Saturday or Sunday Church?

[Servus]

Because of my schedule, I attended church Wednesday evening.

 

[Servus]

From the beginning Gentile Christians always met on Sunday. It wasn't really until the 1860s that a small sect changed it to Saturday. And then Messianic Christanity which started in the 1960s.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Which verse in Hebrew 4 says you should keep the law as it was done in the OT?

To answer your question...

Hebrews 4:9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.

Rest here is sabbatismos which literally means keeping of the Sabbath. So this verse says there remains a keeping of the Sabbath for the people of God.

σαββατισμὸς (sabbatismos)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 4520: A keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

To enter into the Spiritual rest in Christ you must also cease from your work (Exodus 20:8-11) just as God did from His (Genesis 2:1-3). The only day we were told to cease from our work is the seventh day Sabbath. Exodus 20:10 The same day God ceased from His Genesis 2:3 All other days are working days according to God. Exodus 20:9. This verse indicates to receive the rest in Christ we enter that door by keeping the Sabbath commandment. We are blessed when we hallow His Sabbath. Isaiah 58:13-14

 

[HARK!]

MOD HAT ON

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[Aussie Pete]

I think we should always obey God, especially if it is one of the commandments engraved by God’s own finger. Did God care about which tree Adam and Eve were to eat from? If God cared about a tree, He cares about His holy day. It shows that we trust Him that He knows what’s best for us. We place His will above ours.

God bless!

The Old Covenant is called old because it is old. It's been superseded. If you want to follow the Law, be my guest. First, work out what is means to keep the sabbath holy. Don't get it wrong, the penalty for failure is death. Then you will have to keep all the other commandments. There are over 600. Work out which ones apply to you and keep them diligently. Except you can't, because there is no temple and no sacrifice.

You should do as you see fit. As for me, my Bible says " Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath." Colossians 2:16.

You are right that obedience is essential to Christian living. You are wrong in stating that it is necessary to obey the OT commandments.

 

[Aussie Pete]

To answer your question...

Hebrews 4:9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.

Rest here is sabbatismos which literally means keeping of the Sabbath. So this verse says there remains a keeping of the Sabbath for the people of God.

σαββατισμὸς (sabbatismos)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 4520: A keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.

Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

To enter into the Spiritual rest in Christ you must also cease from your work (Exodus 20:8-11) just as God did from His (Genesis 2:1-3). The only day we were told to cease from our work is the seventh day Sabbath. Exodus 20:10 The same day God ceased from His Genesis 2:3 All other days are working days according to God. Exodus 20:9. This verse indicates to receive the rest in Christ we enter that door by keeping the Sabbath commandment. We are blessed when we hallow His Sabbath. Isaiah 58:13-14

I've not observed the sabbath for 50 years. I could hardly be more blessed.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The Old Covenant is called old because it is old. It's been superseded. If you want to follow the Law, be my guest. First, work out what is means to keep the sabbath holy. Don't get it wrong, the penalty for failure is death. Then you will have to keep all the other commandments. There are over 600. Work out which ones apply to you and keep them diligently. Except you can't, because there is no temple and no sacrifice.

You should do as you see fit. As for me, my Bible says " Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath." Colossians 2:16.

You are right that obedience is essential to Christian living. You are wrong in stating that it is necessary to obey the OT commandments.

A covenant means an agreement. The covenant was broken with Israel, not because there was fault in God’s covenant the fault was with the people, they broke God’s covenant.

Hebrews 8:7-9
For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant[agreement], no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found FAULT WITH THE PEOPLE

Because we have a merciful God He is giving His people another chance. Instead of deleting His laws in the New Covenant He writes them in our hearts and minds. Hebrews 8:10. As we should hopefully see with clear scriptures God is not deleting His laws that He engraved with His own finger- we see them in heaven Revelation 11:19 and the teachings of Jesus and the disciples. Matthew 5:19-30, Isaiah 42:21, Matthew 19:17-19, 1 John 5:3, John 10:15, 1 John 2:3-5, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 12:17, Revelation 22:14-15, Matthew 15:3-9, Romans 7:7 Luke 4:16 Luke 23:56, Acts 18:4 etc. etc. etc. so obviously what has been taught to many is not a teaching of the scriptures and we should be very careful who we follow and our only guide should be the Word of God. Isaiah 8:20

Yes, many quote Col 2:17 but never back up to v14 which provides the context to this passage that many use erroneously to not follow God’s Word, but the traditions of man that Jesus warned us about in His own Words and used an example of the Ten Commandments Matthew 15:3-9 so as you see the laws are not deleted but in our hearts and minds in the New Covenant.


Lets add context to the scripture you posted on Col 2:17 and back up to v14

Colossians 2:14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

You have to look at the context. There is more than one Sabbath in the scripture and if you look at Colossians 2:14 it tells you what its referring to.

Col2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The Ten Commandments are God-written (finger of God) Exodus 31:18, the law of Moses is handwritten so right there you have your proof this is not talking about any of God's Ten Commandments.

having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us

This is most certainly not referring to any of the Ten Commandments especially the holy day of the Lord thy God that God blessed and sanctified- made for holy use. Genesis 2:1-3 Once God blesses something man cannot reverse regardless how hard they try. Numbers 23:20

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and His commandments are not grievous. So there appears to be a contradiction to Col 2:14 and the Ten Commandments. Since there are no contradictions in scripture, it must be referring to another law. The law of Moses was placed outside the ark of the covenant, handwritten by Moses in a book as a witness against you, Deuteronomy 31:24 God's law is not grievous 1 John 5:3. The law of Moses was added because of sin Galatians 3:19, the law of God points out sin, Romans 7:7, Romans 3:20. The law of Moses contained curses Deuteronomy 29:20-21, Galatians 3:10 and made nothing perfect Hebrews 7:19. The law of God is perfect Psalms 19:7 and brings blessings and peace Proverbs 29:18, Psalms 119:165 the law of Moses in the book of ordinances ended with Jesus being our Perfect sacrifice for sins and sanctification that the blood of animals could never really do. Ephesians 2:15, Col 2:14-16, Hebrews 8:13 not God's law which is ETERNAL and UNCHANGING Matthew 5:17-19, Revelation 11:19

Colossians 2:14-16 is not referring to the Ten Commandments it is referring to the law of ordinances, not the COMMANDMENTS of God. Is there a sabbath(s) in the law of ordinances? Yes, and fits Colossians 2:16 as is about food and drink and holy days called sabbath(s) in scripture which has nothing to do with the commandments of God that was before sin Genesis 2:1-3 and is a memorial to God's Creation "Remember" the Sabbath day to keep holy Exodus 20:8. The sabbath(s) feast days (animal and food offerings) is what ended, Colossian 2:14 because Jesus took the place of animal and food offerings that is in the ordinances in the law of Moses, that was contrary to us and ended with Jesus as our Sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins and sanctification -See Hebrews 10 which is what Colossians 2:14-16 is referring to. Jesus became our perfect sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins. The Sabbath was instituted from the very beginning Genesis 2:1-3 and is God's perfect plan before sin entered. The Sabbath is a commandment of God, which you will see throughout the entire bible we are to keep the commandments of God which of course includes the 4th commandment. Sadly many follow the commandments of man and not God’s commandments that are holy, righteous, just and good Romans 7:12.


The Sabbath day continues to be God's chosen day of worship for eternity: Isaiah 66:23 just like God promised Exodus 31:16

Those with an ear, let them hear.Matthew 11:15, Revelation 2:29

God bless

Blessed are those who do His commandments Revelation 22:14

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I've not observed the sabbath for 50 years. I could hardly be more blessed.

Worldly blessings are not the same as heavenly ones. Isaiah 58:13-14, Ezekiel 20:12, Ezekiel 20:20

God bless and I pray we all seek truth to His Word and that is what we are called to worship God in Truth and Spirit. John 4:23-24

 

[Aussie Pete]

Worldly blessings are not the same as heavenly ones. Isaiah 58:13-14, Ezekiel 20:12, Ezekiel 20:20

God bless and I pray we all seek truth to His Word and that is what we are called to worship God in Truth and Spirit. John 4:23-24

I agree. But I will repeat, I could hardly be more blessed, and to be clear, both spiritually and materially.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I agree. But I will repeat, I could hardly be more blessed, and to be clear, both spiritually and materially.

The story of Jonah comes to mind.

God wrote His will for us and in my opinion a commandment of God is not a suggestion.

We will have to agree to disagree. I wish you nothing but the best is seeking His Word.

God bless!

 

[HIM]

I've not observed the sabbath for 50 years. I could hardly be more blessed.

The rain falls on the good and bad.

 

[Aussie Pete]

The rain falls on the good and bad.

You contradict yourself. Either sabbath keepers are more blessed than those who do not or they are not.

The truth is that the sabbath was made for man, not God or the self righteous religious types. Everyone should have a day of rest. That is necessary for health and well being. It does not matter which day. In the early days of the church, people met every day. I like that idea but it's not always possible.

The rest that Christians need to enter is not physical. It is rest from the attempt to please God by self effort. good works and slavishly following commandments. It comes by taking the yoke of Jesus on us, denying ourselves and carrying the cross. When we walk in the Spirit, God's law is no longer necessary. We will be pleasing God without trying. If we are not walking in the Spirit, we are relying on self righteousness. God calls that "filthy rags". God has not led me to worship on the OT sabbath.

 

[HIM]

You contradict yourself. Either sabbath keepers are more blessed than those who do not or they are not.[

The truth is that the sabbath was made for man, not God or the self righteous religious types. Everyone should have a day of rest. That is necessary for health and well being. It does not matter which day. In the early days of the church, people met every day. I like that idea but it's not always possible.

The rest that Christians need to enter is not physical. It is rest from the attempt to please God by self effort. good works and slavishly following commandments. It comes by taking the yoke of Jesus on us, denying ourselves and carrying the cross. When we walk in the Spirit, God's law is no longer necessary. We will be pleasing God without trying. If we are not walking in the Spirit, we are relying on self righteousness. God calls that "filthy rags". God has not led me to worship on the OT sabbath.

You misunderstand a lot.


Those are Your words which can not be supported through the Word.

Take care.

 

[HIM]

Because of my schedule, I attended church Wednesday evening.

The Sabbath is not about attending church; though most should. The Sabbath is a day of rest that we are to keep holy. Every other day is a normal day that we are to keep holy. But that Seventh Day Sabbath is the Sabbath of our Lord our God. In it we are not to do any work that is not ministerial, we are to rest.

 

[HIM]

You can say Sabbath was made for man not man for the Sabbath and yet man still is blinded to what God said. Yet man still makes it about man.

Its really simple. If you believe you must obey keep the Sabbath then you best be doing it. This goes with everything else He said. Its not what others do. Yeah its between you and Him. No prophets today to tell us what to do we all have GOD sweet sweet holy Spirit in us (Luke 11:13).

See if you tell me Jesus is lord there is no other way and I better believe in Him to have ever lasting life. To that I better listen. Do you see? He is really capable of taking care of His kids

So the question.. YES!

It is not up to us. We are not God. The Life in and of Him is not subjective to our whim and fancy. If that which is within is telling us something different from what Christ taught then it is not of Him.

A little leaven leavens the whole and we will know not what we follow.

 

[HIM]

From the beginning Gentile Christians always met on Sunday. It wasn't really until the 1860s that a small sect changed it to Saturday. And then Messianic Christanity which started in the 1960s.

The early Church kept the Sabbath. Then as time progressed they kept the Sabbath and Sunday in honor of the resurrection. Then due to prejudice they stop keeping the Sabbath. Then eventually it became against the law to keep it. But you knew this. Why you didn't post it is beyond me.

But Even if you were entirely correct. The history of the Church since the fall screams the majority has always been wrong in respect following God's will through His spirit.

 

[HIM]

Which verse in Hebrew 4 says you should keep the law as it was done in the OT?

None as you see it. What is the New Covenant? And when was the New covenant established? When was it first spoken and the reality of it in our lives available Joined2krist?

To answer your question...

Hebrews 4:9 There remains therefore a rest for the people of God.

Rest here is sabbatismos which literally means keeping of the Sabbath. So this verse says there remains a keeping of the Sabbath for the people of God.

σαββατισμὸς (sabbatismos)
Noun - Nominative Masculine Singular
Strong's 4520: A keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.
Hebrews 4:10 For he who has entered His rest has himself also ceased from his works as God did from His.

To enter into the Spiritual rest in Christ you must also cease from your work (Exodus 20:8-11) just as God did from His (Genesis 2:1-3). The only day we were told to cease from our work is the seventh day Sabbath. Exodus 20:10 The same day God ceased from His Genesis 2:3 All other days are working days according to God. Exodus 20:9. This verse indicates to receive the rest in Christ we enter that door by keeping the Sabbath commandment. We are blessed when we hallow His Sabbath. Isaiah 58:13-14

Right "AS GOD DID FROM HIS" Two things are mentioned as you brought out my friend. A rest in which we entered which is in Christ Jesus and a ceasing from our works as God did. God is Spirit. When He rested the Seventh Day He did not enter a Spiritual rest like we do in Christ. He is our Spiritual Rest in Christ. He ceased working and the Word says He was refreshed. (Ex 31:17) So because we have entered into the spiritual rest which is Christ Jesus we also cease from work like God did on the Seventh Day.

 

[Soyeong]

The Old Covenant is called old because it is old. It's been superseded. If you want to follow the Law, be my guest. First, work out what is means to keep the sabbath holy. Don't get it wrong, the penalty for failure is death.

If there was someone who was instructed by God how to know Him by walking in His way through expressing His nature and refraining from sin, but God had not yet made any covenants with them, then would God's sovereignty mean that this person would still be obligated to represent the nature of God by following those instructions?

Then you will have to keep all the other commandments. There are over 600. Work out which ones apply to you and keep them diligently. Except you can't, because there is no temple and no sacrifice.

The Israelites were given a number of laws that had the condition "when you enter the land..." while they were still wandering the wilderness for 40 years, so there is nothing wrong with having laws that can't currently be followed. When the Israelites were exiled in Babylon the condition for their return to the land was to first return to obedience to God's law, which required them to have access to the temple that had just been destroyed, so when there are laws that can't be obeyed, we should nevertheless have the gift of getting to obey as much as we can.

You should do as you see fit. As for me, my Bible says " Therefore let no one judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a feast, a New Moon, or a Sabbath." Colossians 2:16.

If we look at Colossians 2:16 by itself, then it is ambiguous in regard to two possible situations:

1.) The Colossians were not keeping God's feasts, they were being judged by Jews because they were not keeping them, and Paul was encouraging not to let any man judge them for not keeping them.

2.) The Colossians were keeping God's feasts, they were being judged by pagans because they were keeping them, and Paul was encouraging them not to let anyone judge them for keeping them.

If we look at the context of what Paul described of the views of the people who were judging them, then it becomes clear that the 2nd situation is the case in that they were being judged by pagans, such as saying in Colossians 2:20-23 that they were promoting human precepts and traditions, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity of the body. We must obey God rather than man, so we should be careful not to mistake what was only said against obeying the teaching of men as being against obeying the commands of God, especially when the point that Paul was making was that we should let anyone prevent us from obeying the commands of God.

You are right that obedience is essential to Christian living. You are wrong in stating that it is necessary to obey the OT commandments.

While we are under the New Covenant and not the Mosaic Covenant, we are nevertheless still under the same God with the same nature and therefore the same instructions for how to represent His nature by walking in His way. For example, the way to represent God's righteousness is straightforwardly based on God's righteousness, not on a particular covenant, and God's righteousness is eternal, so any instructions that God has ever given for how to do what is righteous are eternally valid. For example, it was a sin against God's righteousness to commit adultery in Genesis 39:9 long before the Mosaic Covenant was made, during it, it remains sinful after it has become obsolete, and if the way to act in accordance or against God's righteousness were to ever change, then His righteousness would not be eternal, so God's instructions to refrain from adultery are eternally valid regardless of which covenant someone is under, if any. Pointing out that something was commanded in the OT is irrelevant to someone who has the goal of walking in God's way by representing His nature as accurately as they can.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

You contradict yourself. Either sabbath keepers are more blessed than those who do not or they are not.

You misunderstand the blessing and it would be hard to understand if one does not keep the Sabbath. The Sabbath blessing is conditional on not turning thy foot away from the Sabbath by doing thy own pleasures on the Lord’s holy day. Isaiah 58:13-14. The invitation is open to everyone, but like many of the promises, they are conditional.

The truth is that the sabbath was made for man, not God or the self righteous

The truth is the Sabbath is God’s holy day period. Spoken by God’s own mouth- engraved by God’s own finger so your argument here appears to be with our Most High. Exodus 20:10, Isaiah 58:13, Mark 2:28

Your statement is actually contradictory. We do not make ourselves righteous, only God can do that. When we obey God this is showing that we place our trust in God that He knows what’s best for us. The self-righteous are those who place their trust in themselves thinking they can make themselves self-righteous by doing what they think is right instead of obeying God.

Paul puts it this way:

Romans 6:16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?

There is no commandment of God to keep holy any other day except for the seventh day Sabbath. Spoken by our Lord and Savior and engraved with His own finger. Sunday worship came in the 3rd century and it was a comprise of Christianity. The Romans were persecuting the Christians in horrible ways and Caesar took some of the pagan traditions -sun worship which turned into Sunday worship and mingled with some of the Christian beliefs. This all lines up with the history of the seven churches in Revelation. The Sabbath was predicted it would be changed in scripture Daniel 7:25 not by God, but by man. Jesus in His own Words reminds us not to follow mans traditions over the commandments of God. Matthew 15:3-9. These warnings in scripture are not something to take lightly. Jesus said we worship in vain when we keep traditions over the commandments of God and we are called to worship Him in Truth and Spirit. John 4:23-24

Everyone should have a day of rest. That is necessary for health and well being. It does not matter which day. In the early days of the church, people met every day. I like that idea but it's not always possible.

These are your words not God’s. We should always obey the Words of God over the opinion, feelings, ideas of man. God does not make mistakes nor does He change.

Exodus 20:8 “Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days you shall labor and do all your work, 10 but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your male servant, nor your female servant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. 11 For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.

The rest that Christians need to enter is not physical. It is rest from the attempt to please God by self effort. good works and slavishly following commandments. It comes by taking the yoke of Jesus on us, denying ourselves and carrying the cross. When we walk in the Spirit, God's law is no longer necessary. We will be pleasing God without trying. If we are not walking in the Spirit, we are relying on self righteousness. God calls that "filthy rags". God has not led me to worship on the OT sabbath.

How can you call this denying yourself by doing what you want instead of what God commanded for His children? When we think we know better than what God commands us I’m not sure how one would think its going to end well, when we have warning after warning in scripture of those who do not obey, nor repent and turn from their sin. Hebrews 10:26-30 Sin is defined as breaking God’s law 1 John 3:4 Romans 7:7 and breaking one commandment quoting directly from the Ten is like breaking them all James 2:10-12. We do not keep the commandments to be saved, we keep them because we love God and it shows we have a changed heart. I don’t see any scripture that says if we love God do not keep His commandments so you might want to consider prayerfully reconsidering your position as God is giving His children a second chance. He knows us through our obedience to Him because it shows you place your trust in God that He knows what’s best and not place trust in our own ways. 1 John 2:3-5, Matthew 7:21-23, Exodus 20:6, 1 John 3:5, John 14:15, Revelation 14:12, Revelation 22:14-15

 

[Joined2krist]

@HIM, God hates your Sabbaths due to sin, all self effort is sinful(Isaiah 1:2-20). I am not interested in discussing further, don't invite me back. God bless