Praying to the saints

[Philip_B]

Praying to dead saints is not biblical, it is a doctrine of men. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

There are no dead saints! We are the people of the resurection.

 

[Cockcrow]

There are no dead saints! We are the people of the resurection.

the Bible nowhere commands or allows us to pray to saints in heaven or ask saints in heaven to pray, Jesus never said that.

 

[Philip_B]

We believe in one holy catholic and apostolic church.

Death is vanquished. Death is swallowed up in victory.

I refuse to live as if death has the victory. It clearly does not.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

the Bible nowhere commands or allows us to pray to saints in heaven or ask saints in heaven to pray, Jesus never said that.

Follow the theology in your post or follow the words and actions of the Lord Jesus Christ? Which is better for a Christian I wonder?

I shall follow the Lord; I believe in the communion of the saints. I shall ask them to pray for me to the Lord our God.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Follow the theology in your post or follow the words and actions of the Lord Jesus Christ? Which is better for a Christian I wonder?

I shall follow the Lord; I believe in the communion of the saints. I shall ask them to pray for me to the Lord our God.

As for myself, I have the utmost confidence in my Great High Priest who ever lives to make intercession for His saints.

 

[Cockcrow]

Follow the theology in your post or follow the words and actions of the Lord Jesus Christ? Which is better for a Christian I wonder?

I shall follow the Lord; I believe in the communion of the saints. I shall ask them to pray for me to the Lord our God.

where does the Bible say to ask Saints in heaven to pray for you? Bible says we go to Jesus directly he is our mediator

 

[bbbbbbb]

where does the Bible say to ask Saints in heaven to pray for you? Bible says we go to Jesus directly he is our mediator

The theology seems to be that God really isn't interested and/or able to hear your prayers, but is much more likely to have them relayed to Him by someone in the inner circle, i.e. Mary and the saints. The nice thing is that the saints each have their specialties. For example, if you suffer from cancer there is a saint to pray to. However, you do need to be careful. It used to be that if you wanted safety when you traveled you asked for it from Saint Christopher. Then the Catholic Church decided that Saint Christopher had never existed. Now, I don't know who Catholics pray to for safety in traveling.

 

[Cockcrow]

God is no respecter of persons, it doesn't matter who it is Gods word applies to all, you don't need to have some famous person go to Jesus for you, that is not how praying works.

Hebrews 4:16 Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.

Psalms 50:15 And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me.

1 John 5:14-15 And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us:

And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.

John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

Now we know the Bible does say that it is ok to pray for one another, and we should pray for others, but we pray to Jesus who is our high priest, mediator, and nowhere does it say we should pray to saints in Heaven.

also "saints" in the Bible is not referring to the Catholic Churches so called "saints", saints in the Bible refers to believers

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

@Cockcrow & @bbbbbbb One prays to the saints asking them to pray to the Lord our God because their God and ours is the one true God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. If we may ask parent or friend to pray for us, then surely, we may ask those whose faith has proven enduring enough to have them in heaven in the presence of God to do the same? If a parent or a friend may pray for us without thereby infringing on Christ's role as intercessor, then surely, the saints in heaven may do the same. I ask why do you not write of these things in your posts and why you write as if the saints have no life, no voice, and offer no prayers when the scriptures teach that they pray? Consider what is written in Revelation chapter five.

Consider also these verses

Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Revelation 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Revelation 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

Tobit 12:15 I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels, which present the prayers of the saints, and which go in and out before the glory of the Holy One.
​

 

[bbbbbbb]

@Cockcrow & @bbbbbbb One prays to the saints asking them to pray to the Lord our God because their God and ours is the one true God, Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. If we may ask parent or friend to pray for us, then surely, we may ask those whose faith has proven enduring enough to have them in heaven in the presence of God to do the same? If a parent or a friend may pray for us without thereby infringing on Christ's role as intercessor, then surely, the saints in heaven may do the same. I ask why do you not write of these things in your posts and why you write as if the saints have no life, no voice, and offer no prayers when the scriptures teach that they pray? Consider what is written in Revelation chapter five.

Consider also these verses

Revelation 5:8 And when he had taken the book, the four beasts and four and twenty elders fell down before the Lamb, having every one of them harps, and golden vials full of odours, which are the prayers of saints.

Revelation 8:3 And another angel came and stood at the altar, having a golden censer; and there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne.

Revelation 8:4 And the smoke of the incense, which came with the prayers of the saints, ascended up before God out of the angel's hand.

Tobit 12:15 I am Raphael, one of the seven holy angels, which present the prayers of the saints, and which go in and out before the glory of the Holy One.
​

As I said previously, I am completely confident in my Great High Priest, Jesus Christ, who ever lives to make intercession for his saints.

 

[Jipsah]

As for myself, I have the utmost confidence in my Great High Priest who ever lives to make intercession for His saints.

Then you never ask any living human being to pray for you, right?

 

[Jipsah]

God is no respecter of persons, it doesn't matter who it is Gods word applies to all, you don't need to have some famous person go to Jesus for you, that is not how praying works.

How about asking the old saint who lives next door to pray for you? Is that wrong?

Now we know the Bible does say that it is ok to pray for one another, and we should pray for others

But they mustn't ask you to pray for them because that would be asking you to usurp our Lord's position as the one intercessor, right?

, but we pray to Jesus who is our high priest, mediator

Presumably that's Who the saints pray to as well, else they wouldn't be saints.

, and nowhere does it say we should pray to saints in Heaven.

Doesn't say not to, either. The prohibition of asking departed saints to pray for us comes under the heading of Doctrines of Men.

"saints" in the Bible is not referring to the Catholic Churches so called "saints", saints in the Bible refers to believers

Presumably anyone is Heaven is a believer, wouldn't you say?

 

[chukoy]

Isn't praying a form of worship, which should then be directed to God alone who deserves it? There's also the risk of invoking names who might not be in heaven, only God sees the heart after all and we're told hell is full of religious people.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Then you never ask any living human being to pray for you, right?

Right. I actually have not asked anyone to pray for me as God has abundantly met my every need. That said, when I am asked to pray for others I usually demur, not knowing the will of God in the matter. I encourage others to pray directly to God through Jesus Christ.

 

[Cockcrow]

How about asking the old saint who lives next door to pray for you? Is that wrong?

But they mustn't ask you to pray for them because that would be asking you to usurp our Lord's position as the one intercessor, right?

Presumably that's Who the saints pray to as well, else they wouldn't be saints.

Doesn't say not to, either. The prohibition of asking departed saints to pray for us comes under the heading of Doctrines of Men.

Presumably anyone is Heaven is a believer, wouldn't you say?

Praying for someone who is living is very different than praying directly to a Saint who is in Heaven. Obviously the Bible commands us to pray for each other but we do it in Jesus name, we don't ask some saint to intercede for us so that somehow Jesus will be more likely to respond, no that is not how prayer works and that is unnecessary, we go directly to Jesus

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Right. I actually have not asked anyone to pray for me as God has abundantly met my every need. That said, when I am asked to pray for others I usually demur, not knowing the will of God in the matter. I encourage others to pray directly to God through Jesus Christ.

When you were baptised were no prayers said for you?

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Isn't praying a form of worship

No, prayer is a form of asking because the word pray means to ask. But prayers are part of the liturgy with is worship of God because liturgy means work and refers to the work of God which is to worship him in word and deed.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

the Bible commands us to pray for each other but we do it in Jesus name

When Christians ask the saints to pray for them to the Lord our God the request is in Jesus' name. Our prayers always start with the invocation of God with these words, "In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy Spirit".

 

[bbbbbbb]

When you were baptised were no prayers said for you?

That is quite correct.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

That is quite correct.

Your reply is a surprise to me. For it is common practise to baptise in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit in a prayer for the grace of God to be given to the one who is baptised and a birth from above to be granted to such. Was this not so for you?