Saturday or Sunday Church?

[Bob S]

The renewal of God’s covenant promise of His laws in our hearts and minds is still with Israel. Hebrews 8:10. You don’t want to write yourself out of God’s covenant promise.

There is no "renewal" of the old covenant mentioned in New Testament scripture. If it were then why are you not observing all the laws that would pertain to you.

WHen one is in Christ you are grafted into God’s Israel which is just a name to identify God’s people.

I would like to know what benefit you think you have when you write being grafted into Israel. Now if you wrote being grafted into Jesus or even Abraham I would agree.

It’s like when your married, your spouses family becomes your family. God is the head of His family and if you are in Christ you become part of the covenant promise which comes with the law of God. Galatians 3:26-28.

Yes, we become of Jesus new covenant promise not the one given only to Israel.

The bondage of yoke are those who don’t love God and keep His commandments.

Do you keep the commandments? Do you keep the Sabbath perfectly? You keep telling us to do something and cannot do yourself.

Love to God is obeying His law. Exodus 20:6, 1 John 5:3, John 14:15, John 15:10 Obiedence to God brings Psalm 119:98, wisdom Psalm 110:10, Pslam 119:98, the law of God is pure Pslam 19:8, is perfect Psalm 19:7, holy Romans 7:12 and unchanging Matthew 5:18-30, James 2:10-12

Love, according to Jesus, doing what He asks us to do, love others as He loves us. Jesus never told us love is keeping the old covenant for the Israelites only Sabbath

You are either a bondage to sin that leads to death or obiedence to God that leads to His righteousness Romans 6:16 the choice is ours to make.

I know where I stand, how about you? I ask once again; do you really keep the Sabbath according to Is 58:13??? I thank the Lord I now know that there is no requirement for anyone to keep any day. I am proud to be a former Adventist.

 

[BobRyan]

The renewal of God’s covenant promise of His laws in our hearts and minds is still with Israel. Hebrews 8:10. You don’t want to write yourself out of God’s covenant promise.

WHen one is in Christ you are grafted into God’s Israel which is just a name to identify God’s people. It’s like when your married, your spouses family becomes your family. God is the head of His family and if you are in Christ you become part of the covenant promise which comes with the law of God. Galatians 3:26-28.

The bondage of yoke are those who don’t love God and keep His commandments. Love to God is obeying His law. Exodus 20:6, 1 John 5:3, John 14:15, John 15:10 Obiedence to God brings Psalm 119:98, wisdom Psalm 110:10, Pslam 119:98, the law of God is pure Pslam 19:8, is perfect Psalm 19:7, holy Romans 7:12 and unchanging Matthew 5:18-30, James 2:10-12

You are either a bondage to sin that leads to death or obiedence to God that leads to His righteousness Romans 6:16 the choice is ours to make.

Take care.

amen

 

[BobRyan]

I would like to know what benefit you think you have when you write being grafted into Israel.

Consider reading Romans 2, 9 and 11 to see Paul provide that answer.

Or just read Hebrews 8 where he tells us that the NEW COVENANT is with Israel even in the NT.

 

[Danthemailman]

You obey the Law. When, and absolutely it will be when, you break it, you are condemned. What should be done to you? Stoning is the appropriate punishment in most cases. The Law came through Moses. Grace and Truth through Jesus Christ. Go ahead, live by the law and see where it gets you. I will live by grace, by the Life of Christ within me, the Holy Spirit. He leads me and guides me. And He has not led me to Saturday worship. Dead religion is no substitute for a living relationship with God and His Son. I know enough about SDA to know that I refuse to come under the yoke of bondage that they seek to impose on ignorant believers.

Speaking of bondage. Seventh-day Adventists teach that the near the end of time the "mark of the best" of Revelation 14 will be placed upon those who worship on Sunday instead of Saturday.

Mark of the Beast

 

[SabbathBlessings]

There is no "renewal" of the old covenant mentioned in New Testament scripture. If it were then why are you not observing all the laws that would pertain to you.


I would like to know what benefit you think you have when you write being grafted into Israel. Now if you wrote being grafted into Jesus or even Abraham I would agree.


Yes, we become of Jesus new covenant promise not the one given only to Israel.


Do you keep the commandments? Do you keep the Sabbath perfectly? You keep telling us to do something and cannot do yourself.



Love, according to Jesus, doing what He asks us to do, love others as He loves us. Jesus never told us love is keeping the old covenant for the Israelites only Sabbath


I know where I stand, how about you? I ask once again; do you really keep the Sabbath according to Is 58:13??? I thank the Lord I now know that there is no requirement for anyone to keep any day. I am proud to be a former Adventist.

I am sorry that you have this view point of God. That God would command us to do something that is impossible to do and then judge us by it. We have a God of love and what we can’t do on our own can be done through the power of Jesus Christ. "I can do all things through Christ who strengthens me" (Philippians 4:13).

We can gain victory over sin through Jesus Christ.

I would consider not making judgements on what people do or don’t so especially when you don’t know them. Only God is all knowing and God will be our righteous Judge and we all will have to stand before Him one day soon. 2 Corinthians 5:10

I pray we all will overcome our sin through Jesus.

Blessed are those who do His commandments Revelation 22:14

 

[BobRyan]

There is no "renewal" of the old covenant mentioned in New Testament scripture.

The NEW covenant is in the NEW Testament - read Heb 8.

It quotes the NEW covenant from the OLD Testament Jer 31:31-34 where God writes His LAW known to Jeremiah and his readers - on the heart and mind under that one and only Gospel NEW Covenant.

 

[Soyeong]

So your saying that according to Isaiah 8:20 all Christians who don’t keep the Saturday Sabbath don’t have Christ in them? One could also reply with Galatians 5:1-6

“It was for freedom that Christ set us free; therefore keep standing firm and do not be subject again to a yoke of slavery. Behold I, Paul, say to you that if you receive circumcision, Christ will be of no benefit to you. And I testify again to every man who receives circumcision, that he is under obligation to keep the whole Law. You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit, by faith, are waiting for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision means anything, but faith working through love.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭5:1-6‬ ‭NASB1995‬‬

In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which as a light to the nations, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is an integral part of the Gospel message, which he prophesied would be proclaimed to all nations (Matthew 24:12-14). Furthermore, Christ set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God's law, and as his followers we are told to follow His example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 3:4). So Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers how to obey God's law by word and by example, and it would be absurd to interpret Galatians 5:1-6 as if Paul's problem in Galatians was with those who were teaching Gentiles how to follow what Christ taught, as if obedience to God was somehow a negative thing.

 

[Soyeong]

Speaking of bondage.

Mark of the Beast

 

[Landon Caeli]

Christ rose on Easter Sunday and Matthew, Mark, Luke and John all four books you can find clearly teach that Christ rose the first day of the week, now the Gregorian calendar and the romish calendar have never had a mistake and always Sunday is the first day of the week but above that point God has preserved the Jews and they have never lost track of the seventh day Sabbath or what they call in Hebrew "Rosh Chodesh" which is the head of the month/the first day of each month which is called the new moon, traditionalism is why people attend Church on Sunday, so the true biblical day to attend church is Saturday.

God spoke six days, it was created and on the seventh day God say's remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy, it's God's Word.

Growing up, I went to church every day except Saturday, because at Catholic school, we began our day in church, and then formed double lines and quietly headed to class with our backpacks.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

There is no "renewal" of the old covenant mentioned in New Testament scripture. If it were then why are you not observing all the laws that would pertain to you.


I would like to know what benefit you think you have when you write being grafted into Israel. Now if you wrote being grafted into Jesus or even Abraham I would agree.


Yes, we become of Jesus new covenant promise not the one given only to Israel.


Do you keep the commandments? Do you keep the Sabbath perfectly? You keep telling us to do something and cannot do yourself.



Love, according to Jesus, doing what He asks us to do, love others as He loves us. Jesus never told us love is keeping the old covenant for the Israelites only Sabbath


I know where I stand, how about you? I ask once again; do you really keep the Sabbath according to Is 58:13??? I thank the Lord I now know that there is no requirement for anyone to keep any day. I am proud to be a former Adventist.

I also want to add it is a not a requirement to be saved to be an Adventist. There is no scripture however that says we can practice sin or willfully sin without repenting and turning back to God and be saved. Hebrews 10:26-30, Matthew 7:21-23, Revelation 22:14-15 Sin is defined as breaking God’s law and the law is what points out sin so we know what not to do and Paul points us directly to the Ten Commandments when pointing out sin Romans 7:7. The Sabbath is a commandment of God regardless if one chooses to accept it or not. The Sabbath commandment was personally engraved with God’s finger and personally spoken by God’s own voice. A commandment of God is not a suggestion by God, it is how He wants His children to serve and worship Him because He is our Creator and he knows what’s best for us. No one really knows what tomorrow brings or when our probation will close. Today while we can still read His written Word for us and today while you can still hear His voice- we should not harden our heart to God’s Truth, because if we die tomorrow without repenting and turning to God our next conscious thought will be standing before Jesus on judgement day and the question asked in the book of Revelation is:

For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand? Revelation 6:17

There are plenty of warnings in scripture about being disobedient to God. We have a God of love who longs for His children to love him and keep His commandments. Exodus 20:6, 1 John 5:3, John 14:15

 

[Aussie Pete]

Sure, everyone should have a day of rest - God's gift. However, your organisation is unbiblical in that it mandates a particular day. This contradicts Colossians 2:16, also applicable to SDA food laws. If you want to observe such rules and regulations, fine. I prefer the law of the Spirit of Life.

When I was saved, I was in the military, under contract and unable to leave. I had no choice but to work whenever and wherever it was required. The Vietnamese do not respect the Sabbath. It is not for nothing that the church, both Catholic and Protestant, has observed Sunday worship for 2,000 years. It is both biblical and historical.

 

[BNR32FAN]

Matthew 15:3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’-(taken directly from the Ten Commandments Exodus 20) and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

This is a bad example because they were keeping the commandment of tithing. This is a situation we may encounter where we may have to break one commandment to keep another and when this situation comes about we have to decide which commandment God would rather us break. The commandment of tithing was not a man made tradition it was a commandment directly from God to the Israelites. The reason Jesus rebuked them is because they chose to obey the letter of the law instead of showing compassion. Either way they were going to have to break one of God’s commandments and they chose to be incompassionate in their obedience rather than compassionate.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

This is a bad example because they were keeping the commandment of tithing. This is a situation we may encounter where we may have to break one commandment to keep another and when this situation comes about we have to decide which commandment God would rather us break. The commandment of tithing was not a man made tradition it was a commandment directly from God to the Israelites. The reason Jesus rebuked them is because they chose to obey the letter of the law instead of showing compassion. Either way they were going to have to break one of God’s commandments and they chose to be incompassionate in their obedience rather than compassionate.

This is not about tithing, its about hand washing.

Matthew 15:1 Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, 2 “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”

They placed their tradition over the commandments of God, making the commandment of God of no effect. Jesus makes it clear not to do that and quoted directly from the Ten Commandments.

 

[Ceallaigh]

Growing up, I went to church every day except Saturday, because at Catholic school, we began our day in church, and then formed double lines and quietly headed to class with our backpacks.

That's something I've pointed out. Catholics have church seven days a week.

 

[BNR32FAN]

If Monday is the first day of the week, then Jesus rose on Monday and not Sunday. This is why we don’t go by man-made teachings becuase it leads up down the wrong path.


God is in charge of His Sabbath, and He is not going to give us a commandment that we do not know how to keep. We have a God of love, not a God of confusion.

I never said Monday was the first day of the week, I said the term “day of the week” is not in the Sabbath commandment. God never said that we must rest on the 7th “day of the week”.

The New Testament changed and redefined much of the Old Testament laws. Circumcision was abolished, the dietary laws were removed, adultery was no longer punishable by death, Gentiles were allowed to eat meat offered to idols, and Paul specifically said they we don’t have to worship on Sabbath days in Colossians 2:16 and reaffirmed it in Romans 14. I know you disagree but this is scriptural evidence to support my beliefs. These are several examples where the Laws were redefined in the New Testament.

 

[BNR32FAN]

This is not about tithing, its about hand washing.

Matthew 15:1 Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, 2 “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”

They placed their tradition over the commandments of God, making the commandment of God of no effect. Jesus makes it clear not to do that and quoted directly from the Ten Commandments.

Why do you stop reading at verse 3? Did Jesus stop speaking on verse 3? What does He say after verse 3?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Why do you stop reading at verse 3? Did Jesus stop speaking on verse 3? What does He say after verse 3?

Let’s post the passage…. It’s not referring to tithing. It’s about men placing traditions over the commandments of God. They were so focused on handwashing before eating which is not a commandment of God instead of obeying God's commandments, Jesus had some choice words for them in doing that.

Matthew 15:1 Then the scribes and Pharisees who were from Jerusalem came to Jesus, saying, 2 “Why do Your disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat bread.”

3 He answered and said to them, “Why do you also transgress the commandment of God because of your tradition? 4 For God commanded, saying, ‘Honor your father and your mother’; (directly from Exodus 20) and, ‘He who curses father or mother, let him be put to death.’ 5 But you say, ‘Whoever says to his father or mother, “Whatever profit you might have received from me is a gift to God”— 6 then he need not honor his father or mother.’ Thus you have made the commandment of God of no effect by your tradition. 7 Hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy about you, saying:

8 ‘These people draw near to Me with their mouth,
And honor Me with their lips,
But their heart is far from Me.
9 And in vain they worship Me,
Teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’ ”

We are called to worship Him in Truth and Spirit John 4:23-24. There is no commandment of God for Sunday-keeping, but there is for Sabbath-keeping written by God, spoken by God and this commandment God said "Remember"

 

[Ceallaigh]

It seems all of this stuff about keeping the law and keeping the commandments, is really mostly about joining a particular type of Protestant church that holds services on Saturday.

 

[Bob S]

I also want to add it is a not a requirement to be saved to be an Adventist. There is no scripture however that says we can practice sin or willfully sin without repenting and turning back to God and be saved.

Hi SB, I know you mean well. I, too, once believed as you now do. The church convinced me that it is the remnant, the only true church. It seemed like the church had everything Biblically figured out. Rome had to be the culprit and Sunday laws would rule. The SDA church would be persecuted, we would have to run to safety in the mountains or uninhabitable places or if we stayed in our homes we would either have to renounce our faith or be killed. That was taught to my wife and me over sixty years ago. Since then, we, in United States, have had hundreds of Catholic leaders and even one Catholic President. It has been Russia, the Middle East, China and North Korea that have been our threat. We hear little about Rome. Sunday has become the day people take the time to do whatever pleases them. Because of books like The Great Controversy SDAs live in fright all because they have been taught that they have to keep the Sabbath or be lost. Keeping Sabbath is the supposedly required test if we want to live eternally. We were taught this because Ellen White SAW all of this in her supposedly prophetic encounters with her angel. The real fact is that what she supposedly SAW is diametrically opposed to what the scripture teaches. We have given you so many Biblical truths that do not support her visions yet the church would rather accept her writings.

I would never ever again tell a person they are sinning because they don't observe the Sabbath given only to one nation, Israel. It is not a requirement, but if indeed you have been led to feel it to be necessary then keep it. God didn't require gentile nations to observe the Sabbath to be saved yet you take it upon yourself to tell us we are sinning or we are LAWLESS because we don't. The fact is that the Law given to Israel at Sinai was never meant to be salvational, Read Ex19:5-6. Abraham was not saved by keeping laws, he was saved by God's Grace. We, too, are not saved by keeping laws, we are saved by believing in Jesus, J3:16. To come on the forum and write otherwise, well I certainly believe it is wrong. Jesus never told anyone they would be lost if they didn't keep days nor did He instruct any of the Bible writers to write such a thing but He did instruct Paul to write 2Cor3:6-11 KJV that informs us that the ten commandment laws were done away and replaced with the Holy Spirit. Where is it we find the Sabbath law SB? Yes, in the done away ten commandments. Knowing this is why Paul was able to write in Col2 that you are not to judge others in keeping the feast Sabbaths or the weekly Sabbath, they are shadows.

Hebrews 10:26-30, Matthew 7:21-23, Revelation 22:14-15 Sin is defined as breaking God’s law and the law is what points out sin so we know what not to do and Paul points us directly to the Ten Commandments when pointing out sin Romans 7:7.

Yes, before the gift of the Holy Spirit it was the Law that convicted the Israelites of coveting and some other laws. Now, as Paul so plainly wrote in 2Cor3:6-11 Jesus' gift to us convicts us of coveting.

The Sabbath is a commandment of God regardless if one chooses to accept it or not.

It was a commandment. Read 2Cor3:6-11

The Sabbath commandment was personally engraved with God’s finger and personally spoken by God’s own voice.

It is interesting that you now add "God's own voice". That does not mean that the Sabbath law was to be eternal. 2Cor3:6-11 tells us it was a temporary law. Remember Jesus words in Matt 5? 17 “Do not think that I came to destroy the Law or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy but to fulfill. Jesus came to fulfill the Law. According to you He must have failed in His mission because you continue to observe a couple parts of it.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I never said Monday was the first day of the week, I said the term “day of the week” is not in the Sabbath commandment. God never said that we must rest on the 7th “day of the week”.

The New Testament changed and redefined much of the Old Testament laws. Circumcision was abolished, the dietary laws were removed, adultery was no longer punishable by death, Gentiles were allowed to eat meat offered to idols, and Paul specifically said they we don’t have to worship on Sabbath days in Colossians 2:16 and reaffirmed it in Romans 14. I know you disagree but this is scriptural evidence to support my beliefs. These are several examples where the Laws were redefined in the New Testament.

Paul does not have the authority to change the commandments of God engraved by God's own finger, kept in the ark of the covenant in the Most Holy of God's Temple, which is also revealed in heaven. Revelation 11:19 Physical circumcision was changed and there is 3 chapters in regards to this change and circumcision is not a commandment of God. Paul says what matters is KEEPING the commandments of God 1 Cor 7:19 so it appears you are not following the teachings of Paul who never said the 4th commandment has been abolished and there is a new day of worship, the first day. You will not find this in scripture. Paul and the disciples kept the Sabbath like Jesus commission to observe everything He has commanded decades after Jesus ascended back to heaven. Acts of the Apostles 13:42 Acts of the Apostles 13:44 Acts of the Apostles 15:21 Acts of the Apostles 16:3, Acts of the Apostles 17:2, Acts of the Apostles 18:4

In order to understand Col 2:16 you need to back up to Col 2:14 and for some reason, no one does that because they want to hold on to their tradition instead of allowing the Word of God to speak for Itself.

You have to look at the context. There is more than one Sabbath in the scripture and if you look at Colossians 2:14 it tells you want it is referring to.

Col2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

The Ten Commandments is God-written (finger of God), the law of Moses is handwritten so right there you have your proof this is not talking about any of God's Ten Commandments.

having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us

This is most certainly not referring to any of the Ten Commandments especially the Sabbath commandment that is holy, sanctified and blessed. What God blesses; man cannot reverse regardless how hard they try. Numbers 23:20

1 John 5:3 For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and His commandments are not grievous. So there appears to be a contradiction to Col 2:14 and the Ten Commandments. Since there are no contradictions in scripture, it must be referring to another law. The law of Moses was placed outside the ark of the covenant, handwritten by Moses in a book as a witness against you, Deuteronomy 31:24 God's law is not grievous 1 John 5:3. The law of Moses was added because of sin Galatians 3:19, the law of God points out sin, Romans 7:7, Romans 3:20. The law of Moses contained curses Deuteronomy 29:20-21, Galatians 3:10 and made nothing perfect Hebrews 7:19. The law of God is perfect Psalms 19:7 and brings blessings and peace Proverbs 29:18, Psalms 119:165 the law of Moses in the book of ordinances ended with Jesus being our Perfect sacrifice. Ephesians 2:15, Col 2:14-16, Hebrews 8:13 not God's law which is ETERNAL and UNCHANGING Matthew 5:17-19, Revelation 11:19

Colossians 2:14-16 is not referring to the Ten Commandments it is referring to the law of ordinances, not the COMMANDMENTS of God. Is there a sabbath(s) in the law of ordinances? Yes, and fits Colossians 2:16 and is about food and drink and holy days called sabbath(s) in scripture which has nothing to do with the commandments of God that was before sin Genesis 2:1-3 and is a memorial to God's Creation "Remember" the Sabbath day to keep holy Exodus 20:8. The sabbath(s) feast days (animal and food offerings) is what ended, that is in the ordinances in the law of Moses, that was contrary to us and ended with Jesus as our Sacrifice for the forgiveness of sins and sanctification -See Hebrews 10 which is what Colossians 2:14-16 is referring to.

Another consideration why Colossians 2:14-16 is not referring the seventh day Sabbath

Colossians 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ. The Sabbath is not a shadow of anything, it points back to Creation "Remember" the Sabbath day to keep Holy and does not point to Christ on the cross, it points us right back to Creation 2:1-3 so we can remember what God has done for us every Sabbath. It is a memorial to His creation. The Sabbath was before sin and was God's perfect plan before sin entered.

The Sabbath day continues to be God's chosen day of worship for eternity: Isaiah 66:23 just like God promised Exodus 31:16