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Saturday or Sunday Church?

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Aussie Pete

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Sorry you don't understand. God knows us through our obedience to Him according to God's Word. 1 John 2:3-5, Matthew 7:21-23
You don't understand and you are wrong.

God knew me before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4, Romans 8:29)
Knowing God is to have eternal life (John 17:3)
The work that God requires of me is to believe Jesus (John 6:29)

God's commands are not the Law alone. We live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Do you not know that Jesus is God's word? (John 1:1). I live by the faith of Christ (Galatians 2:20) and I am delivered by His life (Romans 5:10) I've been born again for 50 years. Not once has God led me to set aside Saturday as anything special. The sabbath has been replaced with the Lord's day (and they are not the same thing). Every day to me is the Lord's day.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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You don't understand and you are wrong.

God knew me before the foundation of the world (Ephesians 1:4, Romans 8:29)
Knowing God is to have eternal life (John 17:3)
The work that God requires of me is to believe Jesus (John 6:29)

God's commands are not the Law alone. We live by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. Do you not know that Jesus is God's word? (John 1:1). I live by the faith of Christ (Galatians 2:20) and I am delivered by His life (Romans 5:10) I've been born again for 50 years. Not once has God led me to set aside Saturday as anything special. The sabbath has been replaced with the Lord's day (and they are not the same thing). Every day to me is the Lord's day.

God knows everyone, but His people obey His commandments, which is what these verses mean 1 John 2:3-5, Matthew 7:21-23 because His sheep hear His voice and He knows them (1 John 2:3) and they follow Him. They believe Him and the work He does in the Father’s name (Jesus came to magnify His Fathers law and did not come to destroy God's law) Isaiah 42:21- Matthew 5:17-30

25 Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in My Father’s name, they bear witness of Me. 26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.”

Like most promises of the scripture it is conditional.

In this verse these are the conditions

1. You must believe the work Jesus does is in the Fathers name. (God wrote His laws in our hearts and minds in the New Convent Hebrews 8:10 and Jesus is the Mediator of His Fathers covenant.)
2. His sheep hear His voice. - Jesus said If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15. It applies to all of the teachings of Jesus including obeying
3. Jesus knows us- Jesus says He knows us though our obedience to His commandments 1 John 2:3 and doesn’t know us when we disobey 1 John 2:4-5, Matthew 7:21-23
4. His sheep follow Him- Jesus kept the Sabbath so if its good enough for Jesus who kept the Sabbath and all of His Fathers commandments His whole life, its good enough for His sheep who follow His example Luke 4:16, John 15:10, 1 Peter 2:21-22
 
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SabbathBlessings

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You are still a slave to the old covenant of Law. I've come into the glorious liberty of the children of God. You can stay in the shadow, I prefer the Light. I do not use my freedom as a licence to sin. Neither do I allow myself to be judged by the Law. I died to the Law. It no longer applies. (Galatians 2:19). You don't understand the meaning of the Cross. Romans 10 explains the relationship of Law to the Christian.
Romans 10:8
8But what does it say? “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” that is, the word of faith we are proclaiming: 9that if you confess with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. 10For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.

It says NOTHING about obeying the Law.

Faith does not delete God’s laws instead it upholds it according to the same author. Romans 3:31

Paul who wrote Romans 10 also said:

Romans 8:5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so.8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.

Romans 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?
 
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BNR32FAN

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Does grace allow you to covet, or worship other gods? Of course not and James says we break one of the commandments quoting from the Ten we break them all James 2:10-12 Jesus also saying we should keep the least of the commandments Matthew 5:19 (which means all). The least is not the one that uses the words “holy” “blessed” and the one God said “Remember”.

James was also quoting from the book of Exodus so by your own logic you would still be required to observe the Passover and all of the stipulations associated with it since God specifically stated that it is to be observed for all generations. Now you’ll probably argue that it’s not one of the 10 commandments which is irrelevant because it was still a commandment of God to be observed for all generations, at least according to your logic that is. You say that Jesus is your Passover which is fine but still it doesn’t specifically state that you no longer have to keep the commandments associated with it. And when I say Jesus is my rest that doesn’t sit well with you because your argument is that Hebrews 4 doesn’t specifically state that we no longer have to observe the Sabbath. So again your not upholding the same standard by which your judging others. You tried to say that the Passover sacrifice is no longer needed by quoting Hebrews 10 which is only referring to sin offerings which the Passover sacrifice is not a sin offering it’s a ceremonial ritual. Jews are forbidden to eat sin offerings, they are commanded by God to eat all of the Passover sacrifice.

You are judging others for not keeping God’s commandments while at the same time your not keeping them yourself. Furthermore your setting a double standard by saying that God said to remember the Sabbath so we must observe it because you claim that nothing in the scriptures say that we no longer have to observe it while ignoring the fact that God commanded that the Passover be observed for all generations and there are no verses saying that we no longer have to observe that commandment.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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James was also quoting from the book of Exodus so by your own logic you would still be required to observe the Passover and all of the stipulations associated with it since God specifically stated that it is to be observed for all generations. Now you’ll probably argue that it’s not one of the 10 commandments which is irrelevant because it was still a commandment of God to be observed for all generations, at least according to your logic that is. You say that Jesus is your Passover which is fine but still it doesn’t specifically state that you no longer have to keep the commandments associated with it. And when I say Jesus is my rest that doesn’t sit well with you because your argument is that Hebrews 4 doesn’t specifically state that we no longer have to observe the Sabbath. So again your not upholding the same standard by which your judging others. You tried to say that the Passover sacrifice is no longer needed by quoting Hebrews 10 which is only referring to sin offerings which the Passover sacrifice is not a sin offering it’s a ceremonial ritual. Jews are forbidden to eat sin offerings, they are commanded by God to eat all of the Passover sacrifice.

You are judging others for not keeping God’s commandments while at the same time your not keeping them yourself. Furthermore your setting a double standard by saying that God said to remember the Sabbath so we must observe it because you claim that nothing in the scriptures say that we no longer have to observe it while ignoring the fact that God commanded that the Passover be observed for all generations and there are no verses saying that we no longer have to observe that commandment.
Ok, we are going in circles. Both the Passover and Hebrews 4 has been discussed in detail Here Saturday or Sunday Church? and Saturday or Sunday Church?

I am not judging anyone and my judgment means nothing, it is God’s judgement that we should all be concerned about. If one wants to obey God and do His will maybe you can answer these questions to support your argument on this topic and please provide scripture support.

1. What day did God bless?
2. What day did God sanctify?
3. What day does God say is His holy day?
4. Which days did God do all of His work?
5. What day did God rest?
6. What day did God command us to keep holy?
7. Which days did God command us to work and do all thy labors?
8. Which day did God tell us to Remember?
9. Which did did Jesus keep His whole life?
10. Which day is a commandment of God written by the finger of God?
11. Please point out the scripture that says we do not need to obey the commandments of God?

Jesus tells us to teach each other the commandments Matthew 5:19-30 and quotes directly from the Ten Commandments, the work of His Father because His righteousness by obeying what He asks is what matters, when we obey what God asks it shows you place your faith and trust in Him and believe what He asks instead of faith and trust in ourselves for our own righteousness which is not sanctifying. John 17:17, Ezekiel 20:12
 
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Bob S

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Ok, we are going in circles. Both the Passover and Hebrews 4 has been discussed in detail.

I am not judging anyone and my judgment means nothing,
Which is it SB? Are you saying you do not judge or that you do judge, but it means nothing?

it is God’s judgement that we should all be concerned about. If one wants to obey God and do His will maybe you can answer these questions to support your argument on this topic and please provide scripture support.

1. What day did God bless?
2. What day did God sanctify?
3. What day does God say is His holy day?
4. Which days did God do all of His work?
5. What day did God rest?
6. What day did God commandment us to keep holy?
Are you Jewish SB? You keep writing "us" when it was the Israelites He told to keep the day holy.

7. Which days did God command us to work and do all thy labors?
It was not "us"; it was them.

8. Which day did God tell us to Remember?
It was not "us"; it was them.

9. Which did did Jesus keep?
Jesus was one of them.

10. Which day is a commandment of God written by the finger of God?
What was more important the Sabbath command He wrote with His finger or the words He spoke with His voice. You know the love commands in Leviticus and Deuteronomy?

11. Please point out the scripture that says we do not need to obey the commandments of God?
Which commands, the old covenant commands or the new command Jesus gave us?

Jesus tells us to teach each other the commandments and quotes directly from the Ten Commandments, the work of Hid Father because His righteousness by obeying what He asks is what matters, when we obey what God asks it shows you place your faith and trust in Him and believe what He asks instead of faith and trust in ourselves for our own righteousness which is not sanctifying. John 17:17, Ezekiel 20:12
Jesus was speaking to those under the Law, we are not under the Law.
 
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BNR32FAN

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1. What day did God bless?
2. What day did God sanctify?
3. What day does God say is His holy day?

The day after He worked for 6 days in a row.


4. Which days did God do all of His work?

Six days


5. What day did God rest?
6. What day did God command us to keep holy?

The day after we work six days in a row


8. Which day did God tell us to Remember?

The day after we work six days in a row and the 14th day of Nisan.


9. Which did did Jesus keep His whole life?

All of the Sabbaths and festivals including the Passover as per the Jewish law. And we’ve already learned that you don’t follow that example.


10. Which day is a commandment of God written by the finger of God?

Nobody knows because they’re not disclosed in the scriptures.


11. Please point out the scripture that says we do not need to obey the commandments of God?

There are verses that state that we no longer need to keep certain commandments. Colossians 2:14-17, Acts 15, and Hebrews 10 are three examples that you yourself have even quoted. Here’s a quote provided below.

We follow the New Covenant, the only laws that ended as per the scriptures are the law of ordinances/ceremonial laws found in the law of Moses. Colossians 2:14 Hebrews 10. This includes all the sacrificial system of food and animal offerings for the forgiveness of sin which pointed to Jesus when He became our perfect Sacrifice for our sins and sanctification. Circumcision ended and baptism replaced it as a symbol being cleansed from our sins when we choose to walk with Christ in His Spirit. What has not changed are the commandments of God as Paul clearly tells us Circumcision is nothing and uncircumcision is nothing, but keeping the commandments of God is what matters. 1 Cor 7:19


Jesus tells us to teach each other the commandments Matthew 5:19-30 and quotes directly from the Ten Commandments,

He paraphrased a few of the commandments contained in Exodus 20 but He didn’t say a word about the Sabbath now did He?
 
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BNR32FAN

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What was more important the Sabbath command He wrote with His finger or the words He spoke with His voice. You know the love commands in Leviticus and Deuteronomy?

Actually nobody really knows which commandments were written on the stone tablets, God kept on giving commandments to Moses on Mt Sinai for the next 11 chapters. In Exodus 31 the scriptures tell us that the tablets contained the commandments God gave to Moses on Mt Sinai and they also tell us that there were 10 commandments written on the stone tablets but it doesn’t tell us which ten were written on the stones.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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The day after He worked for 6 days in a row.




Six days




The day after we work six days in a row




The day after we work six days in a row and the 14th day of Nisan.




All of the Sabbaths and festivals including the Passover as per the Jewish law. And we’ve already learned that you don’t follow that example.




Nobody knows because they’re not disclosed in the scriptures.




There are verses that state that we no longer need to keep certain commandments. Colossians 2:14-17, Acts 15, and Hebrews 10 are three examples that you yourself have even quoted. Here’s a quote provided below.






He paraphrased a few of the commandments contained in Exodus 20 but He didn’t say a word about the Sabbath now did He?

Notice how not one of these points to the first day as being the holy day of the Lord thy God, the day God blessed, sanctified and the day God commanded us to keep holy.

The weekly seventh day Sabbath found in Exodus 20, is not the same as the annual sabbath(s) feasts days as I have shown a few times now through scripture. The Sabbath started right at creation and was made for man according to Jesus Mark 2:27 and man was created on the sixth day Genesis 1:26 right before the very first Sabbath in the presence of God. Genesis 2:1-3, which is what the saints will go back to once everything is restored Isaiah 66:23. Not once does it say we are to worship the Lord on the first day on this earth or in the new earth or heaven.

God wants man to keep a memorial of His creation which is why God gave the commandment and said to Remember and points us back to Creation:

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

The Sabbath was before sin, the annual sabbaths (feast days) came after sin and are for the forgiveness of sin and that is breaking God's law which includes profaning His Sabbath and God repeatedly asks us not to do in scripture. Isaiah 56, Isaiah 58:13, Ezekiel 20:12-13, Ezekiel 20:20 because the Sabbath is a commandment of God, whereas Sunday-keeping is not a commandment of God, but is a tradition of man. Jesus said to obey the commandments of God quoting directly from the Ten Matthew 15:3-9 over mans traditions.
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Actually nobody really knows which commandments were written on the stone tablets, God kept on giving commandments to Moses on Mt Sinai for the next 11 chapters. In Exodus 31 the scriptures tell us that the tablets contained the commandments God gave to Moses on Mt Sinai and they also tell us that there were 10 commandments written on the stone tablets but it doesn’t tell us which ten were written on the stones.
Weird, it shows them in my bible as I have pointed out now a few times Exodus 20 NKJV - The Ten Commandments - And God spoke - Bible Gateway Exodus 20:1 And God spoke all these words: (biblehub.com)

I don't think we have a God who sets up His children and gives them commandments personally written on stone by His own finger Exodus 34:18 that we will be judged by James 2:10-12 but no one can identify.

But we have free will to believe what we want.
 
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BNR32FAN

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Leaf473

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By what standard do you think that God will judge the world if not by His nature which has been revealed through His law?

Christians often want to follow mishpatim in regard to justice and righteousness, but don't want to follow the chukim even though the Spirit has the role of leading us to obey them, and chukim are often translated as statutes, so it is surprising that they would think that statues remain while judgements have ended in spite of Psalms 119:160 saying that mishpatim are eternal.

In any case, if you look at Biblehub to see how various translations translate those words, there is not a lot of consistency and multiple words with distinct meanings can be translated using the same English word without nuance, such as "command" or "ordinance". For example, the Greek word "dogma" can be translated as "ordinance", "decree", or "edict" and is used 5 times in the NT. Two times it used in regard to a decree by Caesar (Luke 2:1, Acts 17:7), one time to a decree by the Jerusalem Council (Acts 16:4), and the other two times are in Ephesians 2:15 and Colossians 2:14. So someone can read Ephesians 2:15 and Colossians 2:14 and think that all ordinances, decrees, and edicts have been ended and then compound their error by thinking that this is referring to ending what God has commanded in His law when all of God's laws are eternal.
Yes, God will judge the world by His nature which has been revealed through His law.

But as we talked about earlier, his laws change over time. Or how we apply them changes over time, if you prefer that wording.

First, plants only.
Then, all animals.
Later, only some animals.

And if you're correct about the word for food in Genesis 9 meaning clean foods, that's really cool. It means that all animals would be considered clean food.

Yes, I know that Noah knew about clean and unclean animals. But maybe that didn't apply to eating or something.
 
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Leaf473

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What we grapple with is different interpretations of Scripture.

Obeying the Holy Spirit is obeying the Word of God.

Often but not always this comes from reading Scripture.

It is pretty clear that given the strength of argument denominational spirits fuel much of what is presented.

Sadly the Paul/Apollos problem is still very much alive.

If we all were to seek Him rather than traditional thinking, this would soon disappear.
Amen. This came to mind, for whatever reason:
"That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection"
Philippians 3
 
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Leaf473

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The laws are not “loose” if one is following scripture. The ceremonial feast days -called annual sabbath(s) is not one of the Ten Commandments. If you do not have a good foundation and understanding of the Law of God- the Ten Commandments, the only commandments God both spoke and wrote with His own finger. Only the Ten Commandments was placed in the ark of the Covenant in the Most Holy of God’s Temple where He dwells which is also revealed in heaven Revelation 11:19, you will have a really hard time understanding a lot of the scriptures and the New Testament.

The "shadow laws" for animal sacrifices and sin offering under an earthly Sanctuary and the Levitical Priesthood with the physical sign of circumcision from the Mosaic book of the old covenant *Exodus 24:7written by Moses are not the same as Gods' eternal laws written on stone by the finger of God that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken under the new covenant *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11.

The ceremonial sabbaths all pointed to Christ and His great sacrifice- Christ became our Passover. The seventh day Sabbath points us to creation- God wants us to Remember everything He did for us at Creation which is our very existence. The seventh day Sabbath was before sin Genesis 2:1-3, the ceremonial annuals sabbath(s) came after sin. God is going to restore things back to His original plan at His Second Coming which includes His holy day of worship Isaiah 66:22-23, not what was changed by man that we are warned by in scripture. Daniel 7:25, Matthew 15:3-9

1 Corinthians 5:7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.

So when we sacrifice lambs it is showing that Christ sacrifice was not sufficient. Christ took the place for the forgiveness of all sin at the cross when we repent and turn to Him in obedience. The Ten Commandment still has the same role as it always had, and that it points out sin so we know what not to do. God’s righteousness, His work we place our trust not our work when we believe our righteousness over God’s. We do not sanctify ourselves God does through our obedience to Him. Ezekiel 20:12

Which is why Paul says what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19 and the saints in the New Testament still keep the commandments of God and the faith in Jesus Christ Revelation 14:12

It is impossible to follow the Spirit by breaking the literal commandments because the Spirit is greater than the letter. If you are keeping the Spirit of the commandments means they are in your heart and the letter will automatically be kept and will be a fruit of our faith by not worshipping other gods, or bowing to images, stealing, coveting etc. There is a spiritual aspect to everyone of the Ten that is greater than the letter, but if following by the Spirit the letter is kept. Jesus came to magnify the law of God and it starts with our thoughts- if we turn thoughts of hate to thoughts of love- thou shalt not murder would automatically be kept. This is keeping the commandments by the Spirit which also includes the Sabbath commandment which we rest in Christ on the Sabbath day by having communion with Him and not literally resting all day and being lazy.
Exodus 12 says that the Israelites were to keep the Passover "as a feast throughout your generations by an ordinance forever."

If you celebrate it differently than the letters that describe it, then you're not following it tightly, but loosely.

And I'm in favor of that.
Peace be with you, my sister!
 
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SabbathBlessings

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Exodus 12 says that the Israelites were to keep the Passover "as a feast throughout your generations by an ordinance forever."

If you celebrate it differently than the letters that describe it, then you're not following it tightly, but loosely.

And I'm in favor of that.
Peace be with you, my sister!
You have to follow along the scriptures, which I have already provided. If Jesus became our Passover how is that following the scripture loosely if that's what the scripture says? Trying to justify one thing that is spelled out in scripture and trying to apply it to something that is not, is not following the scriptures.
 
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Leaf473

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Romans 14:5
One person regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Each person must be fully convinced in his own mind.

It is amazing what lengths some go to to avoid the clear reading of the text.

No wonder God did not choose to give authority to the scholars.

1 Cor 1
20 So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish.
It's hard to get around that "every day" imo.
 
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Leaf473

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ok -- but I think the title of this thread is "Saturday or Sunday church"
True, within the larger context of the Sabbath and the law. The issue I was dealing with there was
since God's law is permanent, how do we go about keeping those parts of it that we are not going to literally do?
 
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BobRyan

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True, within the larger context of the Sabbath and the law. The issue I was dealing with there was
since God's law is permanent, how do we go about keeping those parts of it that we are not going to literally do?

And of course even the non-SDA non-Bible Sabbath groups like Baptist Confession of Faith Sectn 19, and Westminster Confession of Faith - sectn 19 had that answer.

Apparently your interest is in the non-Sabbath and non-Ten Commandments section of the "Saturday or Sunday" thread -- which is pretty much nill based on the subject title.
 
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BobRyan

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It's hard to get around that "every day" imo.

especially when keeping even one of the pagan days is condemned in Gal 4 and so Rom 14 only deals with the bible approved list of annual days in Lev 23.
 
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Leaf473

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The italics in Rom 14:5 indicate that the word "alike" is an insert and not part of the actual text.

So then "one man regards/observes one day above another, while another regards every day" speaking of the Bible approved annual holy days in Lev 23.

By contrast in Gal 4 some people who were former pagans "returned again" to observance of certain pagan days and Paul condemned it.
Based on my amateur understanding of greek, it's required by the construction.

I didn't read every single translation available here, but the ones I read all agreed.
Romans 14:5 - Bible Gateway
 
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