Russian media attitudes towards war on Ukraine (Orthodox-related)

[prodromos]

Heck, even I said the Russians are in the wrong, and yet the virulent anti-Russians assume that I said Russia is in the right

I was stunned when I read that person's comment. Being Lent, I felt the best I could do was to make the sign of the cross and pray "Lord have mercy".

 

[rusmeister]

It is pretty interesting narrative that NATO moving eastwards "goads" Russia. I am sure it does. Nobody likes having armed forces of opposite side on your border. That never bothered Russia for putting it's forces anywhere it liked whatever anyone felt upset about it. Even worse Russia uses it's troops for naked aggression.

Nobody joins NATO for fun of it. Baltic States joined NATO because they understood what an existential threat Russia was to them after being occupied for decades and illegally annexed before that. Same for Poland. Now probably very soon Finland and Sweden as well.

Russia's paranoia of people attacking it through European plain is absurd. Nobody is going to attack Russia. Russia has the most extensive stockpile of nukes and of course biological and chemical weapons (whatever they might lie about those in public), brainwashed citizenry that is easily roused for fanatical resistance on any attack on fatherland so there is zero reason democratic nations would mass suicide by staking Operation Barbarossa 2.0 and this constant justification for butchering other people on name of security concerns is despicable, unChristian, craven, useless and counter productive.

Russia is making it's own bed by being a bad neighbor and is now reaping the harvest.

I am not sure I could convince you of anything. The absolute inability to look at things from the Russian side is what strikes me the most. I have no trouble looking at it from both sides. I can see the concerns of people like the Finns, the Baltic states, and Eastern Europe maintaining worries about Russia because of the things done most especially by the USSR. But you cannot, analogously, see what could possibly concern the Russians, besides saying “nobody likes having armed forces of opposite side on your border” (sic). The USSR fell in 1991. That was the golden time to disband NATO altogether, or at least have a vastly reduced force funded exclusively by its European members of the time. That was when everybody was talking about the “peace dividend”. I remember.
But the real threat is not that the powers that be want to actually invade Russia - I agree, they don’t. What they DO want, and what some of you seem to utterly fail to see, is a permanent state of Cold War, and they have done EVERYTHING to restore Russia’s status as an enemy.

You obviously never saw or met the Russians of the 1990’s and 2000’s, who were EAGER to be accepted as part of a world community, only to see everything done to turn them back into enemies again. They watched the creep eastward of NATO, that didn’t feel threatening to you in the slightest, at a time when Russia was offering no threats anywhere. They watched as, time and again, they were denied full treatment as a part of Europe, and outside of the “G6”, “G7”, or “G(insert number here)”. They saw the oil companies in the 90’s seeking to fully exploit their resources, and export all of the profits. But that was no threat to you. I am fully aware of the Winter War of 1940, the invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia. But you clearly cannot see what the Russians have experienced the last 30 years, much of which I have experienced alongside them. What happened to Russians in the Ukraine gradually from 2005-present didn’t bother you in the least. I say that Russia is wrong now, but I, at least, understand where they are coming from, and cutting back on NATO and accepting Russia as part of Europe would have prevented all of this.

The wealthy group of men who became wealthy from the Cold War, or increased their wealth due to it, had an absolute stake in preventing any “peace dividend”, which was the loss of their profit and wealth. Thus they purchased so many of our politicians, and lobbied to conduct war in the name of America and “democracy” around the world. These “Forever Wars” are truly meant to last forever, and that has driven them to pit Ukraine against Russia as the next act in restoring a permanent state of Cold War. It’s truly ironic that your own words can be turned around: “That never bothered America for putting it's forces anywhere it liked whatever anyone felt upset about it. Even worse America uses its troops for naked aggression.” As long as you do not see that application of your own words to Iraq, Libya, Syria, and the rest, to say nothing of Afghanistan, there won’t be much that I could say to you. In that case, I am writing for the peanut gallery.

 

[Homeowner]

What happened to Russians in the Ukraine gradually from 2005-present didn’t bother you in the least. I say that Russia is wrong now, but I, at least, understand where they are coming from, and cutting back on NATO and accepting Russia as part of Europe would have prevented all of this.

So what did happen to Russians in Ukraine ? Some credible sources ? Probably nothing like what happened to Checzens under the same dear leader you have now ?

You say cutting back on NATO would have prevented all this. Which is pure conjecture on your part. You just wish it so. Looking at Russian strategic concerns the annexation of Baltic Republics once more would look like more realistic option.

Did Russia in any point cut back their propaganda towards west ? Or was it the same old ; Russia is under threat, Nazis are coming, only strong leader Putin can save us, whatever Russia does is necessary for our very survival - spiritual and physical.

I can see the Russian side, but it gets old. If you wanted to have more civil freedoms like free speech or press and not worry about "Cold war" you could put them up. You are not interested.

Russia relies on propaganda, intimidation and physical force which makes you very unpleasant neighbor. Then crying about not being accepted is just hypocrisy. As long as Russia is autocratic dictatorship I do not see this changing.

 

[Homeowner]

Another thing with these need to understand where the aggressor comes from pleading.

Who in Russia when Wehrmacht was running over the Soviet Union in 1941 seriously had any sympathy of the unfair treatment of Germans after WW I with the treaty of Versailles dumbing all the blame on Germany and how it might have affected the upbringing of those young men killing Soviets in their millions ?

Has Russia ever in public made a note of that as a reason for being more lenient on their propaganda ? Have those German troops ever been any less bloodthirsty Nazis then during the WW II or in any decade after that ?

Answer should be obvious. It is the same thing here. Only this time Russians are the Nazis and sympathies are scarce indeed.

 

[Platina]

the unfair treatment of Germans after WW I with the treaty of Versailles dumbing all the blame on Germany

Wait, how do you know about this?

 

[Lukaris]

Not to be rude, but I don't really listen to what the archbishop says on anything. He tends to teeter on the edge of saying things outside of the faith. So, the fact that he's speaking on this isn't surprising. After all, he's under the Patriarch Bartholomew in Turkey, who overstepped his jurisdiction and powers in Ukraine a few years ago, and he and the Russian Patriarch's relationship has been strained since.

I agree it is understandable to be suspicious of both of these men. However, from what I gather, Bishop Elpidophoros displays a better understanding of the golden rule.

 

[Lukaris]

It's a big problem with Orthodoxy—the ethnic element. At my parish, the Serbs have never sinned in history. Perfect saints all. Same with Russians. Putin is a folk hero. Any disagreement with Putin puts you on the parish poop list. And accusations against Putin are “Western propaganda” immediately…..dismissed. You hear stuff like “Ukrainians sell their babies! They’re goff godless! They’re all Nazis!”

Yeah, I guess Uncle Joe ( Stalin) gets a pass just like during the holodomor. I believe Russian farmers also faced starvation & famine but Ukraine has always been the breadbasket.

Holodomor - Wikipedia

 

[Homeowner]

Wait, how do you know about this?

It is on public record.

Treaty of Versailles - Wikipedia

"Of the many provisions in the treaty, one of the most important and controversial was: "The Allied and Associated Governments affirm and Germany accepts the responsibility of Germany and her allies for causing all the loss and damage to which the Allied and Associated Governments and their nationals have been subjected as a consequence of the war imposed upon them by the aggression of Germany and her allies." The other members of the Central Powers signed treaties containing similar articles.

This article, Article 231, became known as the War Guilt clause. The treaty required Germany to disarm, make ample territorial concessions, and pay reparations to certain countries that had formed the Entente powers. In 1921 the total cost of these reparations was assessed at 132 billion gold marks (then $31.4 billion or £6.6 billion, roughly equivalent to US$442 billion or UK£284 billion in 2022).

Prominent economists such as John Maynard Keynes declared the treaty too harsh—a "Carthaginian peace"—and said the reparations were excessive and counter-productive. On the other hand, prominent Allied figures such as French Marshal Ferdinand Foch, criticized the treaty for treating Germany too leniently. This is still the subject of ongoing debate by historians and economists.

The result of these competing and sometimes conflicting goals among the victors was a compromise that left no one satisfied. In particular, Germany was neither pacified nor conciliated, nor was it permanently weakened."

 

[Nick1000]

Poor Russia. Always the victim. I am feeling lonely and isolated and can't go to McDonald's anymore and people just don't understand the complex Russian mind and our complex history and needs because we are the only country on earth that has history.

Meanwhile, Ukraine's economy has contracted 45% and headed toward zero in communities where genocide and rubble are taking its toll. And if they lived they are off feeling lonely and isolated in another country with their one shopping bag that has pictures of their former home and relatives who are still in the rubble.

The ruse about a fascist state like Russia policing their neighboring country to see who is a nazi and who isn't is just pure trance-state absurdity.

Putin has just assigned the two butchers/generals who leveled Aleppo to lead the campaign in the east, so that tells you all you need to know about what the near term looks like.

Stop the madness. Just stop it. Go home. Play stupid Peter the Great-Ivan the Terrible - Joseph Stalin games somewhere out in Siberia with other Russians and leave the civilized world alone.

 

[Dorothea]

It's fairly simple math. Who invaded whom? A massive military crosses into Ukraine and bombs them to smithereens. We know now that it's fairly obvious that the entire Ukrainian nation is NOT a bunch of Nazis. It is not up to Russia to decide if Ukraine lives up to their values or not anyway. We have more Nazis in Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi than the Ukraine, for corn's sake. Does that give Russia the right to invade us? Mexico has an extensive drug trade, it's a Narco state, tons of child-trafficking, prostitution, murder, and they regularly kill Americans on vacations there. Why don't we invade and just call them "immoral" and declare a "special operation" to purge the "bad guys."

Have you read what Russian state media is saying about their holy mission to "reprogram" the Ukrainians and dismantle their state, rebuild it in their own image? It's scary stuff. Putin is propping himself up in classic Hitler style with the grossdeutschland mentality. "Ukraine used to belong to use a millennia ago, and it's time to take it back!" This is really no different from "Greater Germany" and the sense of harkening back to old glory. We don't live in the 16th century. It's 2022. Ukraine is a sovereign nation. I don't agree with the Ukrainian Church stuff and Patriarch Bartholemew's meddling in Ukraine, but I also am not ok with Putin and Patriarch Kyrill licensing mass slaughter in the name of re-christening Ukraine and purging the "evil Western" influences.

I'm not happy with the LGBT stuff in the West, and I don't like a lot of our morals, but I don't much care for Russian morals either at this point. Child murder is immoral. Killing the elderly is immoral. Bombing a school is immoral. Raping girls and tying their hands behind their backs isn't moral. Plus, "Holy Russia" has a real abortion problem on its hands. Google the abortion rate in Russia. Check that out. And Google church attendance records. Not impressive.

Putin has a history of poisoning people who oppose him or outright locking them up. That's not moral. I'm tired of this defense of Russia nonsense simply because we don't like LGBT stuff. Putin uses these issues to brainwash the useful idiots. I refuse to bite.

To me, that's mostly Western propaganda. The poisoning was never proven from what I read. It's not about "Holy Russia". I look at historical events that lead up to such acts, and from what I've found, our government is usually the one instigating and provoking countries toward it. Kind of like what the FBI does with our own American citizens at times, like the Governor Whitmer kidnapping.

I listened to RT for the past several years, so if you want to consider that "Russian state media", you can. None of them talked about what you said. However, many good Americans had news shows on RT, that were bumped off Corporate, state-run US media, so I appreciated it.

As far as bad things happening in Russia, I believe it. Every country has these types of horrible events.

 

[Dorothea]

When soldiers don't invade your country and slaughter your villages, you won't have any "horrible things" happen to you. Problem solved. You march into a country and have a scorched earth policy where you bomb kids and the elderly and touch off chemical plants, blast old ladies on bicycles, indiscriminately kill civilians, be prepared to get a dose of your own medicine.

That's the story you're getting. From the independent journalists and commentators from Greece, UK, and America, say differently. If Russia wanted to totally destroy Ukraine, it would've done it immediately when they invaded. They were careful where it set its army. But the more Zelensky resists agreeing to being neutral (though he doesn't have a choice because the Nazis in his government said they'll hang him by the neck until he's dead if he doesn't keep his army fighting a losing battle. The Nazis don't care about every Ukrainian being killed. They have their own agenda for Ukraine) -- it's only going to hurt the Ukrainians. And our government and other Western governments continue to stoke the fire, although some seem to be backing down a bit in Europe for obvious reasons.

Maybe I should post alternative news, since there's only one side here, which makes for a lopsided and not fully balanced story.

 

[Dorothea]

Criticize a simplistic narrative, and you will be assumed to have adopted an OPPOSITE simplistic narrative. That's where we are.

Heck, even I said the Russians are in the wrong, and yet the virulent anti-Russians assume that I said Russia is in the right.

If one man goads another viciously to the point that the other man attacks his neighbor (a third party, who was becoming more and more friendly with the first man) and destroys his neighbor’s home and wrecks his life, certainly the second man is greatly in the wrong. But is the first man guiltless? That seems to be the most prevalent attitude here and in the West in general, that one need not think about what the first man did to help cause the tragedy, even though most agree that what the second man did was bad.

Spot on, Rus. And I find the US's (government/intel) stance on this and how they speak incredibly hypocritical, to say the least.

 

[Dorothea]

Poor Russia. Always the victim. I am feeling lonely and isolated and can't go to McDonald's anymore and people just don't understand the complex Russian mind and our complex history and needs because we are the only country on earth that has history.

Meanwhile, Ukraine's economy has contracted 45% and headed toward zero in communities where genocide and rubble are taking its toll. And if they lived they are off feeling lonely and isolated in another country with their one shopping bag that has pictures of their former home and relatives who are still in the rubble.

The ruse about a fascist state like Russia policing their neighboring country to see who is a nazi and who isn't is just pure trance-state absurdity.

Putin has just assigned the two butchers/generals who leveled Aleppo to lead the campaign in the east, so that tells you all you need to know about what the near term looks like.

Stop the madness. Just stop it. Go home. Play stupid Peter the Great-Ivan the Terrible - Joseph Stalin games somewhere out in Siberia with other Russians and leave the civilized world alone.

I see you're still following the lies from Syria when it was proven opposite of what was going on there. I guess you didn't hear about at least 2-3 OPCW whistleblowers with videoed evidence of the false flag chemical attack. It didn't come from the Syrian government but from the terrorists in the area (Al Qaeda, El Nusra, etc.) who got the weapons from Turkish soldiers. It's sad to see some people blinded by Corporate media reports that are owned by the Intel/Military Industrial Complex/Big Pharma.

 

[Dorothea]

I see you're still following the lies from Syria when it was proven opposite of what was going on there. I guess you didn't hear about at least 2-3 OPCW whistleblowers with videoed evidence of the false flag chemical attack. It didn't come from the Syrian government but from the terrorists in the area (Al Qaeda, El Nusra, etc.) who got the weapons from Turkish soldiers. It's sad to see some people blinded by Corporate media reports that are owned by the Intel/Military Industrial Complex/Big Pharma.

Of course, the four years and counting "Russiagate" lies that were debunked several times probably already conditioned people to believe it with already preconceived anti-Russian sentiments left over from the Cold War/USSR era, where people continued to call Russia and its government communist after the fall of the USSR in the early 1990s.

 

[Homeowner]

Maybe I should post alternative news, since there's only one side here, which makes for a lopsided and not fully balanced story.

I love how you call them alternative news and don't even bother calling them true or factual. Bit of Freudian slip ?

 

[Dorothea]

I am not sure I could convince you of anything. The absolute inability to look at things from the Russian side is what strikes me the most. I have no trouble looking at it from both sides. I can see the concerns of people like the Finns, the Baltic states, and Eastern Europe maintaining worries about Russia because of the things done most especially by the USSR. But you cannot, analogously, see what could possibly concern the Russians, besides saying “nobody likes having armed forces of opposite side on your border” (sic). The USSR fell in 1991. That was the golden time to disband NATO altogether, or at least have a vastly reduced force funded exclusively by its European members of the time. That was when everybody was talking about the “peace dividend”. I remember.
But the real threat is not that the powers that be want to actually invade Russia - I agree, they don’t. What they DO want, and what some of you seem to utterly fail to see, is a permanent state of Cold War, and they have done EVERYTHING to restore Russia’s status as an enemy.

You obviously never saw or met the Russians of the 1990’s and 2000’s, who were EAGER to be accepted as part of a world community, only to see everything done to turn them back into enemies again. They watched the creep eastward of NATO, that didn’t feel threatening to you in the slightest, at a time when Russia was offering no threats anywhere. They watched as, time and again, they were denied full treatment as a part of Europe, and outside of the “G6”, “G7”, or “G(insert number here)”. They saw the oil companies in the 90’s seeking to fully exploit their resources, and export all of the profits. But that was no threat to you. I am fully aware of the Winter War of 1940, the invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia. But you clearly cannot see what the Russians have experienced the last 30 years, much of which I have experienced alongside them. What happened to Russians in the Ukraine gradually from 2005-present didn’t bother you in the least. I say that Russia is wrong now, but I, at least, understand where they are coming from, and cutting back on NATO and accepting Russia as part of Europe would have prevented all of this.

The wealthy group of men who became wealthy from the Cold War, or increased their wealth due to it, had an absolute stake in preventing any “peace dividend”, which was the loss of their profit and wealth. Thus they purchased so many of our politicians, and lobbied to conduct war in the name of America and “democracy” around the world. These “Forever Wars” are truly meant to last forever, and that has driven them to pit Ukraine against Russia as the next act in restoring a permanent state of Cold War. It’s truly ironic that your own words can be turned around: “That never bothered America for putting it's forces anywhere it liked whatever anyone felt upset about it. Even worse America uses its troops for naked aggression.” As long as you do not see that application of your own words to Iraq, Libya, Syria, and the rest, to say nothing of Afghanistan, there won’t be much that I could say to you. In that case, I am writing for the peanut gallery.

Great post, Rus. And to the bolded, this is why those who are for dividing the Slavs (Ukrainians and Russians) are doing the bid of the antichrist, because he's always trying to divide Christ's people/Church. This is no exception. The spirit of the antichrist has been in our midst on this planet for decades now, imo.

 

[Dorothea]

I love how you call them alternative news and don't even bother calling them true or factual. Bit of Freudian slip ?

It is true or factual imo, but I was trying to be considerate of others, which seems to be missing from some here toward me who has a different opinion of the situation.

 

[Dorothea]

I agree it is understandable to be suspicious of both of these men. However, from what I gather, Bishop Elpidophoros displays a better understanding of the golden rule.

I'm not convinced, but that's just how I see him.

 

[Homeowner]

Great post, Rus. And to the bolded, this is why those who are for dividing the Slavs (Ukrainians and Russians) are doing the bid of the antichrist

Since Putin is doing this with his actions is he then doing the bidding of antichrist ?

 

[Nick1000]

I see you're still following the lies from Syria when it was proven opposite of what was going on there. I guess you didn't hear about at least 2-3 OPCW whistleblowers with videoed evidence of the false flag chemical attack. It didn't come from the Syrian government but from the terrorists in the area (Al Qaeda, El Nusra, etc.) who got the weapons from Turkish soldiers. It's sad to see some people blinded by Corporate media reports that are owned by the Intel/Military Industrial Complex/Big Pharma.

Maybe you can explain to the people in Mariupol that I am wrong when I say that when the Russians show up with their butcher generals that your city is about to look like Aleppo. For now, I am staying with that assertion.

‘God has left Mariupol’: diary entries chart horror of besieged city in Ukraine