Praying to the saints

[concretecamper]

According to Jesus, those in Heaven are keenly aware what goes on here.


Luke 15:4 What man of you that hath an hundred sheep, and if he shall lose one of them, doth he not leave the ninety-nine in the desert and go after that which was lost, until he find it?
15:5 And when he hath found it, lay it upon his shoulders, rejoicing?
15:6 And coming home, call together his friends and neighbours, saying to them: Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost?
15:7 I say to you that even so there shall be joy in heaven upon one sinner that doth penance, more than upon ninety-nine just who need not penance.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

According to Jesus, those in Heaven are keenly aware what goes on here.


Luke 15:4 What man of you that hath an hundred sheep, and if he shall lose one of them, doth he not leave the ninety-nine in the desert and go after that which was lost, until he find it?
15:5 And when he hath found it, lay it upon his shoulders, rejoicing?
15:6 And coming home, call together his friends and neighbours, saying to them: Rejoice with me, because I have found my sheep that was lost?
15:7 I say to you that even so there shall be joy in heaven upon one sinner that doth penance, more than upon ninety-nine just who need not penance.

Amen.

 

[SimonPeter111]

How did it come about that you are now almost a non-denominational Christian and are a nominal Catholic?

That's a long story, the government doesn't allow me to go to meetings, and in China, the Catholic Church is not allowed, but it's legal to have a patriotic Catholic church

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

That's a long story, the government doesn't allow me to go to meetings, and in China, the Catholic Church is not allowed, but it's legal to have a patriotic Catholic church

May God grant you and the Church in China freedom from persecution of every kind.

 

[Jipsah]

Some Christians prefer to go directly to our Father.

Which apparently eliminates any desire to ask anyone else to pray for you as well, yes?

I'f I'd ask old Mrs.Kim to pray for me,why should I not ask the Blessed Virgin to pray for me as well, assuming I believe she can hear my request?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Which apparently eliminates any desire to ask anyone else to pray for you as well, yes?

I'f I'd ask old Mrs.Kim to pray for me,why should I not ask the Blessed Virgin to pray for me as well, assuming I believe she can hear my request?

You mean a living person? If so, no I do not eliminate them from joining me in my supplications and thanks to our Father. The dead have no part in this.
Blessings.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

You mean a living person? If so, no I do not eliminate them from joining me in my supplications and thanks to our Father.

Jesus said to the Sadducees - who denied the existence of angels, spirits [of men], and the resurrection,

Mark 12:26-27

"26 And as concerning the dead that they rise again have you not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spoke to him, saying: I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You therefore do greatly err."​

Never be too hasty to shut the saint away in their coffins as if they have no part in the life of the Church.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Jesus said to the Sadducees - who denied the existence of angels, spirits [of men], and the resurrection,

Mark 12:26-27

"26 And as concerning the dead that they rise again have you not read in the book of Moses, how in the bush God spoke to him, saying: I am the God of Abraham and the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You therefore do greatly err."​

Never be too hasty to shut the saint away in their coffins as if they have no part in the life of the Church.

With all due respect, this passage has nothing to with prayers to the dead Saints. It has to do with the ressurection of all people on the last day. Both Saints and evil doers.
Mark 12
Then some Sadducees, who say there is no resurrection, came to Him; and they asked Him, saying: 19 “Teacher, Moses wrote to us that if a man’s brother dies, and leaves his wife behind, and leaves no children, his brother should take his wife and raise up offspring for his brother. 20 Now there were seven brothers. The first took a wife; and dying, he left no offspring. 21 And the second took her, and he died; nor did he leave any offspring. And the third likewise. 22 So the seven had her and left no offspring. Last of all the woman died also. 23 Therefore, in the resurrection, when they rise, whose wife will she be? For all seven had her as wife.”

24 Jesus answered and said to them, “Are you not therefore mistaken, because you do not know the Scriptures nor the power of God? 25 For when they rise from the dead, they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels in heaven. 26 But concerning the dead, that they rise, have you not read in the book of Moses, in the burning bush passage, how God spoke to him, saying, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? 27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living. You are therefore greatly mistaken.”

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

With all due respect, this passage has nothing to with prayers to the dead Saints.

That reply reads like one saying "with all due respect the Sadducees were right!". Of course, that could not be your intended meaning. Yet your reply does sidestep the implication of our Lord's statement that God is the God of the living and not the God of the dead. So, I cannot help but point out that 'dead saints' is an oxymoron in the light of the Lord's statement. The saints are alive and with God as the scriptures teach.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

That reply reads like one saying "with all due respect the Sadducees were right!". Of course, that could not be your intended meaning. Yet your reply does sidestep the implication of our Lord's statement that God is the God of the living and not the God of the dead. So, I cannot help but point out that 'dead saints' is an oxymoron in the light of the Lord's statement. The saints are alive and with God as the scriptures teach.

Yikes! We are not on the same page but that is fine. We have denominational divisions that gives us different views on the dead. Thanks for engaging!

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Yikes! We are not on the same page but that is fine. We have denominational divisions that gives us different views on the dead. Thanks for engaging!

Does that reply imply that soul sleep and annihilationism are the positions that your posts are drawing their theology from?

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Does that reply imply that soul sleep and annihilationism are the positions that your posts are drawing their theology from?

Soul sleep is not a view found in scripture and annihilationism is one of the four views presented after judgment day. I hold to no final solution view for the unrighteous at this point in my walk because scripture is not clear on the matter.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Soul sleep is not a view found in scripture and annihilationism is one of the four views presented after judgment day. I hold to no final solution view for the unrighteous at this point in my walk because scripture is not clear on the matter.

Then the saints live in Christ while awaiting the resurrection and the scripture speaks true when it says, in reference to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, that God is the God of the living. And remembering that Moses and Elijah appeared with the Lord Jesus Christ on the mount of Transfiguration and conversed with him, which teaches that the saints in heaven are not dead as the world conceives death but live and are active and able to interact with earthly beings.

Thus, it is that the great cloud of witnesses observes the doings of the faithful (Hebrews 12:1) and when asked they will pray for the needs of the faithful, and when not asked they will pray for the faithful because they love them and are brothers and sisters to them.

 

[Jipsah]

You mean a living person? If so, no I do not eliminate them from joining me in my supplications and thanks to our Father. The dead have no part in this.

Hmmm.. I've been told that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

 

[Maria Billingsley]

Hmmm.. I've been told that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.

Sure but not equal to Him. Only the Lord hears our supplications because he is omniscient and the dead are not.
Blessings

 

[Cockcrow]

everyone who is a believer that dies and goes to heaven is a saint, and we are not supposed to pray to the dead, praying to dead saints is not biblically allowed.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Sure but not equal to Him. Only the Lord hears our supplications because he is omniscient and the dead are not.
Blessings

Only God has any power all others are given, by God's grace, abilities and gifts. Thus the saints in heaven, by the grace of God, are given the gift of hearing the prayers of the saints on earth directed through them. There is no implied equality with God in this. It is a gift just as we on earth have received, by grace, the gifts we have.

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

everyone who is a believer that dies and goes to heaven is a saint, and we are not supposed to pray to the dead, praying to dead saints is not biblically allowed.

The saints in heaven are not dead. Moses and Elijah spoke with Jesus while Jesus was on Earth. And the Lord Jesus Christ said to the Sadducees that God is not the God of the dead but of the living. These words and the appearance of Moses and Elijah are lessons we ought to take to heart as teaching us that to God none of his saints are dead.

 

[Cockcrow]

The saints in heaven are not dead. Moses and Elijah spoke with Jesus while Jesus was on Earth. And the Lord Jesus Christ said to the Sadducees that God is not the God of the dead but of the living. These words and the appearance of Moses and Elijah are lessons we ought to take to heart as teaching us that to God none of his saints are dead.

Praying to dead saints is not biblical, it is a doctrine of men. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

 

[Xeno.of.athens]

Praying to dead saints is not biblical, it is a doctrine of men. 1 Timothy 2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Have you ever asked another Christian to pray for you?