Evolution debunked. Again.

[BPPLEE]

Yay for another creation news site - they would get a nobel if they could prove anything that they claim. Which they of course can't.

Anyway, since they were talking about eagle eyes how come eagles get better eyes than we do ? The crown of creation. Seems odd.

All animals have greater senses. A dog can smell things with infinitely less odor than you can. Man was given other characteristics to ensure his survival

 

[BPPLEE]

It is really not quite that simple. Why should other people believe you especially when scientific evidence says otherwise.

List of creation myths - Wikipedia

A creation myth (or creation story) is a cultural, religious or traditional myth which describes the earliest beginnings of the present world. Creation myths are the most common form of myth, usually developing first in oral traditions, and are found throughout human culture. A creation myth is usually regarded by those who subscribe to it as conveying profound truths, though not necessarily in a historical or literal sense.

Using Wikipedia to refute the creation story is not going to get you many points

 

[Homeowner]

Using Wikipedia to refute the creation story is not going to get you many points

I don't refute any creation story. They all have equal evidence behind them after all. It would hardly be fair to single out anything particular.

Here is another great flood myth by Sumerians.

The beginning of the tablet is lost, but the surviving portion begins by recounting how the gods An, Enlil, Enki, and Ninhursanga created the Sumerians and comfortable conditions for the animals to live and procreate. Kingship then descends from heaven, and the first cities are founded: Eridu, Bad-tibira, Larak, Sippar, and Shuruppak.

After a missing section, we learn that the gods have decided not to save mankind from an impending flood. Zi-ud-sura, the king and gudug priest, learns of this. In the later Akkadian version recorded in the Atra-Hasis Epic, Ea (Sumerian Enki), the god of the waters, warns the hero (Akkadian Atrahasis) and gives him instructions for building an ark. This is missing in the Sumerian fragment, but a mention of Enki taking counsel with himself suggests similar instructions in the Sumerian version.

Some similarities to other flood myths emerge....anyway topic of evolution

Humans and chimpanzees share 99% of the same DNA. This is the 1% difference - Genetic Literacy Project

Humans and chimps are genetically almost identical. Why would that be the case if we are a created masterwork among animals ?

 

[BPPLEE]

I don't refute any creation story. They all have equal evidence behind them after all. It would hardly be fair to single out anything particular.

Thanks for the clarification

 

[Job 33:6]

What is stupid is that evolution vs creationism shouldn't even be debated. The Bible says the Earth and universe were created in six days and that should clench it. Thanks to the gospels we know how many generations have existed since the time of Adam to Jesus. Take those generations and add roughly 2,000 years since Christ was born and died and you've got how old the Earth and universe was then. Especially when Adam was created on day 6.


The problem is Christians that hold onto evolution either don't believe the Bible is correct or that it doesn't fully mean what it says. I'm sorry, something written by God cannot ever be wrong or with error. Otherwise we're calling God a liar and that's dangerous territory i don't want to get involved in.

Genesis also says that there was a solid dome with stars in it that held up water with windows that would open and close to let water through.

But we of course don't view this as being a literal scientific truth.

And God said, “Let there be a vaulted dome in the midst of the waters, and let it cause a separation between the waters.”
Genesis 1:6 LEB

So God made the vaulted dome, and he caused a separation between the waters which were under the vaulted dome and between the waters which were over the vaulted dome. And it was so.
Genesis 1:7 LEB

And God called the vaulted dome “heaven.” And there was evening, and there was morning, a second day.
Genesis 1:8 LEB


And God said, “Let there be lights in the vaulted dome of heaven to separate day from night, and let them be as signs and for appointed times, and for days and years,
Genesis 1:14 LEB

In the six hundredth year of the life of Noah, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month—on that day all the springs of the great deep were split open, and the windows of heaven were opened.
Genesis 7:11 LEB

In the six hundredth year of the life of Noah, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month—on that day all the springs of the great deep were split open, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the waters prevailed overwhelmingly upon the earth, and they covered all the high mountains which were under the entire heaven.
Genesis 7:11‭, ‬19 LEB

And the fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, and the rain from the heavens was restrained. And the waters receded from the earth gradually, and the waters abated at the end of one hundred and fifty days.
Genesis 8:2‭-‬3 LEB

What Does the Bible Say About Firmament?

with him can you spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?
Job 37:18 LEB

Praise him, highest heavens, and waters above the heavens.
Psalms 148:4 LEB

He is the one who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; the one who stretches out the heavens like a veil and spreads them out like a tent to live in,
Isaiah 40:22 LEB

who builds his upper chambers in the heavens and lays the foundation of his vault on the earth, who calls for the waters of the sea and pours them on the surface of the earth—Yahweh is his name.
Amos 9:6 LEB

Thick clouds are a covering for him, so that he does not see; and he walks about on the dome of heaven.’
Job 22:14 LEB

And they saw the God of Israel, and what was under his feet was like sapphire tile work and like the very heavens for clearness.
Exodus 24:10 LEB

Now the likeness above the heads of the living creatures was an expanse like the outward appearance of awesome ice spread out above their heads upward.
Ezekiel 1:22 LEB

And there was a sound from above the expanse that was above their heads, and when they stood they lowered their wings.
Ezekiel 1:25 LEB

“The pillars of heaven tremble, and they are astounded at his rebuke.
Job 26:11 LEB


And from above the expanse that was above their heads there was the likeness of a throne, looking like a sapphire, and above the likeness of the throne was a likeness similar to the appearance of a human on it, but above it.
Ezekiel 1:26 LEB

 

[BPPLEE]

Genesis also says that there was a solid dome with stars in it that held up water with windows that would open and close to let water through.

But we of course don't view this as being a literal scientific truth.

The cosmology of the flat earth holds that a dome covers a circular, flat earth, with its edge resting on the earth beyond the ice wall of Antarctica. The stars are affixed to this dome, while the sun and moon are above the earth but beneath the dome. Some have called this a snow-globe cosmology, because of its resemblance to a snow-globe. Supposedly, this is the cosmology that the Bible teaches. Ironically, skeptics make the same argument, but their intent is to discredit the Bible. Few flat-earthers appear to be aware of this fact or the irony. Let us examine the Scriptures that supposedly support this cosmology.

Key in this discussion is the firmament. The Hebrew word rāqîa‘ is translated as firmament in the King James Version. It appears a total of 17 times in the Old Testament, with over half of the occurrences (nine times) in chapter 1 of Genesis alone. The word is a noun that derives from the Hebrew root rq‘, meaning to stamp out.4 An example of this action is to stamp or pound a metal into thin sheets. This is a common practice with gold, because gold is so malleable. Gilding is the process of attaching gold leaf to objects, giving the impression that the objects are pure gold. For instance, the Ark of the Covenant was gilded with gold leaf over acacia wood (Exodus 25:10–11). Gold leaf can be pounded or rolled so thin that bright light can be seen through it. From the meaning of this word, we can deduce that the rāqîa‘ is something that has been pounded or stretched out.

From the meaning of this word, we can deduce that the rāqîa‘ is something that has been pounded or stretched out.
Unfortunately, some people reason that since this is an action frequently done to a metal, the thing being stretched out must have some physical property common with metals. Metals often are hard, so, according to this reasoning, the rāqîa‘ must be hard. This certainly is the sense of the archaic English word firmament, which has a common root with the word firm. However, is this the intended meaning? Not all metals are hard; and gold, which is involved in the best example illustrating the Hebrew root from which the Hebrew noun rāqîa‘ comes, definitely is not hard. Therefore, it is questionable if the rāqîa‘ is something that is hard. It is more likely that the intended meaning of rāqîa‘ is related to the process of stamping out, not a physical property of the thing subjected to the process. The process has the effect of spreading out a substance, or possibly making the substance thin. This is why many more modern translations of the Bible render rāqîa‘ as expanse rather than firmament.

The first use of the word rāqîa‘ in the Bible probably is helpful in deciphering its meaning. This is found in Genesis 1:6, the beginning of the Day Two creation account. The Day Two creation account begins with God’s declaration that there be a rāqîa‘ to divide the waters from the waters. The next verse tells us that God made the rāqîa‘ and divided the waters that were below the rāqîa‘ from the waters that were above the rāqîa‘. Thus, the word rāqîa‘ appears three times in this verse. Before declaring an end to Day Two in Genesis 1:8, God called the rāqîa‘ “heaven.” Therefore, the Hebrew word rāqîa‘ appears five times in the Day Two account.

There are several observations that we can make from this passage. First, the waters that God divided were the waters mentioned in Genesis 1:2. It is clear that the waters that God separated below must refer to surface water (mostly oceans) on the earth. But what are the waters above the rāqîa‘? How we answer that question will depend upon what we understand the rāqîa‘ is. Notice that God equated the rāqîa‘ with heaven. The Hebrew word šāmayim is translated as “heaven” most of the more than 400 times it occurs in the Old Testament, as it is here.

Interpreting Scripture in terms of Scripture, we find reinforcement of the equation of the rāqîa‘ with heaven. At least eleven verses in the Old Testament speak of God stretching out the heavens (Job 9:8; Psalm 104:2; Isaiah 40:22; 42:5; 44:24; 45:12; 48:13; 51:13; Jerimiah 10:12; 51:15; Zechariah 12:1). On Day Two, God made the rāqîa‘, something that is spread or stretched out. Furthermore, God called the rāqîa‘ heaven. The stretching of the heavens probably refers to when God made the rāqîa‘.

Heaven generally is understood as being above us. Depending on the context, the word can refer to that which is immediately above us, where flying birds, clouds, and rain are. It also can refer to the realm of astronomical bodies. Finally, it often refers to the abode of God. “Heaven” has all these meanings, both in modern use and in the Bible. Does the rāqîa‘ refer to all of these meanings, or just some of those meanings?

The other appearances of the word rāqîa‘ in the Genesis 1 creation account can help in answering this question. The next use of the word rāqîa‘ is in the Day Four account of creation (Genesis 1:14–19), where it appears three times. Each time it appears in conjunction with the Hebrew word šāmayim. The best way to express this relationship in English is with the prepositional phrase, “expanse of heaven.” This construction emphasizes, lest there be any doubt, that the thing mentioned in the Day Four account is the thing that God made on Day Two. In Genesis 1:14, God commanded that there be lights in the firmament of heaven. Genesis 1:15 expands the command that they be for lights in the firmament of heaven. Genesis 1:17–18 states that God made the lights and set them in the firmament of heaven. It is clear here that the lights are the heavenly bodies, the greater and lesser lights, and the stars also (Genesis 1:16). Therefore, the firmament of heaven (the rāqîa‘) is where God placed the heavenly, or astronomical, bodies. Today we would call this outer space, or simply space.

 

[Job 33:6]

Genesis also says that there was a solid dome with stars in it that held up water with windows that would open and close to let water through.

But we of course don't view this as being a literal scientific truth.

And God said, “Let there be a vaulted dome in the midst of the waters, and let it cause a separation between the waters.”
Genesis 1:6 LEB

So God made the vaulted dome, and he caused a separation between the waters which were under the vaulted dome and between the waters which were over the vaulted dome. And it was so.
Genesis 1:7 LEB

And God called the vaulted dome “heaven.” And there was evening, and there was morning, a second day.
Genesis 1:8 LEB


And God said, “Let there be lights in the vaulted dome of heaven to separate day from night, and let them be as signs and for appointed times, and for days and years,
Genesis 1:14 LEB

In the six hundredth year of the life of Noah, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month—on that day all the springs of the great deep were split open, and the windows of heaven were opened.
Genesis 7:11 LEB

In the six hundredth year of the life of Noah, in the second month, on the seventeenth day of the month—on that day all the springs of the great deep were split open, and the windows of heaven were opened. And the waters prevailed overwhelmingly upon the earth, and they covered all the high mountains which were under the entire heaven.
Genesis 7:11‭, ‬19 LEB

And the fountains of the deep and the windows of the heavens were closed, and the rain from the heavens was restrained. And the waters receded from the earth gradually, and the waters abated at the end of one hundred and fifty days.
Genesis 8:2‭-‬3 LEB

What Does the Bible Say About Firmament?

with him can you spread out the skies, hard as a molten mirror?
Job 37:18 LEB

Praise him, highest heavens, and waters above the heavens.
Psalms 148:4 LEB

He is the one who sits above the circle of the earth, and its inhabitants are like grasshoppers; the one who stretches out the heavens like a veil and spreads them out like a tent to live in,
Isaiah 40:22 LEB

who builds his upper chambers in the heavens and lays the foundation of his vault on the earth, who calls for the waters of the sea and pours them on the surface of the earth—Yahweh is his name.
Amos 9:6 LEB

Thick clouds are a covering for him, so that he does not see; and he walks about on the dome of heaven.’
Job 22:14 LEB

And they saw the God of Israel, and what was under his feet was like sapphire tile work and like the very heavens for clearness.
Exodus 24:10 LEB

Now the likeness above the heads of the living creatures was an expanse like the outward appearance of awesome ice spread out above their heads upward.
Ezekiel 1:22 LEB

And there was a sound from above the expanse that was above their heads, and when they stood they lowered their wings.
Ezekiel 1:25 LEB

“The pillars of heaven tremble, and they are astounded at his rebuke.
Job 26:11 LEB


And from above the expanse that was above their heads there was the likeness of a throne, looking like a sapphire, and above the likeness of the throne was a likeness similar to the appearance of a human on it, but above it.
Ezekiel 1:26 LEB

The raqia cannot be properly translated as "sky" because the stars are placed in it, birds flew across the face of it (not in it), and things were seen and heard above it. It was also described like ice, like sapphire, like a stone path, and like molten metal at various places throughout scripture, all being words that suggest a solid nature. Plus it has windows in it that opened and closed during the noachian flood. So it simply cannot be properly translated as sky. And for much of the same reasons, it cannot be deep space either, given that people saw and heard things above it, and that it has windows in it in which water passes through, lest we believe these windows were black holes transporting water from extra-dimensional galaxies across millions of light-years of space.

The only way to effectively translate the above listed verses, is to view scripture in light of ancient pre-scientific cosmology, much like the images depicted below including Egyptian cosmological imagery as well.

And for these reasons, we know that Genesis was not describing a scientifically literal 6 day creation. It may be true or literal in other ways, but Genesis is not describing something that could be scientifically measured to be literally true.

Drops the mic*

 

[The Barbarian]

evolution vs creation

is the same as satan vs GOD

Assuming that creation is of Satan is a basic error. Evolution is merely an observed natural phenomenon. It has no bearing whatever on one's salvation, unless one makes an idol of one's opinion of it.

 

[BPPLEE]

Assuming that creation is of Satan is a basic error. Evolution is merely an observed natural phenomenon. It has no bearing whatever on one's salvation, unless one makes an idol of one's opinion of it.

I tend to agree salvation is based on other things and not what

Assuming that creation is of Satan is a basic error. Evolution is merely an observed natural phenomenon. It has no bearing whatever on one's salvation, unless one makes an idol of one's opinion of it.

I tend to agree with you that what one believes about creation has nothing to do with salvation. I don't know how you address some things such as original sin.

 

[The Barbarian]

I tend to agree salvation is based on other things and not what

I tend to agree with you that what one believes about creation has nothing to do with salvation. I don't know how you address some things such as original sin.

There is no conflict between science and two original ancestors of all living humans. I believe that Adam and Eve were actual people who were the first two given living souls directly by God. And I believe that their disobedience was the original sin.

 

[Sorn]

There is no conflict between science and two original ancestors of all living humans. I believe that Adam and Eve were actual people who were the first two given living souls directly by God. And I believe that their disobedience was the original sin.

That's one of the issues with evolution, when did people 'get' souls. The thing about what you have outline is that the parents of Adam & Eve would have been practically indistinguishable from A&E, whatever evolutionary difference was there in A&E to their parents would require a microscopic scientific study to find and highlight. Presumably it would have been a difference in the brain as that would be the most likely place a difference would mean God would then say, "right, the 1st true people".

So for the sake of some tiny, tiny change A&E get souls but not their parents or siblings etc????

 

[The Barbarian]

That's one of the issues with evolution, when did people 'get' souls. The thing about what you have outline is that the parents of Adam & Eve would have been practically indistinguishable from A&E, whatever evolutionary difference was there in A&E to their parents would require a microscopic scientific study to find and highlight. Presumably it would have been a difference in the brain as that would be the most likely place a difference would mean God would then say, "right, the 1st true people".

So for the sake of some tiny, tiny change A&E get souls but not their parents or siblings etc????

Well, that's the issue, isn't it? We do know that it's not a physical phenomenon or genetic change, since God says that He gives a living soul directly to each of us.

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

 

[BPPLEE]

Well, that's the issue, isn't it? We do know that it's not a physical phenomenon or genetic change, since God says that He gives a living soul directly to each of us.

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the slime of the earth: and breathed into his face the breath of life, and man became a living soul.

I have respect for your views and for those who disagree. I don't know how God made man I just knew that he did

 

[Original Happy Camper]

There is no conflict between science and two original ancestors of all living humans. I believe that Adam and Eve were actual people who were the first two given living souls directly by God. And I believe that their disobedience was the original sin.

to believe that we evolved from slim is totally oppisite of the teaching of the bible.

Thus a denial of Jesus Christ as the creator.

If you deny Jesus you are denying your salvation through the shedding of his blood for you on the cross at Calvary

 

[BPPLEE]

to believe that we evolved from slim is totally oppisite of the teaching of the bible.

Thus a denial of Jesus Christ as the creator.

If you deny Jesus you are denying your salvation through the shedding of his blood for you on the cross at Calvary

I used to think so too but what you believe about creation really has nothing to do with salvation. He didn't deny that Jesus did it he just says he did it a different way. Attacking someone's beliefs will not win them over. I think it's time to admit they are Christians too. But I won't speak for him he does a good job on his own.

 

[The Barbarian]

to believe that we evolved from slim is totally oppisite of the teaching of the bible.

This Slim?

Or this Slim?

Well, it's certainly not Biblical. However, as even knowledgeable creationists admit, there is "very good evidence" that we evolved from other apes. Would you like to see that?

Thus a denial of Jesus Christ as the creator.

It always seems to me, to be disrespectful and arrogant to deny God as Creator, if He didn't create things the "right way." That amounts to one making an idol of one's own wishes, regardless of God's will.

If you deny Jesus you are denying your salvation through the shedding of his blood for you on the cross at Calvary

Fact is, most creationists are good and sincere Christians, no less than the rest of us. And most of them will readily admit that one's view of evolution has nothing to do with salvation, citing scripture and Jesus' words on this.

Might be useful for you to review those verses again.

 

[Original Happy Camper]

This Slim?

Or this Slim?

Well, it's certainly not Biblical. However, as even knowledgeable creationists admit, there is "very good evidence" that we evolved from other apes. Would you like to see that?



It always seems to me, to be disrespectful and arrogant to deny God as Creator, if He didn't create things the "right way." That amounts to one making an idol of one's own wishes, regardless of God's will.



Fact is, most creationists are good and sincere Christians, no less than the rest of us. And most of them will readily admit that one's view of evolution has nothing to do with salvation, citing scripture and Jesus' words on this.

Might be useful for you to review those verses again.

Matthew 7:13-14
King James Version

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[The Barbarian]

13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

I don't believe that creationists necessarily lose their salvation. That verse does not have anything to do with one's opinion of evolution.

 

[loveofourlord]

What is stupid is that evolution vs creationism shouldn't even be debated. The Bible says the Earth and universe were created in six days and that should clench it. Thanks to the gospels we know how many generations have existed since the time of Adam to Jesus. Take those generations and add roughly 2,000 years since Christ was born and died and you've got how old the Earth and universe was then. Especially when Adam was created on day 6.


The problem is Christians that hold onto evolution either don't believe the Bible is correct or that it doesn't fully mean what it says. I'm sorry, something written by God cannot ever be wrong or with error. Otherwise we're calling God a liar and that's dangerous territory i don't want to get involved in.

Or we just actually understand the science behind evolution and realize that it has to be true based on all the evidence and refuse to ignore reality.

 

[Psalm 27]

I just read Mark 13:19.
Jesus said that the creation was created by God (Jesus is God. John 1:1-3)
Christians must believe this, because Jesus The Christ said it. Otherwise, they're not a Christian.

The theory of evolution is a lie