Why people reject the reality of Hell

[FineLinen]

Can God save a man that doesn't want to be saved?

Most assuredly....

Yes

Most individuals do not recognize they need saving as a natural man to be awakened into Him.

 

[Saint Steven]

It's not that I particularly "like" hell - I just think the Bible teaches not everyone will enter into heaven.

Doesn't that make God out to be a cosmic tyrant?
A God like that can't be trusted.
What's to stop him from incinerating you too?

A belief in hell turns our loving heavenly Father into something more like a gangster godfather, making us an offer we can't refuse. Spiritual extortion really.

 

[Der Alte]

...

Most assuredly....
Yes
Most individuals do not recognize they need saving as a natural man to be awakened into Him.

Revelation 22:11
(11) He that is unrighteous, let him do unrighteousness still: and he that is filthy, let him be made filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him do righteousness still: and he that is holy, let him be made holy still.​

No more salvation, 11 more verses then the end!

...

Doesn't that make God out to be a cosmic tyrant?
A God like that can't be trusted.
What's to stop him from incinerating you too?
A belief in hell turns our loving heavenly Father into something more like a gangster godfather, making us an offer we can't refuse. Spiritual extortion really.

Jesus is not a liar!

EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”​

Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, translated “aionios,” in Matt 25:46, as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
Who better than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB], quoted above and below, know the correct meaning of the Greek words in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online:
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46, above, and the 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18., below.

EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.​

In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18. Some mis/uninformed folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.” However, that is an etymological fallacy. According to the EOB Greek scholars it means “punishment.”
Note: in 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect. Thus “kolasis” does not/cannot mean “correction.”
…..It is acknowledged that modern Greek differs from koine Greek but I am confident that the Greek speaking EOB scholars, backed up by 2000 years +/- of Greek scholarship, are competent enough to know the correct meanings of old words which may have changed in meaning or are no longer used and to translate them correctly. Just as scholars today know the meaning of archaic words which occur in the KJV and translate them correctly.

 

[All Becomes New]

Doesn't that make God out to be a cosmic tyrant?
A God like that can't be trusted.
What's to stop him from incinerating you too?

A belief in hell turns our loving heavenly Father into something more like a gangster godfather, making us an offer we can't refuse. Spiritual extortion really.

That's completely secondary. Primary is what the Bible actually says. We can work out the kinks in the NHNE. For now, I judge who God is and what He does by His word.

 

[Saint Steven]

For now, I judge who God is and what He does by His word.

Fair enough. What does the Bible say? (according to infernalists)
1) God predestined the Elect for salvation.
2) Therefore everyone else (the broad way) is predestined for incineration.
3) Hell is just an uncomfortable subject, so we sweep it under the rug.
4) We prefer to call it "eternal separation from God", so as to hide the grizzly details.

How would you characterize a god like that?

 

[Jipsah]

And by all means, feel free to do the opposite, and assure yourself that you're going to be ridin' high with the saints in Heaven while all those rotten sinners who disrespected you, oops, I mean who disrespected God, will be writhing and screaming in the fire forever. Bet they're not laughing now, huh?

Standard response. "Oh yeah, well you'll see!"

The truth will be revealed at the right time.

That it will.

The downside is that everyone's fate is sealed at death

After which God Can't do anything about it. I mean yeah, He's omnipotent, but that doesn't mean He can't do just anything He wants to do, does it? I mean, nobody's that omnipotent, are they? I mean, Lazarus was dead, so Christ couldn't have... oh wait...

hopefully, you believe the resurrection is real.

Nice touch, that. Yeah, the Resurrection i real. I can't necessarily vouch for your favorite doctrines, though. Too many sound like rehashes of what Brother Bob taught you, so I'll withhold agreement with them for the moment.

As the rich man in Luke 16 begged for a second chance and was told it's not possible

Yeah, just one of the many things that God Can't Do, right? "Poor God, He would so like to help those poor souls, but there's just nothing He can do.". Right? God's omnipotent until His omni[optence impinges on your doctrine, right? A fig for your doctrine!

many who share your views will find out too late that the lake of fire is very real.

Agree with Brother Bob or roast forever, yeah!

 

[Jipsah]

I'm afraid the majority of brethren here that deny God's eternal judgment have bought into Satan's classic deception.

Or you have. Who was it who said "Thou shalt not surely die"? Your lot agree with him, don't you? You believe that everyone lives forever, wither in bliss or in torment. I happen to believe that the wages of sin is... wait for it... death, not eternal life in torment. But you have to pick which Scriptures to ignore to keep your doctrine intact, don't you? Oh right, I forgot, death doesn't really mean death, it Really Means eternal life under torture, right? St Paul always had a tough time expressing himself, right? Just change a word here and a word there and the Bible supports Brother Bob's doctrine perfectly, right?

Every effort I've made to reveal the truth has been put down. Maybe you'll have better luck than me....

"Thou shalt not surely die". Got it.

 

[Jipsah]

Koina Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago

Macro key?

 

[Jipsah]

believe me, if I could honestly find a scripture that would remove hell, I would be all over it.

"For the wages of sins is...."? Eternal, irrevocable, death. Erased from the Book of Life, erased from history, Gone, forever. Hell's real enough. Our Lord said to fear Him hwo could destroy body and soul in hell. ECT folks says "yeah, He could, but He doesn't." Then why are we to fear Him? This is right up there with "death doesn't really mean death", it's "God doesn't really destroy anyone in Hell", implying that our Lord was asking people to fear something that was never going to happen. I'm sorry, but ECT folks have to play the "No, what that really means is that..." game way too much for comfort.

 

[Der Alte]

Macro key?

Under the door mat where I always leave it.

 

[All Becomes New]

Fair enough. What does the Bible say? (according to infernalists)
1) God predestined the Elect for salvation.
2) Therefore everyone else (the broad way) is predestined for incineration.
3) Hell is just an uncomfortable subject, so we sweep it under the rug.
4) We prefer to call it "eternal separation from God", so as to hide the grizzly details.

How would you characterize a god like that?

There are many different views on Soteriology, not just Calvinism.

 

[Der Alte]

"For the wages of sins is...."? Eternal, irrevocable, death. Erased from the Book of Life, erased from history, Gone, forever. Hell's real enough. Our Lord said to fear Him hwo could destroy body and soul in hell. ECT folks says "yeah, He could, but He doesn't." Then why are we to fear Him? This is right up there with "death doesn't really mean death", it's "God doesn't really destroy anyone in Hell", implying that our Lord was asking people to fear something that was never going to happen. I'm sorry, but ECT folks have to play the "No, what that really means is that..." game way too much for comfort.

Not really! Was Jesus lying in Matt 25:46?

EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”​

Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, translated “aionios,” in Matt 25:46, as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
Who better than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB], quoted below, know the correct meaning of the Greek words in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online:
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46, above, and the 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18., below.

EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.​

In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18. Some mis/uninformed folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.” However, that is an etymological root fallacy. According to the EOB Greek scholars it means “punishment.”
Note: in 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect. Thus “kolasis” does not/cannot mean “correction.”
…..It is acknowledged that modern Greek differs from koine Greek but I am confident that the Greek speaking EOB scholars, backed up by 2000 years +/- of Greek scholarship, are competent enough to know the correct meanings of old words which may have changed in meaning or are no longer used and to translate them correctly. Just as scholars today know the meaning of archaic words which occur in the KJV and translate them correctly.
Mat 25:46 "저희는 영벌에, 의인들은 영생에 들어가리라 하시니라"

 

[All Becomes New]

Anyone wishing to prove their case of universalism will have to contend with @Der Alte. His content on this subject is really good. If universalists can't refute what he says, then they shouldn't be convincing anyone.

 

[Saint Steven]

Anyone wishing to prove their case of universalism will have to contend with @Der Alte. His content on this subject is really good. If universalists can't refute what he says, then they shouldn't be convincing anyone.

I can't speak for others, but my intentions are not to "win" the debate. My aim is to educate. I'll leave the convincing up to God.

All three views of the final judgment are biblical. Take your pick.

 

[Receivedgrace]

Doesn't that make God out to be a cosmic tyrant?
A God like that can't be trusted.
What's to stop him from incinerating you too?

A belief in hell turns our loving heavenly Father into something more like a gangster godfather, making us an offer we can't refuse. Spiritual extortion really.

I would not think it wise to judge God. How does your wisdom surpass the wisdom of God?
Why does God save anyone?

 

[Saint Steven]

I would not think it wise to judge God. How does your wisdom surpass the wisdom of God?
Why does God save anyone?

Common sense says a loving father shouldn't incinerate his children when they misbehave. You don't need the wisdom of God to figure that out.

 

[Der Alte]

...

Common sense says a loving father shouldn't incinerate his children when they misbehave. You don't need the wisdom of God to figure that out.

Have you ever read Job? What did God say to Job when Job questioned Him?
You should really read Deuteronomy 28 particularly beginning at vs. 15
Deu 28:15 But it shall come to pass, if thou wilt not hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God, to observe to do all his commandments and his statutes which I command thee this day; that all these curses shall come upon thee, and overtake thee:
Forty-three separate curses on Israel if they disobey.

 

[Receivedgrace]

Common sense says a loving father shouldn't incinerate his children when they misbehave. You don't need the wisdom of God to figure that out.

God is perfectly righteous and holy. God is absolutely sovereign. That God does not incinerate everyone who sins is a demonstration of His love and longsuffering mercy.
Those who exalt themselves above God are certainly in danger.

 

[Lazarus Short]

God is perfectly righteous and holy. God is absolutely sovereign. That God does not incinerate everyone who sins is a demonstration of His love and longsuffering mercy.
Those who exalt themselves above God are certainly in danger.

So...who is really exalting themselves above God? Is it the ECT advocates, who inserted "hell" into the Bible, though the term was never in the Greek of Hebrew? Or, is it the universalists, who deconstructed "hell"?

As for God not incinerating everyone, take a look at Jeremiah 19:5.

 

[Receivedgrace]

So...who is really exalting themselves above God? Is it the ECT advocates, who inserted "hell" into the Bible, though the term was never in the Greek of Hebrew? Or, is it the universalists, who deconstructed "hell"?

As for God not incinerating everyone, take a look at Jeremiah 19:5.

Re 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Kinda looks like John does not agree with you. Of course, he was writing under inspiration of the Holy Spirit.