Did Christ at the cross end all the laws?

[Akita Suggagaki]

May I chime in with my mere opinion. The OT laws were part of the OT Mosaic covenant. Jesus initiated the New Covenant which we celebrate this very day and the Last Supper. The New Covenant cleanses us from sin in the blood of Christ but that does not mean we are free to do whatever we want. The New Commandment, "love one another", becomes the guiding principle right along with the example of Jesus to serve one another.

Love, always was and always will be the true fulfillment of OT law. Jesus is the personification of that love.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

May I chime in with my mere opinion. The OT laws were part of the OT Mosaic covenant. Jesus initiated the New Covenant which we celebrate this very day and the Last Supper. The New Covenant cleanses us from sin in the blood of Christ but that does not mean we are free to do whatever we want. The New Commandment, "love one another", becomes the guiding principle right along with the example of Jesus to serve one another.

Love, always was and always will be the true fulfillment of OT law. Jesus is the personification of that love.

Love one another is not a New Commandment, Jesus quoted it from the law of Moses. Deuteronomy 6:5 Leviticus 19:18 Unlike what is being taught that all the Old Testament laws ended, God seems to say otherwise. Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10. For me we should follow God's instructions and commands since He knows what is best for us as we are part of His creation.

I agree, Jesus is love and how we show love to Him according to scripture is by keeping His commandments John 14:15 , which He repeated. Exodus 20:6 and John teaches the same 1 John 5:3. God bless

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Love one another is not a New Commandment, Jesus quoted it from the law of Moses. Deuteronomy 6:5 Leviticus 19:18 Unlike what is being taught that all the Old Testament laws ended, God seems to say otherwise. Jeremiah 31:33, Hebrews 8:10. For me we should follow God's instructions and commands since He knows what is best for us as we are part of His creation.

I agree, Jesus is love and how we show love to Him according to scripture is by keeping His commandments John 14:15 , which He repeated. Exodus 20:6 and John teaches the same 1 John 5:3. God bless

So was Jesus lying in John?
13.34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.


The is the problem with quoting scripture. We can go back and forth all day finding things that support divergent views. Scripture is written for our inspiration, especially the NT should not be used as a legal textbook.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Don't know about the power, only the command.

The command was from Jesus, the leper were healed once they obeyed the command, not by the priest.

 

[Leaf473]

I don’t see the question regarding the lepers. Are you referring to the ten lepers? Luke 17:11-19 If so, maybe you can explain why and what you think it means and the implications you think it means that ended at the cross and then I will comment on what I think this scriptures means.

Here is the question from earlier:

As we talked about above, Jesus told a leper to go to the priest and present an offering. Does the offering for a cleansed leper also point to Jesus' sacrifice for sin?

I was thinking of the passage at the beginning of Matthew 8.

Here's how it relates:
When people want to show that some laws didn't end at the cross, they sometimes talk about Jesus quoting some of the ten commandments to the Rich Young ruler.

Jesus does tell the ruler to follow some of the ten commandments, but he also tells the leper to show himself to the priest and take an offering.

The Matthew passage is important because it specifies "Offer the gift that Moses commanded".

Did the offering for a cleansed leper end at the cross? If so, then Jesus told people to do some things which later ended at the cross.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

The command was from Jesus, the leper were healed once they obeyed the command, not by the priest.

I don't think so. The obeyed the command to show themselves and make the offering only after they were already healed by Jesus. Right?

 

[Leaf473]

Or we could follow God’s Word as the scriptures tells us, including which set of laws ended and pointed to Christ. Hebrews 10, 1 Cor 7:19, Colossians 2:14 We have free will though and can choose Option B. Follow yourself which scriptures warns us. Proverbs 3:5-6 Option C Follow the church which most have replaced God’s commandments with traditions, that Jesus warned us Matthew 15:3-9. I choose Option A. Follow God’s Word as it is a lamp to our feet. Psalms 119:105

I agree, follow God's word.

Now... Does God's word have 66 books or 73? Who gets to decide, each of us individually, or a group?

It relates to the thread topic in that whoever gets to decide what is in the Bible could possibly have some input into how the Bible is interpreted.
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So based on the scriptures you gave in your post, it sounds like just sacrifices, offerings, and circumcision ended at the cross.

Is that what you're saying? If so, I think that would leave over 400 laws still in place. Just estimating there.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

So was Jesus lying in John?
13.34 A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; even as I have loved you, that you also love one another.


The is the problem with quoting scripture. We can go back and forth all day finding things that support divergent views. Scripture is written for our inspiration, especially the NT should not be used as a legal textbook.

Of course Jesus is not lying. It's like Hebrews 8:10, its more of a renewed covenant than a new one. The laws are the same, but they have been renewed based on better promises.

I disagree regarding the Bible as being a legal textbook, it is our guide to being connected to Jesus so we can be prepared for His coming. We are will be tested and if we don't have the owner manual from God, we may be misled, which scripture gives us plenty of warnings about.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I don't think so. The obeyed the command to show themselves and make the offering only after they were already healed by Jesus. Right?

Luke 17:11 Now it happened as He went to Jerusalem that He passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee. 12 Then as He entered a certain village, there met Him ten men who were lepers, who stood afar off. 13 And they lifted up their voices and said, “Jesus, Master, have mercy on us!”

14 So when He saw them, He said to them, “Go, show yourselves to the priests.” And so it was that as they went, they were cleansed.

There is nothing saying that the priest healed them. It was only after they obeyed God's command they were healed. Lots of lessons to be learned from this passage, like we need to take the first step in order for God to bless us. For example if we want to quit smoking and pray to God to cleanse us from this sin, the first step after paying is throwing away the cigarettes.

 

[Leaf473]

Letters from which laws? Are you referring from the Ten? If so, does that mean we can worship other gods, bow to idols, murder, steal, lie etc. Are you referring to these letters that we don’t have to keep from the Ten or others. Maybe you can clarify.

Thanks

The letters from the laws that didn't end at the cross.

Those remaining laws, I believe you say that we are to follow them to the letter.

So I'm asking you to post the letters of those laws. If it's too many to do all at once, you could just start with a few.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

I agree, follow God's word.

Now... Does God's word have 66 books or 73? Who gets to decide, each of us individually, or a group?

It relates to the thread topic in that whoever gets to decide what is in the Bible could possibly have some input into how the Bible is interpreted.
_____________

So based on the scriptures you gave in your post, it sounds like just sacrifices, offerings, and circumcision ended at the cross.

Is that what you're saying? If so, I think that would leave over 400 laws still in place. Just estimating there.

This is where we will disagree. I don't place power into churches or people. The power is God and the scriptures are from God .2 Timothy 3:16. I also don't believe what is being taught about "who gave us" the bible. I believe God is in control of His Word. There were death threats to some of the reformers for trying to get God's Word out to the public, many going in hiding, but the Word prevailed, so I don't believe what has been handed down is accurate. When you start placing the power of a church over the power of God, I think this can be dangerous territory.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Of course Jesus is not lying. It's like Hebrews 8:10, its more of a renewed covenant than a new one. The laws are the same, but they have been renewed based on better promises.

I disagree regarding the Bible as being a legal textbook, it is our guide to being connected to Jesus so we can be prepared for His coming. We are will be tested and if we don't have the owner manual from God, we may be misled, which scripture gives us plenty of warnings about.

Now it is you who are changing scripture.
"This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. ~ Luke 22:19-20

"New" not "renewed".

 

[SabbathBlessings]

The letters from the laws that didn't end at the cross.

Those remaining laws, I believe you say that we are to follow them to the letter.

So I asked you to post the letters of those laws. If it's too many to do all at once, you could just start with a few.

How did it go from me asking you to explain which laws your referring to, to asking me the same question I answered more than once, again? You made a statement that you think all the laws ended with Christ- so I asked some questions about that like can you now worship other gods, vain God's holy name, steal, murder etc. but I didn't get an answer, just more questions that have been answered quite a few times with scripture.

This is probably all I have time for at the moment.

God bless.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Now it is you who are changing scripture.
"This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood. ~ Luke 22:19-20

"New" not "renewed".

Same covenant from Hebrew 8:10. We are in the new covenant which was ratified with Christ on the cross. We are either part of this covenant and part of the promise, which includes God's laws, or we are not part of the covenant.

 

[Akita Suggagaki]

Luke 17:11 Now it happened as He went to Jerusalem that He passed through the midst of Samaria and Galilee. 12 Then as He entered a certain village, there met Him ten men who were lepers, who stood afar off. 13 And they lifted up their voices and said, “Jesus, Master, have mercy on us!”

14 So when He saw them, He said to them, “Go, show yourselves to the priests.” And so it was that as they went, they were cleansed.

There is nothing saying that the priest healed them. It was only after they obeyed God's command they were healed. Lots of lessons to be learned from this passage, like we need to take the first step in order for God to bless us. For example if we want to quit smoking and pray to God to cleanse us from this sin, the first step after paying is throwing away the cigarettes.

Very good, you are right. In this instant they first followed his instruction.

But the point was they were following his instruction to fulfill Mosaic Law requirements.
Do people cleanses of leprocy now need to do that as well?

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Very good, you are right. In this instant they first followed his instruction.

But the point was they were following his instruction to fulfill Mosaic Law requirements.
Do people cleanses of leprocy now need to do that as well?

Jesus is our Hight Priest in the New Covenant and we can go directly to Him for the forgiveness of sin. This verse doesn't saying anything about the laws ending. Only the blood of Jesus is perfect and has the power to forgive when we have a changed heart and repent.

I need to get on with my day. God bless!

 

[expos4ever]

Letters from which laws? Are you referring from the Ten? If so, does that mean we can worship other gods, bow to idols, murder, steal, lie etc.

Please stop misrepresenting other posters. You have to know that none of us are saying this.

 

[Leaf473]

So in your view who is Jeremiah 31:33 Hebrews 8:10 written to? Doesn’t sound like these scriptures fit in either category that you have created. Are you saying there is a third category?

Well, the categories that I use in that post are in the context of our discussion with @Guojing.

I'm interested in how they work in his/her mind and how they relate to what laws ended at the cross.
_____________

At the beginning of Jeremiah, where God calls him, he is appointed as a prophet to the Nations.

So the overall answer is that the book of Jeremiah was written to the Nations. Hey, that's us!

In the particular passage where Jeremiah talks about the New Covenant, the subject is the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Those are the people that the New Covenant is made with.

Book of Hebrews doesn't say to whom it is written, probably to believing Jews.

The New Covenant started at that Passover just before Jesus' crucifixion, imo. "This is the New Covenant in my blood." Since that time, everyone who calls on the name of the Lord is grafted into that New Covenant.

So we also, as believers in Jesus, also have God's law written in our hearts.

 

[SabbathBlessings]

Well, the categories that I use in that post are in the context of our discussion with @Guojing.

I'm interested in how they work in his/her mind and how they relate to what laws ended at the cross.
_____________

At the beginning of Jeremiah, where God calls him, he is appointed as a prophet to the Nations.

So the overall answer is that the book of Jeremiah was written to the Nations. Hey, that's us!

In the particular passage where Jeremiah talks about the New Covenant, the subject is the house of Israel and the house of Judah. Those are the people that the New Covenant is made with.

Book of Hebrews doesn't say to whom it is written, probably to believing Jews.

The New Covenant started at that Passover just before Jesus' crucifixion, imo. "This is the New Covenant in my blood." Since that time, everyone who calls on the name of the Lord is grafted into that New Covenant.

So we also, as believers in Jesus, also have God's law written in our hearts.

So Jesus is not your Mediator, nor your High Priest for the forgiveness of sins? I guess only a very tiny part of scripture is written for you and that is the Passover, nothing else, is this what you're saying? So no one knows the New Covenant, it wasn't the example that Jesus left, we are to follow something that no one knows? And we can ignore the great commission that Jesus told the disciples to teach others what He taught, while He came as our example and as the Sacrifice for our sins as our High Priest?

We do have free will, but this thinking is missing out on so much of God's New Covenant promise, that Jesus ratified with His blood. I think many do not understand the New Covenant and it probably has to do with "the laws" that it seems some people will do anything to make scripture say, the laws don't apply to me, only other people, or there are no laws (despite clear scripture stating otherwise) even if that means deleting scriptures. I am sure Jesus will have a lot to say about this as predicted Matthew 7:21-23 but I guess it hard to accept these warnings, if one thinks the scriptures don't apply to them. God bless friend, looks like we will continue to agree to disagree.

 

[Leaf473]

This is where we will disagree. I don't place power into churches or people. The power is God and the scriptures are from God .2 Timothy 3:16. I also don't believe what is being taught about "who gave us" the bible. I believe God is in control of His Word. There were death threats to some of the reformers for trying to get God's Word out to the public, many going in hiding, but the Word prevailed, so I don't believe what has been handed down is accurate. When you start placing the power of a church over the power of God, I think this can be dangerous territory.

That's fine. Do you believe, then, that each person is responsible for deciding which books are in the Bible just as they are responsible for reading the Bible themselves and deciding which laws ended at the cross?