WHY SALVATION CAN BE LOST

[Brightfame52]

There is no such thing as eternal security. It is a false teaching that is not biblical as shown in the scriptures, that you refuse to discuss with me (here; here; here; with scriptures provided for conditional salvation here linked). All you have provided is your words unsupported by scripture bearing false witness to what I believe so we will agree to disagree.

Take Care

Again, you reaffirm that you reject eternal security, you dont even believe it exists, so you condition salvation, going to heaven on man, thats works !

 

[Doug Brents]

Let’s not forget the Importance of the OBJECT of our faith, which is Jesus Christ. Our faith is made alive in Christ by grace through faith and not by works. (Ephesians 2:5-9) Authentic faith is demonstrated by genuine good works, (James 2:14-24) yet even people with mere “mental ascent” belief in Christ can still produce action with the wrong motivations and intentions. Namely, for the sake of obtaining salvation by works. Such people may even be “religious” but they are still not right with God. (Matthew 7:22-23)

Of course Jesus is the object of our faith. He is the author of salvation to all who obey Him. Without Him, there would be no salvation. And yes, there are many who don't really believe who go through the motions yet remain unsaved. At a rally, or camp, or other gathering where many are being baptized, some go to get baptized without really understanding what they are doing, or why, just to be part of the "in" crowd. But they have no understanding, no belief, so their actions are not in faith, and they remain lost.

Without the right kind of faith that trusts in Jesus Christ alone for salvation (Romans 3:24-28) you have nothing. Actions which “follow” and are produced out of faith is the demonstrative evidence of authentic belief/faith. Belief/faith is credited as righteousness BEFORE the action follows. (Romans 4:2-6)

Actions do not "follow" faith. Actions are an integral part of faith without which there is no faith.

Once again confessing with our mouth that Jesus is Lord and believing in our heart that God raised him from the dead are not two separate steps to salvation, but are chronologically together. (Romans 10:8-10) Plain and simple.

NO ONE IS SAYING ANY DIFFERENTLY. Yes, they happen at the same time, and that time is BEFORE salvation is received. This is a physical action that leads to (not follows, or flows out of, salvation). Without a verbal, public, confession of Jesus as Lord salvation is not received.

Absolutely false and this remains the very heart of your error. You basically make no distinction between faith and action/works. You basically wrap both faith and works up in a package and simply stamp “faith” on the package. You also basically define faith “as” works which remains your stumbling block and (and the stumbling block of all works-salvationists) and keeps you from understanding the truth. Confusing the fruit with the root remains your Achilles’ Life flows through the root and produces the fruit and not the other way around.

I am sick and tired of the name calling. There is no such thing as a "works-salvationist". The Bible COMMANDS action that leads to the reception of salvation (Mark 16:16, Rom 10:9-10, Acts 2:38, etc). Only someone who defies God's direct command says differently. James says explicitly that without action, faith is dead. The dead cannot bring life. Dead faith cannot bring salvation. There is no faith that does not, from its very inception, have action associated with it. There is no, "faith now, and then next week I have action". There is faith and action NOW, or no faith at all.

We are saved through faith at its origin of trusting in Jesus Christ alone for salvation prior to producing action/works. Romans 10:9,10 does not teach that we are saved by a work of confession later, after we believe unto righteousness. The word of faith is in our mouth and heart TOGETHER. Remember that no one can say that Jesus is Lord except BY the Holy Spirit. (1 Corinthians 12:3) This goes beyond near “lip service” confession. (Matthew 7:21)

Go back to the analogy of the tightrope walker over the Grand Canyon. The walker is Jesus. Salvation is on the other side of the Canyon. Jesus is the only one who can carry us over. Faith is getting in the wheelbarrow. We have to get in the wheelbarrow, or we remain on the "lost" side of the Canyon. Belief (mental assent) stays flat-footed on the "lost" ground. But faith takes action. There is no faith without action. Jesus doesn't pick us up and put us in the wheelbarrow. He takes us from the "lost" side to the "saved" side, but He requires that we confess His name as Lord (Rom 10:9-10, and be baptized into His name (Mark 16:16, Acts 2:38).

Your argument flies in the face of Ephesians 2:8,9 and Romans 5:1,2. Like I said before. It’s not hard to understand. It’s just hard for you to ACCEPT.

I understand exactly what you are saying, and yes, it is hard to accept your position because it defies Scripture. Eph 2:8-9 and Rom 5:1-2 do not say that salvation is received before any action is taken. They say that we are saved, justified, forgiven through FAITH. Can dead faith save? NO!!! When MUST faith exist? BEFORE salvation is received because it is THROUGH faith that we receive the grace of salvation.

That Abraham believed God in Genesis 15:6 and it (faith, not works) was credited to him as righteousness (Romans 4:2-3) many years before he offered up Isaac on the altar in Genesis 22 and was shown to be righteous (James 2:21) is in fact exactly what Scripture teaches.

Let me see if I understand you correctly; you are saying that the Holy Spirit didn't really mean what He said through James. Either that, or you are saying that the Holy Spirit is contradicting Himself. Because in Rom 4 it says that Abraham was justified by faith. But in James it says Abraham was justified by his works. Now, either I am right that faith and works are integral parts of the same thing, and without both you have nothing (James 2:26), or Scripture contains a contradiction, and our entire religion is worthless. Which is it?

Faith is the root and works are the fruit. James is discussing the evidence of faith and not the essence of faith. Big difference.

No sir. They are indispensable, inseparable parts of the same thing. If there is no evidence, then there is no essence. Faith without action is DEAD! If there is no action, right from the very beginning, the inception, of faith's existence then there is no faith, it is "stillborn".

You cannot demonstrate faith without action, yet you cannot have proper action without authentic faith.

Certainly. You could "go through the motions", but it is worthless action without the proper understanding and belief behind it. As James says, they are without one, the other is meaningless.

Abraham was “shown” (key word) to be righteous by works. Now if Abraham would have produced no actions at all, then he would have demonstrated a bogus faith, but of course, that was not the case. Shown to be righteous, exhibited and demonstrated are key words here in regards to works.

He was "shown" to be righteous by faith as well. Faith and action: inseparable.

I have already thoroughly explained these passages of Scripture to you multiple times after properly harmonizing Scripture with Scripture, but you seem fixed on your belief system. Some people really struggle with church indoctrination.

No, you have shown your bias to these passages of Scripture, you have not harmonized them with ALL Scripture. You have harmonized them with the Scriptures you feel best explain them and agree with your preconceptions. But to honestly harmonize them, you have to accept the truth behind these Scriptures, which you evidently don't.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

What you mean no not really ? If you dont believe in the eternal security of the believer, then you believe that man does something to stay saved, to be secure.

Very simple. I do not believe in the false teachings of once saved always saved (OSAS) and shown why from the scriptures (see here; here; here; with scriptures provided for conditional salvation here linked). According to the scriptures if you claim to believe in Jesus but do not obey what His word says it is not genuine saving faith. It is a faith that James calls the dead faith of devils in James 2:16-26 that does not save anyone.

Hope this is helpful.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Again, you reaffirm that you reject eternal security, you dont even believe it exists,

Yes dear friend I reject the false teachings of once saved always saved (OSAS) because it is not biblical.

WHY IS OSAS A FALSE DOCTRINE?

According to the scriptures, OSAS is a false doctrine that is not supported by scripture as all scripture and God's promises are "conditional" to believing and obeying what Gods' Word says *see John 3:36; Matthew 7:21; John 10:26-27. Anything else according to James is the dead faith of devils in James 2:16-26. As Joshua says our part is to choose this day who we will follow *see Joshua 24:15; Deuteronomy 30:19. We have free will to believe or not believe and follow what Gods' Word says. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them (see Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

According to the scriptures we are saved by God's grace through faith *Ephesians 2:8-9 and whatsoever is not of faith is sin *Romans 14:23 and without faith it is impossible to please God because he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. No one receives Gods' Spirit if they do not believe and follow what Gods' Word says according to Acts of the Apostles 5:32. God's Word says "repentance" or the turning away from sin which is defined in the scriptures as breaking God's law and not believing Gods' Word - 1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23 is also a condition of receiving God's Spirit according to Peter when he says "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" - Acts of the Apostles 2:38.

As shown throughout this OP and many scriptures from the bible OSAS is not biblical or supported by scripture. Hebrews 6:4-8 and many other scriptures in the bible show that a believer has free will to choose to believe and follow God or to choose to not believe and follow what Gods' Word says. There is also no scripture anywhere in the bible that says that a genuine believer cannot depart the faith at any time of our walk with Jesus. If that was the case "believers" would not be warned against departing the faith in Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 4:11; Hebrews 10:26-31; Hebrews 12:15; 1 Timothy 1:18-20; 1 Timothy 4:1-7; Galatians 5:2-4; 2 Peter 2:20-22; 2 Peter 3:17; Luke 8:11-15; 1 Corinthians 10:12; 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

Now, do not misunderstand me, true believers cannot lose their salvation but they can forfeit their salvation and willingly throw it away by rebelling against God and His Word. Here is an interesting set of scriptures but together by another member you might like to consider that also agree with the scriptures already provided above that you might find helpful.

For example...

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

• Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
• Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
• The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
• Judas Iscariot (Psalms 41:9) (Matthew 10:1, Matthew 10:16) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
• Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
• Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
• Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
• Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
• Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
• Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

• The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
• Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
• The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
• Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
• Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
• Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
• Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
• Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
• Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
• The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
• (James 5:19-20)

For Jesus is the Light and we are to shine the Light of Christ within our lives. For there are those who think they can serve Jesus and also live for oneself, sin, and evil; But this is wrong, though. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:20-21).

Actually, Paul is against the a Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) or sin and still be saved type belief.

For Paul says,

1. No one enter God's rest in sin and unbelief (Hebrews 3:8-19; Hebrews 4:1-11)
   
2. Fall away from the faith (Hebrews 6:6)
3. If we continue in sin and unbelief we will be in danger of judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)
4. We can draw back from the faith into unbelief and sin (Hebrews 10:38-39)
   
5. We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).
6. We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).
7. We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).
8. We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).
9. We can sow to the flesh and reap corruption instead of sowing to the Spirit which reaps everlasting life. (Galatians 6:8).
10. The Corinthians believers were warned that God would destroy their temple if they defiled it (1 Corinthians 3:17). This was no doubt because the Corinthians justified the sins of strife, and envy (1 Corinthians 3:3) which are sins that we see listed in Galatians 5:19-21. Paul said that they which do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Obviously the Corinthian believers were initially saved by the gospel, but they did not continue to abide with God and His good ways by the time Paul wrote 1st Corinthians.
11. We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).
12. We can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel if we do not provide for our own household (1 Timothy 5:8).
13. We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).
14. Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).

...............

Lets be careful to believe and follow what Gods' Word says. Our thoughts and opinions do not over ride the scriptures which are Gods Word. Now what is it that you disagree with from the scriptures provided in this post?

so you condition salvation, going to heaven on man, thats works !

Nonsense. According to the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved (works) because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of sin which is condemnation and death *Romans 3:9-23; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith in Gods' Word that we are saved through Gods forgiveness of our sins being justified by the blood of Christ and his death and sacrifice for our sins given as a free gift to all those who have faith.

According to the scriptures, obedience to what Gods Word says is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 is obedience to the faith *Romans 1:5 as we believe and follow what his word says *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and does not lead to obeying Gods' Word then our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27.

Hope this is helpful

 

[Brightfame52]

Very simple. I do not believe in the false teachings of once saved always saved (OSAS) and shown why from the scriptures (see here; here; here; with scriptures provided for conditional salvation here linked). According to the scriptures if you claim to believe in Jesus but do not obey what His word says it is not genuine saving faith. It is a faith that James calls the dead faith of devils in James 2:16-26 that does not save anyone.

Hope this is helpful.

Okay, you dont believe in eternal security, you call it a false teaching, therefore you believe in works salvation, that is salvation conditioned on what man does. Its that simple

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes dear friend I reject the false teachings of once saved always saved (OSAS) because it is not biblical.

WHY IS OSAS A FALSE DOCTRINE?

According to the scriptures, OSAS is a false doctrine that is not supported by scripture as all scripture and God's promises are "conditional" to believing and obeying what Gods' Word says *see John 3:36; Matthew 7:21; John 10:26-27. Anything else according to James is the dead faith of devils in James 2:16-26. As Joshua says our part is to choose this day who we will follow *see Joshua 24:15; Deuteronomy 30:19. We have free will to believe or not believe and follow what Gods' Word says. Only God's Word is true and we should believe and follow them (see Romans 3:4; Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

According to the scriptures we are saved by God's grace through faith *Ephesians 2:8-9 and whatsoever is not of faith is sin *Romans 14:23 and without faith it is impossible to please God because he that comes to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him. No one receives Gods' Spirit if they do not believe and follow what Gods' Word says according to Acts of the Apostles 5:32. God's Word says "repentance" or the turning away from sin which is defined in the scriptures as breaking God's law and not believing Gods' Word - 1 John 3:4; Romans 14:23 is also a condition of receiving God's Spirit according to Peter when he says "Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost" - Acts of the Apostles 2:38.

As shown throughout this OP and many scriptures from the bible OSAS is not biblical or supported by scripture. Hebrews 6:4-8 and many other scriptures in the bible show that a believer has free will to choose to believe and follow God or to choose to not believe and follow what Gods' Word says. There is also no scripture anywhere in the bible that says that a genuine believer cannot depart the faith at any time of our walk with Jesus. If that was the case "believers" would not be warned against departing the faith in Hebrews 6:4-8; Hebrews 4:11; Hebrews 10:26-31; Hebrews 12:15; 1 Timothy 1:18-20; 1 Timothy 4:1-7; Galatians 5:2-4; 2 Peter 2:20-22; 2 Peter 3:17; Luke 8:11-15; 1 Corinthians 10:12; 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

Now, do not misunderstand me, true believers cannot lose their salvation but they can forfeit their salvation and willingly throw it away by rebelling against God and His Word. Here is an interesting set of scriptures but together by another member you might like to consider that also agree with the scriptures already provided above that you might find helpful.

For example...

Here is a list of believers who have forfeited their salvation:

• Saul (1 Samuel 16:14) (1 Samuel 31:4)
• Demas (2 Timothy 4:10)
• The Prodigal Son (Luke 15:11-32)
• Judas Iscariot (Psalms 41:9) (Matthew 10:1, Matthew 10:16) (Luke 6:16) (Acts 1:25)
• Hymenaeus and Philetus (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
• Unnamed Christians destroyed by false teaching (2 Timothy 2:17-18)
• Many Unnamed Disciples (John 6:66)
• Some Younger Christian Widows (1 Timothy 5:14-15)
• Some Christians Eager For Money (1 Timothy 6:8-10)
• Ananias and Sapphira (Acts of the Apostles 5:1-11)

And here is a list of potential fallen believers:

• The Servant Who is Not Looking For Him (Luke 12:45-46)
• Recent Convert Who is a Potential Spiritual Leader (1 Timothy 3:6)
• The Unforgiving in Heart (Matthew 6:14-15)
• Luke Warm Unrepentant Believer (Revelation 3:14-22)
• Fruitless Christians (John 15:1-10) (Matthew 25:14-30)
• Widows That Live in Pleasure (1 Timothy 5:5-6)
• Believers Whose Seed Fell Upon the Rocks (Luke 8:13)
• Believers Whose Seed Was Choked by Thorns (Matthew 13:22)
• Gentile Believer Who Did Not Have on a Wedding Garment (Matthew 22:1-14) (Revelation 19:7-8)
• The Potential Fellow Believer Who Erred From the Truth & Was Converted Back
• (James 5:19-20)

For Jesus is the Light and we are to shine the Light of Christ within our lives. For there are those who think they can serve Jesus and also live for oneself, sin, and evil; But this is wrong, though. "For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God" (John 3:20-21).

Actually, Paul is against the a Once Saved Always Saved (OSAS) or sin and still be saved type belief.

For Paul says,

1. No one enter God's rest in sin and unbelief (Hebrews 3:8-19; Hebrews 4:1-11)
   
2. Fall away from the faith (Hebrews 6:6)
3. If we continue in sin and unbelief we will be in danger of judgement (Hebrews 10:26-27)
4. We can draw back from the faith into unbelief and sin (Hebrews 10:38-39)
   
5. We can fall from grace (Galatians 5:4).
6. We can be moved away from the hope (Colossians 1:23).
7. We can be a castaway (1 Corinthians 9:27).
8. We can be cut off just like the Jews if we do not continue in God’s goodness (Romans 11:20-22).
9. We can sow to the flesh and reap corruption instead of sowing to the Spirit which reaps everlasting life. (Galatians 6:8).
10. The Corinthians believers were warned that God would destroy their temple if they defiled it (1 Corinthians 3:17). This was no doubt because the Corinthians justified the sins of strife, and envy (1 Corinthians 3:3) which are sins that we see listed in Galatians 5:19-21. Paul said that they which do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God. Obviously the Corinthian believers were initially saved by the gospel, but they did not continue to abide with God and His good ways by the time Paul wrote 1st Corinthians.
11. We can shipwreck our faith (1 Timothy 1:19).
12. We can deny the faith and be worse than an infidel if we do not provide for our own household (1 Timothy 5:8).
13. We can err from the faith and pierce ourselves thru with many sorrows if we love and covet after money (1 Timothy 6:10).
14. Hymnenaeus and Philetus have overthrown the faith of some (2 Timothy 2:18).

...............

Lets be careful to believe and follow what Gods' Word says. Our thoughts and opinions do not over ride the scriptures which are Gods Word. Now what is it that you disagree with from the scriptures provided in this post?



Nonsense. According to the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved (works) because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of sin which is condemnation and death *Romans 3:9-23; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith in Gods' Word that we are saved through Gods forgiveness of our sins being justified by the blood of Christ and his death and sacrifice for our sins given as a free gift to all those who have faith.

According to the scriptures, obedience to what Gods Word says is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 is obedience to the faith *Romans 1:5 as we believe and follow what his word says *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and does not lead to obeying Gods' Word then our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27.

Hope this is helpful

No its not nonsense. You condition going to heaven on works, on what a person does.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Okay, you dont believe in eternal security, you call it a false teaching, therefore you believe in works salvation, that is salvation conditioned on what man does. Its that simple

This post is untruthful repetition that is unresponsive to the scriptures in the post you are quoting from that disagree with your words in post # 1464 linked.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

No its not nonsense. You condition going to heaven on works, on what a person does.

The scriptures in post # 1464 linked you are quoting from are Gods' Words not my words and they disagree with your words that are not Gods' Word so we will agree to disagree because according to the scriptures, only Gods' Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to Romans 3:4 and Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

 

[Brightfame52]

This post is untruthful repetition that is unresponsive to the scriptures in the post you are quoting from that disagree with your words in post # 1464 linked.

The matter is settled, you dont believe in eternal security, you believe in works salvation conditioned on man !

 

[Brightfame52]

The scriptures in post # 1464 linked you are quoting from are Gods' Words not my words and they disagree with your words that are not Gods' Word so we will agree to disagree because according to the scriptures, only Gods' Word is true and we should believe and follow them according to Romans 3:4 and Acts of the Apostles 5:29.

You condition going to heaven on works, on what a person does. Why are you even debating it ?

 

[LoveGodsWord]

The matter is settled, you dont believe in eternal security, you believe in works salvation conditioned on man !

Yes the matter is settled now for all to see that your post is untruthful repetition that is unresponsive to the scriptures in the post you are quoting from as shown in post # 1464 linked that are in disagreement with you and that your unwilling to discuss.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

You condition going to heaven on works, on what a person does. Why are you even debating it ?

No, dear friend. I believe no such thing. I believe what the scriptures teach. According to the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved (works) because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of sin which is condemnation and death *Romans 3:9-23; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith in Gods' Word that we are saved through Gods forgiveness of our sins being justified by the blood of Christ and his death and sacrifice for our sins given as a free gift to all those who have faith. According to the scriptures, obedience to what Gods Word says is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 is obedience to the faith *Romans 1:5 as we believe and follow what his word says *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and does not lead to obeying Gods' Word then our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27.

Hope this is helpful

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes the matter is settled now for all to see that your post is untruthful repetition that is unresponsive to the scriptures in the post you are quoting from as shown in post # 1464 linked that are in disagreement with you and that your unwilling to discuss.

Its been discussed, and concluded that you dont believe the scripture teaches eternal security, so you believe in security based on man !

 

[Brightfame52]

No, dear friend. I believe no such thing. I believe what the scriptures teach. According to the scriptures, we are saved by grace through faith and not of ourselves it is a gift of God and not of works lest any man should boast *Ephesians 2:8-9. Obedience to God's law is not how we are saved (works) because all of us have already broken the law and are under it's penalty of sin which is condemnation and death *Romans 3:9-23; 2 Corinthians 3:3-11. So it is by God's grace through faith in Gods' Word that we are saved through Gods forgiveness of our sins being justified by the blood of Christ and his death and sacrifice for our sins given as a free gift to all those who have faith. According to the scriptures, obedience to what Gods Word says is the fruit of genuine faith of one that is already been given Gods promise of salvation and the fruit of God's work in us *Philippians 2:13 is obedience to the faith *Romans 1:5 as we believe and follow what his word says *John 10:26-27. If our faith has no fruit it is dead *James 2:18-20; 26 and does not lead to obeying Gods' Word then our tree will be cast down and thrown into the fire *Matthew 3:10; 7:19-20; 13:49-50; Hebrews 10:26-27.

Hope this is helpful

Oh yes you do, friend. You dont believe in once saved always saved, eternal security. Then you believe in security and going to heaven is dependent on man, and what man does.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Oh yes you do, friend. You dont believe in once saved always saved, eternal security. Then you believe in security and going to heaven is dependent on man, and what man does.

No not at all dear friend. I do not believe in the dead faith of devils that James warns us about in James 2:10-11. According to the scriptures God's Word teaches genuine faith obeys what God's Word says.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Its been discussed, and concluded that you dont believe the scripture teaches eternal security

Yes dear friend, I do not believe in the false teachings of once saved always saved (OSAS) showing why from the scriptures provided in post # 1464 linked that you refuse to discuss with me.

so you believe in security based on man!

No dear friend. I believe in God's security based on faith and believing and following what Gods' Word says.

 

[Brightfame52]

No not at all dear friend. I do not believe in the dead faith of devils that James warns us about in James 2:10-11. According to the scriptures God's Word teaches genuine faith obeys what God's Word says.

Oh yeah, See believing that your works of obedience play any roll in getting you saved or maintaining your salvation, that's a sign you are trusting in your works, not the Grace of God through Jesus Christ.

 

[Brightfame52]

Yes dear friend, I do not believe in the false teachings of once saved always saved (OSAS) showing why from the scriptures provided in post # 1464 linked that you refuse to discuss with me.

No dear friend. I believe in God's security based on faith and believing and following what Gods' Word says.

I know you dont believe in once saved always saved because you believe in works salvation conditioned on man ! Theres nothing else to discuss

 

[LoveGodsWord]

Oh yeah, See believing that your works of obedience play any roll in getting you saved or maintaining your salvation, that's a sign you are trusting in your works, not the Grace of God through Jesus Christ.

No dear friend, it is all about understanding the difference between what genuine faith is and what genuine saving faith is not. If you believe that you can believe Gods' Word and not obey what Gods' Word says James calls this the dead faith of devils in James 2:10-11. It is a false teaching dear friend and not biblical as already shown from the scriptures already.

 

[LoveGodsWord]

I know you dont believe in once saved always saved

Yes dear friend, I do not believe in the false teachings of once saved always saved (OSAS) showing why from the scriptures provided in post # 1464 linked that you refuse to discuss with me.

you believe in works salvation conditioned on man ! Theres nothing else to discuss

No dear friend. I believe in God's security based on faith through believing and following what Gods' Word says. As shown earlier this is genuine faith and anything else is the dead faith of devils according to James 2:16-26

Take Care.