Saturday or Sunday Church?

[HIM]

The way most Christians likely see it, is it's about Christians not passing judgement upon each other regarding personal beliefs. It's a cross-reference to Colossians 2:16. See, that's me being forthright and to the point, rather than trying to be cryptic and or esoteric.

So your rebuttal is that most Christians see it? You have not addressed the points given.
Take care

 

[HIM]

Paul said that we don’t have to observe a certain day for The Lord in Romans 14 and he also said that we don’t have to observe the Sabbath days in Colossians 1:16. Your saying that we do have to observe a certain day for The Lord and we do have to observe the Sabbath. I would expect that if we were still required to observe a certain day for The Lord and we still have to observe the Saturday Sabbath that he would’ve mentioned that if that was his intention so as to be clear and avoid confusion.

Actually from Adam & Eve all the way to Noah after the flood man was to eat vegetables not meat.

Genesis 1:29-30

Noah was the first permitted to eat meat after the flood.

Genesis 9:3-4

Nowhere does it say to eat herbs only and the Sabbath is not mentioned in those text

 

[ozso]

So your rebuttal is that most Christians see it?

Not really, no.

You have not addressed the points given.

That's probably because I have a really hard time following you.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Nowhere does it say to eat herbs only and the Sabbath is not mentioned in those text

Why tell Noah that he can eat anything that moves if he was already allowed to do so?

 

[HIM]

Not really, no.

But that has been your stance.

That's probably because I have a really hard time following you.

So it is hard to follow that The Sabbath is not mention. And that the context is not in relation to the Word of God but men's opinions, thoughts, and ideas. This is emphasized by the fact that No where in scripture is it stated that we should only eat herbs. Which is discussed in verse 2.[

 

[Leaf473]

Still don't think we agree actually or on the same page, but that's okay.

What do you think we disagree about regarding the Passover?

 

[Leaf473]

650 in the OT and another 1050 in the NT -- this is not a thread about 1700 commands in scripture - it is a thread about "Saturday or Sunday Church" -- so no need to try and cram 1700 other topics into it.

How we deal with the other 600 or so laws in the law of Moses can give us insight into how to deal with the Sabbath laws imo.

 

[Leaf473]

And I think it is very important to admit that translators point out - that the word is not actually in the text and then I notice that in fact the Bible does not support treating every day as though it were the Bible Sabbath -- a day to refrain from secular activity.

so then -- we differ.

The word Alike is not translating a particular word, but it is required by the text imo.

This happens sometimes when going from Greek to English. It's especially common regarding definite articles.

I think you will understand what I mean if you make a serious attempt to translate the passage yourself. If you're unable to translate it, then it doesn't seem like you're in a position to criticize the translators.

I think it's important to know what all the passages in the Bible say on a subject before we decide for sure on a teaching.

 

[Leaf473]

Sometimes it is better not to assume. Very interesting. I keep wondering how some assume that where the word commandments found in the New Testament means the ten.

Actually, it doesn't imo. It may mean the 10 in some passages, but it's also applied to many other things.

 

[Leaf473]

In Acts 18:18, Paul took a vow involving shaving his head and the only vow described in the Bible that involves shaving your head is the Nazarite vow in Numbers 6, which involves making sin offerings. Likewise, in Acts 21:20-24, Paul planned to pay for the offerings of others who had undertaken a similar vow in order to disprove false rumors that he was teaching against the law and in order to show that he continued to live in obedience to it. In Hebrews 8:4, it speaks about offerings that were still being made in accordance with the law, so offerings did not cease with the death and resurrection of Jesus, but only ceased because of the destruction of the 2nd temple, and if all of Israel has accepted Jesus as the Messiah, then the 2nd temple would not have been destroyed, and there would still be offerings being made. Laws in regard to temple practice that weren't followed after the destruction of the 1st temple were once again followed after the construction of the 2nd temple, so there is nothing about the destruction of the 2nd temple that means that those laws are no longer valid, or that they won't be followed after the construction of the 3rd temple (Ezekiel 44-46). All of Scripture testifies about Christ (John 5:39-40), so we should live in a way that testifies about him by faithfully living in accordance with it as far as we are able.

Here's a piece that doesn't fit imo.

If people in churches such as Corinth were still required to make sin offerings at the temple in Jerusalem, it seems like we should see signs of a steady stream of pilgrims going from the gentile churches to Jerusalem.

It certainly can't be because there was very little sin in Corinth. We know there were divisions there, and divisions are a work of the flesh.

Also there would have been new converts coming in on a regular basis. They ought to have beaten a regular highway imo.

Yet, when Paul is traveling there, it sounds like he's mostly on his own, just his few regular traveling companions.

Granted, this is an argument from omission. But it's a pretty huge omission imo.

 

[Leaf473]

You are misapplying Romans 14. The Sabbath is not mention. And the context is not in relation to the Word of God but men's opinions, thoughts, and ideas. This is emphasized by the fact that No where in scripture is it stated that we should only eat herbs. Which is discussed in verse 2.

Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Rom 14:1 And receive him who is weak in the belief, not criticising his thoughts.
Rom 14:1 Receive one that is weak in the faith, not for disputes over opinions.
Rom 14:1 But accept those who are weak in faith, without disputing about ideas.
Rom 14:1 Accept anyone who is weak in faith, but not for the purpose of arguing over differences of opinion.

Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.

My impression is that the reason why Paul talks about some people eating only vegetables is that possibly that was a practice in Greek cities where it wasn't really possible to tell what meat had been sacrificed to idols.

 

[Leaf473]

No the question was where was the New Covenant first spoken not term.

It is in Deuteronomy

And this then leads to the idea that the laws that God writes on our hearts in the New Covenant are the statutes and commandments. But not the judgments and ordinances.

Am I following what you're saying, and have said in the past?

 

[BobRyan]

BobRyan said: ↑
And I think it is very important to admit that translators point out - that the word is not actually in the text and then I notice that in fact the Bible does not support treating every day as though it were the Bible Sabbath -- a day to refrain from secular activity.

so then -- we differ.

The word Alike is not translating a particular word,

True - it is "inserting one"

The "guess" that maybe we should "insert one" is done on a rather sketchy basis as opposed to Greek dictating "insert the English word - alike - here".

leaving out "the added English" wording makes the meaning clear that every day is being observed -- and the only case where this is allowed is in the Lev 23 list of Bible approved holy days. The Bible does allow them to "observe every day" in that list.

What is more -- the Bible condemns the practice of "observing" every day of the year as a day to avoid secular work. In fact Gal 4 condemns observing even one pagan day.

So yes ... "the point remains".

you choose to differ... and that is fine with me.

 

[Leaf473]

True - it is "inserting one"

The "guess" that maybe we should "insert one" is done on a rather sketchy basis as opposed to Greek dictating "insert the English word - alike - here".

leaving out "the added English" wording makes the meaning clear that every day is being observed -- and the only case where this is allowed is in the Lev 23 list of Bible approved holy days. The Bible does allow them to "observe every day" in that list.

What is more -- the Bible condemns the practice of "observing" every day of the year as a day to avoid secular work. In fact Gal 4 condemns observing even one pagan day.

So yes ... "the point remains".

you choose to differ... and that is fine with me.

Again, attempt to render a literal translation of the Greek words, and I think you'll see the problem with what you're saying.

 

[ozso]

But that has been your stance.

So it is hard to follow that The Sabbath is not mention. And that the context is not in relation to the Word of God but men's opinions, thoughts, and ideas. This is emphasized by the fact that No where in scripture is it stated that we should only eat herbs. Which is discussed in verse 2.[

wendykvw posted Romans 14:10 in regard to Christians judging one another as also found in Colossians 2:16. And you went off track and became preoccupied with eating herbs/vegetables mentioned in Romans 14:2. So yes it's hard to follow what track you're on.

 

[ozso]

My impression is that the reason why Paul talks about some people eating only vegetables is that possibly that was a practice in Greek cities where it wasn't really possible to tell what meat had been sacrificed to idols.

Which has nothing to do with why wendykvw posted Romans 14:10

 

[BobRyan]

My impression is that the reason why Paul talks about some people eating only vegetables is that possibly that was a practice in Greek cities where it wasn't really possible to tell what meat had been sacrificed to idols.

"Impressions" are funny that way.

In 1 Cor 8 Paul explains the whole thing so as to leave nothing to "impressions".

11 For through your knowledge the one who is weak is ruined, the brother or sister for whose sake Christ died. 12 And so, by sinning against the brothers and sisters and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against Christ. 13 Therefore, if food causes my brother to sin, I will never eat meat again, so that I will not cause my brother to sin.

It had everything to do with their fear of eating meat offered to idols as was mentioned in Acts 15 regarding gentiles.

 

[BobRyan]

Paul said that we don’t have to observe a certain day for The Lord in Romans 14 and he also said that we don’t have to observe the Sabbath days in Colossians 1:16. .

Rom 14 does not even deal with the idea of "observing no day". Nor does it mention the weekly Sabbath.

Col 1:16 does not mention the Sabbath. Rather - it says
"16 for by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him."

 

[BobRyan]

Again, attempt to render a literal translation of the Greek words,

Again - there is no Greek word in the text for "alike".

We could always have this same point posted another 10 times but I don't see the point in it.

I already agree that you and I differ. What else is there?

 

[ozso]

Rom 14 does not even deal with the idea of "observing no day". Nor does it mention the weekly Sabbath.

Col 1:16 does not mention the Sabbath. Rather - it says
"16 for by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him."

You're right, that was most likely a typo since Colossians 2:16 says, Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. Which cross references with Romans 14:1-10.