Who Saved You and Why?

[bbbbbbb]

Friend, you obviously dont have a clue on what Salvation by Grace is all about. Its all of God. It began with His choice of individuals in Christ Jesus before the world began Eph 1:4
4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This is Gods election of Grace ! Rom 11:5

Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

Salvation by Grace also is limited to a remnant !

And who is to say that you, or myself, are actually part of that remnant? Do you hold any assurance that you are? If so, what are you basing it upon?

 

[Brightfame52]

And who is to say that you, or myself, are actually part of that remnant? Do you hold any assurance that you are? If so, what are you basing it upon?

Im not here to talk about who is part of that remnant. Nevertheless God saves by Grace 100%. A Persons Salvation is 1000% Gods doing !

 

[Marumorose]

1. IOW, what or Who causes a person to become a Christian?
2. My questions usually result in more questions. I apologize in advance.

Jesus Christ and Will causes a person to become a Christian. We all have the spirit of God inside of us that guides or helps us. These spirit is blocked from helping us unless we answer the Lord Jesus Christ when he calls us. May God bless you

 

[Brightfame52]

Jesus Christ and Will causes a person to become a Christian. We all have the spirit of God inside of us that guides or helps us. These spirit is blocked from helping us unless we answer the Lord Jesus Christ when he calls us. May God bless you

Hi, so we can block God Almighty Will ?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Hi, so we can block God Almighty Will ?

Only if God wills that we can do so. For example, God willed that Satan tempted Job.

 

[Brightfame52]

Only if God wills that we can do so. For example, God willed that Satan tempted Job.

Thats unheard of. God allowing an inferior to block His Will !

 

[Soyeong]

John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered Him, Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of Eternal Life. (John 12:48-50)

Many of the same words that Jesus spoke are also found in the Talmud.

If someone were to make an historical claim that a particular belief was prevalent among the Pharisees, then do you affirm or deny that the writings of the Pharisees would be a relevant source to support or reject that claim?

hupokrites

= an actor under an assumed character (stage-player):--hypocrite.

Matthew 23:13-35 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the Kingdom of Heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
[27] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.[28] Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
[29] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,[30] And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.[31] Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.[32] Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.[33] Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?[34] Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets and wise men and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify, and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:[35] That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the Earth...

Jesus did not oppose the Pharisees for obeying what God commanded them to do and he did not oppose their authority, but he criticized them for things like pride, for doing things for show, and for neglecting weightier matters of the law. The Pharisees also criticized other Pharisees for hypocrisy, so Jesus was not the only one to do that.

John 8:39-40 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Ιησους saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.[40] But now ye seek to kill Me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

When Jesus was speaking to a group of Pharisees and criticizing them, then that should not be mistaken as speaking about the movement as a whole, or even the majority of Pharisees because Jesus was in strong agreement with prevalent views among the Pharisees so much so that the case could be made that he was a Pharisee of the house of Hillel. Furthermore, there were a number of other Jewish sects such as the Sadducees, Herodians, Essenes, and Zealots, so what he said against a particular group of Pharisees is not representative of the Jewish people as a whole. In Luke 1:5-6 it says that Zechariah and Elizabeth were righteous before God, walking blamelessly in all of the commandments and statutes of the Lord, so there were Jews who were children of Abraham who were of the faith of Abraham and doing the works of Abraham.

Again, Galatians 3:26-29 connects those who are children of God through faith in Christ with those who are children of Abraham, heirs to the promise, which completely undermines that these are two separate Gospels.

 

[bbbbbbb]

Thats unheard of. God allowing an inferior to block His Will !

So, by what authority did Satan tempt Job?

 

[Brightfame52]

So, by what authority did Satan tempt Job?

What in the world does that have to do with God allowing someone to block His Will ?

 

[bbbbbbb]

What in the world does that have to do with God allowing someone to block His Will ?

If God willed Job to endure such torment, then why would Satan have entered into the equation? In a similar sense, if God wills the eternal damnation of mankind, then how would individual wills enter into the equation?

 

[Ligurian]

John 6:68 Then Simon Peter answered Him, Lord, to whom shall we go? Thou hast the words of Eternal Life. (John 12:48-50)
hupokrites = an actor under an assumed character (stage-player):--hypocrite.
Matthew 23:13-35 But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the Kingdom of Heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.
[27] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.[28] Even so ye also outwardly appear righteous unto men, but within ye are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
[29] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous,[30] And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.[31] Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets.[32] Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers.[33] Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?[34] Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets and wise men and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify, and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:[35] That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the Earth...

John 8:39-40 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Ιησους saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham.[40] But now ye seek to kill Me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.

Many of the same words that Jesus spoke are also found in the Talmud.

Furthermore, there were a number of other Jewish sects such as the Sadducees, Herodians, Essenes, and Zealots, so what he said against a particular group of Pharisees is not representative of the Jewish people as a whole.

Again, Galatians 3:26-29 connects those who are children of God through faith in Christ with those who are children of Abraham, heirs to the promise, which completely undermines that these are two separate Gospels.

Even a broken watch is right twice a day.

 

[Soyeong]

Even a broken watch is right twice a day.

Please answer my question:

If someone were to make an historical claim that a particular belief was prevalent among the Pharisees, then do you affirm or deny that the writings of the Pharisees would be a relevant source to support or reject that claim?

You should not be quick to dismiss God moving among His people for thousands of years, especially when you have not read the vast majority of it. Again, in the debate between the house of Hillel and the house of Shammai, Jesus and the Talmud were virtually in complete agreement, so that is far more than a broken clock being right twice a day. The fact that the Talmud makes ruling on issues that it is not recorded that Jesus spoke about does not mean that those rulings are all automatically incorrect or that they misunderstood every think that God commanded.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

I've been online for hours and I'm really tired. I may have been wondering why some of us come to Christ and others don't.

"No one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him" (Jn 6:65; cf. v. 44).

The Bible mentions the following threats:

- The wrath of God.

- Fear and trembling.

- Hell.

Salvation is the carrot: If you are saved, you will avoid the wrath of God and not go to an eternity of hell.

Even in the face of such threats, some come to Christ and others don't. So, the existence of threats doesn't explain.

 

[Brightfame52]

If God willed Job to endure such torment, then why would Satan have entered into the equation? In a similar sense, if God wills the eternal damnation of mankind, then how would individual wills enter into the equation?

Friend you sound more and more unreasonable to me. God is Sovereign over all, His Will is always accomplished. Dan 4:34-35

34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

 

[bbbbbbb]

Friend you sound more and more unreasonable to me. God is Sovereign over all, His Will is always accomplished. Dan 4:34-35

34 And at the end of the days I Nebuchadnezzar lifted up mine eyes unto heaven, and mine understanding returned unto me, and I blessed the most High, and I praised and honoured him that liveth for ever, whose dominion is an everlasting dominion, and his kingdom is from generation to generation:

35 And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing: and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth: and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou?

That is my point, precisely. God is sovereign. He is fully responsible for each and every thing that happens in this universe. Without His express approval Satan could never have tempted Job. Satan is, to this moment, a creature bound to the immutable will of God, although it may seem otherwise to most people.

Likewise, people are fully bound to the inscrutable will of God. If God wills people to exercise what they perceive to be their own "free" wills then that exercise, despite all other appearances, has been predestined since the foundation of the earth.

 

[Brightfame52]

That is my point, precisely. God is sovereign. He is fully responsible for each and every thing that happens in this universe. Without His express approval Satan could never have tempted Job. Satan is, to this moment, a creature bound to the immutable will of God, although it may seem otherwise to most people.

Likewise, people are fully bound to the inscrutable will of God. If God wills people to exercise what they perceive to be their own "free" wills then that exercise, despite all other appearances, has been predestined since the foundation of the earth.

Okay this sounds good.

 

[Ligurian]

That is my point, precisely. God is sovereign. He is fully responsible for each and every thing that happens in this universe. Without His express approval Satan could never have tempted Job. Satan is, to this moment, a creature bound to the immutable will of God, although it may seem otherwise to most people.

Likewise, people are fully bound to the inscrutable will of God. If God wills people to exercise what they perceive to be their own "free" wills then that exercise, despite all other appearances, has been predestined since the foundation of the earth.

In Revelation 3:10, the Great Tribulation is called the hour of temptation.KJV
Temptation is a trial, a test, proved, in Greek. Revelation 2:9-10, Smyrna is tried... because she desires not to be poor? or to not be blasphemed?

James 1:13-15 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:[14] But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.[15] Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

 

[Ligurian]

When Jesus was speaking to a group of Pharisees and criticizing them, then that should not be mistaken as speaking about the movement as a whole

Matthew 23:29-35, Matthew 21:33-46, Matthew 12:24-31.

Please answer my question:

If someone were to make an historical claim that a particular belief was prevalent among the Pharisees

...then I would still let Ιησους be my guide.

 

[Ligurian]

"No one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him" (Jn 6:65; cf. v. 44).




Even in the face of such threats, some come to Christ and others don't. So, the existence of threats doesn't explain.

His sheep hear His voice, because they heard the Father's voice.

Jeremiah 7:22-23 For I spoke not to your fathers, and commanded them not in the day wherein I brought them up out of the land of Egypt, concerning whole-burnt-offerings and sacrifice:[23] but I commanded them this thing, saying, Hear ye My voice and I will be to you a God, and ye shall be to Me a people; and walk ye in all My ways which I shall command you, that it may be well with you.

(Deuteronomy 18:18-19, John 12:48-50)

John 17:6-8 I have manifested Thy name unto the men which Thou gavest Me out of the world: Thine they were and Thou gavest them Me and they have kept Thy word.[7] Now they have known that all things whatsoever Thou hast given Me are of Thee.[8] For I have given unto them the words which Thou gavest Me, and they have received them and have known surely that I came out from Thee, and they have believed that Thou didst send Me.

John 10:16 And other sheep I have which are not of this fold, them also I must bring: and they shall hear My voice, and there shall be one fold, one shepherd.

 

[DialecticSkeptic]

His sheep hear his voice, because they heard the Father's voice.

I agree. "I know my sheep, and my sheep know me—just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep" (Jn 10:14-15).