Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian [moved thread]

[SabbathBlessings]

Why should I stick with the scriptures in Hebrews 3 and 4? Wasn't the historical wilderness account in Psalm 95 reiterated, in even more detail, in the OT passages I quoted? But I guess the OT passages were too tough to reconcile with your narrative?

You see, SB, I'm already inside your head. This is the reason I didn't quote that portion of Psalm 95 from Hebrews. I was pretty sure you would avoid the OT passages. But why should I? David didn't when he wrote the psalm. All he had to go by were the OT scriptures, so why shouldn't I use them?

It's crystal clear from the OT that the land was was God's rest. After all, God GAVE the sabbath to the Israelites in Ex 16:29, just like he gave his land to them. Therefore, the writer to Hebrews would have understood Psalm 95, which he quoted in part, the same way I do. For he, too, would have drawn from his knowledge from the same OT scriptures I did (and perhaps others as well, which is all he had when he pennned the book.

But it's good to know that you think that resting in Christ only happens on the 7th day of the sabbath. So where does that leave everyone on the other six days?

I can promise you, you are not inside my head.

Is this not all references to the OT? Ten Reasons I'm a Sabbatarian [moved thread]

In Hebrews 4:8, another day" is the "day" of David, as Hebrews 4:7 makes evident. The fact that in the days of David and Solomon, Israel was in full possession of the land of Canaan, makes it clear that the "rest" here referred to was not the literal occupation of Canaan, but the glorious role God intended for Israel. The generation of Israel that left Egypt "entered not in "to the literal Land of Promise" Hebrews 4:6 and those who did enter into literal Canaan never, as a nation, entered into the spiritual "rest" God purposed for them.

We can only go by the scriptures and this is what the scriptures say:

Hebrews 4:9 There remains, then, a Sabbath-rest for the people of God; 10 for anyone who enters God’s rest also rests from their works, just as God did from his. 11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will perish by following their example of disobedience.

When does God rest from His works?

Hebrews 4:4 For He has spoken in a certain place of the seventh day in this way: “And God rested on the seventh day from all His works”;

Which is a direct quote from Genesis 2:1-3 and Exodus 20:8-11, This truly cannot be anymore clearer.

Looks like we will have to agree to disagree. I do wish you the best though in seeking His Word.

 

[Doran]

You might want to ask yourself this same question. You said Hebrews 1 said the Sabbath commandment is ceremonial

Man...you just can't help yourself can you? I didn't say that. I said if the [entire] Law is a shadow, how much more would the 4th commandment be, especially since it is ceremonial in nature.

By the way in the Hebrews 10 passage, it talks about how the same RITUALISTIC sacrifices were a REMINDER of our sins. Do you remember how the 4th begins to read?
Do you remember how the ritual of the Lord's Supper is to be done in remembrance of Jesus? Can you see any parallels here? Can you connect the dots? Did you ever look up the definition of "ritual"?

And in my post about Jesus being a type of sabbath, I never said he was our weekly sabbath. In fact I went out of my way to make the point that where there are definite parallels between the sabbath and Christ, there were also differences. And one of those differences is that Jesus is our rest 24/7. I said another difference with Jesus is that He invited sinners to rest in him, whereas the law commands rest, etc.

You just don't read opposing positions. Your mind is like a vice. It's closed in on your presuppositions and you're not going to open that vice to let anyone's arguments in, no matter how cogent and biblical they are because they threaten your presuppositions.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Man...you just can't help yourself can you? I didn't say that. I said if the [entire] Law is a shadow, how much more would the 4th commandment be, especially since it is ceremonial in nature.

By the way in the Hebrews 10 passage, it talks about how the same RITUALISTIC sacrifices were a REMINDER of our sins. Do you remember how the 4th begins to read?
Do you remember how the ritual of the Lord's Supper is to be done in remembrance of Jesus? Can you see any parallels here? Can you connect the dots? Did you ever look up the definition of "ritual"?

And in my post about Jesus being a type of sabbath, I never said he was our weekly sabbath. In fact I went out of my way to make the point that where there are definite parallels between the sabbath and Christ, there were also differences. And one of those differences is that Jesus is our rest 24/7. I said another difference with Jesus is that He invited sinners to rest in him, whereas the law commands rest, etc.

You just don't read opposing positions. Your mind is like a vice. It's closed in on your presuppositions and you're not going to open that vice to let anyone's arguments in, no matter how cogent and biblical they are because they threaten your presuppositions.

Hebrews 10 is all about animal sacrifice- it correlates with Colossians 2:14-17 and has nothing to do with the commandments of God. Does is say we can now worship other gods? Or bow to images? or vain God's holy name? Or break the Sabbath commandment? Or break any of the Ten Commandments? It's about animal sacrifices not being sufficient to forgive sins. Jesus became our sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we repent and turn from sin. Acts 2:38 The Ten Commandments is what points out sin 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7 and what we will be judged on. James 2:10-12.

 

[Doran]

I can promise you, you are not inside my head

Oh...but I am. I knew you would likely appeal to Hebrews whereas I did what David and the writer of Hebrews did by appealing to the OT scriptures. This is precisely why I didn't quote Psalm 95 out of Hebrews.

And there is no "day of David". David didn't lead the people into the land. You're a few hundred years off.

Have a nice evening...

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Oh...but I am. I knew you would likely appeal to Hebrews whereas I did what David and the writer of Hebrews did by appealing to the OT scriptures. This is precisely why I didn't quote Psalm 95 out of Hebrews.

And there is no "day of David". David didn't lead the people into the land. You're a few hundred years off.

Have a nice evening...

Its a reference to David that Hebrews 4 makes....not sure if we are reading the same scriptures. Which is a reference to Psalms 95. I never said David led the Israelites into the promise land, please quote me saying that.

Hebrews 4:7 again He designates a certain day, saying in David, “Today,” after such a long time, as it has been said:

“Today, if you will hear His voice,
Do not harden your hearts.”

This is a good warning and Ezekiel 20:13 explains what they were disobedient to.

Hope you have a nice evening too and take care.

 

[Doran]

Its a reference to David that Hebrews 4 makes....not sure if we are reading the same scriptures. Which is a reference to Psalms 95. I never said David led the Israelites into the promise land, please quote me saying that.

Ahh...you protest too much. You don't like it when I put words in your mouth, do you.

And, no, we're not reading the same scriptures. All the OT passages I quoted clearly said that an entire generation of Israelites did not enter the land, which means they never entered God's rest. However, the later generation did find rest in the land, as other OT scriptures also affirmed.

 

[Cornelius8L]

The Lord spoke directly to many of the Prophets as He did with Isaiah:

Isaiah 6:1 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and the train of His robe filled the temple. 2 Above it stood seraphim; each one had six wings: with two he covered his face, with two he covered his feet, and with two he flew. 3 And one cried to another and said:

“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord of hosts;
The whole earth is full of His glory!”

4 And the posts of the door were shaken by the voice of him who cried out, and the house was filled with smoke.

5 So I said:

“Woe is me, for I am undone!
Because I am a man of unclean lips,
And I dwell in the midst of a people of unclean lips;
For my eyes have seen the King,
The Lord of hosts.”

6 Then one of the seraphim flew to me, having in his hand a live coal which he had taken with the tongs from the altar. 7 And he touched my mouth with it, and said:

“Behold, this has touched your lips;
Your iniquity is taken away,
And your sin purged.”

8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying:

“Whom shall I send,
And who will go for Us?”

Then I said, “Here am I! Send me.”

9 And He said, “Go, and tell this people:

‘Keep on hearing, but do not understand;
Keep on seeing, but do not perceive.’

10 “Make the heart of this people dull,
And their ears heavy,
And shut their eyes;
Lest they see with their eyes,
And hear with their ears,
And understand with their heart,
And return and be healed.”

11 Then I said, “Lord, how long?”

And He answered:

“Until the cities are laid waste and without inhabitant,
The houses are without a man,
The land is utterly desolate,
12 The Lord has removed men far away,
And the forsaken places are many in the midst of the land.
13 But yet a tenth will be in it,
And will return and be for consuming,
As a terebinth tree or as an oak,
Whose stump remains when it is cut down.
So the holy seed shall be its stump.”

These verses are parables. Even from the very first verse: In the year that King (Leader) Uzziah (Lord is my strength) died (was disregarded), the description of the throne, seraphim, and response of Isaiah all have indirect meanings, then by v9 onwards - It explains a situation where His believers no longer trust in God’s strength, they misunderstood His message (Matthew 22:29). Jesus quoted from this chapter when He spoke parables (Mark 4:12).

An example of understanding the scripture and power of God is Jesus using the bronze serpent to represent Himself (John 3:14). Also, Paul said Hagar and Sarah represent the covenants (Galatians 4:21-31). Anyway, if you are not used to reading the scripture this way, hard for us to go deeper as Jesus and Paul did. So, let’s skip it for now.

How will true worshippers be worshipping the Lord in Heaven?

Isaiah 66:23 And from one Sabbath to another,
All flesh shall come to worship before Me,” says the Lord.

Back to Isaiah 66.

Matthew 11:11-12
Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has risen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet even the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subject to violence, and the violent lay claim to it.

Did Jesus mean John the Baptist failed to go to heaven? I don’t think so. So, this heaven is not referring to the afterlife heaven. Moreover,

Luke 17:20-21
When asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God will not come with observable signs. Nor will people say, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘There it is.’ For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”​

Isaiah 66:21 “And I will select some of them as priests and Levites,” says the LORD. – This is talking about us, the NT priests.

Isaiah 66:15-16 talks about WOG, fire (Jeremiah 23:29), explaining the light shines over darkness (John 1:5). The caption was not there in the original text.

Isaiah 66:23 New Moon and Sabbath here have indirect meanings, not the literal afterlife new moon and Sabbath. Even Apostle John not knowing what is going to happen to us next.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. ​

We know Sabbath rest refers to the creation rest (Hebrews 4:10). But if “heaven and earth” point to the kingdom (Hebrews 12:26-28), creation rest means stop creating "kingdom", unlike the believers in 1 Corinthians 1:12, which causes division and setting up “other kingdoms.” The true kingdom of God is recognized by His teachings (Law), and it is a place of rest (Isaiah 28:12). We do not contradict the complete truth, which results in creating another kingdom (unable to rest). But your understanding of Hebrews 4:10 contradicts Jesus’s statement of God still working (John 5:17). Entering Sabbath, the land of rest is where God stops His creation work, not your explanation of non-secular works. For example: saving an ox from a pit during Sabbath is non-secular work (Luke 14:5). This is why your sabbath commandment teachings contradict many other verses or incidents.

John 3:12
If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?​

We pray for God’s wisdom with us.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

These verses are parables. Even from the very first verse: In the year that King (Leader) Uzziah (Lord is my strength) died (was disregarded), the description of the throne, seraphim, and response of Isaiah all have indirect meanings, then by v9 onwards - It explains a situation where His believers no longer trust in God’s strength, they misunderstood His message (Matthew 22:29). Jesus quoted from this chapter when He spoke parables (Mark 4:12).

An example of understanding the scripture and power of God is Jesus using the bronze serpent to represent Himself (John 3:14). Also, Paul said Hagar and Sarah represent the covenants (Galatians 4:21-31). Anyway, if you are not used to reading the scripture this way, hard for us to go deeper as Jesus and Paul did. So, let’s skip it for now.


Back to Isaiah 66.

Matthew 11:11-12
Truly I tell you, among those born of women there has risen no one greater than John the Baptist. Yet even the least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. From the days of John the Baptist until now, the kingdom of heaven has been subject to violence, and the violent lay claim to it.

Did Jesus mean John the Baptist failed to go to heaven? I don’t think so. So, this heaven is not referring to the afterlife heaven. Moreover,

Luke 17:20-21
When asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The kingdom of God will not come with observable signs. Nor will people say, ‘Look, here it is,’ or ‘There it is.’ For you see, the kingdom of God is in your midst.”​

Isaiah 66:21 “And I will select some of them as priests and Levites,” says the LORD. – This is talking about us, the NT priests.

Isaiah 66:15-16 talks about WOG, fire (Jeremiah 23:29), explaining the light shines over darkness (John 1:5). The caption was not there in the original text.

Isaiah 66:23 New Moon and Sabbath here have indirect meanings, not the literal afterlife new moon and Sabbath. Even Apostle John not knowing what is going to happen to us next.

1 John 3:2 Beloved, we are now children of God, and what we will be has not yet been revealed. ​

We know Sabbath rest refers to the creation rest (Hebrews 4:10). But if “heaven and earth” point to the kingdom (Hebrews 12:26-28), creation rest means stop creating "kingdom", unlike the believers in 1 Corinthians 1:12, which causes division and setting up “other kingdoms.” The true kingdom of God is recognized by His teachings (Law), and it is a place of rest (Isaiah 28:12). We do not contradict the complete truth, which results in creating another kingdom (unable to rest). But your understanding of Hebrews 4:10 contradicts Jesus’s statement of God still working (John 5:17). Entering Sabbath, the land of rest is where God stops His creation work, not your explanation of non-secular works. For example: saving an ox from a pit during Sabbath is non-secular work (Luke 14:5). This is why your sabbath commandment teachings contradict many other verses or incidents.

John 3:12
If I have told you about earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you about heavenly things?​

We pray for God’s wisdom with us.

No, Isaiah 6 is not a parable.

This is what Jesus said about rescuing an animal out of a ditch….

Mark 3:4 Then He said to them, “Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they kept silent.

We have a reasonable Savior who understands emergencies may happen on the Sabbath, for example if our neighbor has a medical emergency on the Sabbath and needs to be taken unto the hospital, not a sin. If our neighbor asks us to mow their lawn on the Sabbath, thats a sin, because it can wait until Sunday a day God deemed for work Exodus 20:9 or wait until another working day.

Yes, there are many heavenly things we don’t understand, but that does not negate our moral obligation to obey on earth now the things God commanded us like the Ten Commandments, which includes the Sabbath commandment. If God can’t trust us to obey His instructions now, I would not count on Him trusting us with heavenly things. God shows us small taste of what will be happening in heaven, like He has revealed Sabbath worship continues. Isaiah 66:22-23. He has also revealed the fruit a saved person now. Revelation 14:12. The better question I would be asking is how can we keep all of the commandments of God. Seems like a lot of energy instead goes into how to disprove the 4th commandment.

 

[Leaf473]

In the year that King (Leader) Uzziah (Lord is my strength) died (was disregarded)...

Very interesting! Isaiah may not even have been in the temple, he may have had a vision in which he saw the Lord in the temple.

I think Ezekiel has a similar experience when he sees the glory of the Lord depart from the temple, though he is in Babylon at the time.

And in Revelation, John may be having a vision of the dragon pursuing the remnant Church that keeps the commandments of God, etc.

 

[Doran]

The Rest in The Land of Canaan:

Deut 25:19
19 When the LORD your God gives you rest from all the enemies around you in the land he is giving you to possess as an inheritance, you shall blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven. Do not forget!
NIV

Even that rest was to be remembered!

To be sure, the rest into which Joshua led Israel was strictly temporal, physical and natural. It was not the substance. Whereas the rest of the greater Joshua (Jesus) is spiritual, supernatural and eternal.

 

[Doran]

No, Isaiah 6 is not a parable.

This is what Jesus said about rescuing an animal out of a ditch….

Mark 3:4 Then He said to them, “Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do good or to do evil, to save life or to kill?” But they kept silent.

We have a reasonable Savior who understands emergencies may happen on the Sabbath, for example if our neighbor has a medical emergency on the Sabbath and needs to be taken unto the hospital, not a sin. If our neighbor asks us to mow their lawn on the Sabbath, thats a sin, because it can wait until Sunday a day God deemed for work Exodus 20:9 or wait until another working day.

Yes, there are many heavenly things we don’t understand, but that does not negate our moral obligation to obey on earth now the things God commanded us like the Ten Commandments, which includes the Sabbath commandment. If God can’t trust us to obey His instructions now, I would not count on Him trusting us with heavenly things. God shows us small taste of what will be happening in heaven, like He has revealed Sabbath worship continues. Isaiah 66:22-23. He has also revealed the fruit a saved person now. Revelation 14:12. The better question I would be asking is how can we keep all of the commandments of God. Seems like a lot of energy instead goes into how to disprove the 4th commandment.

(emphasis mine)

Hmmm...but where is any exception for "emergencies" made in the the 4th commandment? Does the version of your bible make such an exception?

Does any exception for obedience exist in the other 9 commandments of the Decalogue?

Ex 20:8-11
8 "Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. 11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.
NIV

The commandment is crystal clear to me! I don't see any exceptions.

And in your last sentence above, you have it all backwards, as usual. Some of us expend a lot of energy proving that it is better to obey the 4th commandment in spirit and in truth in this New Covenant dispensation; for this is how the Father desires to be worshiped (Jn 4:23).

 

[Doran]

Hebrews 10 is all about animal sacrifice- it correlates with Colossians 2:14-17 and has nothing to do with the commandments of God. Does is say we can now worship other gods? Or bow to images? or vain God's holy name? Or break the Sabbath commandment? Or break any of the Ten Commandments? It's about animal sacrifices not being sufficient to forgive sins. Jesus became our sacrificial Lamb for the forgiveness of sin and sanctification when we repent and turn from sin. Acts 2:38 The Ten Commandments is what points out sin 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7 and what we will be judged on. James 2:10-12.

Then explain to us why Paul said that he was NOT under [the] Law (of Moses) but under the Law of Christ (1Cor 9:21)?

 

[Icyspark]

Hi @Icyspark , sorry if I have repeated some points raised by others earlier, but I hope you don’t mind as a thread owner for me sharing my thoughts.

Hi Cornelius8L,

Actually, you may be the first to specifically address aspects of the opening post. Most individuals are jumping into the conversation while ignoring the opening post altogether. So thanks for that!

1. Sabbath as a Memorial

Genesis 2:1-3
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested from all his work. And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested from all the work of creating that he had done.

Exodus 20:8-11
“Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the LORD your God. On it you shall not do any work, neither you, nor your son or daughter, nor your manservant or maidservant, nor your animals, nor the alien within your gates. For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.​

One of the reasons Jesus gives for regularly observing His Sabbath is in reference to the singular monumental event in this world's history—its creation. The Sabbath is a weekly reminder that Jesus created this Earth (John 1:3; Colossians 1:15-17). It is a day to rest from our works just as Jesus rested from His (Hebrews 4:7-10). It is to this very fact of being the Creator that Jesus appeals to over and over in the Scriptures as validation for His claim to being the one and only true God (c.f. 1 Chronicles 16:23-27; 2 Kings 19:15; 2 Chronicles 2:12; Nehemiah 9:6; Psalm 33:6; 96:5; 102:25-27; 115:15; 121:2; Isaiah 37:16; 40:20; 45:18; Jeremiah 10:12; 27:5; 32:17; 33:2, 3; 51:15; Jonah 1:9; Job 26:7; Acts 4:24; 14:15; 17:24; Revelation 14:7).

Psalm 111:2-4
Great are the works of the LORD; they are pondered by all who delight in them. Glorious and majestic are his deeds, and his righteousness endures forever. He has caused his wonders to be remembered; the LORD is gracious and compassionate.​

If Jesus says to "Remember the Sabbath," and this remembering is directly connected to the "wonders" of His creation, why is it that people find this something they wish to forget? If one were to develop a hierarchy of the most important events in human history would not the act of creation rank toward the very top? Aside from the life, death and resurrection of the Creator, what other event do you suppose would be more worthy of remembering? Interestingly, even though Jesus nor His disciples ever hinted at any regularly repeating recognition for His resurrection, there are some who insist that we honor Sunday as a resurrection memorial. So while we have no divine command for a weekly remembering of the resurrection (making it a tradition of men), we likewise have no command overturning the weekly remembering of the creation. About this Jesus asks, "Why do you break the command of God for the sake of your tradition?"

#1 – I know the seventh-day sabbath REST in Exodus 20 references the Seventh-day Creation Rest, but is there a commandment to remember the Six Days of Creation? “Remember the Sabbath” in Exodus 20:8-10 refers to that rest day. We do not need a day to remember His creation as no christ-believer would reject the fact that God creates everything. The “Memorial” part sounds like a tradition.

I'm including my numbered reasons from the opening post to go along with your responses such that we can better compare what you're saying in reply to what I said.

The fourth commandment memorializes the creation event. I think that's pretty clear from what Exodus 20 relates: "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." Iow, because the LORD made the heavens and the earth in six days, the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. That seems pretty plain. And remembering is backwards pointing. It's not shadowy in nature as shadows point forward to some future fulfillment (i.e. the Source of the shadow).

As for whether any "christ-believer would reject the fact that God creates everything," I'd say that's not what we see in reality. There are lots of "christ-believers" who have succumbed to the idea that evolution is settled science and have defaulted to a belief that this world is millions of years old. These "believers" attempt to align what the Bible says with what the ever-changing beliefs scientists come up with which they claim are solid and foundational.

Is it "tradition" to believe what the Scriptures teach? I'm not the one who placed the word "Therefore" in the context of remembering the six days in which "the Lord made the heavens and the earth..." Why would you think to wave this off as tradition?

2. A Day for Our Benefit

Isaiah 58:13-14
“If you keep your feet from breaking the Sabbath and from doing as you please on my holy day, if you call the Sabbath a delight and the LORD’s holy day honorable, and if you honor it by not going your own way and not doing as you please or speaking idle words, then you will find your joy in the LORD, and I will cause you to ride on the heights of the land and to feast on the inheritance of your father Jacob.” The mouth of the LORD has spoken.​

Through His prophet Isaiah, Jesus portrays His holy day as something to delight in. If Jesus says to delight in His Sabbath I'm certain that there must be a blessing to be obtained by observing the day He blessed.

Mark 2:27
Then he said to them, “The Sabbath was made for man (444 anthropos; human being), not man for the Sabbath.​

Not only is the Sabbath affirmed as something to "delight" in, but Jesus Himself takes the opportunity to make it clear that when He made the Sabbath on the seventh day of creation it was made for the benefit of all humanity. The word for man in this text is "anthropos" which means people. Thus the Sabbath is for men and women, Jews and Gentiles, slaves and those who are free. All humanity can delight in the benefits of having a day off to remember their Creator and to rest from their own works.

#2 – I agree. No one likes to work.

Jesus said the Sabbath was made for human beings. It was made for our benefit. God created human beings to work, but it was not to be an unending, ceaseless toiling. From the very beginning God set apart holy time for His human beings to spend a whole day resting and spending it with Him. It's a date with the Creator of the universe! How amazingly awesome is that? Why would anyone want to give that up?

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The Rest in The Land of Canaan:

Deut 25:19
19 When the LORD your God gives you rest from all the enemies around you in the land he is giving you to possess as an inheritance, you shall blot out the memory of Amalek from under heaven. Do not forget!
NIV

Even that rest was to be remembered!

To be sure, the rest into which Joshua led Israel was strictly temporal, physical and natural. It was not the substance. Whereas the rest of the greater Joshua (Jesus) is spiritual, supernatural and eternal.

Did you know that rest is referred to in scripture over 500 times and rest doesn't always mean the Sabbath commandment. There is also NO scripture that says "rest" replaces the seventh day Sabbath commandment either. The seventh day is the Sabbath according to God Exodus 20:10 and Sabbath in most of the older languages means Saturday.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Then explain to us why Paul said that he was NOT under [the] Law (of Moses) but under the Law of Christ (1Cor 9:21)?

The scripture says being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ.

Those in Christ are delivered from the curse of the law of God (condemnation-wages of sin is death) not that one does not have to have compliance with God's law. The law just points out sin. Romans 3:20, 1 John 3:4, Romans 7:7

The law of Christ is love and love to God is keeping His commandments 1 John 5:3. We should always obey because of love John 14:15, Exodus 20:6 and through faith Romans 3:31

 

[Doran]

Hi Cornelius8L,

Actually, you may be the first to specifically address aspects of the opening post. Most individuals are jumping into the conversation while ignoring the opening post altogether. So thanks for that!






I'm including my reasons to go along with your responses such that we can better compare what you're saying in reply to what I said.

The fourth commandment memorializes the creation event. I think that's pretty clear from what Exodus 20 relates: "For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy." Iow, because the LORD made the heavens and the earth in six days, the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. That seems pretty plain. And remembering is backwards pointing. It's not shadowy in nature as shadows point forward to some future fulfillment (i.e. the Source of the shadow).

As for whether any "christ-believer would reject the fact that God creates everything," I'd say that's not what we see in reality. There are lots of "christ-believers" who have succumbed to the idea that evolution is settled science and have defaulted to a belief that this world is millions of years old. This "believers" attempt to align what the Bible says with what the ever-changing beliefs scientists come up with which they claim is fact.

Is it "tradition" to believe what the Scriptures teach? I'm not the one who placed the word "Therefore" in the context of remembering the six days in which "the Lord made the heavens and the earth..." Why would you think to wave this off as tradition?






Jesus said the Sabbath was made for human beings. It was made for our benefit. God created human beings to work, but it was not to be an unending, ceaseless toiling. From the very beginning God set apart holy time for His human beings to spend a whole day resting and spending it with Him. It's a date with the Creator of the universe! How amazingly awesome is that? Why would anyone want to give that up?

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

Actually, the 4th commandment is calling the Israelites to remember when God gave them the sabbath in the wilderness (Ex 16:28-29). In fact the call to "remember" is because the ancient Israelites seemed to have a very short memory as they persisted in their disobedience. This truth is born out by the fact that vv.9-10 are the first things they are to remember, which was their experience in the wilderness. V.11 tells us why they should remember that experience.

Further evidence to these facts is that to help the Israelites to remember that experience Moses instructed Aaron to put an omer of manna in jar to be kept for generations to come (Ex 16:33-35). In other words, the jar of manna was to serve as a memorial, as this jar was even kept in the Ark of the Covenant -- the covenant that is no longer in force, along with all its religious rituals!

 

[SabbathBlessings]

^ None of the scriptures above match your commentary.

The Sabbath commandment points back to Creation, not the wilderness. They kept the Sabbath in the wilderness because it is part of creation.

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In ityou shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who iswithin your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

Genesis 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth, and all the host of them, were finished. 2 And on the seventh day God ended His work which He had done, and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done.
Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

The Sabbath commandment is a memorial to Creation, to remember everything God made for us, without us. Man never made anything, God did all the work and we should not question something that He has commanded us to do. God gives us six days and only asks for one- the seventh day we are to cease our works, just like God did and rest in Him through communion (spiritual rest) on His holy and blessed day.

 

[Icyspark]

3. Jesus Kept the Sabbath

Luke 4:16
[Jesus] went to Nazareth, where he had been brought up, and on the Sabbath day he went into the synagogue, as was his custom. And he stood up to read.​

It was Jesus's regular practice to assemble together with other believers on the Sabbath day. Leviticus 23:3 says that the Sabbath is "a day of sacred assembly." You can certainly worship God on all days of the week, but the Sabbath is the day Jesus set aside for worshipping with other believers in a corporate setting. It is a day set apart—a "holy day"—on which holy people are to rest from their own works and be blessed on the day that Jesus blessed.

1 Peter 2:21
To this you were called, because Christ suffered for you, leaving you an example, that you should follow in his steps.​

Jesus is our example in all things and following the things He did should not give anyone cause for concern. On the contrary, it is in doing those things which Jesus never did and never told us to do which we should seriously question the safety of such position. Keeping the Sabbath is in keeping with following Jesus's steps.

1 John 2:6
Whoever claims to live in Him must walk as Jesus did.​

Again, if we are to "walk as Jesus did" it is a simple thing to ascertain that the example He left was to regularly assemble together with believers on the day He personally blessed and continues to make holy.

#3 – If Luke 4:16 says it is a custom, it is not a commandment, not forgetting that Jesus did not go to synagogue or temple during His 40 days fasting in the wilderness. 1 Peter 2:21 and 1 John 2:6 are referring carrying our cross as Jesus did, not going to the church.

Hi Cornelius8L,

A custom is simply a "repeated practice." Jesus's repeated practice of observing the Sabbath He said He "made for human beings" does not somehow oddly make it a non commandment.

That Jesus didn't go to synagogue during His 40 days of fasting doesn't mean that He was breaking the Sabbath. The command is not to go to church on the Sabbath, it is to rest and observe the Sabbath as a holy day. It's a day set apart for time to spend with God. Do you think that Jesus didn't observe the Sabbath during His fast? How do you suppose that looked? Jesus said, "I have kept my Father's commands..." Do you believe Jesus broke the law? If Jesus broke the law then he isn't the Savior. That's simple logic.

4. Disciples Kept the Sabbath After the Cross

Luke 23:56
Then they went home and prepared spices and perfumes. But they rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment.​

Because Jesus never intended to put an end to the regular seven day cycle He set in motion for humanity's (anthropos) benefit and "delight," Jesus never informed them that it was no longer necessary to observe the Sabbath after His death. This is confirmed by the fact that His closest followers—those who went out of their way to see to His burial preparations—still "rested on the Sabbath in obedience to the commandment." If Jesus did not intend for the Sabbath to be included in His new covenant then He needed to add this to His will before He died. After the death of the Testator nothing can be added or subtracted from that person's will (see Hebrews 9:16-17).

#4 – Hebrews 9:16-17 is talking about the end of the first covenant. “But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have told you (John 14:26).” Clearly, the Advocate comes after the resurrection of Jesus, and Apostles continue to instruct. “For we know in part and we prophesy in part, but when the perfect comes, the partial passes away (1 Corinthians 13:9-10).” The transition happens after Jesus’ resurrection, not during death.

Hebrews is talking about not adding to a testament (i.e. a person's will). This too is simple logic. Do you get to change a person's will after they die? If your parent died and wrote you out of their will, do you get to go to the will and add yourself back in? No. That's obvious. It's plain also that once the Testator (Jesus) dies then no one has the right to add or subtract from His will. Your supplied reference actually affirms my point. "The Holy Spirit ... will remind you of everything I HAVE TOLD YOU." "Remind"—like I noted in response to your comment about a memorial—points backward. 1 Corinthians 13:9-10 is not a license to add new information to the testament after the Testator dies.

I pray this helps.

But for the grace of God go I,cyspark

 

[Doran]

^ None of the scriptures above match your commentary.

The Sabbath commandment points back to Creation, not the wilderness. They kept the Sabbath in the wilderness because it is part of creation.

Well...that's something you have to prove. First, the sabbath was given specifically to God's covenant people who he redeemed out of Egypt per Exodus 16.. It was never given to all mankind, even though it was made for man. The burden of proof is on you to show from the bible that anyone ever observed the 7th day sabbath prior to Exodus 16. I have scripture on my side; you do not. All you have are your talking points based on wishful thinking.

Further, the order of the 4th commandment in Exodus 20 is important, as I pointed out in my previous post. Verses 9 and 10 precede 11 for an historical reason! Moses didn't begin the commandment by saying, "Remember the 6 days of creation and how the Lord rested...". No! He commands them to remember the historical account of when the weekly sabbath was instituted with their ancestors, and only then gives them the reason why that weekly sabbath in the wilderness was so important in the first place. This is also why the jar of manna was placed in the ark to be "kept for all generations" -- it obviously was to be kept as a reminder of the weekly ritual they practiced in the wilderness.

Finally, the fact the 4th commandment is the sign between God and his covenant people in the corporate sense and serves as the visible, external weekly reminder of the Mosiac Covenant itself is more than slightly damaging to sabbatarianism. If you're going to deny that the 4th commandment is the sign in spite of Ex 31:12; Ezk 20:12, 20 , then that would be unprecedented, since all other redemptive covenants are accompanied with signs. The sign of the Abrahamic Covenant was circumcision. The outward, visible signs of the New Covenant are Baptism and the Lord's Table. The only way you can escape this problem is by pointing to what you think the sign of the Mosiac Covenant was -- quoting chapter and verse, of course.

Talk about Mission Impossible! LOL!

P.S. Did you ever look up the definition of "ritual" as I suggested? Or did you simply change the definition of it?

 

[Cornelius8L]

Hebrews is talking about not adding to a testament (i.e. a person's will). This too is simple logic. Do you get to change a person's will after they die? If your parent died and wrote you out of their will, do you get to go to the will and add yourself back in? No. That's obvious. It's plain also that once the Testator (Jesus) dies then no one has the right to add or subtract from His will. Your supplied reference actually affirms my point. "The Holy Spirit ... will remind you of everything I HAVE TOLD YOU." "Remind"—like I noted in response to your comment about a memorial—points backward. 1 Corinthians 13:9-10 is not a license to add new information to the testament after the Testator dies.

Maybe you have misunderstood the power of God fundamentally. Jesus lives forever (Hebrews 7:24), and God is the God of the living (Mark 12:27). Your understanding of God’s will is from the mind of the flesh as if God has died. The analogy you gave doesn’t fit because this Father of I never die. Can my parents write a will while they are living? They can. The Holy Spirit tells us what Jesus says and He still lives. Jesus continues to tell Paul about His teachings in NT. 1 Corinthians 13:9-10 is the statement from Paul by HS’ revelation. Are you telling me that our God is not alive?

A custom is simply a "repeated practice." Jesus's repeated practice of observing the Sabbath He said He "made for human beings" does not somehow oddly make it a non commandment.

That Jesus didn't go to synagogue during His 40 days of fasting doesn't mean that He was breaking the Sabbath. The command is not to go to church on the Sabbath, it is to rest and observe the Sabbath as a holy day. It's a day set apart for time to spend with God. Do you think that Jesus didn't observe the Sabbath during His fast? How do you suppose that looked? Jesus said, "I have kept my Father's commands..." Do you believe Jesus broke the law? If Jesus broke the law then he isn't the Savior. That's simple logic.

Then, you are adding to God’s word by making a repeating practice as teaching. For the record, there is no commandment for such instruction in the NT. Jesus observed the spiritual Sabbath every day, which you may condemn Him for not lifting the one-day special. Are you telling me that Jesus does not spend time with God every day?