Largest US life expectancy drop since WW II

[essentialsaltes]

How would you know to compare how you (any particular person) would have fared without the vaccine if you got it?
...
No, what you do NOT know is whether any individual would have fared differently with or without the vaccine. That is the relevant comparison.

Your bizarre attempt to dodge statistics by focusing on the individual is pointless.

It's tantamount to saying: smokers and nonsmokers both get lung cancer. We have no way to know if smoking is bad for health, because we can't say whether Fred (who smokes and was just diagnosed with lung cancer) might not have gotten lung cancer anyway if he hadn't smoked.

Baloney. We do know the relative risks of lung cancer for smokers and nonsmokers, and they are not the same. And smoking is bad for health. Fred's individual case does not wipe away the power of large numbers and statistics that show differential outcomes for the two cases.

The same is true of vaccinated versus unvaccinated.

Nearly EVERY SINGLE VICTIM has co-morbidities

Even if this were true, the different death rates of vaccinated versus unvaccinated still stands.

This is an INDIVIDUAL RISK situation.

No, it's a highly contagious disease. It's a population risk situation.

 

[Aryeh Jay]

When I read easily available information that disproves something that is posted online, I tend to think that every thing that poster posts is false.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Your bizarre attempt to dodge statistics by focusing on the individual is pointless.

It's tantamount to saying: smokers and nonsmokers both get lung cancer. We have no way to know if smoking is bad for health, because we can't say whether Fred (who smokes and was just diagnosed with lung cancer) might not have gotten lung cancer anyway if he hadn't smoked.

Baloney. We do know the relative risks of lung cancer for smokers and nonsmokers, and they are not the same. And smoking is bad for health. Fred's individual case does not wipe away the power of large numbers and statistics that show differential outcomes for the two cases.

The same is true of vaccinated versus unvaccinated.



Even if this were true, the different death rates of vaccinated versus unvaccinated still stands.



No, it's a highly contagious disease. It's a population risk situation.

No, it is rather an refutation of the unsupported conclusion that a new drug given widely caused a better outcome than can be proven.

We have no idea since 98% of the population were going to live anyway, and/or have mild-moderate symptoms. Since we know a 98% (plus or minus) survival rate to be true, any argument that taking a drug for a condition that 98% were going to survive anyway was "successful in preventing death" is inexplicable and flummoxing.

No, the stat most decidedly does not stand of those who lived were less likely to have co-morbidities. They would have been fine either way, the evidence strongly suggests. But there was product to move and fear to stoke (you don't want to "kill grandma" - even though we knew up front and it was finally admitted that getting the virus and spreading it was completely unrelated to vaccine status).

Even the stats are off. "Unvaccinated" means anyone who had one vaccine and a bad reaction...they are considered "unvaccinated" before two weeks elapse after the second dose.

 

[mama2one]

.

 

[sfs]

We have no idea since 98% of the population were going to live anyway, and/or have mild-moderate symptoms. Since we know a 98% (plus or minus) survival rate to be true, any argument that taking a drug for a condition that 98% were going to survive anyway was "successful in preventing death" is inexplicable and flummoxing.

Look, I realize that you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to epidemiology or public health, but it is still amazing to me that you can make such an utterly wrong argument with apparent seriousness.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Look, I realize that you have no idea what you're talking about when it comes to epidemiology or public health, but it is still amazing to me that you can make such an utterly wrong argument with apparent seriousness.

Look, I am not unaware of the compulsion to defend this inexplicable "Had I not had the vaccine, I would have been so much worse" to the death. Cognitive dissonance is strong.

The truth is that 98% were not going to die, status irrespective. Millions never even knew they had it ever, until they had to be tested for some reason, like school.

The people at risk were those who were obese, elderly, or had mostly multiple co-morbidities. Read the stats.

Those people should have, and mostly did, take all the precautions they deemed necessary. As was always true prior to this situation.

 

[mindlight]

Look, I am not unaware of the compulsion to defend this inexplicable "Had I not had the vaccine, I would have been so much worse" to the death. Cognitive dissonance is strong.

The truth is that 98% were not going to die, status irrespective. Millions never even knew they had it ever, until they had to be tested for some reason, like school.

The people at risk were those who were obese, elderly, or had mostly multiple co-morbidities. Read the stats.

Those people should have, and mostly did, take all the precautions they deemed necessary. As was always true prior to this situation.

How do you know that you do not have comorbidities? Just because covid mysteriously rides the bandwagon of preexisting conditions does not make it any less dangerous. It triggers dangers lurking inside us or works around a compromised immune system. That is just the nature of its threat. We still have to fight it with all the tools at our disposal.

I had a comprehensive health check as part of a health research project and know that I have no cancers or underlying conditions and that I am fit and healthy and at low risk. Only 1 in 1000 have had the level of checks I had which included 2 days of scanning and MRIs. I still got vaccinated and boosted, because:

1. it was free;
2. I understand what a vaccine does in training my body to resist disease and improve my immune response;
3. I do not want to be a spreader who kills people more vulnerable than myself.

 

[whatbogsends]

U.S. life expectancy falls for 2nd year in a row

Despite the availability of life-saving COVID-19 vaccines, so many people died in the second year of the pandemic in the U.S. that the nation's life expectancy dropped for a second year in a row last year, according to a new analysis.

The analysis of provisional government statistics found U.S. life expectancy fell by just under a half a year in 2021, adding to a dramatic plummet in life expectancy that occurred in 2020. Public health experts had hoped the vaccines would prevent another drop the following year.

Surprisingly, while the 2020 drop in life expectancy hit Blacks and Hispanics hardest, that wasn't the case in 2021, the analysis found. Life expectancy among Hispanics didn't significantly change between 2020 and 2021, and life expectancy of Blacks actually inched up slightly — by a little less than half a year.

In contrast, the life expectancy of whites fell by about a third of a year, mostly among white men.

Yeah, "despite"...

 

[jacks]

Maybe recent events just sapped a lot of people's will to live.

 

[sfs]

Look, I am not unaware of the compulsion to defend this inexplicable "Had I not had the vaccine, I would have been so much worse" to the death.

Sorry, but what does that have to do with determining the effectiveness of vaccines?

The truth is that 98% were not going to die, status irrespective.

Right. What does that have to do with determining the effectiveness of vaccines?

Millions never even knew they had it ever, until they had to be tested for some reason, like school.

Same question.

The people at risk were those who were obese, elderly, or had mostly multiple co-morbidities. Read the stats.

Same question.

Serious followup question: how do you think we determine whether a vaccine is effective?

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

How do you know that you do not have comorbidities? Just because covid mysteriously rides the bandwagon of preexisting conditions does not make it any less dangerous. It triggers dangers lurking inside us or works around a compromised immune system. That is just the nature of its threat. We still have to fight it with all the tools at our disposal.

I had a comprehensive health check as part of a health research project and know that I have no cancers or underlying conditions and that I am fit and healthy and at low risk. Only 1 in 1000 have had the level of checks I had which included 2 days of scanning and MRIs. I still got vaccinated and boosted, because:

1. it was free;
2. I understand what a vaccine does in training my body to resist disease and improve my immune response;
3. I do not want to be a spreader who kills people more vulnerable than myself.

All of nature works like this. Any one of us could step into the next world at any time, due to an aneurysm or something. Or live until 110. Life is a risk. You are aware we are covered in bacteria and viruses all of the time, right? Mostly our immune system does its job.

Sure, anything odd could happen at any time, so take more precautions yourself? Don't mask little kids for 2+ years - even though they don't even get sick, for the most part - out of irrational fear, like the Teachers unions did.

You are the owner of your body and should do whatever you deem wise to do, in conjunction with your own doctor. Your body, your choice, right?

Give every else the same respect, as has always been the case - until this anomaly.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Sorry, but what does that have to do with determining the effectiveness of vaccines?

Right. What does that have to do with determining the effectiveness of vaccines?

Same question.

Same question.

Serious followup question: how do you think we determine whether a vaccine is effective?

Well, according to the CDC, this:

CDC monitors COVID-19 vaccine effectiveness to understand how well the vaccines:

In the real world, younger people did better than older people. Healthy people did better than people with co-morbidities. It didn't prevent spread or contraction, unlike the rhetoric suggested. People who are quadruple-vaxxed are still turning up positive (White House Correspondent's dinner was a super-spreader). Time to let it go. We've all had it. We've done what we could do.

• Protect different age groups, such as children, adolescents, and adults, including adults ages 65 and older
• Protect specific groups (e.g., people with underlying health conditions, healthcare workers)
• Protect against new variants (e.g., Delta, Omicron)
• Reduce the risk of infection, including infection without symptoms and other breakthrough cases
• Protect against milder COVID-19 illness
• Prevent more serious outcomes, such as hospitalization or death
• Prevent spreading COVID-19 to others
• Provide long- and short-term protection
• Perform among people who have received vaccine boosters
  
  
  

 

[cow451]

All of nature works like this. Any one of us could step into the next world at any time, due to an aneurysm or something. Or live until 110. Life is a risk. You are aware we are covered in bacteria and viruses all of the time, right? Mostly our immune system does its job.

Sure, anything odd could happen at any time, so take more precautions yourself? Don't mask little kids for 2+ years - even though they don't even get sick, for the most part - out of irrational fear, like the Teachers unions did.

You are the owner of your body and should do whatever you deem wise to do, in conjunction with your own doctor. Your body, your choice, right?

Give every else the same respect, as has always been the case - until this anomaly.

Viruses survive by mutating so it will have more hosts. Typically the mutations are less severe, but continue surviving. The more “your body” and everyone else’s gets exposed unnecessarily the better for the virus and tough cookies for the immunocompromised. Just sayin….

 

[mindlight]

All of nature works like this. Any one of us could step into the next world at any time, due to an aneurysm or something. Or live until 110. Life is a risk. You are aware we are covered in bacteria and viruses all of the time, right? Mostly our immune system does its job.

Sure, anything odd could happen at any time, so take more precautions yourself? Don't mask little kids for 2+ years - even though they don't even get sick, for the most part - out of irrational fear, like the Teachers unions did.

You are the owner of your body and should do whatever you deem wise to do, in conjunction with your own doctor. Your body, your choice, right?

Give every else the same respect, as has always been the case - until this anomaly.

This is not just a matter of choice. As with war, famine, and the climate crisis, the pandemic is a corporate challenge that evokes corporate responsibilities. Careless and uninformed words, like the ones you have shared in this thread, kill people.

 

[KCfromNC]

Yeah, "despite"...

Yep, the copious data showing vaccines reduce the chances of death from covid is pretty conclusive.

 

[KCfromNC]

All of nature works like this. Any one of us could step into the next world at any time, due to an aneurysm or something. Or live until 110. Life is a risk. You are aware we are covered in bacteria and viruses all of the time, right? Mostly our immune system does its job.

Even more so when it is assisted by vaccines.

 

[mama2one]

Yep, the copious data showing vaccines reduce the chances of death from covid is pretty conclusive.

deaths from covid are finally decreasing in my county

57% vaccinated plus 21% had covid = 78%

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

Viruses survive by mutating so it will have more hosts. Typically the mutations are less severe, but continue surviving. The more “your body” and everyone else’s gets exposed unnecessarily the better for the virus and tough cookies for the immunocompromised. Just sayin….

Yes. Typically, the mutations are less severe. Or we'd all be dead long before now.

The immunocompromised take their own precautions, as has always been the case. Believe me. I grew up with one.

 

[RestoreTheJoy]

This is not just a matter of choice. As with war, famine, and the climate crisis, the pandemic is a corporate challenge that evokes corporate responsibilities. Careless and uninformed words, like the ones you have shared in this thread, kill people.

And we met them. We stayed home for months, we distanced, we (nearly all) masked, we (nearly all) vaccinated - and nearly ALL of the older and or/immunocompromised did and even continue to do these things. We are on year three. Time to move on with our lives.

My words no more kill people than yours do.

 

[mama2one]

We are on year three. Time to move on with our lives.

people are still getting sick as well as dying from covid
it hasn't left

spoke with next door neighbor today (socially distanced)
they were on vacation last week with their adult kids & grandkids

one person in their group got covid & gave it to everyone even the 5 mos old! some vacation