Russian media attitudes towards war on Ukraine (Orthodox-related)

[Chesterton]

Really?

The countries considering joining can evaluate that based on their own observations.

You're right. They can go online and observe so many demolished Russian tanks and downed Russian aircraft that it's hard to keep count.

If they look at Ukraine for example- just to name one instance- and- like you- can see no example of Putin throwing his weight around, well they can arrive at that conclusion.

Your point is valid though, joining a collective defense arrangement is often easier on the psche and the country's budget than seeing their country reduced to a parking lot day by day. Again, those considering memebership have their own observations even though you see no examples. Odesa looks like Odesa today. Next month, it will look like Aleppo, just as Mariupol does. Not everyone is okay going that route. Nor do they look at it and think "gee, I don't see any example of Putin throwing his weight around. It's just all those Americans manipulating them."

Christians in Aleppo on 25 December 2016 celebrated Christmas for the first time ever in 5 years.

The Christian population in the city celebrated the holy festival under a giant Christmas tree. Many people described the Christmas celebrations as the return of peace in the city that came back under full government control in the third week of December 2016.​

 

[Chesterton]

Few people on this thread who show support for the unquestionably sinful, horrific, evil actions taken by the Russian Federation in Ukraine have shown much interested in the article linked in the OP, perhaps because it shows very clearly that the Russian narrative about this is delusional and unrelated to reality.

Not true. I showed interest. I've made two questions/comments in this thread about the article, and both were ignored. I later asked you a specific question about the article, and you never answered me.

 

[archer75]

Where did you find that this is its position?

I apologize for missing this question.

The piece is posted on state-controlled media that does not post anything antithetical to or unapproved by the state. Therefore, if an opinion piece is posted, it is approved by the state.

 

[Chesterton]

I apologize for missing this question.

The piece is posted on state-controlled media that does not post anything antithetical to or unapproved by the state. Therefore, if an opinion piece is posted, it is approved by the state.

You know what I asked. I didn't ask if a State website approved a propaganda piece. Obviously it did.

 

[archer75]

Further, @Chesterton, you can read here an English translation of a propaganda piece that was accidentally released by RIA in the early days of the war. Clearly prepared for publication by some functionary on the assumption that Kyiv would give up in three days and Russia would just present the takeover as a done deal.

The new world order - The Frontier Post

Of course, the propaganda line has changed since then, as we can see in the more recent piece linked to in the OP. Now they're all Nazis (or mostly) and the whole country needs to be under Russian control, lose statehood, Ukrainian identity has to be erased, the very idea of a Ukraine independent of Russia necessarily leads to Nazism.

 

[archer75]

Further, @Chesterton
Of course, the propaganda line has changed since then, as we can see in the more recent piece linked to in the OP. Now they're all Nazis (or mostly) and the whole country needs to be under Russian control, lose statehood, Ukrainian identity has to be erased, the very idea of a Ukraine independent of Russia necessarily leads to Nazism.

And I apologize for not having taken note of your replies to that article. I will try to go over the thread later and attend to anything that I appeared to ignore. That wasn't my intent.

 

[archer75]

You know what I asked. I didn't ask if a State website approved a propaganda piece. Obviously it did.

In contemporary Russia, there is no difference between these notions. What is pushed on a state site is the approved line of the state. If you like, I can post a summary of the remarks of the spokesperson for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs about the matter. Are you interested in that, or no?

 

[archer75]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but although this may have been posted on a State website, the fellow who wrote the article is a private citizen, and not a politician or policymaker? And the English translation notes it was translated by Ukrainian volunteers. I don't know Russian, perhaps someone else here could speak about its accuracy?

I know Russian, and it's a clear and accurate representation of what the original article says. [Edit: the English is a little unidiomatic at times, but I just re-read it and I don't think there are any parts where the author's English gets in the way of understanding. If there are, let me know and I can clarify based on the original text.]

The author, Timofey Sergeytsev, does seem officially to be a private citizen, as far as I can tell. According to the biographical information here, he has done various activities since he studied applied physics in the early 1980s (doesn't say whether he finished that degree and I don't know). He served as some kind of consultant to Viktor Yanukovich when Yanukovich ran for president of Ukraine in 2004.

 

[Lukaris]

I, for one, am not going to say anything critical of Patriarch Kirill.

Archbishop Elpidophoros Slams Russia's Orthodox Church on Ukraine

Good for Archbishop Elpidophoros and may Kyrill the shill retire.

 

[archer75]

Archbishop Elpidophoros Slams Russia's Orthodox Church on Ukraine

Good for Archbishop Elpidophoros and may Kyrill the shill retire.

I have seen no indication that His Holiness Patriarch Kirill is considering retiring; has there been an announcement about this or any other information?

 

[Lukaris]

I have seen no indication that His Holiness Patriarch Kirill is considering retiring; has there been an announcement about this or any other information?

I am only hoping and praying that he retire. Of course, who would replace him may not be an improvement either.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

It's a big problem with Orthodoxy—the ethnic element. At my parish, the Serbs have never sinned in history. Perfect saints all. Same with Russians. Putin is a folk hero. Any disagreement with Putin puts you on the parish poop list. And accusations against Putin are “Western propaganda” immediately…..dismissed. You hear stuff like “Ukrainians sell their babies! They’re goff godless! They’re all Nazis!”

I am only hoping and praying that he retire. Of course, who would replace him may not be an improvement either.

 

[Dorothea]

That is where the Azov battalion located their headquarters, using civilians as human shields.

And apparently members of the Nazi Azov Battalion did some horrible things to the Russian soldiers they captured a week or so ago.

 

[Dorothea]

Russia bombed a maternity hospital killing women and their unborn babies and newborn babies and babies actually being born at that moment all killed.

Killing busloads of children and bombing handicapped homes killing those people. Awful things. One woman watched her child get decapitated.

I read news from other countries, not just America. Why would the whole world lie on Putin?

"the whole world". Do you know that the "Western world" is only 10% of the population. And it appears that most of the world doesn't agree with the stories being put out by Western media hourly, daily.

And anytime I read these things reported, I'm immediately skeptical. In fact, anytime US state-run media or BBC or others in West report stories on Russia or other Eastern countries we consider "enemies", I highly doubt what they're saying is the complete truth.

To be more fair, we should recognize that both sides most likely have committed atrocities. This constant:

UKRAINE = ANGEL
RUSSIA = DEVIL

isn't real life and echos our screwed up culture of everyone having to be a hero or a villain. It's quite childish and petty and obviously not factual.

However, it is my opinion, all the reports I've been reading on here are as John (prodromos) said. Most of those heinous acts were done by the Nazi nationalist armies. People on the ground have reported on it. Do you follow Patrick Lancaster? He's on the ground there in Ukraine and there on those sites of bombings and horrible attacks. There are others too. Gonzalo Lira - person on the ground in Ukraine.

Wars are horrible and messy and atrocities happen, unfortunately, and also unfortunately, civilians are usually caught in the middle of it.

It would be nice if there were more balanced views in here on this. I am able to say I'm sure these horrible things are happening on both sides. From my personal view, I think more terrible attacks are from the Nazis than the Russians, judging from the independent reports I follow. But that is just my opinion. As I said, I can at least say I don't see Putin and the Russian army as white nights or angels and Zelensky and the portion of the regular Ukrainian army as devils. This isn't a super hero comic or cartoon.

 

[Dorothea]

Poll from a day ago. Of course, "None of the above" isn't a choice, which most everyone would've probably chosen. In any case, it's an interesting take that certainly doesn't mirror the views in here, it seems.

 

[Dorothea]

Archbishop Elpidophoros Slams Russia's Orthodox Church on Ukraine

Good for Archbishop Elpidophoros and may Kyrill the shill retire.

Not to be rude, but I don't really listen to what the archbishop says on anything. He tends to teeter on the edge of saying things outside of the faith. So, the fact that he's speaking on this isn't surprising. After all, he's under the Patriarch Bartholomew in Turkey, who overstepped his jurisdiction and powers in Ukraine a few years ago, and he and the Russian Patriarch's relationship has been strained since.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

When soldiers don't invade your country and slaughter your villages, you won't have any "horrible things" happen to you. Problem solved. You march into a country and have a scorched earth policy where you bomb kids and the elderly and touch off chemical plants, blast old ladies on bicycles, indiscriminately kill civilians, be prepared to get a dose of your own medicine.

And apparently members of the Nazi Azov Battalion did some horrible things to the Russian soldiers they captured a week or so ago.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

It's fairly simple math. Who invaded whom? A massive military crosses into Ukraine and bombs them to smithereens. We know now that it's fairly obvious that the entire Ukrainian nation is NOT a bunch of Nazis. It is not up to Russia to decide if Ukraine lives up to their values or not anyway. We have more Nazis in Georgia, Alabama, and Mississippi than the Ukraine, for corn's sake. Does that give Russia the right to invade us? Mexico has an extensive drug trade, it's a Narco state, tons of child-trafficking, prostitution, murder, and they regularly kill Americans on vacations there. Why don't we invade and just call them "immoral" and declare a "special operation" to purge the "bad guys."

Have you read what Russian state media is saying about their holy mission to "reprogram" the Ukrainians and dismantle their state, rebuild it in their own image? It's scary stuff. Putin is propping himself up in classic Hitler style with the grossdeutschland mentality. "Ukraine used to belong to use a millennia ago, and it's time to take it back!" This is really no different from "Greater Germany" and the sense of harkening back to old glory. We don't live in the 16th century. It's 2022. Ukraine is a sovereign nation. I don't agree with the Ukrainian Church stuff and Patriarch Bartholemew's meddling in Ukraine, but I also am not ok with Putin and Patriarch Kyrill licensing mass slaughter in the name of re-christening Ukraine and purging the "evil Western" influences.

I'm not happy with the LGBT stuff in the West, and I don't like a lot of our morals, but I don't much care for Russian morals either at this point. Child murder is immoral. Killing the elderly is immoral. Bombing a school is immoral. Raping girls and tying their hands behind their backs isn't moral. Plus, "Holy Russia" has a real abortion problem on its hands. Google the abortion rate in Russia. Check that out. And Google church attendance records. Not impressive.

Putin has a history of poisoning people who oppose him or outright locking them up. That's not moral. I'm tired of this defense of Russia nonsense simply because we don't like LGBT stuff. Putin uses these issues to brainwash the useful idiots. I refuse to bite.

"the whole world". Do you know that the "Western world" is only 10% of the population. And it appears that most of the world doesn't agree with the stories being put out by Western media hourly, daily.

And anytime I read these things reported, I'm immediately skeptical. In fact, anytime US state-run media or BBC or others in West report stories on Russia or other Eastern countries we consider "enemies", I highly doubt what they're saying is the complete truth.

To be more fair, we should recognize that both sides most likely have committed atrocities. This constant:

UKRAINE = ANGEL
RUSSIA = DEVIL

isn't real life and echos our screwed up culture of everyone having to be a hero or a villain. It's quite childish and petty and obviously not factual.

However, it is my opinion, all the reports I've been reading on here are as John (prodromos) said. Most of those heinous acts were done by the Nazi nationalist armies. People on the ground have reported on it. Do you follow Patrick Lancaster? He's on the ground there in Ukraine and there on those sites of bombings and horrible attacks. There are others too. Gonzalo Lira - person on the ground in Ukraine.

Wars are horrible and messy and atrocities happen, unfortunately, and also unfortunately, civilians are usually caught in the middle of it.

It would be nice if there were more balanced views in here on this. I am able to say I'm sure these horrible things are happening on both sides. From my personal view, I think more terrible attacks are from the Nazis than the Russians, judging from the independent reports I follow. But that is just my opinion. As I said, I can at least say I don't see Putin and the Russian army as white nights or angels and Zelensky and the portion of the regular Ukrainian army as devils. This isn't a super hero comic or cartoon.

 

[rusmeister]

Criticize a simplistic narrative, and you will be assumed to have adopted an OPPOSITE simplistic narrative. That's where we are.

Heck, even I said the Russians are in the wrong, and yet the virulent anti-Russians assume that I said Russia is in the right.

If one man goads another viciously to the point that the other man attacks his neighbor (a third party, who was becoming more and more friendly with the first man) and destroys his neighbor’s home and wrecks his life, certainly the second man is greatly in the wrong. But is the first man guiltless? That seems to be the most prevalent attitude here and in the West in general, that one need not think about what the first man did to help cause the tragedy, even though most agree that what the second man did was bad.

 

[Homeowner]

If one man goads another viciously to the point that the other man attacks his neighbor (a third party, who was becoming more and more friendly with the first man) and destroys his neighbor’s home and wrecks his life, certainly the second man is greatly in the wrong. But is the first man guiltless? That seems to be the most prevalent attitude here and in the West in general, that one need not think about what the first man did to help cause the tragedy, even though most agree that what the second man did was bad.

It is pretty interesting narrative that NATO moving eastwards "goads" Russia. I am sure it does. Nobody likes having armed forces of opposite side on your border. That never bothered Russia for putting it's forces anywhere it liked whatever anyone felt upset about it. Even worse Russia uses it's troops for naked aggression.

Nobody joins NATO for fun of it. Baltic States joined NATO because they understood what an existential threat Russia was to them after being occupied for decades and illegally annexed before that. Same for Poland. Now probably very soon Finland and Sweden as well.

Russia's paranoia of people attacking it through European plain is absurd. Nobody is going to attack Russia. Russia has the most extensive stockpile of nukes and of course biological and chemical weapons (whatever they might lie about those in public), brainwashed citizenry that is easily roused for fanatical resistance on any attack on fatherland so there is zero reason democratic nations would mass suicide by staking Operation Barbarossa 2.0 and this constant justification for butchering other people on name of security concerns is despicable, unChristian, craven, useless and counter productive.

Russia is making it's own bed by being a bad neighbor and is now reaping the harvest.