Why people reject the reality of Hell

[Receivedgrace]

God is outside the constraints of time. Heaven and hell are not limited by time. No hope is ever offered to leave condemnation after death. Time limits the opportunity to repent and believe on Christ.

 

[Jipsah]

God is outside the constraints of time. Heaven and hell are not limited by time. No hope is ever offered to leave condemnation after death. Time limits the opportunity to repent and believe on Christ.

You kinda contradicted yourself there. God is outside the constraints of time, but He can'f save anyone after they're dead. Well, which is it? Either God can or He can't. Hint: any statement that includes "God can't" in it may automatically be considered hogwash. God most certainly can.

 

[Trivalee]

Feel free to exeget this. Good luck, you are going to need it.

Luke 16:23 NAS20
““And in Hades he raised his eyes, being in torment, and *saw Abraham far away and Lazarus in his arms.””

I'm afraid the majority of brethren here that deny God's eternal judgment have bought into Satan's classic deception. Every effort I've made to reveal the truth has been put down. Maybe you'll have better luck than me....

 

[Der Alte]

You kinda contradicted yourself there. God is outside the constraints of time, but He can'f save anyone after they're dead. Well, which is it? Either God can or He can't. Hint: any statement that includes "God can't" in it may automatically be considered hogwash. God most certainly can.

You are misrepresenting what the poster said. He did not say God could not but he did say "Time limits the opportunity [of the dead] to repent and believe on Christ."
And that is scriptural.

1)Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not anything neither have they any more a reward: for the memory of them is forgotten.
2) Isaiah 26:14 They are dead, they shall not live: they are deceased, they shall not rise: therefore hast thou visited and destroyed them and made all their memory to Perish.
3) Psalms 6:5 For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?
4) Psalms 88:10 Wilt thou shew wonders to the dead? shall the dead rise and praise thee? Selah.
5)Psalms 88:11 Shall thy loving kindness be declared in the grave? thy faithfulness in destruction?
6)Ecclesiastes 9:10 Whatsoever thy hand findeth to do, do it with thy might for there is no work, nor device, nor knowledge, nor wisdom, in the grave, whither thou goest.
7) John 9:4 I must work the works of him that sent me. while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
8) Psalms 30:9
What profit is there in my blood, when I go down to the pit? Shall the dust praise thee? shall it declare thy truth?
9) Psalms 115:17
17 The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence.
10) Psalms 88:5
5 Free among the dead, like the slain that lie in the grave, whom thou rememberest no more: and they are cut off from thy hand.
11) Proverbs 11:7
7 When a wicked man dieth, his expectation shall perish: and the hope of unjust men perisheth.
12) Proverbs 24:20 for the evildoer has no future hope and the lamp or the wicked will be snuffed out.
13) Isaiah 38:18 For the grave cannot praise thee, death can not celebrate thee:they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth.
14) Hebrews 9:27
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

Total 14​

 

[Trivalee]

The "other side" being the side that is spiteful and merciless. None of that "Father, forgive them" stuff, it's torturing time! And of course, anyone who was never persuaded that Christianity is true is an "intransigent enemy" and deserves no mercy, right? Thinks Christianity is just another strange foreign religion? He's a malevolent God-hating fiend who deserves to be roasted over a slow fire forever. How about a Sikh, who devotedly observes the virtues of truth and truthful living, compassion and patience taught by the 10 gurus, and who studies their scriptures to learn the truths of God? Nope, he's a diabolical idolater who leads people to destruction (in hell, of course) and deserves to be tortured for all eternity. The agnostic who thinks there may be a God but he's not sure because he sees nothing tangible to make him believe? Well he can consider the tangible evidence of being racked by demons for the rest of forever; that'll persuade him! How about the old boy who grew up around Christians, and found too many of them to be sanctimonious frauds and decided their religion was as phony as they are? Into hell with him to be flayed alive forever and ever and ever and ever because that'll show him, won't it? How many examples would you like? Sorry, the "intransigent enemies" of God are strawmen intended to make painting God as a heartless find who inflicts eternal pain on those who have offended Him for no discernble reason whatsoever seem less ghastly.

Justice? Not even a pretense of it. He Who set limits on human punishments (an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, and no more) to insure that the punishment fit the crime, now metes out infinite punishment for decidedly finite crimes, like having not paid attention to preachers ,or being of a skeptical turn of mind that causes one to not to believe in anything supernatural at all.

Justice? Hardly! But your lot says we must call it justice because otherwise there's no way to believe such things and and not believe that God is simply the worst conceivable oriental despot raised to ruling the universe nstead of an obscure principality somewhere.

Fair play, if you're comfortable with the concept of God torturing (or having them tormented, He has people who do it for Him) people forever for having chosen the wrong religion, or none, and for no possible reason other than for His own gratification, and desire to see Him for any reason other than stark fear, wear yourself out.

That'll teach them! Bwahahahahah!

[quoteAs I said, if you wish to turn this into an academic debate and undermine the severity of eternal punishment to feel good, so be it.

And by all means, feel free to do the opposite, and assure yourself that you're going to be ridin' high with the saints in Heaven while all those rotten sinners who disrespected you, oops, I mean who disrespected God, will be writhing and screaming in the fire forever. Bet they're not laughing now, huh?

Good job God doesn't really destroy anyone in hell, isn't it? I mean, just because our Lord said He could do it doesn't mean He ever really does, does it? Nah, it was just a figure of speech. And that stuff about the wages of sin being death isn't true at all, is it? Neither is the part about eternal life being a gift of God. Everybody has eternal life anyway, so it's not really a gift, so no one ever actually dies. So the wages of sin isn't, and cannot be, death, it's eternal torture, and you have to be alive to be tortured. And eternal life isn't a gift, it's a design feature, something everyone has by default. St. Paul got it totally wrong. Shame your lot wasn't there to set him straight

And also with you.[/QUOTE]

Here is my response:

1 Cor 13:9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. 10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.

The truth will be revealed at the right time. The downside is that everyone's fate is sealed at death until the resurrection, hopefully, you believe the resurrection is real. As the rich man in Luke 16 begged for a second chance and was told it's not possible, many who share your views will find out too late that the lake of fire is very real.

 

[Trivalee]

[QUOTE="FineLinen, post: 76855820, member: 6357"
There is simply no passage of Scripture that speaks of "eternal judgment/aidios kolasis. NONE!

Every knee, every tongue, every dimension of heaven, earth & underworld IN union within the Name.[/QUOTE]
No scripture about eternal judgment, huh? I don't suppose Daniel 12:2 is in your bible?

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

 

[Trivalee]

Is that anything more than "church speak"?
Only a single segment of Christianity believes that.

It's not a church doctrine but what the Bible teaches.

 

[Trivalee]

That scripture actually supports both views, and frankly fits better with UR than ECT. We believe there will be a judgment. We also understand that mercy is an option in judgment.

Hebrews 9:27 NIV
Just as people are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment,

What mercy is there for a man that completely rejected the gospel of salvation?

 

[Trivalee]

A remnant: is mentioned in the following vss. Ezra 9:8, Ezra 9:14; Isaiah 1:9, Isaiah 10:20-21, Isaiah 11:11, Isaiah 24:13; Jeremiah 5:10; Ezekiel 6:8; Micah 5:3-8
I don't think the UR Bibles have these vss. they evidently believe that all mankind will be saved, the righteous and unrighteous alike, even after death.

But they couldn't be wrong if they tried. What's the essence of the warning against sin if sinners will ultimately be saved?

 

[Trivalee]

But God is not a man, or a woman. Unlike a human person, He does not have different sides. He is not merciful sometimes and just, as you would see it, at other times. Rather, His mercy is just and His justice is merciful at all times. He's quite unlike you and me and so you shouldn't equate Him as such.

If you believe that God is one-dimensional, then you don't know him.

• This is the same God that saw Israel and Judah taken into captivity for 70 years after they ignored warning after warning from his prophets to turn away from their wickedness!
• The God that allowed Rome to destroy his holy temple in Jerusalem and cart Israel away to start a nigh 1,950 years of exile from their homeland.

These and many more are mere judgments in time, eternal judgment will focus on the soul of man. Anyone that denies God's complete nature do so at their peril.

 

[Receivedgrace]

You kinda contradicted yourself there. God is outside the constraints of time, but He can'f save anyone after they're dead. Well, which is it? Either God can or He can't. Hint: any statement that includes "God can't" in it may automatically be considered hogwash. God most certainly can.

That's not what I said. I did not say God cannot but I assure you God will not.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
Ro 6:23 For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

 

[Der Alte]

="FineLinen, post: 76855820, member: 6357"]There is simply no passage of Scripture that speaks of "eternal judgment/aidios kolasis. NONE!
Every knee, every tongue, every dimension of heaven, earth & underworld IN union within the Name.

Since you quite evidently do not have an advanced degree in Koine Greek you are not qualified to present arguments about which Greek words should/should not occur in the N.T. or arguments about Greek grammar.

EOB Matthew:25:46 When he will answer them, saying: ‘Amen, I tell you: as much as you did not do it to one of the least of these, you did not do it to me.’ 46 These [ones on the left] will go away into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] punishment, [κόλασις/kolasis] but the righteous into eternal [αἰώνιος/aionios] life.”​

Greek has been the language of the Eastern Greek Orthodox church since its inception, 2000 years ago +/-. Note, the native Greek speaking Eastern Orthodox Greek scholars, translators of the EOB, translated “aionios,” in Matt 25:46, as “eternal,” NOT “age.”
Who better than the team of native Greek speaking scholars, translators of the Eastern Greek Orthodox Bible [EOB], quoted below, know the correct meaning of the Greek words in the N.T.?
Link to EOB online:
The New Testament ( The Eastern-Greek Orthodox Bible) : Free Download, Borrow, and Streaming : Internet Archive
…..The Greek word “kolasis” occurs only twice in the N.T., 1st occurrence Matt 25:46, above, and the 2nd occurrence 1 John 4:18., below.

EOB 1 John 4:18 There is no fear in love, but perfect love casts out fear, because fear is connected with punishment.[ κόλασις/kolasis] But the one who fears is not yet perfect in love.​

In the EOB the Greek word “kolasis” is translated “punishment” in both Matt 25:46 and 1 John 4:18. Some mis/uninformed folks claim “kolasis” really means “prune” or “correction.” However, that is an etymological fallacy. According to the EOB Greek scholars it means “punishment.”
Note: in 1 John 4:18 there is no correction, the one with “kolasis” is not made perfect. Thus “kolasis” does not/cannot mean “correction.”
…..It is acknowledged that modern Greek differs from koine Greek but I am confident that the Greek speaking EOB scholars, backed up by 2000 years +/- of Greek scholarship, are competent enough to know the correct meanings of old words which may have changed in meaning or are no longer used and to translate them correctly. Just as scholars today know the meaning of archaic words which occur in the KJV and translate them correctly.

 

[Saint Steven]

Christ also says we must become more righteous than the pharisees.

How difficult is that?
Anything better than self-righteousness surpasses the Pharisees and Teachers of the Law.

 

[Saint Steven]

It's not a church doctrine but what the Bible teaches.

These are in the Bible. I checked to make sure.

1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.

Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:15-16
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

1 Timothy 2:1-6
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

Romans 3:24 NIV
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Romans 9:16 NIV
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

James 2:13 NIV
... Mercy triumphs over judgment.

 

[Saint Steven]

What mercy is there for a man that completely rejected the gospel of salvation?

Salvation isn't something we do, it's something God, through Christ, has already done. In reality, we have all rejected the gospel on some level.

 

[Der Alte]

...

These are in the Bible. I checked to make sure.
1 John 2:2 NIV
He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
Romans 11:32
For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Titus 2:11 ESV
For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people,

1 Timothy 4:10
That is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe.

1 John 4:14 NIV
And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world.

1 Corinthians 15:22
For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive.

Romans 5:15-16
But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, overflow to the many! 16 Nor can the gift of God be compared with the result of one man’s sin: The judgment followed one sin and brought condemnation, but the gift followed many trespasses and brought justification.

Romans 5:18-19
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people,
so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man the many were made sinners,
so also through the obedience of the one man the many will be made righteous.

Colossians 1:19-20
For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20 and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.

1 Timothy 2:1-6
I urge, then, first of all, that petitions, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for all people— 2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness. 3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior, 4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth. 5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus, 6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

Romans 3:24 NIV
and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

Romans 9:16 NIV
It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

James 2:13 NIV
... Mercy triumphs over judgment.

The usual litany of out-of-context proof texts.

 

[All Becomes New]

How difficult is that?

Impossible without God.

Matthew 19:26 NAS20
“And looking at them, Jesus said to them, “With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.””

 

[Saint Steven]

Impossible without God.

So... the Pharisees didn't have God?

I have noticed lately that posts between you and I are not very constructive. Could we take a more positive direction?

 

[All Becomes New]

So... the Pharisees didn't have God?

Nope.

I have noticed lately that posts between you and I are not very constructive. Could we take a more positive direction?

I'm just responding to you.

 

[FineLinen]

[QUOTE="FineLinen, post: 76855820, member: 6357"
There is simply no passage of Scripture that speaks of "eternal judgment/aidios kolasis. NONE!

Every knee, every tongue, every dimension of heaven, earth & underworld IN union within the Name.

No scripture about eternal judgment, huh? I don't suppose Daniel 12:2 is in your bible?

Dan 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.