Saturday or Sunday Church?

[Carl Emerson]

No bible text says "if opinions vary then ignore what scripture says - because the subject must be complicated and therefore must not matter"

Who claimed that - you must be quoting someone else...

 

[HIM]

Why would I not ???

I have found walking with Jesus in the Spirit, obeying the promptings of His Spirit within, leads me in righteousness and good fruit.

This has not come easy but I testify that He wants us to enjoy Him in life and partner in His purposes.

See my testimony here...

Jesus's Ministry

I read nothing at all but scripture for over 5 years while being restored and formed.

So I walk with Him in His seventh day of creation every day in peace.

You can hammer away at Law all you like while I go about the business of walking in His miraculous purpose and seeing beautiful fruit.

Those who really want His blessed life will find it as He is faithful.

I speak from a journey of much blood and tears.

Those who are my judge are in close fellowship - not anonymous voices from cyberspace.

No God is our judge through His Word. So when our words don’t match up with the Word to which we will be judge we have a problem

 

[SabbathBlessings]

But you have interpretations that differ with others. Are you claiming not to interpret? Are you claiming to always hear what God says about a passage of scripture ???

These scriptures our Savior said from His own mouth. . .

showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. Exodus 20:6
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments and His commandments are not burdensome 1 John 5:3
If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15

…will never turn into this if one is seeking Truth from God's Word and to do His will:

showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep break My commandments. Exodus 20:6
For this is the love of God, that we keep break His commandments, And His commandments are not burdensome legalism 1 John 5:3
If you love Me, keep break My commandments John 14:15

And these Words God said and God wrote that is so easy to understand. . .

but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. Exodus 20:10

…will never turn into this:

but the seventh first day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. Exodus 20:10

 

[Carl Emerson]

No God is our judge through His Word. So when our words don’t match up with the Word to which we will be judge we have a problem

Of course and I welcome correction - however re-reading the dialogue it seems you have misunderstood my position.

 

[Carl Emerson]

These scriptures our Savior said from His own mouth. . .

showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments. Exodus 20:6
For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments and His commandments are not burdensome 1 John 5:3
If you love Me, keep My commandments John 14:15

…will never turn into this if one is seeking Truth from God's Word and to do His will:

showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep break My commandments. Exodus 20:6
For this is the love of God, that we keep break His commandments, And His commandments are not burdensome legalism 1 John 5:3
If you love Me, keep break My commandments John 14:15

And these Words God said and God wrote that is so easy to understand. . .

but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. Exodus 20:10

…will never turn into this:

but the seventh first day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. Exodus 20:10

Sadly you miss the point completely.

Anyone walking in a love relationship with Him will have a righteousness better than the Pharisees.

His Spirit within leads us into all truth.

His Sabbath Peace is continuous for those in faith.

We set our whole lives aside for Him, not just one day a week.

We are no longer under the Law of Moses, but under the Law of the Spirit which is His very voice constantly within.

Those being led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God.

Enjoy your Shabbat.

 

[guevaraj]

Sadly you miss the point completely.

Brother, happy Sabbath! When you test the spirit of your point of view with the word of God, it fails the test.

Anyone walking in a love relationship with Him will have a righteousness better than the Pharisees.

The surpassing righteousness after Jesus, not possible before Jesus, is the additional Eleventh Commandment of "following" His example.

His Spirit within leads us into all truth.

The Holy Spirit leads us into all truth since the beginning in the guarantied word of God through prophets.

His Sabbath Peace is continuous for those in faith.

His Sabbath truth is the corrected "day" since God made the world different from Judaism's human tradition since Joshua.

We set our whole lives aside for Him, not just one day a week.

We would starve, unable to work for a living if we kept every day as God asks us to remember to keep His holy day.

We are no longer under the Law of Moses, but under the Law of the Spirit which is His very voice constantly within.

The law of Moses is the law of the spirit, surpassed by adding a new Eleventh Commandment not possible before Jesus, to "follow" His example.

Those being led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God.

Those led by the Spirit obey all of Jesus' Eleven Commandments, neglecting none of them.

Enjoy your Shabbat.

Thank you! I do feel privileged to enter the Sabbath as God did on the seventh day of creation.

So God’s rest is there for people to enter, but those who first heard this good news failed to enter because they disobeyed God. So God set another time for entering his rest, and that time is today. God announced this through David much later in the words already quoted: “Today when you hear his voice, don’t harden your hearts.” Now if Joshua had succeeded in giving them this rest, God would not have spoken about another day of rest still to come. So there is a special rest still waiting for the people of God. For all who have entered into God’s rest have rested from their labors, just as God did after creating the world. So let us do our best to enter that rest. But if we disobey God, as the people of Israel did, we will fall. (Hebrews 4:6-11 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Carl Emerson]

Since when do you have an exclusive take on what God is meaning ???

I may fail your test - which concerns me not.

His test is a totally different issue.

Enjoy your day.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Sadly you miss the point completely.

Anyone walking in a love relationship with Him will have a righteousness better than the Pharisees.

His Spirit within leads us into all truth.

His Sabbath Peace is continuous for those in faith.

We set our whole lives aside for Him, not just one day a week.

We are no longer under the Law of Moses, but under the Law of the Spirit which is His very voice constantly within.

Those being led by the Spirit of God are the Sons of God.

Enjoy your Shabbat.

Sadly you miss the point of these clear scriptures and are inserting your words into God’s Words that is easy to understand to something that suits you instead. Notice these verses are conditional and the condition is spelled out. Your argument appears to be with the text.

We should love God on His terms, not ours. He is the Creator- we are His creation. When we decide to insert our words into God’s Word you are telling Him that you know better than He. When you obey what God asks you are placing your faith and trust in Him and believe what He asks is for our own good. We are to depend on God’s righteousness, and not depend on our own works or version of right-doing.

No one is saying we don’t worship God seven days a week, but we still keep the Sabbath and holy day of our Lord thy God per the commandment of God that is written in everyone’s Bibles. Exodus 20:8-11

 

[HIM]

Of course and I welcome correction - however re-reading the dialogue it seems you have misunderstood my position.

No your position is clear. Per example The following is not From God at all and can not be proven using Scripture only.

His Sabbath Peace is continuous for those in faith.

And The fact that you speak this next quote show how much you don't understand.

We set our whole lives aside for Him, not just one day a week.

 

[returntosender]

Christ rose on Easter Sunday and Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all four books you can find clearly teach that Christ rose the first day of the week, now the Gregorian calendar and the romish calendar have never had a mistake and always Sunday is the first day of the week but above that point God has preserved the Jews and they have never lost track of the seventh day Sabbath or what they call in Hebrew "Rosh Chodesh" which is the head of the month/the first day of each month which is called the new moon, traditionalism is why people attend Church on Sunday, so the true biblical day to attend church is Saturday.

God spoke six days, it was created and on the seventh day God say's remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy, it's God's Word.

If you feel that way you should be an SDA. seventh day Adventist.

 

[guevaraj]

Since when do you have an exclusive take on what God is meaning ??? I may fail your test - which concerns me not. His test is a totally different issue. Enjoy your day.

Brother, your point of view contradicts Jesus' answer when asked: "what should I do to inherit eternal life?". Jesus says that there were only ten commandments in the covenant before Jesus and He says in the same passage quoted that there is one more commandment in the new covenant that was not possible before Jesus, to "follow" His example.

Once a religious leader asked Jesus this question: “Good Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked him. “Only God is truly good. But to answer your question, you know the commandments: ‘You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. Honor your father and mother.’” The man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.” When Jesus heard his answer, he said, “There is still one thing you haven’t done. Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Luke 18:18-22 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[Leaf473]

The Hebrew word "yada" refers to knowledge gained by experience, relationship, or intimacy, such as in Genesis 4:1, where Adam knew Eve, she conceived, and gave birth to Cain. In Exodus 33:13, Moses wanted God to be gracious to him by teaching him His way that he might know (yada) Him and Israel too, in 1 Kings 2:1-3, God taught how to walk in His way through His Torah, and in John 17:3, eternal life is knowing God and Jesus, so that is the goal of the Torah, which is also why Jesus said in Matthew 7:23 that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them. In Jeremiah 9:3 and 9:6, they did know God and refuse to know him because in 9:13, they had forsaken the Torah, while in 9:24, those who know God know that He delights in practicing steadfast love, justice, and righteousness in all of the earth, so delighting in experiencing those and other aspects of God's nature through our obedience to the Torah is the way to know God, and the Son, who is the exact expression of God's nature (Hebrews 1:3). God's nature is eternal, so His instructions for how to act in accordance with His nature are therefore also eternal, so the way know God does not change over time. In 1 John 2:4, those who say that they know Jesus, but don't obey His commandments are liars, and in 1 John 3:4-6, those who continue to sin in transgression of the Torah have neither seen nor known him.

Noah was temporarily instructed to eat the same foot as the other animals while on the Ark for obvious reasons (Genesis 6:21), so that was the lifting of that prohibition, not granting something new. In Genesis 7:2, Noah was given instructions for what to do with clean and unclean animals without being told how to tell the difference, and in 8:20, he knew the offer a clean animal, so he must have already been given instructions in that regard and knew not to eat unclean animals, and it wouldn't make sense to interpret the Bible as God flip flopping back and forth about whether or not something is an abomination against His eternal nature. The word used in Genesis 9:3 for what Noah was permitted to eat does not refer to predators of scavengers, which is what unclean animals tend to be. In 1 Peter 1:16, we are told to have a holy conduct for God is holy, which is a quote from Leviticus 11:44-45, where God instructed against eating unclean animals, and God's holiness is eternal, therefore so is the way to know Him through acting in accordance with His holiness.

I'm sure you agree that at the beginning humans were told to eat only plants. Later they are told to eat animals, and commanded to eat the Passover lamb. That's a change imo.

Also, chickens are scavengers, are they not?

 

[Leaf473]

Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers how to obey the Law of Moses by word and by example and he did not establish the New Covenant for the purpose of undermining anything that he spent his ministry teaching, but rather the New Covenant still involves following it (Jremiah 31:33)



It is possible that Paul went to synagogue because he wanted to continue to obey what God has commanded in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow? In 1 Corinthians 11:1, we are instructed to be imitators of Paul as he is an imitator of Christ. In Acts 21:0-24, Paul rejoiced that tens of thousands of Jews were coming to faith who were all zealous for doing good works in obedience to the Torah, which was in accordance with believing in what Christ gave himself to accomplish on the cross (Titus 2:14), and he planned to take steps to disprove false rumors that he was teaching against the Torah and to show that he continued to live in obedience to it. In Acts 23:6, Paul claimed to be a Pharisee, and Pharisees are Torah observant. Acts 24:14, Paul testified that he continued to believe everything in the Torah and the Prophets.



In 1 John 5:3, to love God is to obey His commandments, which are not burdensome. In regard to Matthew 11:28-30, Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to the Torah, and he was inviting people to come to him for rest and to learn from him, and said that his yoke was easy and his burden light. By Jesus saying that we will find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where the Torah is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls. In Acts 2:38, when Peter instructed His audience to repent and be baptized for the forgiveness of sins, the Torah was how they knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so that would include repenting from breaking the Sabbath.



I agree that there has been a much longer period of time after the destruction of the 2nd temple, though all of God's laws are eternal, so that is for a much longer period of time.



Wisdom that has no practical application is not wisdom, but is useless clutter of no value to know, so wisdom can't be extracted from the law apart from practical application. The Bible does not teach us wisdom for its own sake, but for the sake of doing.



While we should seek to do whatever it is that God instructs us to do through His law, there can be different understandings of how to correctly do what God has instructed, so if we see thinks like Moabites and eunuchs being accepted into the general assembly, then we should question whether it is correct to understand Deuteronomy 23:1-3 as referring to the general assembly instead of specific governing assembly. For example, foreigners from other countries can be welcome to become legal citizens of the US, but are not able to become the President, so there can be good reasons to avoid giving foreigners governing authority while still welcoming them into the assembly. That's different from looking for a reason to avoid obeying what God has commanded.



Their marriage would not have been sanctioned if she has not been a follower of God who was welcomed into the congregation of Israel (1 Kings 11:1-2, Ezra 9:1-2, 2 Corinthians 6:14)

(that's a long post. I'm going to answer it in parts.)

I was talking about the idea of the Lord's Supper being used to fulfill the Passover commandment. If a person takes that approach, they probably have a loose approach to following the law.

The law can be followed loosely, or what some people might call the spirit of the law,
Or it can be followed tightly, the letter of the law.

We see Jesus's ministry differently. He was living under the old covenant, and I think he was showing how to live under the old Covenant to its fullest.

In the new covenant, Torah is written on our heart. But it's not letters, imo. It's ideas, the spirit of the law.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

(that's a long post. I'm going to answer it in parts.)

I was talking about the idea of the Lord's Supper being used to fulfill the Passover commandment. If a person takes that approach, they probably have a loose approach to following the law.

The law can be followed loosely, or what some people might call the spirit of the law,
Or it can be followed tightly, the letter of the law.

We see Jesus's ministry differently. He was living under the old covenant, and I think he was showing how to live under the old Covenant to its fullest.

In the new covenant, Torah is written on our heart. But it's not letters, imo. It's ideas, the spirit of the law.

The laws are not “loose” if one is following scripture. The ceremonial feast days -called annual sabbath(s) is not one of the Ten Commandments. If you do not have a good foundation and understanding of the Law of God- the Ten Commandments, the only commandments God both spoke and wrote with His own finger. Only the Ten Commandments was placed in the ark of the Covenant in the Most Holy of God’s Temple where He dwells which is also revealed in heaven Revelation 11:19, you will have a really hard time understanding a lot of the scriptures and the New Testament.

The "shadow laws" for animal sacrifices and sin offering under an earthly Sanctuary and the Levitical Priesthood with the physical sign of circumcision from the Mosaic book of the old covenant *Exodus 24:7written by Moses are not the same as Gods' eternal laws written on stone by the finger of God that gives us the knowledge of what sin is when broken under the new covenant *Romans 3:20; Romans 7:7; 1 John 3:4; James 2:10-11.

The ceremonial sabbaths all pointed to Christ and His great sacrifice- Christ became our Passover. The seventh day Sabbath points us to creation- God wants us to Remember everything He did for us at Creation which is our very existence. The seventh day Sabbath was before sin Genesis 2:1-3, the ceremonial annuals sabbath(s) came after sin. God is going to restore things back to His original plan at His Second Coming which includes His holy day of worship Isaiah 66:22-23, not what was changed by man that we are warned by in scripture. Daniel 7:25, Matthew 15:3-9

1 Corinthians 5:7 Therefore purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new lump, since you truly are unleavened. For indeed Christ, our Passover, was sacrificed for us.

So when we sacrifice lambs it is showing that Christ sacrifice was not sufficient. Christ took the place for the forgiveness of all sin at the cross when we repent and turn to Him in obedience. The Ten Commandment still has the same role as it always had, and that it points out sin so we know what not to do. God’s righteousness, His work we place our trust not our work when we believe our righteousness over God’s. We do not sanctify ourselves God does through our obedience to Him. Ezekiel 20:12

Which is why Paul says what matters is keeping the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19 and the saints in the New Testament still keep the commandments of God and the faith in Jesus Christ Revelation 14:12

It is impossible to follow the Spirit by breaking the literal commandments because the Spirit is greater than the letter. If you are keeping the Spirit of the commandments means they are in your heart and the letter will automatically be kept and will be a fruit of our faith by not worshipping other gods, or bowing to images, stealing, coveting etc. There is a spiritual aspect to everyone of the Ten that is greater than the letter, but if following by the Spirit the letter is kept. Jesus came to magnify the law of God and it starts with our thoughts- if we turn thoughts of hate to thoughts of love- thou shalt not murder would automatically be kept. This is keeping the commandments by the Spirit which also includes the Sabbath commandment which we rest in Christ on the Sabbath day by having communion with Him and not literally resting all day and being lazy.

 

[Carl Emerson]

No your position is clear. Per example The following is not From God at all and can not be proven using Scripture only.

And The fact that you speak this next quote show how much you don't understand.

Well Friend... Maybe it is you that doesn't understand...

We are invited to enter His Sabbath Rest every day (today if you hear His voice). He is in the Seventh day of creation and not subject to earth time.

Truely born again have surrendered their will to Him, He indwells them, it is an every day experience - but as Paul says - if you want to regard one day greater than any other that's your personal choice. Happy Sabbath.

 

[Carl Emerson]

Brother, your point of view contradicts Jesus' answer when asked: "what should I do to inherit eternal life?". Jesus says that there were only ten commandments in the covenant before Jesus and He says in the same passage quoted that there is one more commandment in the new covenant that was not possible before Jesus, to "follow" His example.

Once a religious leader asked Jesus this question: “Good Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked him. “Only God is truly good. But to answer your question, you know the commandments: ‘You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. Honor your father and mother.’” The man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.” When Jesus heard his answer, he said, “There is still one thing you haven’t done. Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Luke 18:18-22 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

Interesting how you and others resort to accusing those who don't agree with you of promoting sin.

His abiding presence will not allow the truely born again to promote sin. His Spirit constrains us.

 

[HIM]

Well Friend... Maybe it is you that doesn't understand...

We are invited to enter His Sabbath Rest every day (today if you hear His voice). He is in the Seventh day of creation and not subject to earth time.

Truely born again have surrendered their will to Him, He indwells them, it is an every day experience - but as Paul says - if you want to regard one day greater than any other that's your personal choice. Happy Sabbath.

Yet in saying this you have zero scriptural support.

And you are misapplying God’s words through Paul’s.No mention of the Sabbath in those text.

 

[Carl Emerson]

What premise would you like to hear scriptural support for ?

 

[guevaraj]

Interesting how you and others resort to accusing those who don't agree with you of promoting sin. His abiding presence will not allow the truely born again to promote sin. His Spirit constrains us.

Brother, "born again" refers to making use of Jesus' faster cycle of forgiveness as our High Priest, like a newborn, learns to walk by getting up again and again until he no longer falls. This daily worship of Jesus in heaven as our High Priest was cast down to earth by the bishops of Rome in the confessional. Most Christians today are not aware of Jesus' faster cycle of forgiveness than animal sacrifices to grow in obedience to the commandments faster than was possible before Jesus with slow animal sacrifices. Once again, your point of view contradicts Jesus' answer when asked: "what should I do to inherit eternal life?" Jesus says that there is one more commandment in the new covenant that was not possible before Jesus, to "follow" His example for a total of Eleven Commandments after Jesus when there were only Ten Commandments before Jesus.

Once a religious leader asked Jesus this question: “Good Teacher, what should I do to inherit eternal life?” “Why do you call me good?” Jesus asked him. “Only God is truly good. But to answer your question, you know the commandments: ‘You must not commit adultery. You must not murder. You must not steal. You must not testify falsely. Honor your father and mother.’” The man replied, “I’ve obeyed all these commandments since I was young.” When Jesus heard his answer, he said, “There is still one thing you haven’t done. Sell all your possessions and give the money to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” (Luke 18:18-22 NLT)​

United in our hope for the soon return of Jesus, Jorge

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Yet in saying this you have zero scriptural support.

And you are misapplying God’s words through Paul’s.No mention of the Sabbath in those text.

Sadly, many people think their opinions, feelings and ideas are equal to the Word of God.

By the way Happy Sabbath!