WHY SALVATION CAN BE LOST

[Brightfame52]

No dear friend, it is all about understanding the difference between what genuine faith is and what genuine saving faith is not. If you believe that you can believe Gods' Word and not obey what Gods' Word says James calls this the dead faith of devils in James 2:10-11. It is a false teaching dear friend and not biblical as already shown from the scriptures already.

You still trusting in works for Salvation !

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes dear friend, I do not believe in the false teachings of once saved always saved (OSAS) showing why from the scriptures provided in post # 1464 linked that you refuse to discuss with me.

No dear friend. I believe in God's security based on faith through believing and following what Gods' Word says. As shown earlier this is genuine faith and anything else is the dead faith of devils according to James 2:16-26

Take Care.

If you dont believe in once saved always saved, you believe in Salvation by works, by what man does.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You still trusting in works for Salvation !

No not at all dear friend. I trust in God's Word that has been shared with you and do not believe your teachings that we can believe God's Word and not follow what God's Word says. According to James this teaching is the dead faith of devils and not genuine saving faith *see James 2:16-26

 

[LoveGodsWord]

If you dont believe in once saved always saved,

Yes dear friend, I do not believe in the false teachings of once saved always saved (OSAS) showing why from the scriptures provided in post # 1464 linked that you refuse to discuss with me.

you believe in Salvation by works, by what man does.

No dear friend that is not true are all. I believe what Gods' Word says. Let me tell you what I believe from the scriptures and why your teachings are not biblical if it might be helpful for you. According to the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of condemnation and death *Romans 3:9-23; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith in Gods' Word that we are saved through Gods forgiveness of our sins being justified by the blood of Christ and his death and sacrifice for our sins given as a free gift to all those who have faith.

According to the scriptures, obedience to what Gods Word says is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 is obedience to the faith *Romans 1:5 as we believe and follow what his word says *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and does not lead to obeying Gods' Word then our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27.

Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by genuine faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14 and according to James there is no such thing as faith that does not have the fruit of obedience to Gods' Word. Gods Word does not teach lawlessness (without law) *1 John 2:3-4. Therefore according to the scriptures, we demonstrate our faith by believing and obeying what Gods' Word says from the heart. Anything else is the dead faith of devils and is not saving faith which is why Jesus says "by their fruit you shall know them" *Matthew 7:12-23.

Genuine faith therefore is demonstrated as believing and obeying what Gods' Word says from a new heart that loves (Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:2-4) which is God's new covenant promise in all those who have been born again to believe and follow what Gods' Word says (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; see also Romans 6:1-23 and 1 John 3:4-9; Revelation 14:12).

Now what is it shared with you from the scriptures that you disagree with and why? May you receive God's correction through His Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it disappear. According to Jesus it is the Words of God we accept or reject that become our judge come judgement day in John 12:47-48.

Take Care now

 

[Brightfame52]

No not at all dear friend. I trust in God's Word that has been shared with you and do not believe your teachings that we can believe God's Word and not follow what God's Word says. According to James this teaching is the dead faith of devils and not genuine saving faith *see James 2:16-26

You dont believe in the eternal security of the believer, you have to believe in salvation by works.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes dear friend, I do not believe in the false teachings of once saved always saved (OSAS) showing why from the scriptures provided in post # 1464 linked that you refuse to discuss with me.

No dear friend that is not true are all. I believe what Gods' Word says. Let me tell you what I believe from the scriptures and why your teachings are not biblical if it might be helpful for you. According to the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of condemnation and death *Romans 3:9-23; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith in Gods' Word that we are saved through Gods forgiveness of our sins being justified by the blood of Christ and his death and sacrifice for our sins given as a free gift to all those who have faith.

According to the scriptures, obedience to what Gods Word says is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 is obedience to the faith *Romans 1:5 as we believe and follow what his word says *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and does not lead to obeying Gods' Word then our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27.

Therefore we do not abolish God's law through faith like some people teach but God's law is established in the heart by genuine faith that works by love *Romans 3:31; 1 John 5:3-4; Romans 13:8-10. According to the scriptures, sin (breaking God' commandments and not believing and following God's Word) is the difference between the children of God and the children of the devil *1 John 3:6-10; Revelation 12:17; Revelation 14:12; Revelation 22:14 and according to James there is no such thing as faith that does not have the fruit of obedience to Gods' Word. Gods Word does not teach lawlessness (without law) *1 John 2:3-4. Therefore according to the scriptures, we demonstrate our faith by believing and obeying what Gods' Word says from the heart. Anything else is the dead faith of devils and is not saving faith which is why Jesus says "by their fruit you shall know them" *Matthew 7:12-23.

Genuine faith therefore is demonstrated as believing and obeying what Gods' Word says from a new heart that loves (Romans 13:8-10; James 2:8-12; 1 John 5:2-4) which is God's new covenant promise in all those who have been born again to believe and follow what Gods' Word says (Hebrews 8:10-12 from Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Ezekiel 36:24-27; see also Romans 6:1-23 and 1 John 3:4-9; Revelation 14:12).

Now what is it shared with you from the scriptures that you disagree with and why? May you receive God's correction through His Word and be blessed. Ignoring it does not make it disappear. According to Jesus it is the Words of God we accept or reject that become our judge come judgement day in John 12:47-48.

Take Care now

Since you call eternal security a false teaching, you automatically believe in Salvation by works, conditioned on man.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You dont believe in the eternal security of the believer,

Yes dear friend that is correct, I believe what the bible says as shown through the scriptures shared with you. I do not believe in the false teachings of once saved always saved (OSAS) showing why from the scriptures provided in post # 1464 linked that you refuse to discuss with me.

you have to believe in salvation by works.

No dear friend. I believe in a biblical based salvation as outlined in the scripture. As shown earlier from the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of condemnation and death *Romans 3:9-23; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith in Gods' Word that we are saved through Gods forgiveness of our sins being justified by the blood of Christ and his death and sacrifice for our sins given as a free gift to all those who have faith.

According to the scriptures, obedience to what Gods Word says is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 is obedience to the faith *Romans 1:5 as we believe and follow what his word says *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and does not lead to obeying Gods' Word then our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27.

We should be careful to believe what God says and not the false teaching of OSAS.

You take Care now

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Since you call eternal security a false teaching,

Agreed dear friend OSAS is a false teaching as shown through the scriptures.

you automatically believe in Salvation by works, conditioned on man.

No dear friend I believe what Gods' Word says as shown through the scriptures in the previous posts to you.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes dear friend that is correct, I believe what the bible says as shown through the scriptures shared with you. I do not believe in the false teachings of once saved always saved (OSAS) showing why from the scriptures provided in post # 1464 linked that you refuse to discuss with me.

No dear friend. I believe in a God based salvation as outlined in the scripture. As shown earlier from the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of condemnation and death *Romans 3:9-23; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith in Gods' Word that we are saved through Gods forgiveness of our sins being justified by the blood of Christ and his death and sacrifice for our sins given as a free gift to all those who have faith.

According to the scriptures, obedience to what Gods Word says is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 is obedience to the faith *Romans 1:5 as we believe and follow what his word says *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and does not lead to obeying Gods' Word then our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27.

We should be careful to believe what God says and not the false teaching of OSAS.

You take Care now

You believe in works since you dont believe in eternal security. Gods people are preserved forever.Ps 37:28

For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

 

[Brightfame52]

Agreed dear friend OSAS is a false teaching as shown through the scriptures.

No dear friend I believe what Gods' Word says as shown through the scriptures in the previous posts to you.

It doesnt matter what you say, you dont believe in eternal security of the saint, it automatically defaults to salvation by your works.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

It doesnt matter what you say,

Yes dear friend it does matters what I say if I am saying Gods' Word for he who God sends speaks the Words of God *John 3:34 and His Word is the truth, Spirit and life that we are to live by *John 6:63; John 17:17; Matthew 4:4. Those who believe them receive everlasting life those that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him *John 3:36. Only God's Word is truth therefore *John 17:17 and we should believe and follow them. Our opinions do not really mean much in God's eyes.

you dont believe in eternal security of the saint, it automatically defaults to salvation by your works.

No dear friend. That is not true at all. Genuine faith according to Paul obeys what Gods' Word says *James 2:16-26. Those who believe but do not obey have the dead faith of devils according to these scriptures which is why Jesus says in Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. These of course are God's Word not mine. Our opinions do not really mean much in Gods eyes. Only God's Word is true according to the scriptures and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

Take Care now.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You believe in works

No dear friend. The concept of works is that one has to obey the law for salvation. I do not believe this. In order to obey the law for salvation you would need to have never sinned. The Bible teaches that all of us have sinned and fall short of God's glory. (see Romans 3:9-31). We are saved by God's grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should board. This is what I believe so your bearing false witness.

since you dont believe in eternal security.

Correct dear friend once saved always saved (OSAS) as shown through the scriptures in this thread is a false teaching that is not biblical.

Gods people are preserved forever.Ps 37:28

Agreed dear friend Gods' people however are not those who believe but do not obey what Gods' Word says. Those people are the children of the devil according to 1 John 3:-9-10; 1 John 2:3 and have the dead faith of devils according to James 2:16-26

For the Lord loveth judgment, and forsaketh not his saints; they are preserved for ever: but the seed of the wicked shall be cut off.

Agreed dear friend. Gods' people are those who hear God's Word and believe and follow what Gods' Word says. "But you believe not, because you are not of my sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give to them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. Those who God preserves are those who hear His voice (the Word) and follow it. Not those who hear but do not follow (obey).

Take Care now dear friend.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes dear friend it does matters what I say if I am saying Gods' Word for he who God sends speaks the Words of God *John 3:34 and His Word is the truth, Spirit and life that we are to live by *John 6:63; John 17:17; Matthew 4:4. Those who believe them receive everlasting life those that believes not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God stays on him *John 3:36. Only God's Word is truth therefore *John 17:17 and we should believe and follow them. Our opinions do not really mean much in God's eyes.

No dear friend. That is not true at all. Genuine faith according to Paul obeys what Gods' Word says *James 2:16-26. Those who believe but do not obey have the dead faith of devils according to these scriptures which is why Jesus says in Matthew 7:21-23 Not every one that said to me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that does the will of my Father which is in heaven. These of course are God's Word not mine. Our opinions do not really mean much in Gods eyes. Only God's Word is true according to the scriptures and we should believe and follow them *Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

Take Care now.

See when you deny eternal security, its manifested you believe in Salvation by man.

 

[Brightfame52]

No dear friend. The concept of works is that one has to obey the law for salvation. I do not believe this. In order to obey the law for salvation you would need to have never sinned. The Bible teaches that all of us have sinned and fall short of God's glory. (see Romans 3:9-31). We are saved by God's grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should board. This is what I believe so your bearing false witness.

Correct dear friend once saved always saved (OSAS) as shown through the scriptures in this thread is a false teaching that is not biblical.

Agreed dear friend Gods' people however are not those who believe but do not obey what Gods' Word says. Those people are the children of the devil according to 1 John 3:-9-10; 1 John 2:3 and have the dead faith of devils according to James 2:16-26

Agreed dear friend. Gods' people are those who hear God's Word and believe and follow what Gods' Word says. "But you believe not, because you are not of my sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give to them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. Those who God preserves are those who hear His voice (the Word) and follow it. Not those who hear but do not follow (obey).

Take Care now dear friend.

How can you agree that Gods saints are preserved forever, and believe the saint can lose their salvation ? Thats inconsistency friend.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

See when you deny eternal security,

Yes dear friend, I deny the false teachings of once saved always saved. If that was true Gods' Word would not warn us against departing the faith *see Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 10:26-39 also more scripture is provided that you will not discuss with me from earlier posts showing that OSAS is a false teaching (see here; here; here; with scriptures provided for conditional salvation here linked) that you are unwilling to discuss with me.

its manifested you believe in Salvation by man.

No dear friend your bearing false witness now after I already told you directly what I believe. (see post # 1484 linked) As posted earlier, I believe in the biblical based salvation as outlined in the scripture. As shown earlier from the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of condemnation and death *Romans 3:9-23; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith in Gods' Word that we are saved through Gods forgiveness of our sins being justified by the blood of Christ and his death and sacrifice for our sins given as a free gift to all those who have faith.

According to the scriptures, obedience to what Gods Word says is not how we are saved it is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 is obedience to the faith *Romans 1:5 as we believe and follow what his word says *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit according to the scriptures, it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and does not lead to obeying Gods' Word then our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27 because we do not have genuine faith.

We should be careful to believe what God says and not the false teaching of OSAS.

You take Care now

 

[LoveGodsWord]

How can you agree that Gods saints are preserved forever, and believe the saint can lose their salvation ?

Because that is what Gods' Word says *see Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 10:26-39 also more scripture is provided that you will not discuss with me from earlier posts showing that OSAS is a false teaching (see here; here; here; with scriptures provided for conditional salvation here linked). It is not inconsistent as Gods' salvation is conditional to believing and following what Gods' Word says (James 2:15-26) anything else is the dead faith of devils according to James.

 

[Doug Brents]

How can you agree that Gods saints are preserved forever, and believe the saint can lose their salvation?

Let me ask you a few questions.
You believe that a person is saved, absolutely saved, when they believe that Jesus is God come in the flesh who died for our sins and was resurrected. Correct?
You believe that that salvation cannot be lost for any reason. Correct?

Now, what of the person who believes, lives a Godly life for a while, and then goes back to living a life of unrepentant sin?

There is a problem here, because either the person was never saved in the first place (in which case a person is not saved when they believe), or they are saved and repentance is not necessary for salvation (which would contradict Acts 3:19 and many other passages). You cannot have it both ways.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes dear friend, I deny the false teachings of once saved always saved. If that was true Gods' Word would not warn us against departing the faith *see Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 10:26-39 also more scripture is provided that you will not discuss with me from earlier posts showing that OSAS is a false teaching (see here; here; here; with scriptures provided for conditional salvation here linked) that you are unwilling to discuss with me.

No dear friend your bearing false witness now after I already told you directly what I believe. (see post # 1484 linked) As posted earlier, I believe in the biblical based salvation as outlined in the scripture. As shown earlier from the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of condemnation and death *Romans 3:9-23; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith in Gods' Word that we are saved through Gods forgiveness of our sins being justified by the blood of Christ and his death and sacrifice for our sins given as a free gift to all those who have faith.

According to the scriptures, obedience to what Gods Word says is not how we are saved it is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 is obedience to the faith *Romans 1:5 as we believe and follow what his word says *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit according to the scriptures, it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and does not lead to obeying Gods' Word then our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27 because we do not have genuine faith.

We should be careful to believe what God says and not the false teaching of OSAS.

You take Care now

Im going by what you said, you dont believe in eternal security, so you believe in salvation by what man does. Only man can loose their salvation. What God doeth, no one can take from it or add to it Ecc 3:14

I know that, whatsoever God doeth, it shall be for ever: nothing can be put to it, nor any thing taken from it: and God doeth it, that men should fear before him.

 

[Brightfame52]

Because that is what Gods' Word says *see Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 10:26-39 also more scripture is provided that you will not discuss with me from earlier posts showing that OSAS is a false teaching (see here; here; here; with scriptures provided for conditional salvation here linked). It is not inconsistent as Gods' salvation is conditional to believing and following what Gods' Word says (James 2:15-26) anything else is the dead faith of devils according to James.

Gods word says the saints are preserved forever. Again if you believe you can lose your salvation, your confidence is put in man, not God. Just as no man is saved based on his will, or efforts, no man remains saved based on his will and efforts at obedience, and no man can lose his salvation based on any act of disobedience.

 

[Brightfame52]

Let me ask you a few questions.
You believe that a person is saved, absolutely saved, when they believe that Jesus is God come in the flesh who died for our sins and was resurrected. Correct?
You believe that that salvation cannot be lost for any reason. Correct?

Now, what of the person who believes, lives a Godly life for a while, and then goes back to living a life of unrepentant sin?

There is a problem here, because either the person was never saved in the first place (in which case a person is not saved when they believe), or they are saved and repentance is not necessary for salvation (which would contradict Acts 3:19 and many other passages). You cannot have it both ways.

A Person is saved based on what Christ has done for them, not by their lifestyle.