rest (Isaiah 28:12, Hebrews 4:8). God showed us that worship is not by tradition but by spirit and truth (John 4:24). We keep the 4th commandment by understanding the will of God and be perfect. We never break the 4th commandment every day because we are priests (Isaiah 66:21, Matthew 12:5). Priests see every day alike.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Luke 13:15
“You hypocrites!” the Lord replied. “Does not each of you on the Sabbath untie his ox or donkey from the stall and lead it to water?​

Can’t they untie on Sunday? Will the animal die from thirst in one day?

That’s cruel to leave an animal in a ditch suffering, so no thats not something that should wait. Jesus said it is lawful to do good on the Sabbath, which includes helping animals or people in need on emergency basis.

God trusts us to understand the meaning of the Sabbath (Hebrews 4:4)

Agree. Let’s post Hebrews 4:4
For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;

The He is God and God spoke in a certain place (Mount Sinai) of the seventh day- found in Exodus 20:8-11.

And God rested on the seventh day from all of His works.

God said:
Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.

According to God in very easy to understand and clear scripture, God said the seventh day is the Sabbath, not everyday. Since God is who I trust, I am going to believe what He has clearly stated and not what others teach who seem to be teaching something different.

God showed us that worship is not by tradition but by spirit and truth (John 4:24). .

Jesus teaches the same thing and warns us not to worship in vain obeying traditions over the commandments of God and quotes directly from the Ten Commandments. Matthew 15:3-9 Do you really think Jesus is advocating that we can break any of the Ten Commandments, including the Sabbath commandment? The Sabbath is a commandment of God with clear instructions by God to keep holy the seventh day. Exodus 20:8 We do not worship in Truth and Spirit by breaking the commandments of God but instead one worships in vain in clear easy to understand scripture from the teachings of Jesus. We demonstrate our faith in God through our actions, James 1:22 not altering what He has commanded of His children.

We keep the 4th commandment by understanding the will of God and be perfect. We never break the 4th commandment every day because we are priests (Isaiah 66:21, Matthew 12:5). Priests see every day alike. Sad to see that Sabbatarians are not priests but normal citizens

The scripture you posted does not match your commentary. The Sabbath is not every day and priest are held blameless working on the Sabbath so preachers preaching the Word of God on the Sabbath is not a sin.

And you will not find scripture that says this: We keep the 4th commandment by understanding the will of God and be perfect.

We keep the 4th commandment when we obey the 4th commandment. Exodus 20:8-11 God's will is that we obey Him Psalms 40:8 God wrote His will and testament with His own finger. We can’t and shouldn’t try to improve on what God so perfectly wrote.

 

[Bob S]

We never break the Sabbath because it was a command found in the old covenant that ended at Calvary and was never a rule for Gentiles. Nowhere in all of scripture does it tell Gentiles to rest on any day. We are free from being told we have to rest at any certain time. We have our rest with Jesus even when we are at our work. That is Jesus' invitation to all mankind

 

[Leaf473]

We keep the 4th commandment by understanding the will of God and be perfect. We never break the 4th commandment every day because we are priests (Isaiah 66:21, Matthew 12:5). Priests see every day alike.

That's an interesting idea. If one of the major feast days landed on the 7th Day, did the levitical priests still do the major feast Day sacrifice? I don't know enough about the law to be sure, but I think they did.

 

[Icyspark]

Actually, the 4th commandment is calling the Israelites to remember when God gave them the sabbath in the wilderness (Ex 16:28-29). In fact the call to "remember" is because the ancient Israelites seemed to have a very short memory as they persisted in their disobedience. This truth is born out by the fact that vv.9-10 are the first things they are to remember, which was their experience in the wilderness. V.11 tells us why they should remember that experience.

Hi Doran,

Um ... no.

I'm finding it hard to see that the Exodus 20 account allows for your interpretation. For the sake of clarity I'll post what you just responded to here and see if you can find a way to make these words of remembering the creation account into remembering the manna account:

The fourth commandment memorializes the creation event. I think that's pretty clear from what Exodus 20 relates: "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." Iow, because the LORD made the heavens and the earth in six days, the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. That seems pretty plain.​

Feel free to exegete Exodus 20:8-11 and show me how your interpretation works.

Further evidence to these facts is that to help the Israelites to remember that experience Moses instructed Aaron to put an omer of manna in jar to be kept for generations to come (Ex 16:33-35). In other words, the jar of manna was to serve as a memorial, as this jar was even kept in the Ark of the Covenant -- the covenant that is no longer in force, along with all its religious rituals!

I find it a bit premature to call your first assertion above "facts." Let's first see if you can take what God actually said about creation and defend your position about Him actually meaning to remember manna.

Placing an omer of manna in a jar and having that kept for generations to come has exactly what to do with the fourth commandment of Exodus 20:8-11? What does manna being placed inside the ark have to do with your first contention? This seems like an example of a leap in logic or jumping to a conclusion--both logical fallacies.

Also note that the Sabbath is a "commandment" and not a "decree" or an "ordinance." God made distinctions in His directives and the commandments He wrote on stone with His own finger are limited to a unit of Ten. He put the number there, not me. Think of His commandments as the U.S. Constitution which is the supreme law of the land, while all the other requirements, decrees and laws are subordinate to the Constitution.

Deuteronomy 11:1
Love the Lord your God and keep his requirements, his decrees, his laws and his commands always.​

Also note that the I agree that the covenant is no longer in force. The problem here is likely a misunderstanding of what a covenant is. Most ppl don't understand the meaning of the word. Please tell me what your understand is of a covenant and how you wish to apply it to this conversation.

God bless!

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Cornelius8L]

Agree. Let’s post Hebrews 4:4
For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;

The He is God and God spoke in a certain place (Mount Sinai) of the seventh day- found in Exodus 20:8-11.

And God rested on the seventh day from all of His works.

God said:
Exodus 20:10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God.

According to God in very easy to understand and clear scripture, God said the seventh day is the Sabbath, not everyday. Since God is who I trust, I am going to believe what He has clearly stated and not what others teach who seem to be teaching something different.




Jesus teaches the same thing and warns us not to worship in vain obeying traditions over the commandments of God and quotes directly from the Ten Commandments. Matthew 15:3-9 Do you really think Jesus is advocating that we can break any of the Ten Commandments, including the Sabbath commandment? The Sabbath is a commandment of God with clear instructions by God to keep holy the seventh day. Exodus 20:8 We do not worship in Truth and Spirit by breaking the commandments of God but instead one worships in vain in clear easy to understand scripture from the teachings of Jesus. We demonstrate our faith in God through our actions, James 1:22 not altering what He has commanded of His children.


The scripture you posted does not match your commentary. The Sabbath is not every day and priest are held blameless working on the Sabbath so preachers preaching the Word of God on the Sabbath is not a sin.

And you will not find scripture that says this: We keep the 4th commandment by understanding the will of God and be perfect.

We keep the 4th commandment when we obey the 4th commandment. Exodus 20:8-11 God's will is that we obey Him Psalms 40:8 God wrote His will and testament with His own finger. We can’t and shouldn’t try to improve on what God so perfectly wrote.

Let’s read Hebrews 4 and see how Paul changed the seventh day + place of rest = to today in Christ.

V1 – We can still enter His rest. The following verses will tell us what this rest is.
V2 – We received good news = Gospel of Christ [Word, John 1:14].
V3 – We enter that rest because we believe the good news. Those who do not believe this gospel cannot rest. Paul supported this statement by referencing two past occurrences. (i) End of wilderness journey-rest, & (ii) End of creation-rest.
V4 – These are past quotes, not instructions to us.
V5 – Emphasize that those who do not believe the gospel cannot enter that quoted place of rest, which Paul also connect/equate to the creation-rest.
V6 – Paul brought the conversation back to the current state because the gospel is here with us now.
V7 – As the gospel for us to believe so that we can enter rest remains [here with us] (v1-v3), God designated a specific day “Today,” and we believe in this gospel today and enter His rest (v3) immediately - Paul quoted David about what we must do “Today,” which is to believe. Not heart hardened.
V8 – The rest in v3, 5, and 6 involving Joshua’s leadership (which Paul equates to creation rest v4) is not the true rest, therefore, God designates another day, which is “Today” v7.
V9 – is repeating v1-3. The current state remains, not the future state.
V10 – God finished His kingdom creation work (Hebrews 12:26-28), so no one should create other kingdoms like what happened in 1 Corinthians 1:12, but believe solely in Him, entering His kingdom of rest (Isaiah 28:12) that the Word (Jesus) created (Matthew 11:28). This is not referring to other types of work.
V11 This is talking about “Today,” believe in the gospel/Christ and enter this rest.


v4 is a quote reference from the past to explain the current state. It changed.

And you will not find scripture that says this: We keep the 4th commandment by understanding the will of God and be perfect.

So you mean we can keep the sabbath without understanding the will of God and be perfect?

 

[Cornelius8L]

Hi @Icyspark ,

Could you tell us your steps to keep the Sabbath on the seventh day with biblical instruction? - something to be done differently compared to other days?

Should we circumcise because Jesus was circumcised?

Jesus went to the temple by custom not to demonstrate the spirit of one body. Jesus and the Apostles went to the temple to teach because the people were lost even though they gathered. They were never one body because the one in Moses’ seat wanted to kill them (Matthew 23:2). By Paul’s definition, one body does not need to be a physical gathering (Colossians 2:5). We are not one body by physical gathering but by obeying His will even remotely. Otherwise, how can we be one body one day but not other days?

Another piece of evidence is the name of Jesus, Emmanuel, “God with us” (Matthew 1:23). We say Jesus is Lord, meaning “God with us” is Lord. If we still need to go somewhere physically to be connected with God, then we fail to understand the power of God. If everyone has “God with us” as Lord in us, everyone is connected remotely as One body by Jesus holding us together (John 17:23). Saying physical gathering to be one body is limiting the power of God, moreover by the action of the flesh.

Also, can you confirm the preachers always preached correctly? If preachers explain the WOG wrongly in their sermons, aren’t they parading their sins in front of everyone? If God hates the blemish sacrifices in OT during OT Sabbath, do you think God will bless the seventh day when the preacher teaches the WOG wrongly in front of the congregation? The answer is no.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Let’s read Hebrews 4 and see how Paul changed the seventh day + place of rest = to today in Christ.

V1 – We can still enter His rest. The following verses will tell us what this rest is.
V2 – We received good news = Gospel of Christ [Word, John 1:14].
V3 – We enter that rest because we believe the good news. Those who do not believe this gospel cannot rest. Paul supported this statement by referencing two past occurrences. (i) End of wilderness journey-rest, & (ii) End of creation-rest.
V4 – These are past quotes, not instructions to us.
V5 – Emphasize that those who do not believe the gospel cannot enter that quoted place of rest, which Paul also connect/equate to the creation-rest.
V6 – Paul brought the conversation back to the current state because the gospel is here with us now.
V7 – As the gospel for us to believe so that we can enter rest remains [here with us] (v1-v3), God designated a specific day “Today,” and we believe in this gospel today and enter His rest (v3) immediately - Paul quoted David about what we must do “Today,” which is to believe. Not heart hardened.
V8 – The rest in v3, 5, and 6 involving Joshua’s leadership (which Paul equates to creation rest v4) is not the true rest, therefore, God designates another day, which is “Today” v7.
V9 – is repeating v1-3. The current state remains, not the future state.
V10 – God finished His kingdom creation work (Hebrews 12:26-28), so no one should create other kingdoms like what happened in 1 Corinthians 1:12, but believe solely in Him, entering His kingdom of rest (Isaiah 28:12) that the Word (Jesus) created (Matthew 11:28). This is not referring to other types of work.
V11 This is talking about “Today,” believe in the gospel/Christ and enter this rest.


v4 is a quote reference from the past to explain the current state. It changed.

No. Your commentary is not matching the scriptures.

Today does not all of the sudden become the seventh day Sabbath and the scriptures do not say this. There are two rests being referred to in the this passage, the Sabbath rest (commandment) and God’s rest. We enter into Gods rest when we cease our works, like God did on the seventh day. (Sabbath Exodus 20:10)

Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

When does God cease from His works? This very passage tells us which is a reference to creation Genesis 2:1-3 and to Exodus 20

Hebrews 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;

Can that be anymore clear?

Let’s see if the scriptures say “today” is now the seventh day Sabbath.

Hebrews 4:7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

So today is not turned into the seventh day Sabbath again, in very clear easy to read scriptures. No need to add anything to God’s Word.

Today means exactly as stated “today” as it has been said Do not harden your hearts. Which does not say today is now the seventh day Sabbath,

This is a repeat from David Pslams 95 and from Hebrews 3

Hebrews 3:15 Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”

Pslams 95:7-8 Today, if you will hear His voice:
8 “Do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion,

There is a warning in Hebrews 4:6 that the Israelites did not enter into God’s rest because they disobeyed? What they disobeyed was the Sabbath Ezekiel 20:13

Which is why the Sabbath rest (commandment- Exodus 20:8-11) remains for the people of God.

The word rest here in v. 9 means a keeping of the Sabbath which is why it starts with the word ”remains” instead of the new Sabbath is now today, which seems what you are trying to insert.

Hebrews 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

a Sabbath rest
σαββατισμὸς (sabbatismos)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 4520: A keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest. From a derivative of sabbaton; a 'sabbatism', i.e. the repose of Christianity.


The Sabbath is the seventh day according to God. Exodus 20:10

We should let the scriptures interpret scriptures. There is no scripture that says the seventh day is now “today” or we can break any of God’s commandments, including the Sabbath commandment.

“Today” if we hear His voice, we should not harden our hearts to God’s Word. We should not put off to another day to obey God. We should not follow the same path of rebellion and disobedience. Hebrews 4:6 Hebrews 4:11

I pray this helps.

 

[Cornelius8L]

No. Your commentary is not matching the scriptures.

Today does not all of the sudden become the seventh day Sabbath and the scriptures do not say this. There are two rests being referred to in the this passage, the Sabbath rest (commandment) and God’s rest. We enter into Gods rest when we cease our works, like God did on the seventh day. (Sabbath Exodus 20:10)

Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

When does God cease from His works? This very passage tells us which is a reference to creation Genesis 2:1-3 and to Exodus 20

Hebrews 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;

Can that be anymore clear?

Let’s see if the scriptures say “today” is now the seventh day Sabbath.

Hebrews 4:7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

So today is not turned into the seventh day Sabbath again, in very clear easy to read scriptures. No need to add anything to God’s Word.

Today means exactly as stated “today” as it has been said Do not harden your hearts. Which does not say today is now the seventh day Sabbath,

This is a repeat from David Pslams 95 and from Hebrews 3

Hebrews 3:15 Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion.”

Pslams 95:7-8 Today, if you will hear His voice:
8 “Do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion,

There is a warning in Hebrews 4:6 that the Israelites did not enter into God’s rest because they disobeyed? What they disobeyed was the Sabbath Ezekiel 20:13

Which is why the Sabbath rest (commandment- Exodus 20:8-11) remains for the people of God.

The word rest here in v. 9 means a keeping of the Sabbath which is why it starts with the word ”remains” instead of the new Sabbath is now today, which seems what you are trying to insert.

Hebrews 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God;

a Sabbath rest
σαββατισμὸς (sabbatismos)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 4520: A keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest. From a derivative of sabbaton; a 'sabbatism', i.e. the repose of Christianity.


The Sabbath is the seventh day according to God. Exodus 20:10

We should let the scriptures interpret scriptures. There is no scripture that says the seventh day is now “today” or we can break any of God’s commandments, including the Sabbath commandment.

“Today” if we hear His voice, we should not harden our hearts to God’s Word. We should not put off to another day to obey God. We should not follow the same path of rebellion and disobedience. Hebrews 4:6 Hebrews 4:11

I pray this helps.

The book of Hebrews is a letter. The verse that comes after explains the verse before it, especially in the context of v1-v11. You merely extract a few verses to explain their OT meanings and incidents. Hebrews 4:7 has a word called "again DESIGNATES (ὁρίζει)," which means there is a change. Paul used the same writing style to discuss circumcision and Melchizedek.

You merely explain the OT disobedience by Ezekiel 20:13 in Hebrews 4:6 but did not explain the meaning of entering My rest, mentioned in v5. My rest is the end of wilderness rest related to Joshua v8, not sabbath rest.

What remains (v6) is not the commandment, but rest by believing (v3) and it is being redefined (v7). V9 “remains” is the same as v6 explaining v1 “let us be careful that none of you be deemed to have fallen short of it (repeated in v11 as a conclusion).”

Sabbatismos is singular. Not multiple sabbaths. “Today Sabbath” is singular.

We should read the scripture by its flow, especially the NT letters. No extracting a few parts of it and then inserting own ideas. The whole v1-11 context is talking about the seventh day has become now “today.”

The rebellion occurred because people refused to change just as the Israeli refused to change from worshiping their previous idols and failing to rest (Ezekiel 20:7-24). We would be rebelling against God if we refused to enter rest by believing [magnifying 4th commandment as Jesus did to the others] (v3) and keeping what is fading (2 Corinthians 3:11) as an idol.

“when the perfect comes, the partial passes away (1 Corinthians 13:10)” explains v8.

Pray this helps.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The book of Hebrews is a letter. The verse that comes after explains the verse before it, especially in the context of v1-v11. You merely extract a few verses to explain their OT meanings and incidents. Hebrews 4:7 has a word called "again DESIGNATES (ὁρίζει)," which means there is a change. Paul used the same writing style to discuss circumcision and Melchizedek.

You merely explain the OT disobedience by Ezekiel 20:13 in Hebrews 4:6 but did not explain the meaning of entering My rest, mentioned in v5. My rest is the end of wilderness rest related to Joshua v8, not sabbath rest.

What remains (v6) is not the commandment, but rest by believing (v3) and it is being redefined (v7). V9 “remains” is the same as v6 explaining v1 “let us be careful that none of you be deemed to have fallen short of it (repeated in v11 as a conclusion).”

Sabbatismos is singular. Not multiple sabbaths. “Today Sabbath” is singular.

We should read the scripture by its flow, especially the NT letters. No extracting a few parts of it and then inserting own ideas. The whole v1-11 context is talking about the seventh day has become now “today.”

The rebellion occurred because people refused to change just as the Israeli refused to change from worshiping their previous idols and failing to rest (Ezekiel 20:7-24). We would be rebelling against God if we refused to enter rest by believing [magnifying 4th commandment as Jesus did to the others] (v3) and keeping what is fading (2 Corinthians 3:11) as an idol.

“when the perfect comes, the partial passes away (1 Corinthians 13:10)” explains v8.

Pray this helps.

Hebrews 4:7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said: “Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.” (This is a direct quote from Psalms 95)

These words were said before and here is what it is referring and being re-stated verbatim. Nothing about changing the seventh day Sabbath to "today"

Here is the quote in reference to Hebrews 4:7:

Psalms 95:7-8 Today, if you will hear His voice:
8 “Do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion,

Where exactly does it say the Sabbath commandment is now "today"

There is nowhere in this entire passage that says the Sabbath is now today. Uness you can point out specifically where is says the Sabbath is now "today" and we no longer have to keep the Sabbath commandment on the seventh day the way God commanded. We cannot improve on the Word of God.

Deuteronomy 4:2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.

 

[Cornelius8L]

Hebrews 4:7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said: “Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.” (This is a direct quote from Psalms 95)

These words were said before and here is what it is referring and being re-stated verbatim. Nothing about changing the seventh day Sabbath to "today"

Here is the quote in reference to Hebrews 4:7:

Psalms 95:7-8 Today, if you will hear His voice:
8 “Do not harden your hearts, as in the rebellion,

Where exactly does it say the Sabbath commandment is now "today"

There is nowhere in this entire passage that says the Sabbath is now today. Uness you can point out specifically where is says the Sabbath is now "today" and we no longer have to keep the Sabbath commandment on the seventh day the way God commanded. We cannot improve on the Word of God.

Deuteronomy 4:2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.

“Law written in our minds and hearts,” “I will shake the heavens and the earth,” and “circumcise your heart,” were all said much earlier before Paul referred them much later, indicating changes. (Jeremiah 31:33, Haggai 2:6, Deuteronomy 10:16)

Hebrews 4:7 emphasizes “Today,” and v8 “if…, God would not have spoken later about another day.”

Besides Hebrews 4:7-8, many verses in the scripture have pointed Sabbath commandment is now “today.” When Paul said every day alike (Romans 14:5), you cannot accept this "every day" includes Saturday because it contradicts your understanding of the commandments (which I understand where you came from.)

Nowhere in the scripture said the commandments refer only to the Ten. Jesus quoted from the Ten many times but did not say the commandments refer to the Ten. (2 Corinthians 3:7-18)

And all Ten have magnified, long time ago. The ark moved from earth to heaven to prove this point, magnified. For example, “You shall have no other gods before Me (Exodus 20).” And “I have said, ‘You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High (Psalms 82:6, John 10:34).’” – All children of God are gods, and why “You shall have no other gods before Me”? Jesus explained it here:

Matthew 23:8-10
But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Christ.​

Setting human teachings before God’s words is breaking the 1st Commandment. Human teachings example: a set of traditions, ideas & interpretations from preachers or human leaders, denying that Holy Spirit can teach (1 John 2:27).

I can even say this: Going to church to listen to a preacher's teaching is defying the Words of God and breaking the 1st commandment by having the preacher before God. This tradition testified to the world that Holy Spirit CAN NOT teach.

2 John 1:9
Anyone who runs ahead without remaining in the teaching of Christ does not have God. Whoever remains in His teaching has both the Father and the Son.​

Unless you were saying going to church, to discuss the truth, not one-sided, having someone as a leader to teach whom everyone deemed appointed by God is breaking the 1st Commandment. Both Moses and Aaron prefigure Jesus, and Jesus lives forever as our leader. We do not need a human leader because Jesus lives (Hebrews 7:24).

I’m explaining the 1st commandment to point out that all TEN changed. If Adam and Eve left the Garden of Eden clothed, no one should be naked again like how they were first created but with a white robe.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

“Law written in our minds and hearts,” “I will shake the heavens and the earth,” and “circumcise your heart,” were all said much earlier before Paul referred them much later, indicating changes. (Jeremiah 31:33, Haggai 2:6, Deuteronomy 10:16)

Hebrews 4:7 emphasizes “Today,” and v8 “if…, God would not have spoken later about another day.”

Besides Hebrews 4:7-8, many verses in the scripture have pointed Sabbath commandment is now “today.” When Paul said every day alike (Romans 14:5), you cannot accept this "every day" includes Saturday because it contradicts your understanding of the commandments (which I understand where you came from.)

Nowhere in the scripture said the commandments refer only to the Ten. Jesus quoted from the Ten many times but did not say the commandments refer to the Ten. (2 Corinthians 3:7-18)

And all Ten have magnified, long time ago. The ark moved from earth to heaven to prove this point, magnified. For example, “You shall have no other gods before Me (Exodus 20).” And “I have said, ‘You are gods; you are all sons of the Most High (Psalms 82:6, John 10:34).’” – All children of God are gods, and why “You shall have no other gods before Me”? Jesus explained it here:

Matthew 23:8-10
But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, and you are all brothers. And do not call anyone on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. Nor are you to be called instructors, for you have one Instructor, the Christ.​

Setting human teachings before God’s words is breaking the 1st Commandment. Human teachings example: a set of traditions, ideas & interpretations from preachers or human leaders, denying that Holy Spirit can teach (1 John 2:27).

I can even say this: Going to church to listen to a preacher's teaching is defying the Words of God and breaking the 1st commandment by having the preacher before God. This tradition testified to the world that Holy Spirit CAN NOT teach.

2 John 1:9
Anyone who runs ahead without remaining in the teaching of Christ does not have God. Whoever remains in His teaching has both the Father and the Son.​

Unless you were saying going to church, to discuss the truth, not one-sided, having someone as a leader to teach whom everyone deemed appointed by God is breaking the 1st Commandment. Both Moses and Aaron prefigure Jesus, and Jesus lives forever as our leader. We do not need a human leader because Jesus lives (Hebrews 7:24).

I’m explaining the 1st commandment to point out that all TEN changed. If Adam and Eve left the Garden of Eden clothed, no one should be naked again like how they were first created but with a white robe.

In Hebrews 4:8, another day" is the "day" of David, as Hebrews 4:7 makes evident. No where is all of Hebrews or all of scripture says “today” is now the seventh day Sabbath. Unless you can produce this verse, which you haven’t I would suggest we not try to change the scriptures with our thoughts, ideas and opinions because only God’s Word is what counts and we should allow Him to speak to us though His Word, changing His Word has some warnings and sadly this will produce not following God. Gods will for us is clear though out scripture, if we just allow God to speak to us through His scriptures just the way it is written. People seem to go out of their way to make the Sabbath commandment say anything but what it says Exodus 20:8-11. Keeping the Sabbath is the one that God said is a sign between Him and His people so go figure. Ezekiel 20:12, Ezekiel 20:20

Magnify the commandments does not mean change. It means to make greater not smaller and the example of this is in Matthew 5:19-30

Jesus said murder begins in our hearts- meaning it starts with our thoughts. Jesus wants our thoughts and feelings changed from the inside out so if we remove the thoughts of anger and contempt to love and compassion “thou shalt not murder” will automatically be kept. Jesus is not advocating or teaching anywhere in the entire scripture that the Ten Commandments were changed or altered, so we should stop tying as well. Jesus taught we should keep and teach others to keep the commandments, and has warnings for those who teach against the commandments. Matthew 5:19.

There is no scripture that says we can’t or shouldn’t go to church. Should we call Pastors Fathers like they are equal to God or go to them for the forgiveness sins? Absolutely not scriptures make this clear, but Pastors who are preaching the Word of God is not against any scriptures in fact, its the opposite- Acts 18:4, Acts 13:44, Acts 13:42, etc. and its up to us as individuals to read the scriptures for ourselves so if our pastors are teaching something different than the Word of God we should be looking for new Pastors. God does have a church, but it is a remnant and His church keeps the commandments of God and faith in Jesus. Revelation 14:12, Revelation 12:17, Revelation 22:14-15

Anyway, we will probably just have to agree to disagree and thats okay.

God bless.

 

[Cornelius8L]

In Hebrews 4:8, another day" is the "day" of David, as Hebrews 4:7 makes evident. No where is all of Hebrews or all of scripture says “today” is now the seventh day Sabbath. Unless you can produce this verse, which you haven’t I would suggest we not try to change the scriptures with our thoughts, ideas and opinions because only God’s Word is what counts and we should allow Him to speak to us though His Word, changing His Word has some warnings and sadly this will produce not following God. Gods will for us is clear though out scripture, if we just allow God to speak to us through His scriptures just the way it is written. People seem to go out of their way to make the Sabbath commandment say anything but what it says Exodus 20:8-11. Keeping the Sabbath is the one that God said is a sign between Him and His people so go figure. Ezekiel 20:12, Ezekiel 20:20

Magnify the commandments does not mean change. It means to make greater not smaller and the example of this is in Matthew 5:19-30

Jesus said murder begins in our hearts- meaning it starts with our thoughts. Jesus wants our thoughts and feelings changed from the inside out so if we remove the thoughts of anger and contempt to love and compassion “thou shalt not murder” will automatically be kept. Jesus is not advocating or teaching anywhere in the entire scripture that the Ten Commandments were changed or altered, so we should stop tying as well. Jesus taught we should keep and teach others to keep the commandments, and has warnings for those who teach against the commandments. Matthew 5:19.

There is no scripture that says we can’t or shouldn’t go to church. Should we call Pastors Fathers like they are equal to God or go to them for the forgiveness sins? Absolutely not scriptures make this clear, but Pastors who are preaching the Word of God is not against any scriptures in fact, its the opposite- Acts 18:4, Acts 13:44, Acts 13:42, etc. and its up to us as individuals to read the scriptures for ourselves so if our pastors are teaching something different than the Word of God we should be looking for new Pastors. God does have a church, but it is a remnant and His church keeps the commandments of God and faith in Jesus. Revelation 14:12, Revelation 12:17, Revelation 22:14-15

Anyway, we will probably just have to agree to disagree and thats okay.

God bless.

We all know omnipotent God can abolish priesthood in OT before He finger writes the TEN. Instead, He instituted priesthood to break the Sabbath commandment as a testimony for us since the beginning. We should not take the verse out of context from Hebrews 4, denying the scripture that says “today,” and lie, saying there is no such verse. We should not reject the definition of “everyday” in Romans 14:5 by inserting our ideas and opinions too. As you said, God’s word is what counts, but you are the one who rejected God’s words by refusing to read Hebrews 4 by its context.

Actually, your practice made the 4th commandment smaller. Not us.

OT Sabbath commandments have many laws and instructions. Believers are required to go to the temple and make weekly sacrifices (Numbers 28:9). The apostles have even kept the requirement of the sabbath walking distance (Acts 1:12) before the resurrection of Jesus. Your current Sabbath practice made the 4th commandment smaller by removing all of these. And since nowhere in the scripture provides instructions on what to do on Saturday, you have set up a worship tradition. But we, on the other hand, follow the scripture that magnifies the 4th in spirit and truth every day, offering spiritual sacrifices in His temple every day as per God’s commandment. The way we keep the Sabbath makes it greater. Your practice makes it smaller, unfortunately.

God’s church is where no one has authority over one another. Is your church leaders having authority over you?

Matthew 20:25
And Jesus having summoned them, said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them, and the great ones exercise authority over them.​

I can see God’s finger-written commandments are now in heaven. God is Spirit (John 4:24), using His spiritual finger to write on stones. Here, the spiritual words came into physical form. Then, it went back to heaven, where it belonged. Similarly, the Word came to the flesh (John 1:14) and then was raised by the Spirit (Romans 8:11) back to heaven. But the latter comes with much glory.

God’s spiritual finger writings on earth must return to the spiritual heaven [magnified].

#5C + Christ and Church (that obeys God) are father and mother. We honor Christ and the Church who walks the will of God (Mark 3:35), and we inherit the promise (Ephesians 6:2).
#6C + Not hating brothers who walk the will of God/Christ (Mark 3:35, 1 John 3:15). Jesus is also our brother (Hebrews 2:11).
#7C + Not departing from God/Christ (Hosea 1:2, James 4:4)
#8C + Not stealing the words of God/Christ (Jeremiah 23:30).
#9C + Not Lying against those who showed us mercy (Luke 10:36-37). God also showed us mercy (Romans 9:16).
#10C + Acts 8:18-22, James 3:1-2, 2 Corinthians 11:12-13 (Not coveting for supremacy or the gifts of others). Not coveting for the position of Jesus as the head of the Church (Matthew 23:8-11, 1 John 2:18).

Since all #5-10 points to Christ when they returned to heaven magnified, #1-4 would reflect the same, magnified.

We have a reasonable Savior who understands emergencies may happen on the Sabbath, for example if our neighbor has a medical emergency on the Sabbath and needs to be taken unto the hospital, not a sin. If our neighbor asks us to mow their lawn on the Sabbath, thats a sin, because it can wait until Sunday a day God deemed for work Exodus 20:9 or wait until another working day.

The scripture does not condemn us for not going to the physical church. We can't add our own teachings and condemn it as a sin.

Anyway, I pray for God’s wisdom with us. God bless.

 

[Leaf473]

...I pray for God’s wisdom with us. God bless

Amen!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

We all know omnipotent God can abolish priesthood in OT before He finger writes the TEN. Instead, He instituted priesthood to break the Sabbath commandment as a testimony for us since the beginning. We should not take the verse out of context from Hebrews 4, denying the scripture that says “today,” and lie, saying there is no such verse. We should not reject the definition of “everyday” in Romans 14:5 by inserting our ideas and opinions too. As you said, God’s word is what counts, but you are the one who rejected God’s words by refusing to read Hebrews 4 by its context.

Actually, your practice made the 4th commandment smaller. Not us.

OT Sabbath commandments have many laws and instructions. Believers are required to go to the temple and make weekly sacrifices (Numbers 28:9). The apostles have even kept the requirement of the sabbath walking distance (Acts 1:12) before the resurrection of Jesus. Your current Sabbath practice made the 4th commandment smaller by removing all of these. And since nowhere in the scripture provides instructions on what to do on Saturday, you have set up a worship tradition. But we, on the other hand, follow the scripture that magnifies the 4th in spirit and truth every day, offering spiritual sacrifices in His temple every day as per God’s commandment. The way we keep the Sabbath makes it greater. Your practice makes it smaller, unfortunately.

God’s church is where no one has authority over one another. Is your church leaders having authority over you?

Matthew 20:25
And Jesus having summoned them, said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles exercise lordship over them, and the great ones exercise authority over them.​

I can see God’s finger-written commandments are now in heaven. God is Spirit (John 4:24), using His spiritual finger to write on stones. Here, the spiritual words came into physical form. Then, it went back to heaven, where it belonged. Similarly, the Word came to the flesh (John 1:14) and then was raised by the Spirit (Romans 8:11) back to heaven. But the latter comes with much glory.

God’s spiritual finger writings on earth must return to the spiritual heaven [magnified].

#5C + Christ and Church (that obeys God) are father and mother. We honor Christ and the Church who walks the will of God (Mark 3:35), and we inherit the promise (Ephesians 6:2).
#6C + Not hating brothers who walk the will of God/Christ (Mark 3:35, 1 John 3:15). Jesus is also our brother (Hebrews 2:11).
#7C + Not departing from God/Christ (Hosea 1:2, James 4:4)
#8C + Not stealing the words of God/Christ (Jeremiah 23:30).
#9C + Not Lying against those who showed us mercy (Luke 10:36-37). God also showed us mercy (Romans 9:16).
#10C + Acts 8:18-22, James 3:1-2, 2 Corinthians 11:12-13 (Not coveting for supremacy or the gifts of others). Not coveting for the position of Jesus as the head of the Church (Matthew 23:8-11, 1 John 2:18).

Since all #5-10 points to Christ when they returned to heaven magnified, #1-4 would reflect the same, magnified.


The scripture does not condemn us for not going to the physical church. We can't add our own teachings and condemn it as a sin.

Anyway, I pray for God’s wisdom with us. God bless.

Like I said we will have to agree to disagree and this gets all sorted out soon enough. Take care.

 

[Cornelius8L]

Like I said we will have to agree to disagree and this gets all sorted out soon enough. Take care.

The Bible raised its objection. “I felt it necessary to write and urge you to contend earnestly for the faith entrusted once and for all to the saints. (Jude 1:3)” All believers must continue contending for the truth, though time-consuming. If we cannot conclude them, the discussion can prolong, and we can pray for God’s wisdom to guide us. This thought is consistent throughout the scripture, but you are not aligned.

If everyone behaved as you did at the council of Jerusalem in Acts 15, the Church would have divided/fallen back then. If you care so much yet cannot answer our tough questions, you should involve your-church-leaders to discuss this matter. Or are you among the leaders?

You cannot cover your ears when facing tough questions and then, begin stoning others like how they did to Stephen in the past (Acts 7:57-58). Since we respond by sharing more insights proving you shrunk the 4th Commandment instead and lie against the scripture, you should repent if you can’t defend yourself further.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The Bible raised its objection. “I felt it necessary to write and urge you to contend earnestly for the faith entrusted once and for all to the saints. (Jude 1:3)” All believers must continue contending for the truth, though time-consuming. If we cannot conclude them, the discussion can prolong, and we can pray for God’s wisdom to guide us. This thought is consistent throughout the scripture, but you are not aligned.

If everyone behaved as you did at the council of Jerusalem in Acts 15, the Church would have divided/fallen back then. If you care so much yet cannot answer our tough questions, you should involve your-church-leaders to discuss this matter. Or are you among the leaders?

You cannot cover your ears when facing tough questions and then, begin stoning others like how they did to Stephen in the past (Acts 7:57-58). Since we respond by sharing more insights proving you shrunk the 4th Commandment instead and lie against the scripture, you should repent if you can’t defend yourself further.

The saints keep the commandments of God.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

 

[Cornelius8L]

The saints keep the commandments of God.

Revelation 14:12 Here is the patience of the saints; here are those who keep the commandments of God and the faith of Jesus.

True, they keep it, but the question is how they keep it. The TEN on earth or the TEN in heaven? TEN changed from an earthly state to a heavenly state. The body of Jesus changed before being raised to heaven. TEN must be magnified, proven by the scripture, and not shrink.

Revelation 22:5 There will be no more night in the city, and they will have no need for the light of a lamp or of the sun. For the Lord God will shine on them, and they will reign forever and ever.

There will be no next day in the city, only “Today.”

 

[SabbathBlessings]

True, they keep it, but the question is how they keep it. The TEN on earth or the TEN in heaven? TEN changed from an earthly state to a heavenly state. The body of Jesus changed before being raised to heaven. TEN must be magnified, proven by the scripture, and not shrink.

Revelation 22:5 There will be no more night in the city, and they will have no need for the light of a lamp or of the sun. For the Lord God will shine on them, and they will reign forever and ever.

There will be no next day in the city, only “Today.”

God did not give us a commandment that says we don’t have to keep now, just wait until heaven. Just like we should not murder now, or worship other gods now. The test is now, there is no third chance.