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A Literal Theistic Evolutionary Reading of Genesis 1

Halbhh

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Gen.1:2 - The earth is without form, shapeless and void. This earth has more in common with a bubble in a lava lamp than it does a spherical planet.
That would be plausible (or could be though on the other hand the nature of gravity is that it will pull a large mass into a roughly spherical shape), but we can't accept any idea that doesn't agree with the clear wording in the text, if you notice the rest of the verse(!) --
Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

So, at this moment, in verse 2, Earth is (at this moment already) a Water World, the scripture tells us!

A Water World.

And in 2017, the first hard evidence was found to support that Earth was once a Water World (!)....

So, today, the leading mainstream science view is just like the Genesis chapter 1 text: Earth was very long ago once a Water World.

Ancient Earth was a water world -- AAAS
 
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SkovandOfMitzae

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That would be plausible (or could be though on the other hand the nature of gravity is that it will pull a large mass into a roughly spherical shape), but we can't accept any idea that doesn't agree with the clear wording in the text, if you notice the rest of the verse(!) --
Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

So, at this moment, in verse 2, Earth is (at this moment already) a Water World, the scripture tells us!

A Water World.

And in 2017, the first hard evidence was found to support that Earth was once a Water World (!)....

So, today, the leading mainstream science view is just like the Genesis chapter 1 text: Earth was very long ago once a Water World.

Ancient Earth was a water world -- AAAS
The leading world views is nothing like genesis 1. That’s concordism
 
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Halbhh

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The leading world views is nothing like genesis 1. That’s concordism
Oh, you are guessing that I decided what I wanted to find/see and then tried to find it, to create an association I was aiming for ahead of time....

-- concordism --

Instead of that, here's how I learned this:

I was just reading random news, back in 2017, and to my surprise, I saw a headline about evidence early Earth was almost entirely a water world without any significant continents....

That was not something I expected, was not looking for, and was truly surprised to see...

I did not immediately think of Genesis chapter 1....but some time later I thought...

'wow....can it be??'....

Because it is evidence of what we read in Genesis 1.

1-earthwasbarr.jpg


Scientists at The Australian National University (ANU) say the early Earth was likely to be barren, flat and almost entirely under water...
https://phys.org/news/2017-05-earth-barren-flat-billion-years.html
 
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Ragdoll

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That would be plausible (or could be though on the other hand the nature of gravity is that it will pull a large mass into a roughly spherical shape), but we can't accept any idea that doesn't agree with the clear wording in the text, if you notice the rest of the verse(!) --
Genesis 1:2 Now the earth was formless and void, and darkness was over the surface of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters.

So, at this moment, in verse 2, Earth is (at this moment already) a Water World, the scripture tells us!

A Water World.

And in 2017, the first hard evidence was found to support that Earth was once a Water World (!)....

So, today, the leading mainstream science view is just like the Genesis chapter 1 text: Earth was very long ago once a Water World.

Ancient Earth was a water world -- AAAS

Correct. The earth in Gen.1:2 was nothing but a water world. But it did not have shape. It was without form, shapeless, void of anything we identify as a spherical planet. It was more like a bubble in a lava lamp in verses 1 and 2.

Gravity existed in verse 2, but there was no sun or moon. So there was no gravitational pull on the earth from the moon. So what gravity did during this time is hard to determine. Though the earth's core would have churned and as it churned the earth would also begin to turn. The earth turns as clay to the seal.
 
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Halbhh

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So what gravity did during this time is hard to determine
Well, in observation we see gravity behaving with total consistency everywhere, perfectly, without ever one exception, even in the high precision Einstein added in General Relativity, which astronomers and physicists have used in searches over and over trying hard to find even a tiny discrepancy anywhere and it's always been perfectly consistent.

They try hard to find an exception, because any would be a huge breakthrough moment, and be historical.
 
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SkovandOfMitzae

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Oh, you are guessing that I decided what I wanted to find/see and then tried to find it, to create an association I was aiming for ahead of time....

-- concordism --

Instead of that, here's how I learned this:

I was just reading random news, back in 2017, and to my surprise, I saw a headline about evidence early Earth was almost entirely a water world without any significant continents....

That was not something I expected, was not looking for, and was truly surprised to see...

I did not immediately think of Genesis chapter 1....but some time later I thought...

'wow....can it be??'....

Because it is evidence of what we read in Genesis 1.

1-earthwasbarr.jpg


Scientists at The Australian National University (ANU) say the early Earth was likely to be barren, flat and almost entirely under water...
https://phys.org/news/2017-05-earth-barren-flat-billion-years.html

Sure. The world has went through many faces in the last several billion years. Concordism is also seeing scientific revelations in something not scientific.

Genesis 1 for example mentions this formless and void watery world existing prior to sunlight or starlight and many other things. The image being painted is very different. That’s also just from genesis 1. Genesis 2 paints a different picture. John Walton really digs into it.

The biblical story being told is also linking the formless and void world to chaos. That’s why the “ great sea creatures “ in genesis 1 is Tiamat a Leviathan. It’s why psalms 74 brings it up and why revelation mentions a restored heaven and earth without a sea. It’s all hyperlinking back genesis.
 
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Ragdoll

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Well, in observation we see gravity behaving with total consistency everywhere, perfectly, without ever one exception, even in the high precision Einstein added in General Relativity, which astronomers and physicists have used in searches over and over trying hard to find even a tiny discrepancy anywhere and it's always been perfectly consistent.

They try hard to find an exception, because any would be a huge breakthrough moment, and be historical.

I agree with you. My point is that we cannot determine how gravity reacted to the fetal earth in the first 3 Days of creation. I don't deny there was gravity by any means. But physicists today study gravity on an earth that has a sun and moon. The earth in the first three days of creation didn't have that. So, speaking for myself, I cannot know the general effects that gravity had on the earth. We know that the gravitational pull of the moon greatly effects the earth's rotation by slowing down the earth's spin. How fast the earth rotating in the first three days, however, cannot be determined. At least I cannot determine that. But I do not deny gravity existed and had some effect on the earth. I just don't know what effect it had? If you know the answer to this please feel free to share it with me.
 
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Halbhh

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Sure. The world has went through many faces in the last several billion years. Concordism is also seeing scientific revelations in something not scientific.

Genesis 1 for example mentions this formless and void watery world existing prior to sunlight or starlight and many other things. The image being painted is very different. That’s also just from genesis 1. Genesis 2 paints a different picture. John Walton really digs into it.

The biblical story being told is also linking the formless and void world to chaos. That’s why the “ great sea creatures “ in genesis 1 is Tiamat a Leviathan. It’s why psalms 74 brings it up and why revelation mentions a restored heaven and earth without a sea. It’s all hyperlinking back genesis.
'condordism' doesn't fit this.

It's just fact the Earth was a water world.

It was already fact, just because it's in Genesis 1. (don't you agree!?)

And now mainstream science knows it also.... It's found a bit of what God created.

Also, just to mention more interesting side details (not key, but interesting to some of us), the sun moon and stars first became visible in the vision, as if standing on the surface of the Earth looking up into the sky on day 4, perhaps on the first clear day (clear skies). (The sun itself is already giving day and night to the rotating Earth on day 1 we can notice also)

Recently in modeling early Earth's climate, researches found the model showed the early Earth had constant cloudiness for a long time. 24/7/365 clouds that obscured the stars and moon and sun for a very lengthy time.

Isaac Newton was on the right track on that -- he pointed this out long ago. I hadn't realized that Newton figured that one out already, when it suddenly came to me also, but it's easy to see once you just read the chapter without preconception, and in the context of the entire bible, so that you are aware God uses visions to communicate (e.g. 1 Sam 3:1) , and of course (obviously) Moses was not there during creation, so would only be able to see the visual aspects as a vision. (revelation/vision/dream, along with God's words) So, just like in Peter's vision in Acts 10 we aren't told everything, just like Peter was not told everything. But instead, we are told something key, if we listen. It's repeated 7 times actually.
 
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Halbhh

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I agree with you. My point is that we cannot determine how gravity reacted to the fetal earth in the first 3 Days of creation. I don't deny there was gravity by any means. But physicists today study gravity on an earth that has a sun and moon. The earth in the first three days of creation didn't have that. So, speaking for myself, I cannot know the general effects that gravity had on the earth. We know that the gravitational pull of the moon greatly effects the earth's rotation by slowing down the earth's spin. How fast the earth rotating in the first three days, however, cannot be determined. At least I cannot determine that. But I do not deny gravity existed and had some effect on the earth. I just don't know what effect it had? If you know the answer to this please feel free to share it with me.
'Gravity' is intrinsic to matter. So, when matter exists, gravity does. While it's possible to speculate that God created this physics (where all matter has gravity) later in time after the Universe, it would be...very odd, and not seem to make sense, since our Universe is very literally/visibly operating by physics. In a very real way, this Universe is this physics we have. They are the same thing. We'd not have a cause (it just wouldn't make sense in a way) to imagine God would make this Universe without the physics we know, or rather, to be exact, with a different physics, first, and then later on change it to this physics. (e.g. -- Why would He be unable to make it with this physics initially?, etc.)
 
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SkovandOfMitzae

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'condordism' doesn't fit this.

It's just fact the Earth was a water world.

It was already fact, just because it's in Genesis 1. (don't you agree!?)

And now mainstream science knows it also.... It's found a bit of what God created.

Also, just to mention more interesting side details (not key, but interesting to some of us), the sun moon and stars first became visible in the vision, as if standing on the surface of the Earth looking up into the sky on day 4, perhaps on the first clear day (clear skies). (The sun itself is already giving day and night to the rotating Earth on day 1 we can notice also)

Recently in modeling early Earth's climate, researches found the model showed the early Earth had constant cloudiness for a long time. 24/7/365 clouds that obscured the stars and moon and sun for a very lengthy time.

Isaac Newton was on the right track on that -- he pointed this out long ago. I hadn't realized that Newton figured that one out already, when it suddenly came to me also, but it's easy to see once you just read the chapter without preconception, and in the context of the entire bible, so that you are aware God uses visions to communicate (e.g. 1 Sam 3:1) , and of course (obviously) Moses was not there during creation, so would only be able to see the visual aspects as a vision. (revelation/vision/dream, along with God's words) So, just like in Peter's vision in Acts 10 we aren't told everything, just like Peter was not told everything. But instead, we are told something key, if we listen. It's repeated 7 times actually.

im very familiar with biblical concordism and biblical accommodation concerning science and history within scriptural narratives. The comments are without a doubt casebook examples of a concordistic paradigm.

Just because the Bible makes a statement does not mean that statement is accurate or supposed to be taken literally.’

For example the Bible teaches all virgins bleed upon intercourse. But that’s not true.

The Bible teaches that the world is a flat disc shaped earth and that’s not true.

So the Bible is here to teach us theological truths. Not science. Not history.
 
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Halbhh

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im very familiar with biblical concordism and biblical accommodation concerning science and history within scriptural narratives. The comments are without a doubt casebook examples of a concordistic paradigm.

Just because the Bible makes a statement does not mean that statement is accurate or supposed to be taken literally.’

For example the Bible teaches all virgins bleed upon intercourse. But that’s not true.

The Bible teaches that the world is a flat disc shaped earth and that’s not true.

So the Bible is here to teach us theological truths. Not science. Not history.

Ah, I see you are using some guesses about what I think that are very unalike anything I think. :) Oh well. Have a good afternoon.
 
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SkovandOfMitzae

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Ah, I see you are using some guesses about what I think that are very unalike anything I think. :) Oh well. Have a good afternoon.

im not making any guesses. I’m going off of what was said and providing other examples to make it easier for those confused over concordism to understand it. I’m also responding to questions.
 
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Ragdoll

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'Gravity' is intrinsic to matter. So, when matter exists, gravity does. While it's possible to speculate that God created this physics (where all matter has gravity) later in time after the Universe, it would be...very odd, and not seem to make sense, since our Universe is very literally/visibly operating by physics. In a very real way, this Universe is this physics we have. They are the same thing. We'd not have a cause (it just wouldn't make sense in a way) to imagine God would make this Universe without the physics we know, or rather, to be exact, with a different physics, first, and then later on change it to this physics. (e.g. -- Why would He be unable to make it with this physics initially?, etc.)

I agree with you 100%. However, you are still missing my point. The universes for the first three days did not have any stars and our solar-system no sun or moon. I most definitely agree with every word you said, as I also believe God is the Author of physics. I agree that gravity existed and came into existence in Gen.1:1. I do not argue that.

When we look at the universe today we see it in it's completed state from Day 4 onward. What I don't understand is the relation gravity had on the earth for the first three Days of creation? I am not saying that there was no gravity. I believe there was. But what was the relation gravity had on the earth and how did it effect the earth's rotation? I do not know the answer to this. But I'm not gonna sweat it either.

God created everything in very intelligent stages. He did not change the physics as He went. He created the laws of physics as He went on creating from one Day to the next. God didn't create our solar system until Day 4. He only created the solar system so the earth would be able to sustain life without God's direct presence involved. He created the natural order. But this order was created in stages as we read in the Genesis account.
 
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Halbhh

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I agree with you 100%. However, you are still missing my point. The universes for the first three days did not have any stars and our solar-system no sun or moon. I most definitely agree with every word you said, as I also believe God is the Author of physics. I agree that gravity existed and came into existence in Gen.1:1. I do not argue that.

When we look at the universe today we see it in it's completed state from Day 4 onward. What I don't understand is the relation gravity had on the earth for the first three Days of creation? I am not saying that there was no gravity. I believe there was. But what was the relation gravity had on the earth and how did it effect the earth's rotation? I do not know the answer to this. But I'm not gonna sweat it either.

God created everything in very intelligent stages. He did not change the physics as He went. He created the laws of physics as He went on creating from one Day to the next. God didn't create our solar system until Day 4. He only created the solar system so the earth would be able to sustain life without God's direct presence involved. He created the natural order. But this order was created in stages as we read in the Genesis account.

If it were the case that the stars didn't come into existence until day 4, then that would be correct, yes, but instead I think what happened is like part of what Isaac Newton thought (as quoted below), and in part this is from noticing the normal day/night cycle of Earth began in day 1, but that's not the only reason.
-->The stars, sun and moon became visible on day 4 in the vision is what fits the best of all to all the various parts put together. So on day 4 the sun which already existed was now finally directly visible due to a first-time clear sky so that they could be seen from the perspective of being on the surface of the Earth. (with clouds you get day/night cycle, without seeing the sun that is causing the day/night cycle as the Earth rotates) Previous to day 4 they were not shown in the vision, which would be from the perspective of being on the Earth (not up in space), but the sun, moon and stars did already exist it seems from verse 1, in which the entire Universe comes into existence (in verse 1)... But you might like this:
Here's how Newton worded it:

(Bolding added)


Sir Isaac Newton (1642-1727)

Pg 450 of that book we find:
( from a letter written by Newton to Thomas Burnet in January 1680.):

(by 'vulgar' Newton seems to mean simply the typical notions of the common people, who are not scientists nor very mathematically inclined, etc.)

"As to Moses, I do not think his description of ye creation either philosophical or feigned, but that he described realities in a language artificially adapted to ye sense of ye vulgar. Thus when he speaks of two great lights, I suppose he means their apparent not real greatness. So when he tells us God placed these lights in ye firmament, he speaks I suppose of their apparent not real place, his business being not to correct the vulgar notions in matters philosophical, but to adapt a description of the creation as handsomely as he could to ye sense and capacity of ye vulgar. So when he tells us of two great lights, and ye stars made ye 4th day, I do not think their creation from beginning to end was done the 4th day, nor in any one day of ye creation, nor that Moses mentions their creation, as they were physicall bodies in themselves, some of them greater than the earth, and perhaps habitable worlds, but only as they were lights to this earth, so therefore though their creation could not physically [be] assigned to any one day, yet being a part of ye sensible creation which it was Moses’s design to describe, and it being his design to describe things in order according to the succession of days, allotting no more than one day to one thing, they were to be referred to some day or other, and rather to the 4th day than any other, if they [the] air then first became clear enough for them to shine thro’ it, and so put ye appearance of lights in ye firmament to enlighten the earth…”
Isaac Newton on the Mosaic Account of Creation

Since Newton famously wrote many religious tracks, and is such a towering figure in the modern age of science, he's a fun example to look to out of curiosity to learn what he thought.

From the article on Isaac Newton's faith:

Newton’s Faith
For Newton the world of science was by no means the whole of life. He spent more time on theology than on science; indeed, he wrote about 1.3 million words on biblical subjects. Yet this vast legacy lay hidden from public view for two centuries until the auction of his nonscientific writings in 1936.

Newton’s understanding of God came primarily from the Bible, which he studied for days and weeks at a time. He took special interest in miracles and prophecy, calculating dates of Old Testament books and analyzing their texts to discover their authorship. In a manuscript on rules for interpreting prophecy, Newton noted the similar goals of the scientist and the prophecy expositor: simplicity and unity. He condemned the “folly of interpreters who foretell times and things by prophecy,” since the purpose of prophecy was to demonstrate God’s providence in ...
The Faith Behind the Famous: Isaac Newton

Newton is perhaps the single most towering figure in the early key steps to the establishment of modern science. And a very strong believer.
 
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Ragdoll

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'condordism' doesn't fit this.

It's just fact the Earth was a water world.

Correct. This water world had no distinct shape in Genesis 1:1-2. It was birthed in a dark universe with no star light.

' Also, just to mention more interesting side details (not key, but interesting to some of us), the sun moon and stars first became visible in the vision, as if standing on the surface of the Earth looking up into the sky on day 4, perhaps on the first clear day (clear skies). (The sun itself is already giving day and night to the rotating Earth on day 1 we can notice also)

If this were true then Day 4 of Genesis would not have been mentioned. For if the sun and moon were created on Day 1, then it was unnecessary to say God created the sun, moon and stars on Day 4. But Day 4 is it's own Day of creation, just as Day 5 & 6 were.

The problem is that humans are hardwired to see a universe in its completed state of creation. When people read Gen.1:3, they visualize a light source outside of the earth and never even think of looking inside the earth. The rotation of the earth began with the core. The earth's rotation was the beginning of the day-night cycle which would not reach fruition until Day 4 - and on Day 4 we see God continuing the "separation of light and darkness" (which is the earth's rotation and solar system completed on Day 4

In the first 3 Days, God was there so no finite source of light was necessary since God is Eternal Life and His Presence is Life. Though people tend to forget that God created a finite world that was created in stages.

Had God created the sun before the earth then the earth would have been vaporized by the sun. But God isn't no fool. He created the light - the earth's core - and by the end of Day 3 the magnetic field was very strong. This is when God created the rest of the solar-system.

Evolutionists have drilled it into our minds that the sun is first. They believe that the early earth has become a water world with early life forms evolving without a strong magnetic field. They believe the core did not solidify until 500-million years ago. But this is scientifically impossible since everything from water to early life forms would have been vaporized by the sun. In 2020, after this point threated to destroy evolution theory, evolutionists quickly threw down some rhetoric and just said the magnetic field was super-duper strong from the start. This is how evolutionists cover up scientific errors. They just throw some rhetoric together as patchwork, making-it-all-up-as-they-go.
 
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Halbhh

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If this were true then Day 4 of Genesis would not have been mentioned.
Ah, remember what God said was the reason for the sun, moon and stars?

:)

Consider: He could have just created us and Earth under a blank grey dome, without any special beautiful heavens above...and we would still face the need to turn to God in faith and repent, for salvation....

But He did not choose a blank grey sky.

And helpfully we read precisely why that is. (notice that 2nd half of verse 14 as being one piece: that time passes (in mortal life which is limited in time), and we can notice it even if we would not pay attention much to years passing otherwise)

I will stop here for now, since that's a major thing by itself, and I've got duties right now. :) have a good afternoon


 
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Ragdoll

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If it were the case that the stars didn't come into existence until day 4, then that would be correct, yes, but instead I think what happened is like part of what Isaac Newton thought (as quoted below), and in part this is from noticing the normal day/night cycle of Earth began in day 1, but that's not the only reason.
-->The stars, sun and moon became visible on day 4 in the vision is what fits the best of all to all the various parts put together. So on day 4 the sun which already existed was now finally directly visible due to a first-time clear sky so that they could be seen from the perspective of being on the surface of the Earth. (with clouds you get day/night cycle, without seeing the sun that is causing the day/night cycle as the Earth rotates) Previous to day 4 they were not shown in the vision, which would be from the perspective of being on the Earth (not up in space), but the sun, moon and stars did already exist it seems from verse 1, in which the entire Universe comes into existence (in verse 1)... But you might like this:
Here's how Newton worded it:

(Bolding added)


Sir Isaac Newton (1642-1727)

Pg 450 of that book we find:
( from a letter written by Newton to Thomas Burnet in January 1680.):

(by 'vulgar' Newton seems to mean simply the typical notions of the common people, who are not scientists nor very mathematically inclined, etc.)

"As to Moses, I do not think his description of ye creation either philosophical or feigned, but that he described realities in a language artificially adapted to ye sense of ye vulgar. Thus when he speaks of two great lights, I suppose he means their apparent not real greatness. So when he tells us God placed these lights in ye firmament, he speaks I suppose of their apparent not real place, his business being not to correct the vulgar notions in matters philosophical, but to adapt a description of the creation as handsomely as he could to ye sense and capacity of ye vulgar. So when he tells us of two great lights, and ye stars made ye 4th day, I do not think their creation from beginning to end was done the 4th day, nor in any one day of ye creation, nor that Moses mentions their creation, as they were physicall bodies in themselves, some of them greater than the earth, and perhaps habitable worlds, but only as they were lights to this earth, so therefore though their creation could not physically [be] assigned to any one day, yet being a part of ye sensible creation which it was Moses’s design to describe, and it being his design to describe things in order according to the succession of days, allotting no more than one day to one thing, they were to be referred to some day or other, and rather to the 4th day than any other, if they [the] air then first became clear enough for them to shine thro’ it, and so put ye appearance of lights in ye firmament to enlighten the earth…”
Isaac Newton on the Mosaic Account of Creation

Since Newton famously wrote many religious tracks, and is such a towering figure in the modern age of science, he's a fun example to look to out of curiosity to learn what he thought.

From the article on Isaac Newton's faith:

Newton’s Faith
For Newton the world of science was by no means the whole of life. He spent more time on theology than on science; indeed, he wrote about 1.3 million words on biblical subjects. Yet this vast legacy lay hidden from public view for two centuries until the auction of his nonscientific writings in 1936.

Newton’s understanding of God came primarily from the Bible, which he studied for days and weeks at a time. He took special interest in miracles and prophecy, calculating dates of Old Testament books and analyzing their texts to discover their authorship. In a manuscript on rules for interpreting prophecy, Newton noted the similar goals of the scientist and the prophecy expositor: simplicity and unity. He condemned the “folly of interpreters who foretell times and things by prophecy,” since the purpose of prophecy was to demonstrate God’s providence in ...
The Faith Behind the Famous: Isaac Newton

Newton is perhaps the single most towering figure in the early key steps to the establishment of modern science. And a very strong believer.

Oh believe me, I know all about Newton's views. I have many of his books, even his books on theology and chronology. But he did commit himself to some error in his thinking. He was nothing like the early Church fathers in terms of theology. His knowledge of science and his ability to understand chronology of the world was fantastic!

I know this view and used to consider it as a strong possibility. So this view is not new to me. Even today, many creationists hold to the same view you do. But I believe it deviates from the actual Genesis account. Could it be true? I suppose it could be. So I am in no position to say for absolute certain that this view on creation isn't true. However, it does contradict the order of creation and makes Day 4 an oddity among the 6 Days of creation. Day 1, Day 2, Day 3, Day 5, Day 6 are all literal. But then they say Day 4 was not literal but it really happened on Day 1. So why, then, didn't God just say He created the sun, moon and stars on Day 1?

I respect Newton. I respect modern science. But I also see where science has put some people into a state of confusion when it comes to creation. I see no need for such confusion. God created the natural order in very intelligent stages so that the earth would be inhabited. God placed more importance on the magnetic field over the importance of the sun because an earth without a magnetic field will be destroyed by the radiation from the sun before it has a chance to sustain life. So God created things in intelligent stages, not allowing for any silliness to take place. But modern man seems to be fixated on silliness which is why they just have to believe the sun came before the earth or both at the same time. But this is not how God designed the solar-system.

We cannot always agree with each other about all the details. You will not go to hell if you don't agree with me. Though your view on this - a view held by many - does not harmonize. It's more of an unnecessary compromise. I personally place more trust in God than I do scientists. I believe God knows more about created planetary systems than scientists do.
 
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Ragdoll

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Ah, remember what God said was the reason for the sun, moon and stars?

:)

Yes, so we would know the seasons, years and days of the earth. But He still created the sun on Day 4.

Consider: He could have just created us and Earth under a blank grey dome, without any special beautiful heavens above...and we would still face the need to turn to God in faith and repent, for salvation....

But He did not choose a blank grey sky.


I supposed that is true that we would still need God for salvation no matter how He decided to create the earth. Though I'm not sure where you are getting a blank grey sky from?

I will stop here for now, since that's a major thing by itself, and I've got duties right now. :) have a good afternoon

Same here. I got plenty of things to do today on my day off. So have a good one and talk to you whenever there is time ;)
 
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Ragdoll

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The Bible teaches that the world is a flat disc shaped earth and that’s not true.

So the Bible is here to teach us theological truths. Not science. Not history.

(signs). The Bible is how we arrived to the modern era of science. Who do you think those scientists were that founded and established modern science? Were they all atheists? Nope. They were all Biblical creationists. So the knowledge of God led mankind to modern science. The Bible is true history, moreso than any other document in the world.

There are over 68 globe earth verses in the Bible. The early Church, from 1st century Clement of Rome on up, all read globe earth from the Bible. There is simply no evidence anywhere that the Bible teaches flat earth. That flat earth allegation is something atheists have tried to use over the decades to discredit the Bible. Even now that the flat earth movement is dead, atheists continue with flat earth allegations.
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SkovandOfMitzae

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There are tons and tons of issues with trying to fit the natural history of the earth and universe, and our species , into a week long event through concordistic lenses such as a literalist, or gap , reading of genesis 1.

1. Before the creation of the stars or sun, it mentions the earth was already here and that it was for less and void. It was chaotic. It mentions it was this watery universe. Not just the earth, because the dome that was created in the story was to separate the two waters. Yet before heat or light as created by celestial bodies the water was not frozen. That’s illogical.

So we have to ask ourselves why does it mention all of this talk of a watery universe and a watery earth separated by a dome (firmament). That’s because that’s what ancient Mesopotamians believed. Not just the Jewish people but the Canaanites as well. Why? Well before the creation of planes, satellites and understanding how the prism worked ancient people knew that water fell from the sky, they never seen the water float back up , and so they presumed a endless amount of water was in the sky. But what prevented the water from falling and covering the earth? They did not understand clouds. They assumed divine beings rode on clouds and opened up special holes into the dome to leak water inside. That’s why they prayed to gods for rain because they believed their gods controlled the flow of water.

we even see this cloud rider theme with Jesus when it says he floated away into the clouds. He did not literally fly to heaven. Heaven is not this physical world above the clouds. We would have seen it with a spaceship, satellite or even climbing Everest.

2. The order of life forms don’t match the fossil record within the superimposed geological layers. For example it mentions fruit trees being created at the same time as the other trees. But fruit trees come from angiosperms. Angiosperms evolved rather recently. They evolved even after sharks. First it was things like club moss and then ferns and other spore bearing plants which then became gymnosperms and lastly flowering plants ( angiosperms ). It mentions birds and fish created on the same day before land animals. That’s also illogical. Not only does it confuse things like ostriches and penguins that can’t fly but birds evolved after dinosaurs. Birds are relatively new species. Even reptiles were around first. Birds evolved around 65mya. The Archaeopteryx evolved around 150mya ( mya = million years ago ). Mammals even shows up first at around 180mya. Insects also begin prior to angiosperms. Butterflies for example evolved after flowers. Beetles were the pollinators first. So when we look at the fossil record there are things we see and things we don’t see. Such as we don’t actually see any humans ( including footprints ) showing up among the earliest primates and we definitely don’t see them at the same time as dinosaurs. We don’t see a single dinosaur fossil with human weaponry damages.

There are also things in the biblical account we don’t see in the fossil record period. For example, genesis mentions the creation of the “ great sea creatures “ and in Hebrew that’s the word “ Taninim “ which refers to a giant multiheaded fire breathing chaos being. ( see Job 40/41, Psalms 74 ).

The third thing we should tease apart is the symbolism. Why does the creation account begin with a chaotic watery world? Why are there these giant sea monsters? Are there any other biblical clues? There is in revelation. In revelation we read of these sea monsters with horns and a flying dragon. We also read of the sea giving up its dead and we even read of the new earth having no sea. That’s all because in the Hebrew world the sea was associated with chaos. Even in Hebrew the names are associated. That’s also why we see the beginnings of baptism being hyperlinked throughout the narratives.

Baptism is being immersed in water through submergence and resurfacing. It’s tied to the death , burial and resurrection of Jesus. just like the land rose up out of the dark void waters. Just like Eden was this paradise popping up out four great rivers. Just like Noah was brought safely through the waters on Ark and baby Moses was brought safely through the waters in a reeds basket and the Israelites were brought safely through the sea. In the same way, Christ brings us safely through baptism.

Genesis 1 is very poetic. It’s genre is most closely related to mythology. Contextual analysis does not indicate a historical, scientific or biographical reading.
 
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